|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Martin PC Not suspension?
|
Trin
Shipmate
# 12100
|
Posted
Doublethink: You're annoying and unreadable so I'm going to disemvowel you! Ha ha!
Martin: Ha ha! This was Fun! PS. I found a way to circumvent your game!
Rook: That count's as a C6 violation and I'm looking for an excuse. Bye!
Community: Wtf?
Rook: Whatever, losers.
Posts: 442 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Did Martin break a rule? The translation is correct. See for yourselves. He did. I thought it was funny. I am not in a position of enforcing the rules. Rook is. Rules should apply across the board, with no exceptions for old hands, or favorites. Martin broke a rule that is a bedrock of making the Ship sail smoothly. Something had to happen.
This is what I used to decode Martin's post. I agree with RooK - what Martin said was a C6. If he'd had some morsy banter with Doublethink he'd not have been suspended imo.
Such is life on board.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
|
Posted
DT, thanks for the post with additional thoughts, something you didn't have to do.
--------------------
"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
passer
Indigo
# 13329
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
This is what I used to decode Martin's post. I agree with RooK - what Martin said was a C6. If he'd had some morsy banter with Doublethink he'd not have been suspended imo.
Such is life on board.
Your agreeing with RooK is commendable. Your analytical opinion is valuable. Your platitude is apposite.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trin:
Doublethink: You're annoying and unreadable so I'm going to disemvowel you! Ha ha!
Martin: Ha ha! This was Fun! PS. I found a way to circumvent your game!
Rook: That count's as a C6 violation and I'm looking for an excuse. Bye!
Community: Wtf?
Rook: Whatever, losers.
Pretty much how I see it.
Martin was the first person I argued with on SoF - in March 2005. Someone sent me a welcome PM with words to the effect "I see you're arguing with our Mr Incomprehensible". Which suggests to me that he had that established reputation seven and a half years ago. Why his posting style has suddenly become a conduct issue is utterly beyond me. He's been posting like that for years. Some people get it, some don't. If it's a deliberate affectation, then it carries its own punishment - Martin is read by fewer people, and less attentively by others, than he might have been.
Doublethink's malicious humour is one thing. That's the way Hell can work sometimes. It was a bit mean, a bit petty, and a bit funny, but within the established parameters in which Hell hosts are allowed to abuse their powers. RooK's use of it as a ground for suspending a member of this community spoils the joke. It now just looks like spitefulness. Please re-think the policy here.
--------------------
"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Some here seem to think that the "community" view is the same as the "admin" view. It isn't.
Martin is an old hand, he broke the rules, he knows well enough how to obey the rules as he is an old hand. Therefore he was suspended pdq. The more prodigous your posting and the longer you post the more quickly the rules are enforced. A relative newbie would get a warning before suspension. That is how the admin works here. This is true for all old hands and has nothing to do with the overall opinion of the community on these boards. Just ask Ken if you do not believe me!
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
It was not what Erin would have done. She might have reamed Martin a new asshole, she might have suspended him, but she wouldn't have goaded him and toyed with him in that way.
I don't think it's productive for anyone to try to determine the rights and wrongs of an action by posing the question "WWED?" and I don't think this is correct in any case. I can't be the only one who remembers The Atheist being goaded and toyed with in a very similar way.
Just as I had no time for The Atheist back in the day, I rarely bother to read Martin's contributions, because his tediously affected stream-of-consciousness schtick just isn't worth it. And to be honest, I can't honestly say his presence or absence on the boards would greatly bother me either way. I can't even say I was surprised to learn of his suspension after RooK's warning in DH. That doesn't make it right, though.
I find it very ironic that the discussion of an allegedly incomprehensible poster's suspension hinges on unclear communication. If the disemvowelling was playful, Martin's retorts in kind were entirely reasonable. If it was a hostly final warning, he was clearly asking for trouble. The fact that a casual observer would be unable to tell which it was suggests to me that this is an overreaction.
Usual caveats apply, not least (to paraphrase Wallace Sayre) that the disagreement here is so strong because the stakes are so small.
[Flesch Kincade Grade Level 9.40, if it matters]
--------------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
quote:
Originally posted by Trin:
Doublethink: You're annoying and unreadable so I'm going to disemvowel you! Ha ha!
Martin: Ha ha! This was Fun! PS. I found a way to circumvent your game!
