homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Police Commissioners (Page 2)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Police Commissioners
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

 - Posted      Profile for Jay-Emm     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
Let's just hope that tomorrow morning you don't wake up to find that your local domestic violence and anti-hate crime units haven't been disbanded and the officers reassinged to put together a prosecution of Tony Blair for treason for signing the Lisbon Treaty.

…which was my main reason for voting. And I want to be able to say to whoever is elected either "it wasn't you I voted for - so not in my name", or "I voted for you, so pull your socks up and get on with the job"
I decided to go for it for a similar reason, I don't know if the UKIP was nutty UKIP or just odd. But it really was a very partially informed decision tbh on the website (thanks Barnabus62) they all looked like used car salesmen.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
In my rather unscientific circus poll, of 12 people we currently have: 7 pissed off, 1 indifferent, 1 not in an area with an election. 3 happy to vote. Of the pissed off category, only 1 voted and they voted independent whilst the rest split evenly between spoiled their ballot or didn't vote.

All the happy voters, voted for party candidates.

If we get under 20% turnout, a lot of spoiled ballots and mostly non-party affiliated PCCs I will claim Nate Silver's crown.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313

 - Posted      Profile for Heavenly Anarchist   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm in the pissed off category as I don't think this should be a political role. I decided to vote Labour as a protest vote, I usually vote Lib Dem here (and probably will continue in other elections as the local party is good and our Lib Dem MP is very lefty and usually votes against the government). Obviously by voting Labour I have myself politicised it but felt it was the best opportunity to fight the changes that are taking place.

--------------------
'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop

Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I wrote on my paper "this is not the way to run the police". I do not like doing this, but I felt that this protest was the best I could do. I can only hope that the proportion of spoiled votes may serve to undermine the authority of the person elected, and help to abandon this farce.

The polling station is just down our road, so I do get a sense of how busy it is. The answer seems to be - as busy as the Marie Celeste. I think I hit the rush time, as there was 2 of us in the station at the same time. There were 6 officials there, at whatever cost.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917

 - Posted      Profile for Starbug   Email Starbug   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I didn't vote and neither did Mr S. I feel vaguely guilty for not voting, because I normally do. However, none of the candidates has even bothered to shove a leaflet through our letterbox.

Why should everyone have to look up the candidates online? There are many, many people who don't have web access and this setup leaves a proportion of the country disenfranchised. It's poorly thought-out and badly implemented.

[ 15. November 2012, 19:38: Message edited by: Starbug ]

--------------------
“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor

Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think the lack of mail out is to do with budgets, we are used to campaigns the parties run funded very heavily. But yes I agree the assumption of IT ease for the whole electorate is a problem.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292

 - Posted      Profile for Anglican't   Email Anglican't   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I believe doing that will politicise the police - I think that is dangerous.

Do you not think the police is already politicised?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Somewhat, I don't want to make it worse.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626

 - Posted      Profile for St Everild   Email St Everild   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I voted at about 9 pm. I was the 59th voter out of a possible 900...what a waste of money.
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497

 - Posted      Profile for lowlands_boy   Email lowlands_boy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Just a query for the people who've said "no point voting cos we always return party X around here". Is that definitely the case? Surely the police comissioner's area is substantially larger than that for any single MPs constituency. It seems unlikely that any one police area has got a uniform set of MPs....

--------------------
I thought I should update my signature line....

Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think if there is a turn out below 10%they should ditch the posts but give the winning candidate the opportunity to chair the local police authority.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497

 - Posted      Profile for lowlands_boy   Email lowlands_boy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
In the end, I spoiled my paper. They were shutting the polling station when I got there and there was only one of the four booths that still had a pencil in it. It was facing the desk so the administrator must have been able to tell I was writing on it and not just voting. I was polite enough though....

ETA - definitely less than 100 people had voted.

[ 15. November 2012, 21:03: Message edited by: lowlands_boy ]

--------------------
I thought I should update my signature line....

Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

 - Posted      Profile for Curiosity killed ...   Email Curiosity killed ...   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Yeah, really - universal blue last election here, one small patch of gold. Pretty much true blue normally.

--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Uriel
Shipmate
# 2248

 - Posted      Profile for Uriel   Email Uriel   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've just come back from 15 hours of running a polling station, and it was the quietest day of voting I've seen. Still, I got paid for reading a book, which can't be bad. Turnout is difficult to call for my patch as there are quite a few postal voters, but throughout the day there were only 75 voters, which is by far the lowest we've ever had. IMHO if there had to be a vote it should have been delayed until May 2013 and combined with the many local Council elections, which would have saved costs and increased turnout. By rushing the PCC elections we may have an extra 6 months of a Commissioner, but they will lack a credible mandate.

The reason there was so little information about is that the government decided to cut the £5million budget it usually puts into elections to pay for candidates to have a free mailshot via the Royal Mail. So no one really knew who they were voting for, unless they were motivated enough to research it online.

