Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Sparkling Poppies
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Interestingly this subject was aired on the Radio 2 dinner-time slot . It was a fairly well balanced debate as to whether people felt they were being 'bullied' into wearing poppies this year. The term 'poppy fascism' was also used . That's one I heard on the Ship all of 2 years ago, so the rising tension over poppy wearing appears to have gone mainstream .
One caller said he annually put £10 in the British Legion fund but chose not wear a poppy . While out shopping he bought some flowers for his wife, the young cashier made a jibe that went -- "£15 for for flowers yet too tight to buy a poppy". Another caller said we should all just "man-up", wear a poppy and show support for our boys on the front-line.
I fully expect, next year, to be handed a white feather for opening not wearing a poppy 10 days before Remembrance Sunday.
-------------------- Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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snowgoose
Silly goose
# 4394
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Posted
How is wearing a sparkly poppy any worse than wearing one of these?
-------------------- Lord, what can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the Reaper Man? --Terry Pratchett
Save a Siamese!
Posts: 3868 | From: Tidewater Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Right, there has been a history of the Red Poppy being seen as pro-militarism and among many a distrust of militarism stemming right back to the first world war.
Militarism in this sense is not outright pacificism but the glorification of military and war. A person who holds that having a well trained, professional army is a necessary evil to be used as a last resort is not guilty of militarism.
Those who build romantic notions of war and the nature of soldiers, who think that it is good to flex our military muscle and that there is something sexy about the military or something that means unlike other institution such as the Health Service the military should be above criticism are guilty of Militarism.
This group tend to rise in the years before war. You hear the hollowness of where that can lead in Wilfrid Owen's Poem Dulce and Decorum est. So when wearing the red poppy comes about supporting our boys and the big, the brighter the more support you are giving, I suspect a fair few start to feel sick as we are once again into "Dulce and Decorum" discourse. In that war is becoming devoid of its reality (a dirty expensive engagement nations should do their utmost to avoid) and becoming about sentiment.
Jengie
-------------------- "To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
The electronic signs at a major regional shopping centre near us were yesterday asking people to turn off their mobile phones for the 11 am silence. Not that many years ago - it may have been the 2008, 90th year, observation, shops and shopping centres dimmed their lights and cash registers stopped at 11.
The major observations here remain on Anzac Day, a public holiday and with almost all shops closed during the morning. When we were children, all shops and service (ie gas or petrol) stations were closed all day.
-------------------- Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Sleepwalker
Shipmate
# 15343
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Posted
I have been wearing a red poppy from the British Legion in the run up to Remembrance Day every year since I was old enough to do so and I am very comfortable with doing so. It is a good thing to remember those who have given their lives when called up to do so as it is the ultimate sacrifice. I think that the reason poppy wearing has become popular again (I remember a time when it was not, and indeed when there was discussion about whether to abandon remembrance day entirely) is simply because we have been enduring war for the last 10 years or so. People have been reminded not by wearing a red poppy or by attending a service but by the reality of war itself of the sacrifice and terrible destruction of war. I do not understand why some people appear to think that wearing a red poppy is synonymous with militarism. The red poppy has always been an emblem of remembrance only. That is how it remains today.
Posts: 267 | From: somewhere other than here | Registered: Dec 2009
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
For me, I am uncomfortable with red poppies because they only remember military death in wars - obviously sad, but what about civilian deaths? What about the deaths of pacifists who contributed to the war effort in non-combative roles, eg down the mines? What about those on the 'enemy' side who died? As a Christian I am also uncomfortable with the nationalism poppy-wearing brings out. God is the God of all nations, even 'enemy' nations.
I also think a pardon for Alan Turing would be worth far more than any amount of poppy-wearing.
I think remembrance should be private and not turned into public spectacle, so November 11th is the Feast of St Martin to me, and within that remembering Armistice Day (St Martin being patron saint of both soldiers and pacifists). Not the modern exploitation of the war dead and injured by capitalism (government relying on charities to care for injured soldiers and their families) and warmongers. That is what Remembrance Sunday has become to me, sadly.
