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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Another school shooting
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Americans will have a chance to reduce gun violence when we are no longer the world's greatest producer and purveyors of weapons. Till then, the chickens will continue to come home to roost.
I remember seeing an interview with a Columbian politician, being pushed on what his government was doing to tackle the drugs trade and violence associated with it. It was put to him that a lot of the drugs made in Columbia made it to the US, and they had an international responsibility to put a stop to this trade. He asked in return where most of the guns used by the gangs in Columbia were made.
But I wonder if there is a clear practical link in addition to the moral link. It would be perfectly feasible to have a roaring overseas trade in arms with no domestic trade (e.g. the UK) or, vice versa, a roaring internal availability of arms with next to no export (a number of failed states as examples).
I'm not saying that the UK's example is laudable, just wondering whether the "chance to reduce gun violence" is actually defined by practical considerations or by moral ones.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Good point, comet. Do you have any idea how many mass firearm killings there have been in Alaska. (I realize that there are more people in Columbus than Alaska, but I'm still interested.)
One. note, it was not an assault weapon.
But we've also recently been dealing with a serial killer and he was definitely not our first.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
This piece from Salon is rather interesting in its refutation that armed citizens can and will stop a determined killer.
quote:
In 2009, ABC’s “20/20″ demonstrated the problem with a clever experiment. They recruited a dozen or so students, gave them gun training that was more comprehensive than what most states require for concealed carry permits, and then entrusted them with a gun and told them they would have to fend off a shooter later that day. Separating them, they placed each one in a real classroom with other “students” (actually study compatriots). When a gunman burst in and started shooting, each student tried to respond by drawing his or her gun. Every single student failed, including several who had had years of practice shooting guns, and they all got shot (fortunately, it was just paintball bullets in real handguns).
The truth, as difficult as it is to accept, is that it’s often impossible to stop a shooter no matter how many guns are present. John Hinckley Jr. managed to nearly kill Ronald Reagan and permanently disable James Brady despite the fact that they were surrounded by dozens of heavily armed men with the best training imaginable. The only way to stop the incident would have been to prevent the offender from getting guns in the first place.
It doesn't matter that it is apparently impossible to stop the American gun love. Rationality is not what it is about. “The most effective way to avoid tragedies like this is not to start an arms race among teachers/students.”
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by
The Silent Acolyte:
You say 91 mass killings in 1999. There were five. Referring to your link, the total fatalities is closer to 1000 (943 at a quick tally) than to 110. There were 61 total incidents. Doc Tor, can't you count; or, does only rhetoric matter to you, not the actual numbers?
What the hell are you smoking?
110 deaths up to Sept 2012 for the year, just like the per year stats I'd quoted all the other times.
Doc Tor, I want to apologize to you.
To my reading a "mass killing" denotes an occasion with a number of fatalities, so "mass killings" is a number of such occasions with a larger number of deaths.
I initially read your comments that way and couldn't understand what in the world you were saying and how you could be such a meat-head.
After you did explain yourself, I was the meat-head, persistently and repeatedly the meat-head, reading your words through my lens and not the one you provided me.
I was being obtuse and obstreperous and I'm sorry.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Why don't gun owners simply own up that guns are cool kit, another form of grown-ups toy that harks back to a simpler, more romantic age and they like to have them around? C'mon, be honest about it.
(When I was nine I had a flick knife and thought I was the coolest kid in the class)
[ 18. December 2012, 18:19: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by
The Silent Acolyte:
You say 91 mass killings in 1999. There were five. Referring to your link, the total fatalities is closer to 1000 (943 at a quick tally) than to 110. There were 61 total incidents. Doc Tor, can't you count; or, does only rhetoric matter to you, not the actual numbers?
What the hell are you smoking?
110 deaths up to Sept 2012 for the year, just like the per year stats I'd quoted all the other times.
Doc Tor, I want to apologize to you.
To my reading a "mass killing" denotes an occasion with a number of fatalities, so "mass killings" is a number of such occasions with a larger number of deaths.
I initially read your comments that way and couldn't understand what in the world you were saying and how you could be such a meat-head.
After you did explain yourself, I was the meat-head, persistently and repeatedly the meat-head, reading your words through my lens and not the one you provided me.
I was being obtuse and obstreperous and I'm sorry.
That's really very grown up of you, and I honestly appreciate it. (Also, I may not have done the same in the reverse situation, which is something to consider.)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Good point, comet. Do you have any idea how many mass firearm killings there have been in Alaska. (I realize that there are more people in Columbus than Alaska, but I'm still interested.)
Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, despite being almost devoid of people and stuffed with guns, still have two (count 'em), two members in the upper house of the national legislature.