Posts: 687 | From: Somerset, UK | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
SyNoddy
Shipmate
# 17009

 - Posted      Profile for SyNoddy     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've also been staffing a polling station since 6:30am (7:00 - 22:00) today. The turn out was near enough 15% but almost universally the comments were anti elected police commissioners. The whole election must have cost a packet. [Confused]
Posts: 53 | From: Somewhere near the Middle | Registered: Mar 2012  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

 - Posted      Profile for Curiosity killed ...   Email Curiosity killed ...   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Official turnout for my district, normal parliamentary constituency, is 10.34% The full figures haven't turned up on Twitter yet. I think staying away was the right thing to do.

--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Manchester had a turn out for the PCC election of 13.5%

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
And in our poll:
quote:
  • Happy to vote - voted for a party candidate 15% (4)
  • Happy to vote - voted for an independent candidate 0% (0)
  • Happy to vote in theory - forgot to vote 0% (0)
  • Pissed off - voted for a party candidate 19% (5)
  • Pissed off - voted for an independent candidate 19% (5)
  • Pissed off - spoiled my ballot on purpose 12% (3)
  • Pissed off - chose not to vote 19% (5)
  • Pissed off - forgot to vote 4% (1)
  • Indifferent to / unaware of election - did not vote 4% (1)
  • Did not have a ballot for a police commissioner in my area - did not vote 8% (2)


It appears that our unscientific polling is not far off [Smile] Especially given adjustment for the fact that two of sample would need to be excluded because they are outside the voting area.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757

 - Posted      Profile for Ricardus   Author's homepage   Email Ricardus   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I chose not to vote.

I am very impressed by the way so many posters on this thread are nonchalantly expressing the view that this voting lark is all very well for new-fangled organisations like the College of Cardinals but Not The Way We Do Things Here. The spirit of the Earl of Home has been abroad across the land stirring up Apathy in the UK. One might almost hear the flapping of his wings.
But the elected commissioners are replacing a body appointed and partially staffed by democratically elected councillors. So the choice isn't between voting and not voting, but between a quasi-presidential system and a quasi-parliamentary one.

ETA: it also seems to me that a body made up of elected councillors from different parties, as well as laymen, reflects a greater diversity of opinion and is therefore more representative than a single winner-takes-all figure.

[ 16. November 2012, 06:56: Message edited by: Ricardus ]

--------------------
Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
... the elected commissioners are replacing a body appointed and partially staffed by democratically elected councillors. So the choice isn't between voting and not voting, but between a quasi-presidential system and a quasi-parliamentary one.


When people vote for councillors they vote for people to run the council. I agree with you about the role of the commissioner being quasi-presidential but the current system is not quasi-parliamentary as the chair of the police authority is appointed by those nominated to the police authority by parties in the councils party, not be people who have been voted onto the police authority.

I detest nominee bodies and regard the European Commission is an extreme example of what happens when those who have power are not voted for directly. And I'm as pro-European as anyone on the Ship.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497

 - Posted      Profile for lowlands_boy   Email lowlands_boy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
This is surely the ultimate indictment on the process.

--------------------
I thought I should update my signature line....

Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206

 - Posted      Profile for Thurible   Email Thurible   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I voted, and for the Labour candidate because there was one and I'd struggle, as a member, to justify not voting for the party candidate.

I don't want PCCs; I don't want them overly politicised. But I don't want my parish council to be party political and it is. I don't want to be part of the EU but we are and so I vote in the European elections.

The right to vote is, to my mind, far too important to ever justify not voting.

Thurible

--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497

 - Posted      Profile for lowlands_boy   Email lowlands_boy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
I voted, and for the Labour candidate because there was one and I'd struggle, as a member, to justify not voting for the party candidate.

I don't want PCCs; I don't want them overly politicised. But I don't want my parish council to be party political and it is. I don't want to be part of the EU but we are and so I vote in the European elections.

The right to vote is, to my mind, far too important to ever justify not voting.

Thurible

I agree - which is why in this case there should have been a "no to PCC" option on the ballot paper. Or a separate ballot on the question first.

Turnout is averaging around 15%, so you can win outright on first preference votes on less than 10% of the electorate's say so. That's not much of a mandate really. For something that's actually a structural change in an important issue, there should have been a threshold based on the size of the overall electorate.

--------------------
I thought I should update my signature line....

Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206

 - Posted      Profile for Thurible   Email Thurible   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:

Turnout is averaging around 15%, so you can win outright on first preference votes on less than 10% of the electorate's say so. That's not much of a mandate really.

I struggle with this. It's the same argument used to question the legitimacy of a strike when only X% have voted. People all have the opportunity to vote and, if they can't be arsed to (or want to come up with self-justificatory reasons why they're not going to), that's their problem.

