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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: And WHICH bone did God take from Adam to form Eve?
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TomOfTarsus
Shipmate
# 3053
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Posted
I just had to post this. I just didn't know where, so hosts, feel free to move it. But as it turns on the translation of a single Hebrew word, here it is:
They're making a case that it wasn't Adam's rib that God took to from Eve.
In one way, what a hoot! What does this do to all those sayings engraved on plaques & such, like "He formed her from his side, to be protected by him, equal to him," etc. (I forget how it goes)? So it may just be a Heaven thread.
On the other hand, does this do anything to our concept of God and His creation? I have no ideas, and I'm so busy I shouldn't be posting this now, but like a 13 year old schoolboy, I couldn't resist.
And frankly, they make a darn good case. Where'd it go? Any Hebrew experts on board want to weigh in on this?
Glory, the punny jokes we could make...
Blessings,
Tom
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By grace are ye saved through faith... not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ... ordained that we should walk in them.
Posts: 1570 | From: Pittsburgh, PA USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
Don't worry too much about it. They are just ribbing you.
Or was that one of the punny jokes you thought we might make?
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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TomOfTarsus
Shipmate
# 3053
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Posted
NOW DON'T START! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
(actually, I can think of far worse... ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif) )
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By grace are ye saved through faith... not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ... ordained that we should walk in them.
Posts: 1570 | From: Pittsburgh, PA USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
?
Where have they been? People have been questioning the whole "rib vs side" thing for a long time.
[ 10. November 2012, 03:37: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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TomOfTarsus
Shipmate
# 3053
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Posted
Yeah, but this isn't rib vs. side. This is rib vs. pubic bone. I told you there was a giddy teenage boy in the locker room side to it! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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By grace are ye saved through faith... not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ... ordained that we should walk in them.
Posts: 1570 | From: Pittsburgh, PA USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
(Grunt) OK.
I'm thinking of Rocky from the "Rocky Horror Show."
I can see the "pelvic thrust" being involved in his creation.
"And God put Adam into a deep sleep. Then he took a jump to the left, and then a jump to the right..."
[ 10. November 2012, 03:59: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Just to let y'all know, I just put in a suggestion to the Keryg Hosts to move this thread. Until they do, behave yourself while you are down here.
Kelly "do as I say, not as I do" Alves
Admin
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
I've heard this one a long time ago—mostly because bacula were, for whatever obvious reason, a favorite party favor to visiting speakers from my biology teacher dad. I can't remember who mentioned this first, but it's not a new theory.
I'm surprised they don't also mention the part about Jacob/Israel wrestling with the angel, until being touched on the "inner hollow of his thigh." Hearing that story when younger, I always thought Jacob was a bit of a wuss. You spend all night wrestling, but one tap on the thigh, and you're out? Then the angel gives you a new name for your valiant struggle, even though you lost? Then you hear that Hebrew has no word for where the angel actually grabbed Jacob, and it all makes more sense. Yeah, I think I'd give up too if someone pulled a low cheater move on me like that.
So no. That the Bible was being euphemistic, rather than just a bit strange in places discussing anatomy, is not a new idea, nor is it the worst one.
[ 10. November 2012, 05:09: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Wait, isn't there some wacky Phoenician myth about Baal creating the world by (no no no no no.)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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St. Stephen the Stoned
Shipmate
# 9841
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
I've heard this one a long time ago—mostly because bacula were, for whatever obvious reason, a favorite party favor to visiting speakers from my biology teacher dad.
Could you, er, enlarge on that? What is a party favor? How is it worn? Strange images fill my mind. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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Do you want to see Jesus or don't yer? Well shurrup then!
Posts: 518 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jul 2005
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Nigel M
Shipmate
# 11256
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Posted
Behaving.
It might be possible to argue in support of the article's suggestion that a reference to a penile bone fits better in the textual context of man and woman sticking together as one flesh. However, the Hebrew word is used in the vast majority of the 40 times it occurs in the Jewish scripture to refer to the frames associated with the tabernacle or temple. By implication in its use, there is a dual aspect - i.e. one frame has a symmetrical opposite. This is so even with the one occasion the word is used to denote the rim of the hill Shimei was prancing along while taunting David and his men (2 Sam. 16:13) – he was on one hill's rim, David and Co. on an adjacent rim.
Given this, unless humans were supposed to have two bacula (not asserted in the article), the use of the Hebrew word tsela doesn't fit that well. It would still make somewhat more sense to refer to the 'rib' as a frame with an opposite on the other side.
There was a suggestion some time ago that the Hebrew version of this episode was linked to a Sumerian poem where the goddess Ninti was created for healing Enki’s rib. 'Ninti' means “the Lady of the rib” or “the Lady who makes live.” So Eve, the mother of all human beings, was made from the man’s rib. The idea is that the Sumerian word for “life” (ti[l]) and the word for “rib” (ti) are connected.
Whatever the likelihood of that (and it has to be said it lost something in the Hebrew translation from Sumerian!), it may just be the case that – to adopt a time honoured phrase in Kerygmania – sometimes a rib is just a rib.
Posts: 2826 | From: London, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
Certainly in Egyptian mythology, the world was ejaculated by the ithyphallic deity Min. Just think, only a Kleenex away from being lost almost as soon as it was created...