That is why, say, Washington, DC, or New York, or Los Angeles will never be able to unfuck the ridiculous gun violence situation in their environs through gun restrictions.
Well, actually, New York City has the lowest violent crime rate per capita of any U.S. city over 1 million resident by far. We're almost at European levels.
New York City's violent crime rate is 581.7/100,000. Anchorage's is 837.7/100,000.
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
You are so right. How 1970s of me.
My examples should have been New Orleans, Baltimore, and St. Louis, if this table is to be trusted.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
It is possibly no coincidence that New York City also has very stringent gun control laws. Just sayin'.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I was at the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania some years ago when a crazed gunman shot so many innocent people. The whole incident is traumatic to this day. Thankfully it led to very strict gun laws throughout Australia and there have been no such gun fuelled incidents since. Guns kill and that is their purpose. I would like to see a gun free society except for strictly controlled use by certain specialised professionals. My prayers are for the victims of gun violence. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
It is possibly no coincidence that New York City also has very stringent gun control laws. Just sayin'.
Chicago's are even stricter- and the violent crime rate is higher, as I understand it...
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
Well, actually, New York City has the lowest violent crime rate per capita of any U.S. city over 1 million resident by far. We're almost at European levels.
New York City's violent crime rate is 581.7/100,000. Anchorage's is 837.7/100,000.
Huh? San Diego (427.6/100,000), Phoenix (518.1/100,000) and Los Angeles (559.2/100,000) all have lower violent crime rates than New York, according to the Wikipedia table.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
Well, actually, New York City has the lowest violent crime rate per capita of any U.S. city over 1 million resident by far. We're almost at European levels.
New York City's violent crime rate is 581.7/100,000. Anchorage's is 837.7/100,000.
Huh? San Diego (427.6/100,000), Phoenix (518.1/100,000) and Los Angeles (559.2/100,000) all have lower violent crime rates than New York, according to the Wikipedia table.
Sorry. I confused overall crime rate with just the violent crime rate.
Chicago may have stricter gun laws on the books, but NYC's gun laws are more strictly enforced. Police actively search backpacks, bags and people entering the subways and public transportation (which is far more widely used here than anywhere else in the country) and they conduct other pro-active operations to find and dispose of guns.
That said, there's more to it than just tough gun laws. There are other factors like type of policing ("community" policing), number of police per capita, economic and social factors, etc.
Still, as a NYC commuter, the thought of everyone packing loaded guns on a crowded subway gives me the chills. Subway fights are common enough. Right now they escalate to punching and kicking - once I witnessed two people pull knives. The fear that anyone, in any mental or emotional state, can pull a gun and shoot up a packed subway car between stations is a terrifying thought. Shootings still happen here, but gun ownership isn't part of the culture, people don't expect those they encounter to have them and it changes the way people interact with each other.
[ 19. December 2012, 19:01: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
The National Review has finally gone off the deep end. William F. Buckley Jr. has to be rolling in his grave at more than 33-1/3 RPM. The fuckwittery is too much. OMFG.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Wow. So even if the women were rootin-tootin' gun-totin' women, they'd STILL be wrong?
And the outcome of gun battles, or of armed vs unarmed, is ultimately determined by the gender of the participants? Physical size and strength is still a factor even when using a semi-automatic?
Good to know.
Now if you'll excuse me, this queer pansy needs to head for the gym and muscle up. My handgun measures my BMI and fat/muscle ratio when I hold the grip, and it won't fire if I'm not sufficiently like a Real Man.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The National Review has finally gone off the deep end. William F. Buckley Jr. has to be rolling in his grave at more than 33-1/3 RPM. The fuckwittery is too much. OMFG.
Good grief!
But he's probably been spinning in his grave at 78 RPM since the NR forced his son, Christopher, off the magazine for supporting Obama in 2008.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
An armed nation is a terrified nation...
Terrified and the opposite of 'Free'.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The National Review has finally gone off the deep end. William F. Buckley Jr. has to be rolling in his grave at more than 33-1/3 RPM. The fuckwittery is too much. OMFG.
Good grief!
But he's probably been spinning in his grave at 78 RPM since the NR forced his son, Christopher, off the magazine for supporting Obama in 2008.
That article is insane. I'm pleased to see though that the author Charlotte Allen's book has had a flurry of negative reviews on Amazon in protest. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 20. December 2012, 09:12: Message edited by: Hawk ]
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
But how do you stop paranoia?
I dunno . Get 'Dog the Bounty-Hunter' into the White-house maybe ?
