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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Angels and Archangels and ...
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
... everyone who dies and goes to heaven becomes an angel. ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore:
Possibly according to the New Church. Certainly not traditional Christian theology. Angels are a separate order of beings to humans there.
quote:
Originally posted by Mark in 12:25:
When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
Perhaps not quite there, but intriguing nevertheless.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
An Archangelic Prayer
A ninth century Irish prayer to the archangels. It includes several lesser known names among the archangels.
May Gabriel be with me on Sundays, and the power of the King of Heaven. May Gabriel be with me always that evil may not come to me, nor injury.
Michael on Monday I speak of, my mind is set on him,not with anyone do I compare him but with Jesus, Mary’s son.
If it be Tuesday, Raphael I mention, until the end comes, for my help. One of the seven whom I beseech, as long as I am on the field of the world.
May Uriel be with me on Wednesdays, the abbot with high nobility, against wound and against danger, against the sea of rough wind.
Sariel on Thursday I speak of, against the swift waves of the sea, against every evil that comes to us, against every disease that seizes us.
On the day of the second fast, Rumiel – a clear blessing – I have loved,I say only the truth, good the friend I have taken.
May Panchel be with me on Saturdays, as long as I am in the yellow-coloured world.
May sweet Mary , together with her friend, deliver me from strangers.
May the Trinity protect me!
May the Trinity defend me!
May the Trinity save me from every hurt, from every danger.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
[b]
May sweet Mary , together with her friend, deliver me from strangers.
Who's this 'friend' then?
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Flossymole
Apprentice
# 17339
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Posted
Originally posted by Percy B
'I wonder then if seeing angels - and I mean more than kind people! Is perhaps more common than we may at first think. There are examples, are there not, of angels only being recognised after the event. Maybe some for us are never recognised.'
Fascinating thread – lots of interesting speculation but not much in the way of post-biblical encounters. Does anyone remember the terrible Woolworth's fire in Manchester (England) May 1979 (I think). At the inquest a woman described getting lost in the pitch-black corridors on the second floor (the electrics failed early on and the place filled up with toxic smoke) along with her mother; then finding a room with two other women in it and a window they couldn't open. They were losing consciousness when a man in a white suit came in, took her by the hand and led them all down to safety. She assumed it was a member of staff, kitchen possibly, because of his suit. One of the firemen asked where they'd come from and when she pointed to the door he insisted that it was impossible. The man had disappeared, and it turned out that no-one had seen him at all except this woman. At the time she was convinced he was an ordinary solid man. There was no-one of his description unaccounted for or amongst the dead. I think the report was in the Manchester Evening News, but not sure. I've tried to get the court records, but they're not on line yet. The coroner was the highly respected Leo Gorodkin. I also remember that the woman and her mother had met in Woolworth's cafe to plan a trip to Lourdes.
Originally posted by Gee D:
'Angels are glorious indeed. They are of a different creation to us, but are with us in the Communion of Saints, with whom we join in our songs of never-ending praise to the Creator.'
I remember our vicar, one wet winter's evensong, with a congregation of four, reminding us of that fact, and telling us that the church at that moment was full of angels. Made us feel much better. We sang out for the angels and left with smiles on our four elderly faces.
Posts: 43 | From: Derbyshire UK | Registered: Sep 2012
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
That also makes sense, as many people do not see the angels with their flying wings, but just as normal looking human beings. Some do see the angels with their wings as we often have pictures of them, and children in church when they have to dress as angels wear wings too. (Also when we are attached to Sufism, we are told we have wings on us.)
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
I'm ambivalent about this angels. On the one hand, I used to sit in St. Michael's church in Munich and look up at the picture of the Archangel defeating Satan, and pray for help. I want to believe in them.
On the other hand, I have problems with the issue that angels sometimes help and sometimes don't. I remember a story about angels appearing in France during WWI and helping the British (I think) to victory against the odds. I know however of plenty stories of people being defeated in wars with no angelic help (say, with the attack on the Soviet Union in 1941, or on Poland in 1939). We all know plenty cases where help has not been given. I have problems with psalm 91 for that reason, as his angels were nowhere to be seen when Jesus died; in the gas chambers as well.
I know this addresses a much wider point of suffering and an interventionist God.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
I have an interest in angelology because I once wrote a dissertation on Gregory of Nazianzus's anthropology, which ended up being in no small part a discussion of his cosmology, in which angels play a large part.
For Gregory (and he's followed by various others, such as Maximus the Confessor), there is a triple creation: the noetic world (immaterial, creatures of mind), the material world (all creation approachable by the senses), and man (who is both noetic and material, whose very purpose is to unite the two).
So angels are creatures of the noetic world. They are purely nous (mind), not in any way embodied. They are close to God because they are like him in their nature, because God is also purely mind, not flesh. Interestingly, Gregory finds in this the source for their downfall -- the origin of their sin was their pride in being too like God, though they were always absolutely creation and therefore entirely inferior to the creator.
I found this account of angels to be rather helpful. The idea is that there is a whole realm of creation -- just as beautiful (and sinful) but in an entirely different way -- and that we have a claim in it as well because of our double creation as flesh and mind. And of course there is some communication and prayer and love between the two.
Yeah, I like angels ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Flossymole
Apprentice
# 17339
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Posted
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel
On the other hand, I have problems with the issue that angels sometimes help and sometimes don't. I remember a story about angels appearing in France during WWI and helping the British (I think) to victory against the odds.
I believe the 'Angels of Mons' story was a flight of fancy by a reporter (from The Times, I think) who visualised angels with swords above the army. He didn't actually see them. Nobody saw them. But the story was misread and repeated until it became folklore.
Posts: 43 | From: Derbyshire UK | Registered: Sep 2012
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
On the other hand, I have problems with the issue that angels sometimes help and sometimes don't.... I know this addresses a much wider point of suffering and an interventionist God.
Yes, you could ask the same question about God. Sometimes He helps and sometime He doesn't.
I think that something else entirely is going on with both God and angels. They both help continuously - exactly the same with every person, in every situation, all the time and everywhere.
The difference is that the nature of the help is that it is directed at our salvation and at our spiritual welfare. It affects our physical welfare only insofar as helping it would help our spiritual state.
Beyond that, angels and God do not interfere with the stable physical laws of nature, which are the bckground against which free choices are made. Nor do they contravene human freedom - which allows one person to harm another if they wish, and the consequences of human action to be negative ones.
This is why angels are virtually never evident to us, even though they are with us continuously. Only in the rarest of cases do they appear, when the situation demands it or allows for it.
Otherwise we would see that we live surrounded by angels and we would see God continually.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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