-------------------- Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
I had no idea before reading this thread that that the Peace Pledge Union was still in existence, assuming that it had gone the same way as its pre-war wrongheaded contemporaries which are now historical curiosities, such as the Left Book Club
Given the PPU's appalling record of pro-Nazi appeasement during the 1930s, it must have the hide of a rhinceros.
At least other champions of appeasement, such as The Times, swung behind the anti-Nazi struggle after 1939, but the PPU remained pacifist throughout WWII.
The only honorable PPU members were those such as Siegfried Sassoon whose firsthand experience of conflict had won them the right for their opinions to be respected.
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
Wearing a poppy (red) is how we as a community show respect to all the men & women who lost their lives all the way from 1914 to 2012. Is it saying we are pro war ? Not in the least It is showing honor to people who made the ultimate sacrifice for freedom, to those who came home but part of them is still out there . Should we end Rememberance day ? Not likely we need to remember what others have and are doing to keep us free. And most of the time keeping people free may mean doing some things that most of us would not like happening. I think all politicans should make a tour of the war cemeteries in France & Belguim . Those rows of markers should convince ANY politician that war should be the last club out of the bag. To the familes of those who served and never made it home Thank you To those who served and made it home also thank you .
-------------------- "He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I wear a poppy because I'm anti-war.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kaplan Corday: I had no idea before reading this thread that that the Peace Pledge Union was still in existence, assuming that it had gone the same way as its pre-war wrongheaded contemporaries which are now historical curiosities, such as the Left Book Club
Given the PPU's appalling record of pro-Nazi appeasement during the 1930s, it must have the hide of a rhinceros.
At least other champions of appeasement, such as The Times, swung behind the anti-Nazi struggle after 1939, but the PPU remained pacifist throughout WWII.
The only honorable PPU members were those such as Siegfried Sassoon whose firsthand experience of conflict had won them the right for their opinions to be respected.
I'm a Peace Pledge signatory, though not a PPU member since moving overseas. I didn't appease the Nazis in the 1930's (75 years ago), being only 43 now. Do I have to go to war myself before I can take a pacifist stance? Surely there is honour in standing by ones principles?
-------------------- I've started blogging. I don't promise you'll find anything to interest you at uncleconrad
Posts: 946 | From: Mount Fairy, NSW | Registered: Jun 2007
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Jade, here the civilian deaths also have a memorial and a wreath laid. It's not necessarily that only the military deaths are remembered.
-------------------- Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I was in Sainsbury's (supermarket) at 11 am this morning and the 2 minutes' silence was observed. It was very moving to have the whole supermarket fall silent, except for the plaintive calls of 'unexpected item in bagging area. Do you wish to continue?', which rather spoiled the moment.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456
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Posted
Stores are all closed here today. Church service times have been changed too.
-------------------- Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!
Posts: 2468 | From: Truly Canadian | Registered: May 2006
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SyNoddy
Shipmate
# 17009
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Posted
I attended the launch of our local Poppy Appeal in a secondary school (11-16yrs). Veterans spent the day talking to youngsters about their experience of war and conflict, others talked about visiting the WWI trenches and work researching the names on local war memorials, a local adult choir led a service of commemoration during which pupils read poems, danced and performed dramas inspired by what they had heard. This all took place in mid October. IMHO non of this glorified war but certainly educated the youngsters about the terrible price of war and the importance of avoiding armed conflict whenever possible. The poppies have been on sale from then on. I bought poppies for myself and family members but have only worn mine today. I avoided the larger fabric version as I felt that a 'showy' poppy was inappropriate. Had I personally lost a loved one in a conflict I might well feel differently but I dont feel glamour sits well with the sacrifice made by others unknown to me.
Posts: 53 | From: Somewhere near the Middle | Registered: Mar 2012
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
I don't wear a poppy because the money here goes to the Legion, which until recently, has been a bit of a wingnut place.
My father-in-law fought in WWII but had the bad timing to do so for one of the Baltic nations before it got taken over. He somehow made it to Canada. But, the legion never let him in.