[ 20. December 2012, 17:45: Message edited by: rolyn ]
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
I'm pleased to see though that the author Charlotte Allen's book has had a flurry of negative reviews on Amazon in protest.
You mean from people who've not actually read the book? Stupid childish arseholes. Even if they're on my side of a debate, that doesn't stop them from being stupid childish arseholes.
What are people doing here? Are they trying to win an argument, or they trying to prove to their opponents that they're petty irrational vindictive idiots whose arguments can be dismissed on the grounds of their behaviour?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
I'm pleased to see though that the author Charlotte Allen's book has had a flurry of negative reviews on Amazon in protest.
You mean from people who've not actually read the book? Stupid childish arseholes. Even if they're on my side of a debate, that doesn't stop them from being stupid childish arseholes.
What are people doing here? Are they trying to win an argument, or they trying to prove to their opponents that they're petty irrational vindictive idiots whose arguments can be dismissed on the grounds of their behaviour?
I could accurately review Jeffrey Archer's latest without reading it and I haven't read any of his books. I can however trust lit crits, as they agree that every Jeffrey Archer == every other Jeffrey Archer.
Maybe Ms Allen has a similar track record?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
...NYC's gun laws are more strictly enforced. Police actively search backpacks, bags and people entering the subways and public transportation (which is far more widely used here than anywhere else in the country) and they conduct other pro-active operations to find and dispose of guns.
ToujoursDan, do you cite these searches in approbation; or, do they bother your Fourth Amendment sensibilities?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I could accurately review Jeffrey Archer's latest without reading it and I haven't read any of his books. I can however trust lit crits, as they agree that every Jeffrey Archer == every other Jeffrey Archer.
And then, when Jeffrey Archer gets bored and decides to do something different, none of you will notice.
That's not criticism, that's laziness.
[ 21. December 2012, 00:49: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bean Sidhe:
Most of the boys in that class told me they routinely carried a knife for their own protection. I tried to tell them that the most likely result would be that an attacker would get the knife off them and use it on them, but it cut little ice.
Why would you tell them that?
Is it based on decent evidence or a faith proposition you happen to hold?
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
The knife talk is silly, so too is the worry about guns. It's ping pong what kills.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I'm less worried about the backpacks and body armor than I am about the increased gun sales!
Gaaaa! This is NOT the OK Corral, folks!
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
A quick bit of googling brought me a nice page about what happens to people who think they can do knife fights.
Finally, something relating to self-defense we agree on... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
In all seriousness, check out the link, folks. MacYoung is a darned good writer, and his material on the causes of interpersonal violence is a real eye-opener.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Bean Sidhe
Shipmate
# 11823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
quote:
Originally posted by Bean Sidhe:
Most of the boys in that class told me they routinely carried a knife for their own protection. I tried to tell them that the most likely result would be that an attacker would get the knife off them and use it on them, but it cut little ice.
Why would you tell them that?
Is it based on decent evidence or a faith proposition you happen to hold?
It had been police advice on a visit to the school. And as I made clear, I was talking to year 8 students, growing up in a tough East End borough but little more than children.
Posts: 4363 | From: where the taxis won't go | Registered: Sep 2006
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
That piece on knife fighting is very good.
We practice with daggers in our re-enactment group - these are blunt, of course - and I'm rubbish at it. It's too fast, too close, and one of the participants usually "dies" very quickly. Of course, what we're interested in is making it look good for the public, which in turn makes it less like a real knife fight.
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
Dear God. I find it rather shocking that he thinks that "26 little kids" were killed. Shows how closely he has been following the news. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”
What utter, absolute bollocks. Where do they think they are - the wild west where the good guys all wear white hats?
Words fail me. If this were true the USA would be the safest pace re gun crime. As it is the USA is down there with the lawless places on Earth. Does he not realise that the 'good guy with a gun' would simply be the first target?
The thing which will lessen gun crime is to lessen the availability of guns. This is so very obvious I can't think why it needs saying.
<scream>
[ 21. December 2012, 16:21: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
There were two armed police officers at Columbine High School. They were outgunned. (Source.)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
The NRA's answer is more guns in schools. Goddamned assholes.
Even if this was a good, defensible suggestion (and just for the record, I think it's the worst idea since pre-peeled, re-packaged bananas), could they have possibly found a more insulting spokesman for the idea?
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Bean Sidhe
Shipmate
# 11823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
quote:
Originally posted by Bean Sidhe:
Most of the boys in that class told me they routinely carried a knife for their own protection. I tried to tell them that the most likely result would be that an attacker would get the knife off them and use it on them, but it cut little ice.
Why would you tell them that?
Is it based on decent evidence or a faith proposition you happen to hold?