Rook: That count's as a C6 violation and I'm looking for an excuse. Bye!
Community: Wtf?
Rook: Whatever, losers.
Pretty much how I see it.
Martin was the first person I argued with on SoF - in March 2005. Someone sent me a welcome PM with words to the effect "I see you're arguing with our Mr Incomprehensible". Which suggests to me that he had that established reputation seven and a half years ago. Why his posting style has suddenly become a conduct issue is utterly beyond me. He's been posting like that for years. Some people get it, some don't. If it's a deliberate affectation, then it carries its own punishment - Martin is read by fewer people, and less attentively by others, than he might have been.
Doublethink's malicious humour is one thing. That's the way Hell can work sometimes. It was a bit mean, a bit petty, and a bit funny, but within the established parameters in which Hell hosts are allowed to abuse their powers. RooK's use of it as a ground for suspending a member of this community spoils the joke. It now just looks like spitefulness. Please re-think the policy here.
Martin can write in ways that would earn him a Crystal Mark for clear and concise communication when he chooses do to so. You have to be good with words and at expressing ideas to muck about with them in the way that he does.
If you believe that Martin’s unique style of posting is an act that he puts on and takes off as he desires. And that it’s an act that he uses to avoid being called on certain opinions and get away with personal attacks, then maybe as he sowed so did he reap.
Martin’s been warned – and suspended – for walking this particular line before.
We don’t allow foreign language posting, text speak and ASCII on the boards – so why should we tolerate Morse code? Particularly when it’s posted in response to a warning about posting in tongues? Martin’s been here long enough to know the likely outcome of doing that.
OTH, if your perspective on Martin is different, then you may not agree with the above assessment.
Tubbs
--------------------
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
We don’t allow foreign language posting, text speak and ASCII on the boards – so why should we tolerate Morse code? Particularly when it’s posted in response to a warning about posting in tongues? Martin’s been here long enough to know the likely outcome of doing that.
Tubbs
I suppose one exception has been allowed, namely Kenwritez' brilliant post in interpretive dance notation. There were however three important differences:
i) He announced it as such
ii) It was entirely original
iii) He never repeated it.
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I suppose one exception has been allowed, namely Kenwritez' brilliant post in interpretive dance notation. There were however three important differences:
i) He announced it as such
ii) It was entirely original
iii) He never repeated it.
iv) It was in The Circus.
Moo
--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
In a living demonstration of how even good people make mistakes, I was a host on the Ship once. I made mistakes. And when I did, I was given some guidance where guidance was needed and I got my ass chewed where my ass needed to be chewed. When either happened, it was not done in public. Hosts on the Ship need to have an aura of being respected. That aura of respect prevents all kinds of potential problems from ever arising. Having a public ass chewing is not terribly conducive to maintaining that aura of respect.
Do you honestly think there would be less respect from this community for the Hosts and Administrators if they occasionally
admitted something had been a mistake and worked to publicly rectify it, or ameliorate its consequences?
Unless I've missed it, Martin's suspension is still open-ended. We have no idea if this is a two-week or a six-month suspension. I hope at the very least that Martin knows the duration; otherwise, it's very hard not to see this as personal pique.
--------------------
How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
FTR, I like Martin and mostly enjoy his posting style.
But here it is, simplified.
Martin - Behaviour
Rook - Warning
Martin - Behaviour repeated, amplified
Rook - Suspension
As to DTs behaviour; fair or unfair, Martin could have brought it here, he chose to play instead.
Not sure what the problem is.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
To me it looks more like:
Martin - Behaviour
Rook - Warning
Hell host - Playing a game with Martin about his behaviour
Martin - Participating in this game
Rook - Suspension
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
St. Punk the Pious
Biblical™ Punk
# 683
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
FTR, I like Martin and mostly enjoy his posting style.
But here it is, simplified.
Martin - Behaviour
Rook - Warning
Martin - Behaviour repeated, amplified
Rook - Suspension
As to DTs behaviour; fair or unfair, Martin could have brought it here, he chose to play instead.
Not sure what the problem is.
The problem as I see it is that the behavior that RooK warned him to stop was his posting style. It was an absurd and outrageous directive.
I see RooK's warning and enforcement of it as more the problem than anything DT did.
I am also alarmed that some here are fine with Martin's distinctive style being banned. Yes, a homogenized ship is just what we need. Non-conformists begone!
