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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Revisiting the Alpha Course
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
Let me begin by saying I am uncomfortable with the teachings of evangelical churches. I know many Christians aren't but I thought it best to say at the start where I stand. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Now I have said that...
I do believe Christianity is worth 'catching' and a good way of getting it is through informal friendly groups which give space to tackle questions, and provide friendship and support.
Now it seems to me that in part that is what Alpha is about.
Only in part, I know, because there is also the distinctive atonement theology, anti gay, subservient view of women, inerrancy of scripture stuff... To name some.
But I am wondering if alpha has been revisited by those of a more open and liberal persuasion and has it worked, or have they steered clear of it because of its baggage.
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Mary, a priest??
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Twangist
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# 16208
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Posted
Don't they do Emmasus (or how ever you spell it) instead?
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JJ
SDG
blog
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Horatio Harumph
Shipmate
# 10855
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Posted
I am a reasonably liberal, very open Christian, who also attends an evangelical Anglican church that is part of the 'New Wine network' and runs Alpha on a regular basis.
I dont think everyone is enamoured with Alpha, and although I guess some of that may be to do with stance and view point, some of it isnt.
My experience of Alpha is poor. Very poor. My mothers experience, who went to the same one as me (I invited her, alas ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ) was also very poor, to the extent of it actually putting her more off God/off 'the church' than ever before.
Some of it do with Alpha itself, and some of it to do with the fact that both times I have done it, it seems more full of people who are already subscribed to the Christian faith, and a particular way of thinking, than not. Which just leads to an uncomfortable 'odd one out' feeling. It has also been full of people who think it ok to say out loud their judgements which have a hugely bad effect on people. For example my mother was chastised during one session for being remarried. Told she would be forgiven by God if she said sorry to Him. Her response was 'but I'm not sorry'.
It didn't go down well.
I'm not a fan of Alpha full stop, but have met lots of evangelical's who perhaps one would think would subscribe to it who are also not fans.
Its hit and miss to me.
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www.helenblogs.com
@helen_a13
Chocolate is proof that God wants us to be happy.
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Percy B
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# 17238
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Posted
I get the impression Emmaus is more of a study group while Alpha it seems to me attracts because of the size of the groups and the way it forms community. Having said that I know Alpha themselves would say there is more to it than that.
And it is in part that which concerns me - and Horatio H.
Let me share a few thoughts about revising Alpha my way!
Yes weekly meetings in a relaxed atmosphere for say 6 to 8 weeks. Each week similar structure -friendly welcome, introduction of topic, meal and chat over topic, some challenge, quiet time / prayer,,relaxed time of chat.
Some time away among it.
Some basic rules, such as we don't confront people like Horatio's mum with our moral opinions.
Maybe that's too faraway from alpha. However, it does seem to me that something like this to communicate what we are about to enquirers is a good thing.
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Mary, a priest??
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
The patterns - meetings, meals etc. - are probably a good approach
The material on the other hand, from what I understand, is, shall we say, rather unsophisticated.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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Percy B
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# 17238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
The patterns - meetings, meals etc. - are probably a good approach
The material on the other hand, from what I understand, is, shall we say, rather unsophisticated.
Indeed Karl, the trouble is liberal sophistication is difficult to communicate ina snappy attractive way
Part of the problem is that i I do not want to push black and white answers to complex questions, and I suspect the alpha approach does favour a direct Bible says answer.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horatio Harumph:
For example my mother was chastised during one session for being remarried. Told she would be forgiven by God if she said sorry to Him. Her response was 'but I'm not sorry'.
It didn't go down well.
I think I really like your mother.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Indeed Karl, the trouble is liberal sophistication is difficult to communicate ina snappy attractive way
Part of the problem is that i I do not want to push black and white answers to complex questions, and I suspect the alpha approach does favour a direct Bible says answer.
Not only that but it skates over gaps in the argument and hopes the listeners are too dumb to notice. I find it a little insulting. I also, alas, find Nicky Gumbel rather difficult to listen to, even when I agree with his argument.
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
Horatio Harumph
I've never done Alpha, but I've read sociologial studies of it, and discussed it with other people, and your experience matches some of what I've heard. Because the vast majority of participants are already Christians, it's bound to be difficult for those who come in from the periphery, or with no church background at all. The only way to resolve this is for groups to be formed based on the profiles of the different potential participants, rather than putting everyone who applies into the next programme coming up. Presumably you need good group leaders as well; they shouldn't let group members insult each other!