Thurible

--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497

 - Posted      Profile for lowlands_boy   Email lowlands_boy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
In general I'd agree, but in this case many people felt they should not vote because they didn't agree with the whole concept - which is not just apathy. I also think it's important to vote which is why I spoiled the paper (for the first time ever).

I would have much preferred to have a "no PCC in this area" option as a proper democratic choice. Now my spoiled paper won't be distinguished between

1. People who weren't arsed
2. People who were arsed but really wanted to say "no" to the whole thing
3. People who wanted to vote but cocked it up because the paper was very unusual (by English standards anyway)

Several areas have indicated spoiled papers in around 4% of votes cast. Does anybody know how many papers are usually spoiled? It can't normally be that high can it?

--------------------
I thought I should update my signature line....

Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

 - Posted      Profile for Marvin the Martian     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
For something that's actually a structural change in an important issue, there should have been a threshold based on the size of the overall electorate.

I don't see why a quorum (say, 50% turnout) shouldn't apply to every election. If not enough people are interested in what's being voted for, then IMO it shouldn't happen.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206

 - Posted      Profile for Thurible   Email Thurible   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'd just make voting compulsory - with a "none of the above" option.

Thurible

--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
lowlands_boy
Shipmate
# 12497

 - Posted      Profile for lowlands_boy   Email lowlands_boy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Some interesting stats on the BBC

quote:
In Hampshire there were 5,595 spoilt ballots of 211,886 cast, the BBC politics reporter for South of England Peter Henley says. Of those, 1,904 had two marks in first column, 1,900 were blank, 1,733 uncertain, 51 wrote name.
So maybe I will get to find out how special my choice of spoiling the paper was. Not that it was at all innovative.

--------------------
I thought I should update my signature line....

Posts: 836 | From: North West UK | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

 - Posted      Profile for Marvin the Martian     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
I'd just make voting compulsory - with a "none of the above" option.

I don't agree, because I think it's important to leave people the freedom to choose not to engage with the process if that's what they want.

ETA: to put it another way, "staying at home" is the "none of the above" option.

[ 16. November 2012, 14:09: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

 - Posted      Profile for balaam   Author's homepage   Email balaam   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The new way of spoiling a ballot paper is to photograph it and publish it online. There is a collection of spoilt paper pictures at http://pccspoil.tumblr.com/ (not my site.) Slow upload.

Drawing a penis on the paper is neither big nor clever though. (I like the one with the name Sam Vimes added [Big Grin] )

--------------------
Last ever sig ...

blog

Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

 - Posted      Profile for Marvin the Martian     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
The new way of spoiling a ballot paper is to photograph it and publish it online. There is a collection of spoilt paper pictures at http://pccspoil.tumblr.com/ (not my site.) Slow upload.

I love the one that says "The answer is never 'more politicians'".

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206

 - Posted      Profile for Thurible   Email Thurible   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:


ETA: to put it another way, "staying at home" is the "none of the above" option.

No, it's the "can't be arsed" option.

Thurible

--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

 - Posted      Profile for la vie en rouge     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
The new way of spoiling a ballot paper is to photograph it and publish it online. There is a collection of spoilt paper pictures at http://pccspoil.tumblr.com/ (not my site.) Slow upload.

I love the one that says "The answer is never 'more politicians'".
I can't decide if I prefer the one that says "I'm not paying someone £28000 to do bugger all" or the one that's been coloured in a with a crayon and covered with My Little Pony stickers. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Rent my holiday home in the South of France

Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

 - Posted      Profile for Marvin the Martian     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Which is functionally the same thing. Staying at home means you don't want to vote for any of the candidates. Crossing the "none of the above" box also means you don't want to vote for any of the candidates. Same thing.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

 - Posted      Profile for leo   Author's homepage   Email leo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It is not the same thing because a spoiled ballot paper counts towards the turnout. Not voting does not.

This is why I made a fuss at the polling station by asking ONLY for the mayoral ballot paper.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:
This is surely the ultimate indictment on the process.

That goes some way to explaining how an Independent got in, though how independent a former head of the force's CID branch remains to be seen. The Bettws ward is post-war, good quality council housing (mostly sold-off now) and used to be solid Labour, but Welsh Labour and their support have got so complacent that a decent campaign by A N Other gets them elected instead.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917

 - Posted      Profile for Eigon   Author's homepage   Email Eigon   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Around here, the turnout was 17.1%, and the Conservative got in. 722 people (of whom I was one) spoiled their ballot papers.
There was a rather fun letter in the local paper this week suggesting that people should vote for the Italian detective Montalbano (I wish I'd thought of Sam Vimes, as mentioned above!)