BTW, Trin, that was a very succinct and on-target summary above. Are you the mirror image twin of Martin? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
--------------------
The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.
Posts: 4161 | From: Choral Evensong | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
Tubbs: quote:
Martin’s been warned – and suspended – for walking this particular line before.
I didn't know this, and it does change the picture. However, I've never felt that Martin's posting style was something completely under his control. In the past he's talked about his battles with depression, and other issues. I always assumed that how he writes is a reflection of how he (or his meds) are seeing the world on any particular day. Sometimes he's easier to understand than others - there are plenty of conditions that do that to you.
[ 01. October 2012, 13:58: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
Oh, ferfucksake. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
What is this place actually for? It’s a discussion board. It’s for us, for our discussion. The Hosts are here to moderate our activity in order to facilitate discussion. We are not here for their amusement or to serve their privilege in Hosting. RooK’s suspension of Martin abjectly fails to serve the purpose of the place.
I think RooK’s self-declared ‘evil’ use of banning power is fucking pathetic. I hope he isn’t such a tosser behind the scenes, and that all this ‘misanthropic tyranny’ shtick is just a puerile affectation for our benefit. IF he really thinks all Shipmates are stupid morons, he should resign his position as Admin and let someone less ‘evil’ serve, IMO.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
The problem as I see it is that the behavior that RooK warned him to stop was his posting style. It was an absurd and outrageous directive.
I see RooK's warning and enforcement of it as more the problem than anything DT did.
I am also alarmed that some here are fine with Martin's distinctive style being banned. Yes, a homogenized ship is just what we need. Non-conformists begone!
I think you are being disingenuous about the reason Martin was let ashore. The offense which resulted in his shore leave was to post a clear C6 violation (an intentional slap in the face) that was not in plain English (a long-standing and always-enforced ship rule). That was not part of a "style" of posting; it was an intentional flouting of authority.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
Do you honestly think there would be less respect from this community for the Hosts and Administrators if they occasionally
admitted something had been a mistake and worked to publicly rectify it, or ameliorate its consequences?
No.
A public admission of making a mistake is a good thing. A public reaming may not be a good thing.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Oh, ferfucksake.
What is this place actually for? It’s a discussion board. It’s for us, for our discussion. The Hosts are here to moderate our activity in order to facilitate discussion. We are not here for their amusement or to serve their privilege in Hosting. RooK’s suspension of Martin abjectly fails to serve the purpose of the place.
Oh come on now. The intro to Hell is pretty clear: "Drawing a big target on your chest" and other such warnings. Many noobs have been toyed with, in Hell and elsewhere and I don't recall any of them being defended as Martin PC Not has been. OK, Martin PC has made positive contributions, but the Ship's Commandments apply to all of us.
quote:
I think RooK’s self-declared ‘evil’ use of banning power is fucking pathetic. I hope he isn’t such a tosser behind the scenes, and that all this ‘misanthropic tyranny’ shtick is just a puerile affectation for our benefit. IF he really thinks all Shipmates are stupid morons, he should resign his position as Admin and let someone less ‘evil’ serve, IMO.
Is that a deliberate attempt to get Shore leave?
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
St. Punk the Pious
Biblical™ Punk
# 683
|
Posted
Mousethief, again, directly from RooK's warning:
"So here's the deal: dial back both the 'shroom-like muses and the meth-like impulses voluntarily, immediately, or I shall give the Crew a temporary break from you forcibly."
Yes, the suspension IS about Martin's posting style. (Is that plain enough English for you?)
--------------------
The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.
Posts: 4161 | From: Choral Evensong | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
[QUOTE]Is that a deliberate attempt to get Shore leave?
No. Is that a deliberate attempt to incite such?
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
SPtP,
I doubt the ship is in imminent danger of conformity. If Martin had merely continued his posting in his typical vain, there might have been a point. Instead, he posted in Morse code. IMO, a demonstration of control, if not restraint. And a deliberate thumbing of his nose.
Yorick,
Rook* chooses to spend time helping run a board where people work out their issues with the world and seek refuge from same. Perhaps his style can be abrasive and harsh, I do not think evil is anywhere near the mark.