Why don't you, as a 'reasonably liberal, very open Christian', explore more liberal alternatives to Alpha? You're apparently attending a church that's somewhat less liberal than yourself, but there might be others in the congregation who'd like to start something that's less rigid or dogmatic than Alpha. Alpha has the brand recognition, but it clearly fails to meet the needs of many churches.
[ 09. October 2012, 21:29: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Horatio Harumph
I've never done Alpha, but I've read sociologial studies of it, and discussed it with other people, and your experience matches some of what I've heard. Because the vast majority of participants are already Christians, it's bound to be difficult for those who come in from the periphery, or with no church background at all. The only way to resolve this is for groups to be formed based on the profiles of the different potential participants, rather than putting everyone who applies into the next programme coming up. Presumably you need good group leaders as well; they shouldn't let group members insult each other!
Why don't you, as a 'reasonably liberal, very open Christian', explore more liberal alternatives to Alpha? You're apparently attending a church that's somewhat less liberal than yourself, but there might be others in the congregation who'd like to start something that's less rigid or dogmatic than Alpha. Alpha has the brand recognition, but it clearly fails to meet the needs of many churches.
Svitlane, thanks for that. It would be interesting to know what sociological thinking is on alpha and how it works.
I didn't realise that most of the participants were Christians already.min fact I though alpha style churches used alpha to convert.
What interests me is the apparently successful way an alpha course is run.
What makes a successful one?
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Mary, a priest??
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Ender's Shadow
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# 2272
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Posted
Churches need to be careful about the make up of alpha courses; there does need to be a clear majority of non-believers if it is to work well. It is a good way for a new comer to the area to get involved in a church, but they need to be a small proportion. Certainly the problem of a solid Christian majority on an alpha course is not one I've come across - bad mistake.
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Test everything. Hold on to the good.
Please don't refer to me as 'Ender' - the whole point of Ender's Shadow is that he isn't Ender.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
It would be interesting to know what sociological thinking is on alpha and how it works.
I didn't realise that most of the participants were Christians already.min fact I though alpha style churches used alpha to convert.
What interests me is the apparently successful way an alpha course is run.
What makes a successful one?
A good book on Alpha is Stephen Hunt,
'The Alpha Initiative: Evangelism in a Post-Christian Age'. I have an article of his here. The author is agnostic, but comes across as fair.
He says that Alpha is an evangelistic tool that's aimed at seekers and zones in on the contemporary longing for community and 'belonging before believing'. It has charismatic origins, and though it's practioners aren't all charismatic, it's success highlights the growing influence of the charismatic movement.
The author did some research in the UK in 1999 on whether Alpha was winning converts. He found that 70% of participants came to Alpha via their churches, i.e. they were already churchgoers. A questionnaire found that only 5% of participants saw themselves as 'outside the faith'. 14% were using Alpha as a refresher course. 66% wanted to deepen their faith and increase their knowledge of Christian doctrines. Asking if they'd become Christians as a result of taking the course, 77% said they were already Christians. Of the 17% who said they had converted, most were already in the church.
Socially and demographically Alpha tends to reach the kinds of people who are already churchgoers (e.g. white middle class people, with many retired people in the mix). Despite the heavy advertising, most people who attend do so because they know someone who attends the church in question, not because of the adverts.
The author also looks at Alpha in terms of globalisation, routinisation, customisation, burn-out, etc.
His conclusion was that 'the net effect of Alpha is to rejuvenate evangelically-minded churches and the spiritual life of their members' (which has often been the case for previous evangelistic efforts) and to spread charismatic Christianity among British churches.
Those are a few of the insights I have, mostly from the article, but in his book he talks about actual courses that he participated in for the purposes of research! Those stories were quite interesting, if I remember correctly.
[ 09. October 2012, 23:08: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
I have been reading Steven Hunt's 'The Alpha Experience'. Well worth reading. He points out that, except in prisons, the majority of attenders are already Christian, and that very few 'Aplpha Courses' actually follow the format, except fot the meal- or at least some food element.
This mirrors my experience. Two churches I have been involved in decided to run Alpha, and both redesigned the course.