Anyhoo.......11 am in 2 minutes.
-------------------- I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kaplan Corday: I had no idea before reading this thread that that the Peace Pledge Union was still in existence, assuming that it had gone the same way as its pre-war wrongheaded contemporaries which are now historical curiosities, such as the Left Book Club
Given the PPU's appalling record of pro-Nazi appeasement during the 1930s, it must have the hide of a rhinceros.
Utter drivel. Protesting against war is not to appease anyone.
quote: At least other champions of appeasement, such as The Times, swung behind the anti-Nazi struggle after 1939, but the PPU remained pacifist throughout WWII.
The only honorable PPU members were those such as Siegfried Sassoon whose firsthand experience of conflict had won them the right for their opinions to be respected.
Herein is the problem: you cannot protest war without someone complaining that you're somehow supporting the enemy.
I don't wear poppies, I don't have minutes of silence, I don't give money to service charities. I don't call soldiers heroes.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of WW2, the fact is that the memory of a win against tyranny is used as a drum to support any colonial and post-colonial war that our leaders decide is necessary.
Not my war, not my poppy, not my responsibility.
-------------------- "..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?” "..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
I didn't attend Church this morning . Instead just flicked the TV on at 10.45 am to catch the 2 min silence at the Cenotaph.
I came in on what looked like a roll-call of the war dead from Afghanistan/Iraq . Just a rolling list of names and ages, followed the band playing Elgar's Nimrod .
Oh my, those tears started falling . Can't explain why.
-------------------- Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by rolyn: I didn't attend Church this morning . Instead just flicked the TV on at 10.45 am to catch the 2 min silence at the Cenotaph.
I came in on what looked like a roll-call of the war dead from Afghanistan/Iraq . Just a rolling list of names and ages, followed the band playing Elgar's Nimrod .
Oh my, those tears started falling . Can't explain why.
The cynic in me says it's because that's the intent. To drown anger at the waste and horror of war in tears of patriotic sentiment.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Hostly Tudor Bonnet
Fuzzipeg, commandment 7 states: don't post illegal material. This includes violating copyright. Please quote & link - I have edited your post to do this.
/Hostly Tudor Bonnet
Doublethink Purgatory Host
-------------------- All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet: quote: Originally posted by rolyn: I didn't attend Church this morning . Instead just flicked the TV on at 10.45 am to catch the 2 min silence at the Cenotaph.
I came in on what looked like a roll-call of the war dead from Afghanistan/Iraq . Just a rolling list of names and ages, followed the band playing Elgar's Nimrod .
Oh my, those tears started falling . Can't explain why.
The cynic in me says it's because that's the intent. To drown anger at the waste and horror of war in tears of patriotic sentiment.
Really?! You seriously think the reading of those names out loud is to glorify war?
You have to get out a bit and listen to some families of dead vets. Might provide you with a bit of perspective.
-------------------- I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by the long ranger: Protesting against war is not to appease anyone.
During the 1930s an influential section of the PPU went far beyond "protesting against war" and called for Hitler to be given control of a considerable portion of mainland Europe.
quote: Herein is the problem: you cannot protest war without someone complaining that you're somehow supporting the enemy.
George Orwell pointed out in his Notes On Nationalism the "problem" that there was in fact an overlap in membership between the PPU and the British Union of Fascists.
quote: I don't wear poppies, I don't have minutes of silence, I don't give money to service charities. I don't call soldiers heroes.
Guess you show them.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kaplan Corday: quote: Originally posted by the long ranger: Protesting against war is not to appease anyone.
During the 1930s an influential section of the PPU went far beyond "protesting against war" and called for Hitler to be given control of a considerable portion of mainland Europe.
I'd be pleased to read a reference for that, please.
quote: quote: Herein is the problem: you cannot protest war without someone complaining that you're somehow supporting the enemy.
George Orwell pointed out in his Notes On Nationalism the "problem" that there was in fact an overlap in membership between the PPU and the British Union of Fascists.
Again, show me some scholarly research on that.
quote: quote: I don't wear poppies, I don't have minutes of silence, I don't give money to service charities. I don't call soldiers heroes.