* as do all the hosts and admins.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
'Evil' was his word. But I agree, he patently isn't (I like the chap, and much admire his scintillating intelligence, FWIW), but all this bullshit evil tyrant shtick? Bollocks, that's what that is.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
|
Posted
He calls himself evil to hide the fact that deep down inside he is a nice guy. Just don't tell anyone.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
Yup. It's so frigging obvious it makes my anus contract and my toes curl every time he plays the big bad evil Admin.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Perhaps his style can be abrasive and harsh, I do not think evil is anywhere near the mark.
Only because he isn't really trying.
--------------------
mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Oh, ferfucksake.
What is this place actually for? It’s a discussion board. It’s for us, for our discussion. The Hosts are here to moderate our activity in order to facilitate discussion. We are not here for their amusement or to serve their privilege in Hosting. RooK’s suspension of Martin abjectly fails to serve the purpose of the place.
I think RooK’s self-declared ‘evil’ use of banning power is fucking pathetic. I hope he isn’t such a tosser behind the scenes, and that all this ‘misanthropic tyranny’ shtick is just a puerile affectation for our benefit. IF he really thinks all Shipmates are stupid morons, he should resign his position as Admin and let someone less ‘evil’ serve, IMO.
Styx Host Tiara On
You seem to have got the Styx confused with Hell. If you want to call RooK out, then call him out in Hell. Don't call him out here.
Styx Host Tiara Off
Tubbs
Styx Host
[ 01. October 2012, 15:45: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
--------------------
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
Mousethief, again, directly from RooK's warning:
"So here's the deal: dial back both the 'shroom-like muses and the meth-like impulses voluntarily, immediately, or I shall give the Crew a temporary break from you forcibly."
Yes, the suspension IS about Martin's posting style. (Is that plain enough English for you?)
Martin has not been banned – he’s just been suspended for two weeks. And the only change that he’s ever been asked to make to his “distinctive posting style” is to modify it slightly so what he is saying can be understood more easily. He has been asked this for the simplest and dullest of reasons – if others can understand what is being said, they can engage and debate with it properly. This being a discussion and debating space and all …
Tubbs
[ 01. October 2012, 15:49: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
--------------------
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
You seem to have got the Styx confused with Hell. If you want to call RooK out, then call him out in Hell. Don't call him out here.
Yes, I did get a little lost there. Thanks for the warning, and please accept my apologies.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
St. Punk the Pious
Biblical™ Punk
# 683
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
Mousethief, again, directly from RooK's warning:
"So here's the deal: dial back both the 'shroom-like muses and the meth-like impulses voluntarily, immediately, or I shall give the Crew a temporary break from you forcibly."
Yes, the suspension IS about Martin's posting style. (Is that plain enough English for you?)
Martin has not been banned – he’s just been suspended for two weeks. And the only change that he’s ever been asked to make to his “distinctive posting style” is to modify it slightly so what he is saying can be understood more easily. He has been asked this for the simplest and dullest of reasons – if others can understand what is being said, they can engage and debate with it properly. This being a discussion and debating space and all …
Tubbs
Thanks for the clarification and for confirming that this really is about Martin's posting style. I've already posted my thoughts on that.
I was aware that it was a suspension. Thanks for clearly setting forth the length of it.
--------------------
The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.
Posts: 4161 | From: Choral Evensong | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
He calls himself evil to hide the fact that deep down inside he is a nice guy. Just don't tell anyone.
It would be so good though, especially when there's a difficulty like this one, if hosts and admins could deal with the rest of us with - well, I was going to say politeness and respect, but even just to communicate to us normally, without scorn and threat would be good. You really don't have to belittle or terrify people to explain yourself effectively.
--------------------
My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
Mousethief, again, directly from RooK's warning:
"So here's the deal: dial back both the 'shroom-like muses and the meth-like impulses voluntarily, immediately, or I shall give the Crew a temporary break from you forcibly."
Yes, the suspension IS about Martin's posting style. (Is that plain enough English for you?)
No. "Meth-like impulses" needn't be coterminous with "'shroom-like muses" and the fact that he listed them both rather suggests it isn't. I'd say it's plain enough English for me and you both (do you, like Yorick, think this is Hell? or do you just fancy getting called there?) that "meth-like impulses" easily includes posting in Morse code. Tubbs' re-interpretation notwithstanding.
[ 01. October 2012, 16:24: Message edited by: mousethief ]
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
|
Posted
[alert - parable based on hyperbole - alert]
I appreciate the definitions of bullying, entrapment and victimization here; they have helped me to recognize that recently, I was bullyed by the sales manager of a car dealership in his role as an administrator.