Kelly, did you alter your sig specially for this thread? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
First, considering the blog feature linked in the OP carries the title ROFL, I think that ought to tip off the reader that it isn't exactly, um, hard science.
quote:
Originally posted by TomOfTarsus:
What does this do to all those sayings engraved on plaques & such, like "He formed her from his side, to be protected by him, equal to him," etc.
If the engraved saying is "bone of my bone," they'd only have to carve a little r in there.
Oops. I'd better get this thread to the correct board for that sort of thing. Up we go!
Mamacita,
Kerygmania Host
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Are you suggesting, Mrs Cita, that Heaven is all knob jokes?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Certainly in Egyptian mythology, the world was ejaculated by the ithyphallic deity Min. Just think, only a Kleenex away from being lost almost as soon as it was created...
Kelly, did you alter your sig specially for this thread?
AG
YES, I SURE AS HELL DID.
Things have been entirely too heavy lately. Bring on the dick jokes.
(and thanks, that's the story I was thinking of.)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Are you suggesting, Mrs Cita, that Heaven is all knob jokes?
It were Kelly made me do it, Miss!
Actually, that's not true. But as the OP predicted, there were punny puns to be punned. And perhaps there is room for other creative takes on the creation narrative.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
If I may be so bold as to suggest a touch of re-framing for this dialogue, it occurs to me that Shipmates are discussing Genesis 2:18-24 while leaving aside verse 25, which states, "And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed."
I question whether Shipmates who are not naked can fully appreciate and discuss this pericope.
Perhaps a chat room could be reserved for the continuation of this discussion, with all taking part agreeing to do so naked.
Provided that they were not ashamed to do so, of course.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
You go first. We'll be right behind you.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Maybe God used a collection to build a skeleton ...
Buy one on amazon and make your own creation myth ...
[ 10. November 2012, 20:16: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
You go first. We'll be right behind you.
Thank you for the new signature, Kelly.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
Provided that they were not ashamed to do so, of course.
Too late. We're fallen.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
I can see it on the front page now...
Ship of Fools: Home of the Christian knob gag.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Bugger. I just went to the Cafe, and there was no one there to carry this discussion forward. Nor was there any capacity for hooking up a webcam.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
Bugger. I just went to the Cafe, and there was no one there to carry this discussion forward..
That's because we're behind you.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Nigel M: quote:
Given this, unless humans were supposed to have two bacula (not asserted in the article), the use of the Hebrew word tsela doesn't fit that well. It would still make somewhat more sense to refer to the 'rib' as a frame with an opposite on the other side.
Yeah, but if the theory of the story is true, Adam has a penis sans bone, and Eve is a bacula sans penis. Sounds pretty symmetrical to me. All parts are accounted for.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Some of us are slightly nekkid ...
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
The spirit of Kenwritez hovers over the cafe. Envision that and tremble.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
*clasps bed-jacket to her ample bosom*
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Don't worry too much about it. They are just ribbing you.
Or was that one of the punny jokes you thought we might make?
You know this is going to cause a bone of contention with some people, right? Although nothing to get too hung about!
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
*clasps bed-jacket to her ample bosom*
[Kenneth Williams]Ohohohohohohoh! [/Kenneth Williams]
A quivering AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Chamois
Shipmate
# 16204
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Posted
Nah. No way. I don't believe it for a moment.
Not even God would make a whole woman from a little bitty bone like a rib, still less from an even littler bittier bone in some man's pecker.
I believe God made woman from man's backbone. And that's why I've never met a man who had one.
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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
Posts: 978 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
Definitely not a new idea, but I've heard an interesting tradition that relates to this. The story goes that in order to extract the bone, God had to make an incision at the base, which is why gents will find something that looks a lot like a scar or seam running down the middle of their scrotum.
They don't teach you that in Sunday School.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Ahem - call you on that one, I'm in the café and so are a few others!
I was referring, of course, to the "in-crowd" chatroom, there is never much of a crowd in there.
Hey, you don't suppose someone is playing a bit of a joke on me, and it isn't really a chatroom at all, do you?
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Everybody - Sssssssshhhhh!
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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savedbyhim01
Apprentice
# 17035
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Posted
This is an easy one. Genesis 2:22 says, "The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man."
It was a rib and there is no reason to think otherwise. Besides, that article doesn't make any sense. God taking a bone from Adam doesn't mean that all his descendants will be missing the bone. You can try. Cut off a toe bone and then have a kid and see if he is born with 4 or 5 toes.
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Matthew 28:18-20
My Inductive Bible Study Notes
Posts: 31 | From: China | Registered: Apr 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by savedbyhim01:
This is an easy one. Genesis 2:22 says, "The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man."
The Bible wasn't written in English.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
The word "rib" is a mistranslation.
It actually refers to the small bones of the inner ear.
Which explains why when a woman is talking a man hears nothing.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Bacula. Wasn't he in Quantum Leap?
Oh boy...
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Mullygrub
Up and over
# 9113
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by savedbyhim01:
This is an easy one.
That's what he said.
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Smurfs are weird. And so am I.
Posts: 634 | From: Melbskies | Registered: Feb 2005
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