Guess you show them.
What is that supposed to mean?
-------------------- "..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?” "..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Before this thread dies the death (and it is bound to return next year - it always has, in some shape of form, since I've been on here): to those of you who oppose us white poppy wearers and have notions of Remembrance Day as a wish to end war and to remember all those killed, and who co-opt the red poppy for this purpose, against what the British Legion stand for: quote: At 11am on the 11th day of the 11th month, the nation will pause.
We will fall silent and take two minutes to reflect on the sacrifice of our brave Service men and women from conflicts past and present
their official view.
Note the 'our' - no mention of 'enemy' deaths nor of civilian deaths.
That is why I still oppose Remembrance Sunday and the Christian veneers that seek to justify it.
The two Sundays in the year when i wish i weren't in church are this and mothering Sunday. (And Holy Family comes a close third)
[Fixed link, DT, Purgatory Host] [ 12. November 2012, 19:13: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer: You have to get out a bit and listen to some families of dead vets. Might provide you with a bit of perspective.
British soldiers aren't the only ones who die in these conflicts. When the names of the Afghan civilians they've killed are read out too, then I'll believe it's about remembering the dead. I have every sympathy for those who lose loved ones, I just don't like the emotional manipulation that accompanies Remembrance Day.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet: [QUOTE] The cynic in me says it's because that's the intent. To drown anger at the waste and horror of war in tears of patriotic sentiment.
And the cynic in me today might agree with that view . Were it not that the emotion I experienced yesterday , and that which the Wootton Bassett gatherings experienced , seems to be more than the watery-eyed patriotism , it is an actual *Something*
That *something* is what enabled Britain to keep Hitler out , and it is the same thing which has enabled us to challenge today's threats.
War is horror, war is waste . Alas this fact alone does not prevent it . If it did, then the blood-bath of 1914-18 really would have ended all wars.
-------------------- Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by the long ranger: I'd be pleased to read a reference for that, please.
The most convenient is the Wikipedia article on the PPU, which quotes sources.
If you think you know better, than perhaps you could attempt to change the article.
quote: Again, show me some scholarly research on that.
I have provided you with the Orwell source, which I believe to be true because I happen to trust Orwell; because he was intimately involved in the left-wing politics of the time and knew what he was talking about; and because, to the best of my knowledge, no-one in the sixty-seven years since he wrote the essay has succeeded in refuting it.
If you can do so, I would be interested to see your evidence.
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kaplan Corday: I have provided you with the Orwell source, which I believe to be true because I happen to trust Orwell; because he was intimately involved in the left-wing politics of the time and knew what he was talking about; and because, to the best of my knowledge, no-one in the sixty-seven years since he wrote the essay has succeeded in refuting it.
If you can do so, I would be interested to see your evidence.
Right - so you've provided no sources at all for your unfounded assertion.
Some members of the British Union of Fascists joined the PPU, respected historians say this was a 'small number'. Some people, including Orwell complained about the stance of Peace News.
That's it. Hardly a ringing endorsement of your teeth gnashing about the appeasement of the PPU.
-------------------- "..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?” "..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Will the Dalai Lama be accused in later decades of appeasement because he and his government and a handful of monks refused to fight alongside the small groups of resistance in Tibet in 1959 and because the Chinese government sill insists that he did sign the seventeen point agreement?
-------------------- 'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe' Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by the long ranger: the appeasement of the PPU.
The PPU in the 1930s followed a policy of appeasement, supported Chamberlain at Munich, and the editor of its official publication wanted to surrender to Hitler vast areas of continental Europe.
Those are not my opinions, they are historical facts.
You are either in denial over the PPU's appeasement, or your attitude is that of Carroll's Humpty Dumpty, to whom words meant what he chose them to mean. [ 13. November 2012, 10:17: Message edited by: Kaplan Corday ]
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kaplan Corday: ]The PPU in the 1930s followed a policy of appeasement, supported Chamberlain at Munich, and the editor of its official publication wanted to surrender to Hitler vast areas of continental Europe.