--------------------
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626

 - Posted      Profile for St Everild   Email St Everild   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Less than 12% turnout in my neck of the woods...and the Conservative got in. (There were only 2 candidates, 1 Con and the other Lab.
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313

 - Posted      Profile for Heavenly Anarchist   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Conservatives in here, hardly a surprise as Cambridge itself is a little Liberal oasis in a sea of blue. The next general election might be fun though, as Cambridge used to be Labour.

--------------------
'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop

Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Sleepwalker
Shipmate
# 15343

 - Posted      Profile for Sleepwalker     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Uriel:
IMHO if there had to be a vote it should have been delayed until May 2013 and combined with the many local Council elections, which would have saved costs and increased turnout.

That's when the Tories wanted to hold the vote but the LibDembs refused to agree and wanted the vote held separately.
Posts: 267 | From: somewhere other than here | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

 - Posted      Profile for leo   Author's homepage   Email leo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I had to kick up a fuss at the polling station.

I stated that I did not want the police commissioner voting form, only the mayoral one.

If I took the police one, it would count as a spoilt paper, regardless of what i did with it. I did not want to contribute to the turnout figures.

They had to contact some chief person to discover that I was within my rights.

I have written to the returning officer to complain about the lack of training of polling station staff.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have emailed the electoral commission saying I hear they are doing a review into the election, and suggesting they do a survey to see how many people didn't vote because they didn't want the election in the first place.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992

 - Posted      Profile for Adeodatus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Good idea, Doublethink - I'll follow your example. After much thought, I went for the no-vote option rather than the spoilt-paper option. In my area, the only candidates were from the major political parties, which means an inevitable politicising of the police service. And I'm not giving my vote to that.

I'm with Thurible on this one. Really the only way that voting has a future in this country is to make it compulsory with a 'none of the above' option - and make 'none of the above' binding. In other words, make it a 'RON' - re-open nominations. And keep doing it until the people have a candidate they're willing to elect.

--------------------
"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'd be pro that - with the Australian system of doing it on a Saturday and making a bit of a party of it.

I also think that basically what they should have done, if they wanted to introduce this so much - was hold referenda on its introduction, as they did for directly elected mayors. Probably to be held at the same time as the council elections.

I think they didn't do it, because the mayoral referenda went so badly for them.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322

 - Posted      Profile for Enoch   Email Enoch   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by lowlands_boy:

Turnout is averaging around 15%, so you can win outright on first preference votes on less than 10% of the electorate's say so. That's not much of a mandate really.

I struggle with this. It's the same argument used to question the legitimacy of a strike when only X% have voted. People all have the opportunity to vote and, if they can't be arsed to (or want to come up with self-justificatory reasons why they're not going to), that's their problem.

Thurible

Thurible, I really don't agree with you on that one. However self-evident we may think our cause is, it's always up to those who advocate change, or doing something, to make the case for it. No one can tell whether those that don't vote 'can't be arsed' or are saying 'no'. But even 'can't be arsed' means 'you haven't persuaded me'.

I think there are very, very strong arguments in favour of having a minimum threshold. If less than x% vote (which should never be less than 50% and should sometimes be 66% or 75%) that should be taken as 'no' irrespective of the split between the votes of those that actually did vote.


I don't agree with Leo's view that having got to the polling station, he thought he was making more of a statement by trying to refuse to be counted at all, rather than spoiling his ballot paper. By not being counted, he can't be distinguished from the 'can't be arsed's. By spoiling his paper, he's much more explicitly saying 'no'. Even so, I can see where he's coming from.

--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

 - Posted      Profile for Jay-Emm     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
from the Guardian
The Conservative candidate Angus Macpherson became the first police commissioner in Wiltshire on a turnout of just 15.3% – of which 3.3%* (2,682) were invalid.

*The % of % is a bit confusing
I think it's 84% non-voting, 0.5% spoilt, 5% Con, 3% Lab, 7% Other
So it's a significant proportion making the active effort.

Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
By contrast in a general election its usually less than 0.5% I think.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bene Gesserit
Shipmate
# 14718

 - Posted      Profile for Bene Gesserit   Email Bene Gesserit   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Both I and my Other Half spoiled our ballot papers with the message that the new posts should not exist.

I do wish we had been imaginative enough to have written Sam Vimes' name on the papers!

--------------------
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus

Posts: 405 | From: Flatlands of the East | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've got something for you who didn't vote, spoilt your papers and all the rest.

Like it or not there are now Police and Crime Commissioners in England and Wales. If you aren't happy with policing, go to your Police and Crime Panel, who holds the PCC to account, and that is true whether you voted or not. There is now a directly elected person to approve the policing plan and budget, hold the chief constable to account and hire & fire the chief constable as necessary, rather than some indirectly appointed councillor who isn't smart enough to chair key committees at the town hall.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Yeah, I use my MP for that - being as how they are directly elected an all - or alternatively talk to my local councilor. If I am really pissed off and want to "hold the police to account" I go to the IPCC.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools