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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Chichester Diocese
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Oscar, according to their website, the chair of the Chichester Board of Education is someone named Mike Wilson.
According to the BBC, Mr Terry Boatwright, executive Head Teacher of the school in question said, '"Bishop Bell School has a robust safeguarding policy in place, takes safeguarding very seriously and the effectiveness of its safeguarding procedures is rated 'outstanding' by Ofsted.' I cannot immediately recall where I read that the parents at the school were sent a letter assuring them that the 38 offences against children that Canon Rideout was charged with were old ones from back in the '60s and '70s, so they shouldn't worry about him being a school governor.
Jesus wept. Bishop Bell is revolving in his tomb.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Sorry, that last post should have been addressed to Vaticanchic.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
This school sounds very dire and has a lot to answer for.
However dire though, moral outrage about ineffective child protection by others must not detract from holding this teacher personally and individually responsible in full. There was something on the news about his having mentioned to a friend that he was facing a deep moral dilemma.
No. Even if you are not a teacher, you do not seduce a girl of 15. Not even if nobody stops you. Nor if she throws herself at you. Nor if you fool yourself into believing this is different, that the world doesn't understand, that this is "experiential and educative on both sides" and she is the one true love of your life. There is no dilemma.
Her teacher hasn't even got the excuse 'I did not know she was so young your honour'.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Certainly the teacher is culpable, Enoch. So is the other teacher from that school, who is now in prison. However there seem to be weaknesses within the system which not only allow teachers such as these to go about grooming and seducing students but may even attract such teachers to the area and to church schools.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Quite right, Enoch: no moral dilemma whatsoever. If you just like shagging young girls, make sure they are 16 and they're not your pupils. If she's the love of your life, then you can wait three years for her. This is regardless of any question of whether a relationship, now, would be in itself harmful to her (or to you, I suppose): it's a matter of respect for boundaries. End of.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
I can't seem to locate any statement from the diocese as yet regarding this matter, have I missed it?
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
I can't seem to locate any statement from the diocese as yet regarding this matter, have I missed it?
It's all very quiet, isn't it?
Almost as quiet as Lambeth Palace has been about Wallace Benn's CDM and East Sussex's request to have WB suspended.
Could it be that the two silences are somehow linked? Just a thought....
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
Indeed, and funny how a series of retirements and new appointments is still considered sufficient to bury this sort of thing ...
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Why would the diocese have been involved in the Stammers affair? Is a school run by them directly ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Bishop Bell is a Voluntary Aided school, which means that, although it receives government funding, the church owns the buildings and grounds and has a substantial influence in the running of the school. The contrast is with a Voluntary Controlled school which is controlled by the Local Education Authority. A Voluntary Aided school will have several church representatives, almost always including the local incumbent, on its governing body. The Diocesan Board of Education has among its various functions the oversight of church schools.
In short, yes, I would have expected the Diocese of Chichester to have had something to say about this situation: not merely the Stammers/Forest case, but the previous case of grooming and the presence of Canon Rideout on the Board of Governors.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Canon Rideout
You think my sense of humour's a bit off-colour? God's is clearly utterly depraved.
[ 27. September 2012, 09:33: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I think you've killed the thread, Karl! ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
Not quite.
And apparently, this case is on Crimewatch tonight, as Forrest's arrest warrant is issued, so we might get something from diocese in due course.
So, am I right in reckoning that Bp John Hind resigned last year as things began to kick off? Who's been running the show since then? When did Wallace finish work?
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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Lord Pontivillian
Shipmate
# 14308
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Posted
Bishop Mark, of Horsham, is currently in charge.
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The Church in Wales is Ancient, Catholic and Deformed - Typo found in old catechism.
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
Not quite.
And apparently, this case is on Crimewatch tonight, as Forrest's arrest warrant is issued, so we might get something from diocese in due course.
So, am I right in reckoning that Bp John Hind resigned last year as things began to kick off? Who's been running the show since then? When did Wallace finish work?
I doubt that Crimewatch will have much effect on the diocese. Your reckoning sounds about right to me.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
When did Wallace finish work?
He didn't. A date of August 31 was previously mooted, but he appears still to be in post.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
I see. So, how many bishops are currently in post in the diocese but not working?!