Those are not my opinions, they are historical facts.
You are either in denial over the PPU's appeasement, or your attitude is that of Carroll's Humpty Dumpty, to whom words meant what he chose them to mean.
Excuse me, asking for a reference is not a suggestion that what you are saying is lies, it is a request to see where you get your information from.
It looks like you only get it from wikipedia. In which case I say 'bullshit'.
-------------------- "..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?” "..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
Let me help you out: Mark Gilbert's Pacifist Attitudes to Nazi Germany, 1936-45 in the Journal of Contemporary History from 1992 is a demolition of the PPU and Peace News in the period.
Fascinating.
-------------------- "..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?” "..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
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the famous rachel
Shipmate
# 1258
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...: Those sparkly poppies on the costumes for Strictly Come Dancing were silly, and I would bet that they were made by the costume department and no money went to the Royal British Legion, which is the point of those poppies. It's also silly because they're broadcasting the next show this Saturday, 10th November, so poppies will no doubt be worn again.
I'm not terribly keen on the sparkly poppies, but the British Legion seem to claim the ones on Strictly Come Dancing as their own .
On a separate note, I'm a little uncomfortable with the attitude on this thread that it's wrong to remember service personnel without simultaneously remembering civilian war dead etc. Whatever we think about a particular war, members of the armed forces have chosen to take on a job where they know they may have to risk their lives to defend the rest of us. Unless you're a strict pacafist (and I know some people here are), I think a certain amount of additional respect is due to our soldiers.
You may not agree with the Afghanistan war, but it is conceivable that those currently in the armed forces now will be in the front line defending us against a genuine threat to our way of life, and indeed lives, in the future. Acknowledging those who have already lost our lives in our armed forces, in whatever context, thus strikes me as appropriate. They chose to take the risk that they would have to die defending us. This lead them to die in a different kind of conflict, but that doesn't denigrate the original choice.
The tradition of wearing red poppies may not acknowledge civilian casualties, and perhaps we should do something else special to acknowledge them, but that doesn't make it wrong in and of itself. Anything we do to acknowledge the suffering of one group necessarily doesn't address everyone who suffers.
Best wishes,
Rachel.
-------------------- A shrivelled appendix to the body of Christ.
Posts: 912 | From: In the lab. | Registered: Aug 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by the famous rachel: I'm a little uncomfortable with the attitude on this thread that it's wrong to remember service personnel without simultaneously remembering civilian war dead etc. Whatever we think about a particular war, members of the armed forces have chosen to take on a job where they know they may have to risk their lives to defend the rest of us.
Most had no choice. They were conscripts.
-------------------- My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/ My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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the famous rachel
Shipmate
# 1258
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by leo: Most had no choice. They were conscripts.
Sorry - maybe I was unclear. I was addressing attitudes expressed concerning soldiers who have died recently in Afghanistan for example, more than those who died in the world wars.
Best wishes,
Rachel.
-------------------- A shrivelled appendix to the body of Christ.
Posts: 912 | From: In the lab. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
I wonder if the increased observance of Remembrance Sunday is because those involved in it are now passing on. There are few servicemen left now. Even those who remembered the war as children are now elderly: my parents can *just* remember the War; they are well past 70.
Because those people are now passing from us, we are making an extra effort to remember.
It is interesting to note that in these parts observance of Anzac Day (which is the equivalent here of Remembrance Sunday) has very much increased over the last 20 years, despite this country not being heavily involved in any wars.
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
I remember when it was considered comical for old men to stop for the two minute silence (usually to the great inconvenience of those around them), as portrayed by comedians like Dick Emery as Lampwick, or Alf Garnett. It was a thing that old people did and was nothing to do with modern life. That's changed over the last 15 years or so, certainly since 9/11 and the current round of Middle Eastern wars.
-------------------- Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
What is actually interesting is irc just after the invasion of Iraq, it was actually quite hard to get hold of a poppy. I seem to recall one year not wearing my white one as I did not have a red one as well despite being on the look out for several weeks.
Jengie
-------------------- "To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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