It had been police advice on a visit to the school. And as I made clear, I was talking to year 8 students, growing up in a tough East End borough but little more than children.
Posts: 4363 | From: where the taxis won't go | Registered: Sep 2006
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
Good god, have people turned crazy?
If you arm people in the schools, perps will simply bring stronger and deadlier weapons causing more deaths.
Plus there is always a chance that a child will get a hold of that gun. That child will end up shooting himself or others.
As well, if the perp comes in and kills the police officer, suddenly he will have a second gun which would wreak havoc.
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”
Following this and looking at the level of firearms related deaths, I can only assume that the majority of guns in the USA are held by bad guys.
Either that or he's talking out of his arse.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
The latter.
If someone bursts in with an automatic or semi-automatic weapon are they going to pause to allow you to draw your gun? This only happens in Hollywood films and in the minds of people from the NRA. It is not the real world.
Guns in schools have got to be kept away from the children. If you can get to the gun in time then it isn't in a safe place with regards to the children.
There is no way that that statement makes any sort of sense.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Yep, it's all a Hollywood film. Where only fit muscly males can save the day (cf previous lament about Sandy Hook being full of female adults), and where bad guys spray bullets wildly and at best just nick the hero, whereas good guys shoot straight and true.
It would be completely hilarious that people betrayed that this is their mental image of the real world, if we weren't talking about lethal force. When people walk up to actors and talk to them as if they were the character they play, it's kind of amusing at the same time as disconcerting. When people think that gun battles play out the way they do in Hollywood, it's fucked up and dangerous.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
The thing which will lessen gun crime is to lessen the availability of guns. This is so very obvious I can't think why it needs saying.
<scream>
Let them keep their boy's toys. Reduce the availability of ammo.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
This is a great idea! - more guns in schools.
Next headline: Teacher shot, Student says I deserved an "A" not a "B".
The police say the teacher had simply put the gun down for a moment while she took off her sweater. The NRA says that students should be shot if they approach a teacher's desk without permission.
In other news, although corporal punishment has been banned in schools for decades, the Iowa Supreme Court has ruled that principals and vice principals may shoot students if they have been warned and suspended 3 times. The court majority opinion says that 3 strikes is enough and recommends head shots for maximum blood splatter and setting of example to other children. The minority opinion was that students should expect to shot at the time of the 3rd strike.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
And even if putting armed security guards in all schools were the right answer, there's no way to do it by the beginning of school in January, as LaPierre suggested.
A cynical mind might wonder if he has any connections with a security company...
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Guns in schools have got to be kept away from the children. If you can get to the gun in time then it isn't in a safe place with regards to the children.
This is true if there were to be guns in schools - but they have no place in schools, under any circumstances. No least because of the terrible lessons it would teach the children.
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[ 22. December 2012, 07:40: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Recess. Playground. Sniper across the street in the trees picking off children one by one.
How is your "armed guard" going to stop that?
Well, we'll have to redesign schools with the courtyards in the inside.
Kinda like prisons.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
For me, there is only one solution and it is distasteful and very offensive… Let the NRA have their way.
Put more armed guards in, fill the place with them. Ask the NRA how many they want and then double it. Then, when the next attack happens – and it will – then they will not have any response. I’m afraid that it will mean sacrificing American children, but that seems to be the only way.
The only way to stop the killing is when the people who want the guns have had enough. It’s like any addiction, unless YOU want to stop then YOU won’t, I’m afraid.
Alcoholics only want to stop drinking when they have reached rock bottom and have had enough drinking. AA tells people who don’t know or don’t accept that they have a problem to keep drinking, because the only way they will admit to a problem is when it gets bad enough for THEM. For an alcoholic, controlled drinking fails more often than not and only total abstinence works.
The only way to stop the gun addiction is to let the gun owners have their way, and when they have reached rock bottom and have no more answers then they will want to stop. Gun control is like controlled drinking, fine if you are not an addict, but when you are it won’t work.
Many more American children will have to die yet before the gun owners accept there is a problem and they must stop. There must be more young blood spilled, more deaths, more violence, and that’s why I say to let the NRA and the gun owners have their way, as it will enable America’s rock bottom to be reached more quickly.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
That's assuming we have a rock bottom. An individual person has a rock bottom. As each gun drunk hits his rock bottom, he will be replaced by another with a yet lower bottom.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
That's assuming we have a rock bottom. An individual person has a rock bottom. As each gun drunk hits his rock bottom, he will be replaced by another with a yet lower bottom.
Possibly. Many alcoholics never hit their own rock bottom. They die. The analogy still holds.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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