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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Police Commissioners
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
In other news, the former appointed chair of the West Yorkshire Police Authority has been elected the new Police and Crime Commissioner.
The staff of the old Police authority will transfer to the PCC, leaving the new commissioner doing the same job that he did before. So the only difference is that the the same person doing the same job is now elected at great cost.
Well not the only difference.
The old salary £30,000. The new one £100,000. Bargain.
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
I didn't vote. Deliberately. I knew zilch about any of the candidates and the website didnt help.
I was minded to vote for the only Independent, since I object to the politicisation of the Police.
Good thing I stayed away. The only Independent was discovered by me after the event to be a member of the EDL.
The whole thing was a farce and a shambles IMO
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
The new West Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner, Mark Burns-Williamson spoke on Radio Leeds yesterday morning. Interview here, starts at 2 hours 6 minutes into the show. The bit where he talks about his salary, why he deserves an extra £70,000 a year, is just after 2 hours 16 minutes.
quote:
Burns-Williamson:
It will be me as the elected Police and Crime Commissioner directly accountable and clearly taking on much more of the strategic risk and decision making.
Good, that's clear then.
Interestingly this was said by the then Chair of the Association of Police Authorities:
quote:
However, we are disappointed that the SSRB has rejected the strong arguments in favour of performance related pay for these posts...
Whilst PCCs will face the ballot box once every four years, they will be the subject of few, if any effective checks in between election. We believe that a scheme of performance related pay for PCCs, to be awarded by the Commissioner's scrutiny watchdog - the Police and Crime Panel (PCP) - could provide both an effective check, and an appropriate assessment for the PCCs performance in between public polls."
His name? Mark Burns-Williamson.
Before the election he said pay should be performance related. After he's been elected he is struggling to justify the extra pay.
Vive la différence.
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Thanks for that link balaam and I think Mark Burns-Williamson is onto something, probably inadvertently!
He mentions that PCCs should receive higher pay because of the additional accountability but goes on to state that they should receive Performance Related Pay (PRP) too.
One of the problems in the public sector is that PRP really isn't commensurate with the responsibility and hardly reflects achievement of objectives. On the other hand, the basic salary and other terms and conditions often mean that what PRP there is available is not much of an incentive to perform really well (at my place of work it was 2.7% for the 10% rated 'outstanding', although senior civil servants receive up to 10% of salary).
It would make a lot more sense (to me at any rate) to recognise the altered structure and pay more than the £30,000 the predecessor's got, say to £50,000, but pay generous PRP so that if they do meet all their objectives they get a very handsome salary indeed, maybe in excess of the £100,000 mentioned.
YMMV, no doubt.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
When people vote for councillors they vote for people to run the council. I agree with you about the role of the commissioner being quasi-presidential but the current system is not quasi-parliamentary as the chair of the police authority is appointed by those nominated to the police authority by parties in the councils party, not be people who have been voted onto the police authority.
It's slightly forced but my analogy was
Parliament > Local council
Cabinet > Police authority
In the UK that doesn't quite work because the Cabinet is appointed by the Prime Minister rather than Parliament, but I think that is not always the case in Parliamentary systems that produce coalitions.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
How do you measure performance for PRP in a post where the profit for the year is not obvious, clear and what the business is about? I know people introduce all sorts of indicators, but then it's either objective, jumping hoops and ticking boxes, or subjective, pleasing ones boss. Since we elect the Police Commissioners and they are supposed to be accountable to us, logic would suggest an annual vote on how much we think they ought to get. Not only is that ludicrous, but it would cost more than the salary and what would the turnout be?
So what are the indicators?
- No. of crimes solved in the year? - that's the Chief Constable's job.
- No. of jobs privatised? - I hope not.
- No. of Chief Constables sacked? - !!!
There was a post I encountered a few years ago in the field of teenagers transitioning from school to work where one of the performance indicators was 'number of pregnancies'. Before you ask, this wasn't a fertility cult. The better score was the lower. But is some person from the Council really capable of going round behind school bikesheds and clubs tapping teenagers on the back and saying 'No' or dishing out condoms with 'I think you might need one of these'.
How on earth can it be reasonable to evaluate anyone on something over which they have no control?
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
How on earth can it be reasonable to evaluate anyone on something over which they have no control?
It happens all the time in schools.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
...and that's why I am no longer a teacher. I still have arbitrary deadlines and ludicrous performance targets, but I don't have to try and persuade other people to meet them...
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
How on earth can it be reasonable to evaluate anyone on something over which they have no control?
It happens all the time in schools.
That it's all too widespread doesn't mean that it's either reasonable or just. Well, that's what I think, anyway.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
To my surprise, I got a non-computer generated answer from the electoral commission:
quote:
Dear [Name Removed]
Thank you for contacting the Electoral Commission. We have a statutory role to report on these elections and while we are not planning a specific survey for why people didn't vote, we are collating the emails we receive which is currently a lot more insightful than any survey. We will take your comments into consideration when drafting the report
Many thanks,
[Name Remove]
So people clearly taking the time to engage in different ways I think.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Flossymole
Apprentice
# 17339
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Posted
I know it was a while ago, but can anyone remember the link for the on-line petition against the Police Commissioner ballot? People are asking me how to sign but I can no longer find it.
Posts: 43 | From: Derbyshire UK | Registered: Sep 2012
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The first thing that happened here, when the result was known, was that the chief constable resigned.
The commissioner who was elected declared herself to be an 'independent' but is,in fact, a libdem.
So much for keeping politics out of it.
Are you sure of that Leo? I voted for the same police area, and on my ballot paper there was a different expressly identified LibDem candidate who was not the person to whom you are referring.
I also don't think - if this is the case - we can condemn a person for having at some point in the past regularly voted for one party's candidates or even have been a rank and file member of one, if what they are saying is that they are not now tying themselves to that party's directions. After all we all know, and have been repeatedly reminded, that our directly elected Mayor was in the past a parliamentary candidate for one of the main parties. There've been accusations both as to whether he's still secretly linked to them or has betrayed them.
The big fiasco, as you and I and everyone else in this city also well know, is the fools of themselves another of our main party groups have made of themselves since the mayoral elections.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The first thing that happened here, when the result was known, was that the chief constable resigned.
The commissioner who was elected declared herself to be an 'independent' but is,in fact, a libdem.
So much for keeping politics out of it.
In the past the chair of the Police Authority was often a former councillor. As such they would usually have political party affiliations, which any chief constable would know about. The job hasn't suddenly become partisan, but the subject of a direct vote, more accountability and a higher salary.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The first thing that happened here, when the result was known, was that the chief constable resigned.
The commissioner who was elected declared herself to be an 'independent' but is,in fact, a libdem.
So much for keeping politics out of it.
Are you sure of that Leo? I voted for the same police area, and on my ballot paper there was a different expressly identified LibDem candidate who was not the person to whom you are referring.
Not entirely sure and I have recycled all the papers. But she stod as an independent and was later endorsed by the LibDem mayoral candidate.)
(As for the elected mayor, it seems that his membership of the Merchant Venturers is more salient than his Libdemery.)
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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