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Still missing the gator
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
I think one problem that often occurs is:
* Church decides to run an Alpha course
* Congregation is encouraged to invite lots of non-Christians
* Very few people actually do, because most people intensely dislike evangelising in practice even if they are theoretically in favour of it
* But they feel vaguely guilty about it so they go along to the Alpha course *themselves*
* besides, the church is worried about the prospect of only having 2 and a half people on the course so they encourage Christians to come along "to brush up on the basics" as the course has it
* Hence any non-Christians who do come along are massively outnumbered by the Christians
* And it then becomes difficult to have the sort of "any question allowed" discussion that Alpha promises in the blurb and (to be fair) is intended to generate.
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Cedd
Shipmate
# 8436
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Posted
I would probably put myself somewhere on the 'liberal Catholic' part of the spectrum and certainly have no truck with much of conservative evagelicalism. However I have run Alpha in two different places with largely positive results, in terms of giving people a 'way in' to discussing issues of faith.
For me the most important lessons were about not being hidebound by the material and being committed to really allowing any question to be discussed honestly. My most negative experience was on the 'Holy Spirit' away day which was rather hijacked by some more evangelical brethren and who decided to try and force people into speaking in tongues. However, that was not strictly the fault of Alpha and I would be prepared to use it again, albeit with a different leadership team.
It is a good tool, but should not be allowed to become the master.
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Cedd
Churchmanship: This week I am mostly an evangelical, catholic, orthodox with both liberal and illiberal tendancies. Terms and conditions apply.
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Ramarius
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# 16551
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Posted
I'd be interested in some more up to date research - Hunt's work sounds interesting but it's over a decade old. I know churches that use Alpha as a membership course as much as an evangelistic tool which goes some way to accounting for the volume of church goers accessing it.
Alpha's beeing adapted by many churches to reflect local distinctives. The basic format is a good one for drawing in people who are interested in exploring the Christian faith - most of the people on the last Alpha-style course I attended were already going to my church, but hadn't decided if Christianity was for them. Simply saying that people attending Alpha were already attending church doesn't say anything about their commitment to Christianity per se. Perhaps Hunt's research explores this.
Alpha's been a very effective form for evangelism for a particular demographic in a particular kind of church. The most powerful aspect of it in my experience is the way it opens up some great conversations between hosts and guests. That's where the real business of Alpha is done - the teaching input provides a foundation for those conversations.
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Ramarius
Shipmate
# 16551
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Posted
X posted with Cedd. I'm from the other end of spectrum (evo charis) but agree entirely with Cedd's assessment. And glad you found Alpha useful
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
Let me begin by saying I am uncomfortable with the teachings of evangelical churches. I know many Christians aren't but I thought it best to say at the start where I stand.
Now I have said that...
I don't know enough about the details of Alpha's theology to comment on it, but from what I've heard of its actual implementation in churches, TurqoiseTastic seems to have summed it up perfectly.
What really intrigues me about your post, PB, is your squeamishness about expressing disapproval of evangelicals.
Evangelicals are the Ship's pariahs, there is permanent open season on them, and you can say things about them which would get you thrown overboard if they were said about any other tradition.
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Someone on a Back to Church Sunday training day I attended described having to run courses or new initiatives, and Alpha was given as an example, at least three times to start reaching out beyond the church to those outside. The first few times the church community works out whether they like them or not, and if they do, they start inviting people who are interested and might want to know more. But it takes time to establish, and doesn't happen immediately.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
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Cedd
Shipmate
# 8436
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Posted
Coming from a non-charismatic non-evo perspective my biggest problem was certainly the material used for the 'Holy Spirit' away day / weekend.
The talks set up an expectation of having a charismatic experience which, when (some) people don't have can leave them feeling as though they have someone 'failed' the course. In my case this was not helped by the fact that some of the other leaders were firmly of the view that unless you spoke in tongues you were not really saved, and started encouraging people to copy what they were doing.
There was simply too much psychological pressure being placed on people to act in a particular way, which looked rather 'cultish'.
If I were to use it again I would certainly revisit the away day material very closely, and would be more tempted to give people space and quiet with God.
[ 10. October 2012, 09:20: Message edited by: Cedd ]
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Cedd
Churchmanship: This week I am mostly an evangelical, catholic, orthodox with both liberal and illiberal tendancies. Terms and conditions apply.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ramarius:
Alpha's beeing adapted by many churches to reflect local distinctives. The basic format is a good one for drawing in people who are interested in exploring the Christian faith - most of the people on the last Alpha-style course I attended were already going to my church, but hadn't decided if Christianity was for them. Simply saying that people attending Alpha were already attending church doesn't say anything about their commitment to Christianity per se.
If your church has a considerable number of attenders who don't yet see themselves as Christians, then it's already quite a distinctive environment, and is almost certainly a charismatic or Pentecostal church. Most mainstream churches today have relatively few such people among their number (probably not enough to make up a full Alpha course) although once upon a time they used to be much more numerous.
(Some people may call themselves Christians whose claim may be doubted by others, but that's another matter.)
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cedd:
Coming from a non-charismatic non-evo perspective my biggest problem was certainly the material used for the 'Holy Spirit' away day / weekend.
I did Alpha with a MOTR CofE church that actually had the guts and good sense to tone down the away-weekend. They did a session based around confession instead. I still found it creepy and didn't join in fully. But even so, that weekend was a turning point, and I came away from it a Christian, having started it as a skeptic.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
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Cedd
Shipmate
# 8436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
quote:
Originally posted by Cedd:
Coming from a non-charismatic non-evo perspective my biggest problem was certainly the material used for the 'Holy Spirit' away day / weekend.
I did Alpha with a MOTR CofE church that actually had the guts and good sense to tone down the away-weekend. They did a session based around confession instead. I still found it creepy and didn't join in fully. But even so, that weekend was a turning point, and I came away from it a Christian, having started it as a skeptic.
Yes, I wish I had had the guts and good sense to tone it down more but, as you can probably tell, there were issues on the leadership team.
Interesting to hear that you didn't feel as though you joined in the activity and yet still came away having made a 'decision'. My personal inclination would be to make the away day into a quiet semi-led retreat and give people space for them and God, without pressure from the leaders. I would hope that that would make the experience more 'authentic' although I understand that we are not all made the same way.
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Cedd
Churchmanship: This week I am mostly an evangelical, catholic, orthodox with both liberal and illiberal tendancies. Terms and conditions apply.
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Flossymole
Apprentice
# 17339
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Posted
This all sounds like good sense. Our vicar (very intelligent, liberal minded) made several attempts to persuade me (totally convinced Christian but new to church) to attend the Alpha course run jointly with the local evangelical church. I refused because of a friend's experience. She told me the leader didn't even seem to hear her questions correctly, let alone understand or answer them. He had plenty of glib answers for the sort of question a stupid person might have been expected to ask and she felt patronised and bullied. She never got as far as the away weekend but did become a Christian; through reading the gospels not Alpha. But maybe the course I turned down was different.
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Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
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Posted
Percy B wrote: quote:
... I am uncomfortable with the teachings of evangelical churches.
....... there is also the distinctive atonement theology, anti gay, subservient view of women, inerrancy of scripture stuff... To name some.........
Well, my generalisation and stereotype monitor blew a fuse. Don't you realise that 'evangelical' churches have as broad a spectrum of beliefs and theologies as 'liberal' churches do?
OK, the Alpha course was designed by a 'charismatic' 'evangelical' Anglican, so some of the beliefs and theology in the course will reflect that. Indeed, the brand Alpha is supposed to be used to indicate what sort of stuff you are getting. However, in my experience of Alpha over some 20 years, in Prisons, Churches, Pubs, and abroad, there has been no theological stance on gays, subservient women, or even distinctive atonement theology.
As Ceed has so eloquently put it, the Alpha course is a tool with some useful aims - to provide a welcoming community for exploring issues of faith, spirituality and life, and an opportunity for people to encounter God. Most of the criticisms on this board relate to the way the tool is used. For example, one foundational aspect of Alpha is that any question is allowable, and all questions should be listened to carefully - indeed the training manual is at pains to point out that answers should not be offered immediately, let alone judgemental remarks. I have had a number of occasions where I have asked Christians NOT to come in order to allow more open exploration of people's views and questions.
ISTM that a mix of table fellowship, friendship, study and real discussion is a great way to allow God to work in peoples' lives. The trouble is that often we Christians ('evangelical' or otherwise) often get in the way.
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I must admit to having avoided Alpha courses like the plague. They all sound too touchy-feely to me. Because I feel like that I do not think I could ask any non Christian friends to attend something about which I feel so uncomfortable.
[ 10. October 2012, 12:49: Message edited by: bib ]
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
Evangelicals are the Ship's pariahs, there is permanent open season on them, and you can say things about them which would get you thrown overboard if they were said about any other tradition.
Interesting POV! Mindless simplistic stereotyping springs to mind. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
Just to chime in… I ran several Alpha course at HTB under the direction of the Alpha Apostles and HTB Nobility. I suppose like all of these courses, it's a mixed bag. As has been mentioned, the meal plus chat is a good mix. Theologically it is rather wooly *in places*, but you can change it--no matter what the Alpha apparatchiks say. There is too much emphasis on the (unsupported) inerrancy of the Bible, though that is not a problem with the Alpha Course, per se, but rather part of the evangelical tradition(s). The next area to consider carefully is the *very* strong emphasis on the conversion 'experience'. It's built into the talks and an explicit expectation.Like so much charo-evo stuff it is very 'event' orientated. The Holy Spirit section is a mixture of orthodox teachings and the New Age movement that came into the evangelical movement (at least in the UK) primarily though John Wimber and his followers. As a result, there is a lot of talk about 'power' and getting 'power' and so on. The New Age stuff (NB, the Dutch Reformed Church has been very critical of the New Age/Kundalini aspect of this movement; so it's not some liberal conspiracy).
The other questions you ask--which are good questions--are about 'success'. The Alpha Course is supposed be a talking shop (discuss the meaning of life, etc.) which it *can* be if you let it. Alas, most people who run cannot keep their mouths shut and try to offer answers to questions of those on the course. In Alpha boot camp you are (wisely) told not to do this. So, despite all my criticisms, it isn't fair to blame the Alpha Course for that.
I would not, in a million years, do or run an Alpha Course again. However, I am in a very negative and post-evangelical phase right now. I can look back and see the flimsiness and haphazardness of it all. Nicky G. assures the congo about the importance of orthodoxy and then tells them to channel their powers… These are not bad people at all, just mistaken.
So… do run * something*! Maybe an Alpha Course that has had its doctrinal compass reset or some other course.
Best of luck!
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
Another big (and I mean big) problem is heavy reliance on testimonies. I can remember one bloke that was regularly trotted out to give his Alpha testimony about how he had been living rough and on drugs and then he did an Alpha Course and went back to school and did his A levels and got a first! We later discovered it was made up, at least in part; but that's what you get when you take people of a certain type an emphasise the 'show'. You can guarantee exaggerations. Yet again, it's all part of the new paradigm and cannot be changed.
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horatio Harumph:
For example my mother was chastised during one session for being remarried. Told she would be forgiven by God if she said sorry to Him. Her response was 'but I'm not sorry'.
It didn't go down well.
That is terrible. That is the opposite of what the Alpha course is supposed to be.
I hope it was someone on the course who said this and not one of the leaders.
If it was one of the leaders who said this then they have not learned how to lead Alpha. Alpha is supposed to be non judgemental.
Whatever happened to Ma Harumph is regrettable. But this sort of thing should never happen on the Alpha course, and it is not the fault of Alpha that it happened.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Horatio Harumph:
For example my mother was chastised during one session for being remarried. Told she would be forgiven by God if she said sorry to Him. Her response was 'but I'm not sorry'.
It didn't go down well.
That is terrible. That is the opposite of what the Alpha course is supposed to be.
Not sure about 'supposed'. I have seen three TV documentaries about Alpha. On each one, with different punters, gay men were told to repent and chose to leave the course instead, making many of the straight punters very uncomfortable and some of them leaving in solidarity.
[ 10. October 2012, 15:27: Message edited by: leo ]
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
Yes Leo, you are right about that. 'Lifestyle choice' [sic] was the HTB phrase…
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
This link is to a page on my web site which is about the Alpha course. It says something about 'four years ago', but actually it's about ten now. If I'd had the experience of forums then that I have now, I would have written in a more assertive way, I think.
Two years ago, I thought it would be interesting to see how another local church ran theirs, so joined. I went as a sceptic (and made this quite clear) , but only went for three meetings, as the Vicar, lovely man though he was and who said he welcomed challenging questions, really had no idea how anyone could feel complete without God. He could see, however, that I am a very well-adjusted, happy, confident kind of person and seemed slightly puzzled by this! Well, there you are, that's my genetic make-up!
On the first course, I was the only sceptic, the others were all members of the church; on the second, there was a man there who was very interested in my scepticism and followed up my questions, but I do not know what happened thereafter. There were on this second time only five, including the Vicar.
This thread is most interesting to read, as there are so many questioning posts.
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
Percy B wrote: quote:
... I am uncomfortable with the teachings of evangelical churches.
....... there is also the distinctive atonement theology, anti gay, subservient view of women, inerrancy of scripture stuff... To name some.........
Well, my generalisation and stereotype monitor blew a fuse. Don't you realise that 'evangelical' churches have as broad a spectrum of beliefs and theologies as 'liberal' churches do?
I took care to distinguish between evangelical approach as a whole, and Alpha in particular.
I honestly thought Alpha had a particular line on gays, role of women and atonement theology. It seems some others here have this same impression.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
This link is to a page on my web site which is about the Alpha course. It says something about 'four years ago', but actually it's about ten now. If I'd had the experience of forums then that I have now, I would have written in a more assertive way, I think.
Two years ago, I thought it would be interesting to see how another local church ran theirs, so joined. I went as a sceptic (and made this quite clear) , but only went for three meetings, as the Vicar, lovely man though he was and who said he welcomed challenging questions, really had no idea how anyone could feel complete without God. He could see, however, that I am a very well-adjusted, happy, confident kind of person and seemed slightly puzzled by this! Well, there you are, that's my genetic make-up!
On the first course, I was the only sceptic, the others were all members of the church; on the second, there was a man there who was very interested in my scepticism and followed up my questions, but I do not know what happened thereafter. There were on this second time only five, including the Vicar.
This thread is most interesting to read, as there are so many questioning posts.
With the greatest of respect SusanDoris why exactly did you go? I wouldn't attend a secular humanist gathering just out of interest, as I already know enough about their message to know it isn't for me.
EDIT:
No, skip that - I should read your link first (and probably fume over it!) ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
[ 10. October 2012, 20:17: Message edited by: Mark Betts ]
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
from SusanDoris' link
'What you mean is I'm a disruptive influence!'
But you WERE a disruptive influence!
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Kaplan Corday
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# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
The New Age stuff (NB, the Dutch Reformed Church has been very critical of the New Age/Kundalini aspect of this movement; so it's not some liberal conspiracy).
It is possible to be very suspicious and critical of many aspects of the Pentecostal/charismatic movement, including "Signs and Wimbers", as I am, without being a doctrinaire cessationist.
The Reformed tradition, however, does tend to be knee-jerk, blanket cessationist, in line with their ideologues in this field such as B.B. Warfield.
It is imperative therefore, to take anything which the DRC or any other Reformed body pronounces about penties/charos, with a hermeneutic of suspicion, which is to say, with a huge pinch of salt.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
I know the OP is about Alpha, and the Emmaus course has also been mentioned. But there is a third option: "Christianity Explored"
This is a non-charismatic course, where (they say) they differ from Alpha because they believe in Hell whereas Alpha doesn't.
I took a brief interest, when I went to a church in London, but I was only working there for a short while so couldn't persue it.
I was conservative evangelical at the time (I didn't need to be converted) and it all seemed good to me, although I expect I'd be far more critical now.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
from SusanDoris' link
'What you mean is I'm a disruptive influence!'
But you WERE a disruptive influence!
As far as I can get from Alpha blurb, there is no limit on kinds of questions an attendee may bring up. If SusanDoris had gone to the program with the intent to hog all the discussion time, that would be different story. But I doubt that was the case knowing her posting style. If a Christian program for educating people about the basics of the faith can't deal with polite but assertive questions, the leaders need to go back to the drawing board. Use a format that can handle tough questions but still keep the program moving. Alpha is mainly meant to evangelize non-Christians, along with giving continuing Christians an opportunity to brush-up up on various aspects of their faith. SusanDoris is a non-Christian. She was interested. As far as they knew she might decide to convert.
But you win some, you lose some.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
So it seems that what helps alpha work, and so can be reworked in more open settings is:
Food and fellowship
Friendly welcome
Atmosphere where there is some clear talking, and allowing any questions
Encouragement of friendship
Regular meetings, short term....
Any other ingredients?
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Ramarius
Shipmate
# 16551
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
So it seems that what helps alpha work, and so can be reworked in more open settings is:
Food and fellowship
Friendly welcome
Atmosphere where there is some clear talking, and allowing any questions
Encouragement of friendship
Regular meetings, short term....
Any other ingredients?
Powerful accounts of how becoming a Christian has changed for the better the life experience of a wide variety of people. Since Christianity is by definition a life-changing experience you really can't run a course exploring the Christian faith without being able to answer the question "So if I take the plunge and commit my life to Christ, what might be the practical result?"
Posts: 950 | From: Virtually anywhere | Registered: Jul 2011
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
What happened to Mum Harrumph is appalling. If that was a group leader or helper, they have completely misunderstood the approach. If it was a guest, then I would hope a group leader would chime in and try to smooth ruffled feathers.
What many Christians who lead/help on Alpha find difficult is that they are not supposed to give 'answers' - the point is for people to discover their own. OK, so there is a certain set of assumptions behind this - if your group members all decide to become goat-sacrificing satanists by the end of the course, then maybe someone should have said something at some point ...
I have helped on dozens of courses run by our church and others - sometimes jointly by a group of churches including RC, Baptist, Anglican and independent churches. It's not for everyone, certainly, but it has much more appeal than the 'middle class dinner party' stereotype. We have had Alpha in a gym, a library, a pub and a curry house. We have almost always had a majority with no church background, and they have ranged from company directors to homeless alcoholics (in the same group, no less...)
I would say that if you are not comfortable with the material, the 'eat, listen, discuss' format would work with many sources and could be a good one to try.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
Eat, listen, discuss is a helpful reminder, thanks, Gill.
And yes too a sharing of personal story. The problem there is from a more liberal position the story isn't always as exciting.
I guess too careful ambiance and preparation pays off.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
I know the OP is about Alpha, and the Emmaus course has also been mentioned. But there is a third option: "Christianity Explored"
This is a non-charismatic course, where (they say) they differ from Alpha because they believe in Hell whereas Alpha doesn't.
This is an astonishing assertion! I can't say I've noticed that charismatic evangelical churches are hotbeds of universalism...
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
I guess these different courses, and I have not heard of Christianity Explored (a rather 80s title?), but am I right in thinking each is from a slightly differing school of thought.
There was mention of a Beta course, but maybe that was a spoof.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
I guess these different courses, and I have not heard of Christianity Explored (a rather 80s title?), but am I right in thinking each is from a slightly differing school of thought.
Yes, that's about the size of it.
- Alpha = charismatic evangelical
- Christianity Explored = conservative evangelical (closed)
- Emmaus = more liberal (open) evangelical
quote:
There was mention of a Beta course, but maybe that was a spoof.
No, it's not a spoof - Beta is a follow up course to Alpha, for more serious study (potential leaders for example).
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
- Alpha = charismatic evangelical
- Christianity Explored = conservative evangelical (closed)
- Emmaus = more liberal (open) evangelical
This is an over=generalisation. Alpha may have originated from the New Wine section of the Anglican church, but spread far more widely. There is (or perhaps was) a specifically Roman Catholic Alpha.
Christianity Explored originated from All Souls, Langham Place, which is associated with John Stott. I'm not sure whether it was totally intentional, but it tends to be associated with the Reformed (and usually non-Evangelical Alliance) Evangelical churches.
The Emmaus Course is also associated with Anglicanism via the Diocese of Wakefield but is claimed to have been written by a cross-denominational group. I think the truth is that it borrows a lot from the Catholic Cursillo movement.
There is also the Y Course, which I understand comes from a Evangelical-Alliance affiliated Baptist-type backaground and tends to avoid using churchy language for concepts (so they allege).
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
My personal experience of Alpha was not particularly a good one but the most annoying part for me was that it just stopped at the end of week 10 with nothing. No invitation to join in anything else, no helping me to get settled into the Sunday congregation just "well that's all folks". Whether this was down to me getting absolutely nothing out of the Holy Spirit weekend, despite people telling me what I was really feeling (which was news to me), or whether they just didn't want me to join them I don't know but I went away having a lot of prejudices that I held about Christians (not Christianity) confirmed.
Although I have drifted away from Christianity again I was fortunate in stumbling across the Dean from the Cathedral (now a well known Bishop) who listened and welcomed me to the congregation. I think I got more from three or four twenty minute chats after work in the Cathedral and a friendly face saying hello and telling me how to join in on Sunday morning than I did from over twenty hours of Alpha.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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