The whole situation took place after entrapment by the car manufacturer and dealership; the manufacturer ran advertisements of a beautiful car on tv and in magazines; then the dealership placed the exact model in the exact colour I wanted on display right beside the highway. This was particularly an example of entrapment since that highway leads directly to the local Tim Horton's coffee shop, so they knew all of the locals would have to pass that geographical point.
When I looked at the car, it had a MSRP of a shade over $45,000. I sought out a salesman to act as host, and offered him a cheque for $38,000 as an "all-in price" to include taxes, delivery, dealer preparation, and licence transfer. I explained my special circumstances; to free more cash than that from my investments would cause me to incur a penalty, and I had no wish to finance any amount. He told me the sales manager would follow dealer policy and not accept such an offer, but when I pressed him he took it to the sales manager/admin.
The admin informed me that he would require an additional $4000, and that I should not hound his salesman/host further to accept the offer. There was a clear power imbalance there; without the sales manger/admin's signature, I could not purchase the car I wanted; he refused to take my special circumstances into consideration, and instead made his decision based on the best interest of the private business concern which gave him his admin position.
Quite clearly, I was bullyed; to whom should I complain?
[end of parable based on hyperbole]
--------------------
TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
Frankly, I don't see LB's parable above shedding much light.
FWIW, I suspect Martin of being a mystic. It's that streak in him to which I'd be willing to ascribe his posting style. Personally, I'm not a Christian, but I may incline occasionally toward mysticism myself; that's what attracts me to his posting style and makes me bother to try (with only intermittent success, sadly) de-coding it.
What if someone were to try exploring the possible intersects of language and mysticism in a thread? I'm not proposing we do so, but if mysticism and language are up for discussion on this discussion board, it could develop into a very difficult-to-follow, but potentially- interesting-to-participants, thread.
Would all participants be suspended for any such attempt if one materialized? I only ask because, after all, many posters here probably have at least a nodding acquaintance with Christian mysticism, and that's a topic which often deals with the inexpressible.
But here, as the poet wrote,"I have to use words when I talk to you." And plain ordinary language is frankly not up to every communicative task which humans might attempt. Language is a blunt instrument (see Croeses's thread on theological gibberish) and experimenting with it in efforts to achieve more noetic results -- especially for believers -- must surely be par for the course.
And yes, I'm sure it would also make the hosts' eyes bleed.
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
Mousethief, again, directly from RooK's warning:
"So here's the deal: dial back both the 'shroom-like muses and the meth-like impulses voluntarily, immediately, or I shall give the Crew a temporary break from you forcibly."
Yes, the suspension IS about Martin's posting style. (Is that plain enough English for you?)
Martin has not been banned – he’s just been suspended for two weeks. And the only change that he’s ever been asked to make to his “distinctive posting style” is to modify it slightly so what he is saying can be understood more easily. He has been asked this for the simplest and dullest of reasons – if others can understand what is being said, they can engage and debate with it properly. This being a discussion and debating space and all …
Tubbs
Thanks for the clarification and for confirming that this really is about Martin's posting style. I've already posted my thoughts on that.
I was aware that it was a suspension. Thanks for clearly setting forth the length of it.
I'm not sure I did confirm that, I just responded to your point about Martin's distinctive posting style being banned.
Tubbs
--------------------
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
QLib
Bad Example
# 43
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
I suspect Martin of being a mystic. It's that streak in him to which I'd be willing to ascribe his posting style. ...
What if someone were to try exploring the possible intersects of language and mysticism in a thread? I'm not proposing we do so, but if mysticism and language are up for discussion on this discussion board, it could develop into a very difficult-to-follow, but potentially- interesting-to-participants, thread.
Would all participants be suspended for any such attempt if one materialized? I only ask because, after all, many posters here probably have at least a nodding acquaintance with Christian mysticism, and that's a topic which often deals with the inexpressible.
But here, as the poet wrote,"I have to use words when I talk to you." And plain ordinary language is frankly not up to every communicative task which humans might attempt. Language is a blunt instrument (see Croeses's thread on theological gibberish) and experimenting with it in efforts to achieve more noetic results -- especially for believers -- must surely be par for the course.
And yes, I'm sure it would also make the hosts' eyes bleed.
I can't imagine why a thread on language and mysticism should make anyone's eyes bleed. (T.S.Eliot, anybody?) We had a zen thread once, if memory serves me correctly - does anyone else remember? Didn't it develop in Hell?
As for whether Martin is a mystic.... well, I look forward to your asking him that on his return.
[ 01. October 2012, 20:03: Message edited by: QLib ]
--------------------
Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
If Martin had merely continued his posting in his typical vain, ...
Great typo!
Moo
--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
'Evil' was his word.
I thought Sine was sort of alluding to the "banality of evil", which is a line of argument I find myself somewhat persuaded by in this circumstance.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
Suggestion:
H/As just *skim* Martin's posts, looking for really obvious violations (like "I think you're an idiot" in a Purg post). Otherwise, if a Shipmate feels attacked, they'll point it out, as they usually do.
That will save the H/As' bleeding eyes; allow Martin to continue his personal posting style; and let those of us who look forward to his posts enjoy them.
People who don't like his posting style can simply scroll on by, as we're often advised to do when we dislike a post or a poster.
Win, all around.
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
|
Posted
Now there's a thought.
Should the Hosts & Admins take up Golden Key's idea, I'll be sure to muscle my way to the front of the queue to ask to be placed on the Ecclesiantics Hosts' Skim-only-for-really-obvious-violations list.
Mamacita? Can you reserve me a spot, please?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Now there's a thought.
Should the Hosts & Admins take up Golden Key's idea, I'll be sure to muscle my way to the front of the queue to ask to be placed on the Ecclesiantics Hosts' Skim-only-for-really-obvious-violations list.
Mamacita? Can you reserve me a spot, please?
If someone asked to be on such a list, I'd give him/her extra scrutiny.
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
|
Posted
He's back!
I don't hate all of you here. Consider how many of you I've friended on a certain commercially-available Internet posting service. However, have any of you considered what it is like to be gone for a while, come back and read the Styx like a good shipmate, and find yet another thread about Martin PC Not and his posting style?
For fuck's sake people, stuff like this is like coming back to visit a disfunctional family. You really do love the family members (see previous comment about friending people), but would like to think I gave up these drugs a long time ago.
There seems to be no recognition that life is full of gray areas, decisions have to be made, and everyone keeping this Ship afloat (shipmates and officers) is doing their best.
This discussion is a world-wide equivalent of what I have seen in many family-sized parishes. The arguments are a sign that everyone loves everyone else (or no one would come back for more), and fullfil something needed in their lives. However, it is not unrest leading to something new and worthwhile.
Erin (memory eternal) is dead. The Ship isn't going to go new places if you keep travelling the waters she skillfully charted. "Those days are passed now/and in the past they must remain...."
--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
What a fascinating thread. We've got people who seem to think that Hosts can't warn people to modify their posts, even though posting is the only thing we all do here and therefore the only thing capable of being modified.
We also seem to think that Doublethink was merely engaged in some witty game with a nod and a wink, rather than having clearly stated a requirement with Host hat on.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
[alert - parable based on hyperbole - alert]
Quite clearly, I was bullyed; to whom should I complain?
[end of parable based on hyperbole]
You were only bullied if you had to finance CDN$4000 to leave the dealership alive. There is a choice not to play their game, at the risk of not getting the car.
--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
|
Posted
'allo playmates.
My unreserved apologies to DoubleThink, Rook and the Ship.
And my thanks.
Amongst the answers to my enigmatic mediocrity - surely he can't be THAT thick ? - to the lack of substance, the mediocrity behind my enigmatism, obfuscation, is the fact that I AM that thick and I've got in to some VERY bad habits as this paragraph demonstrates.
I have been badly playing a left-field game here for what, fourteen years.
Game over. I want those who pass me by to stop by too.
And I really would like to change my name to something less ... less. Martin etc or The Inertia of the Earwig or ...
Old habits will die REAL hard I know.
Thank you EVERYONE.
You know who you are.
Friends, critics and hosts.
In One.
--------------------
Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Welcome back ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
|
Posted
Thanks Double[T]think indeed. I felt like a lost soul and used the time for reflection.
--------------------
Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Japes
Shipmate
# 5358
|
Posted
Welcome back!
--------------------
Blog may or may not be of any interest.
Posts: 2013 | From: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