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
[tangent]
Fuck knows what will happen with child protection in the new free schools.
[/tangent]
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
So, am I right in reckoning that Bp John Hind resigned last year as things began to kick off? Who's been running the show since then? When did Wallace finish work?
Bp Hind didn't resign. He retired (just in the knick of time, clearly).
Part of my fury over this affair is that it appears that he and Wallace Benn seem to the ones ultimately responsible for the laxity - and they will both have retired on a bishop's pension by the time anyone gets round to disciplining them - making such discipline almost irrelevant.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Vaticanchic
Shipmate
# 13869
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Posted
Given all these resignations/retirements, including the Archbishop's, there's enough swinging in the wind to avoid having to proceed with any CDM - unless there are criminal charges, of course.
Unless a deal is not agreed & a stand is made.
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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
I see that it has now been announced that Wallace Benn will retire on 31st Oct.
What is the betting that the CDM procedure against him will now be quietly "lost"?
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
A tangent I know. But I believe Bishop Ball had a brother. And both had navy connections.
Hence they were known as the "Navy's Balls".
So I hear.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
When last I looked the BBC seem not to be saying- perhaps for fear of prejudicing any future proceedings- that when Bp Ball resigned from Gloucester this was also in the context of allegations of abuse, for which he received a police caution- and to get one of those you have to admit the offence.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
The reports keep saying the diocese is cooperating fully with the police. I hope to God that doesn't mean they've abandoned the clerics in question to the police and someone is giving them pastoral care.
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
When last I looked the BBC seem not to be saying- perhaps for fear of prejudicing any future proceedings- that when Bp Ball resigned from Gloucester this was also in the context of allegations of abuse, for which he received a police caution- and to get one of those you have to admit the offence.
That's odd - I read the article earlier and I'm sure the "related stories" panel had a link to that, as I read about it at that point. It's the link that has gone I think - as you say it may be for legal reasoning.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
When will it end?
Thurible
Only when the perpetrators of abuse and the exploiters of vulnerable children are called to account.
Only when the accusations of cover ups at the highest of levels are thoroughly investigated.
Only when justice is done.
Only when "it's only old +++++" or "it's only his way, ignore him" will never ever be heard again, because they just aren't needed.
Then and only then.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote:
from the Interim Report, Appendix II
All Safeguarding officers/advisers should be independent of the Church of England; they should neither be members of the clergy nor related to members of the clergy.
Child Protection Officer /Safeguarding Administrator for at least 6+ years was a Mrs J Hind...
Reading a Timeline on the Cotton affair in particular is most illuminating and, on its own, gives ample evidence of the shambles that masquerades as the administration of the diocese.
Concerns about Bishop Ball were first raised when he was chaplain at Ardingly (diocese of Chichester, of course)
With rumours of yet more to come perhaps the time has come for diocesan reorganisation to begin, not with Yorkshire, but on the south coast. Shame for an historic diocese but maybe Chichester should be split between Portsmouth and a newly created diocese of, say, Lewes?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Shame for an historic diocese but maybe Chichester should be split between Portsmouth and a newly created diocese of, say, Lewes?
Seriously, I feel sure that the geographical unwieldliness of the diocese must be one of the factors in its dysfuncionality.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Perhaps it is a factor. But having spent hours reading through a lot of the reports on Chichester, the message that comes through loud and clear is of a diocese where everybody does their own thing. The only thing that will change that is a whole change of culture, and that takes time.
The risk of dividing the diocese, then, is that whatever steps are taken to counter this in the short term, the attitude will still exist when the division occurs, serving simply to introduce the attitude to two other dioceses, in one of which it already existed. It could make things worse, not better.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Seriously, I feel sure that the geographical unwieldliness of the diocese must be one of the factors in its dysfuncionality.
What is unwieldy about a diocese that is 75 miles by 25? It takes less than 90 minutes to get from one end of the diocese to the other.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Exactly. And anyway e.g. Lichfield and Lincoln are unwieldy in their own ways but they don't have Chichester's problems (well, Lincoln has problems of its own, but they're different).
Chichester has long had a reputation, rightly or wrongly, as the place where all the wrong'uns end up: over 20 years ago, when I was exploring a vocation and got the sack from a job I had at the Church Commissioners ( a long story, but it wasn't for fiddling with either money or people), the first reaction of a rather histrionic friend of mine was 'Well, you do realise that the only diocese that'll take you now is Chichester!'
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Chichester has long had a reputation, rightly or wrongly, as the place where all the wrong'uns end up:
An interesting observation Albertus.
If you read the text of the reports referred to above, it's difficult to avoid the conclusion that other dioceses were actively manoeuvring "difficult cases" into Chichester. Which has major implications on dioceses other than Chichester of course.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
We've given a fair outing in the Styx to the matter of the Ship's vulnerability if illegal or libellous comments are published here. It's one of the reasons why Commandment 7 is worded the way it is, and Hosts are expected to to look after the Ship's interests in this respect. Here's the general guideline
quote:
We do not have the resources to check the legality of everything posted on the Ship. And, we certainly don't have the resources to respond to any legal challenge to anything posted on the Ship. Therefore, we hold a simple precautionary principal to remove anything that might get us into legal difficulties.
(From a very recent post by Alan Cresswell in the Styx.)
+Peter Ball has been released on bail (medical grounds) and without charge. He may be questioned again. That is a matter of public record.
Please respect the Ship's vulnerability and be cautious in any further comments about +Peter Ball.
[You may also wish to note action taken in the Jimmy Savile Hell thread (the removal of speculative comments about other associates)].
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
[QUOTE] Chichester has long had a reputation, rightly or wrongly, as the place where all the wrong'uns end up:
And I thought it was Ely - drop them all in the lonely Fens
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
To be fair, ExclamationMark, that was a quote taken from Albertus.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
quote:
from the Interim Report, Appendix II
All Safeguarding officers/advisers should be independent of the Church of England; they should neither be members of the clergy nor related to members of the clergy.
Child Protection Officer /Safeguarding Administrator for at least 6+ years was a Mrs J Hind...
Mrs Hind was child protection officer in Chichester Diocese when +John Hind was Bishop of Europe. When he moved so did she to avoid exactly that sort of conflict of interest. There was some period of overlap, IIRC, but unless one thinks that women should resign their jobs forthwith when their husbands are appointed Diocesan Bishop she can hardly be blamed for waiting a reasonable amount of time for a sideways move to become available.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
[QUOTE] from the Interim Report, Appendix II
All Safeguarding officers/advisers should be independent of the Church of England; they should neither be members of the clergy nor related to members of the clergy.
Mrs Hind was child protection officer in Chichester Diocese when +John Hind was Bishop of Europe.
Bishop of Europe is still part of the Church of England though, isn't it? So contravening the guideline as quoted?
Admittedly it seems to me to be somewhat impractical and questionably legal as a guideline, but what do I know?
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
As I understand it, those guidelines are recently amended, to be stronger safeguards than were in place previously. It's only recently, last couple of years, that the CofE has insisted that clergy cannot be the safeguarding officer for a parish.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
[ Shame for an historic diocese but maybe Chichester should be split between Portsmouth and a newly created diocese of, say, Lewes?
Brighton. Got some big emptyish tattyfilarious churches that would make lovely cathedrals.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Re +Peter Ball, here is the police press notice. You'll note that the term "bail", which appeared in some media reports yesterday, is not mentioned re +Peter Ball, nor is he named. His identification as the 80 year old man in the police press release is information in the public domain.
The need for caution re further comment remains, as does my request for understanding of the Ship's position.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
Mrs Hind was child protection officer in Chichester Diocese when +John Hind was Bishop of Europe. When he moved so did she to avoid exactly that sort of conflict of interest. There was some period of overlap, IIRC, but unless one thinks that women should resign their jobs forthwith when their husbands are appointed Diocesan Bishop she can hardly be blamed for waiting a reasonable amount of time for a sideways move to become available.
Yes, I do think they should, if her husband happens to become the bishop of the diocese she was already working in. He might have gone to a different diocese, and then she could have stayed put (difficulties in living arrangements aside). But in this case there was a considerable conflict of interest and lack of impartiality, which should have been addressed asap, and doesn't appear to have been. Otherwise it looks a bit like the safeguarding of children in Chichester Diocese coming second place to people's job prospects.
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