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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Parenting for all ages
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Make sure there's nothing around she can injure herself with and leave her to it.
Yes, that's hard. She is, however, beyond reason and nothing you can do will make a difference. When it's blown over, go back, give her a hug and pretend it never happened.
Your sanity will thank you.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
Even at this age they figure out very quickly how to get to you. If she has picked up how anxious the tantrums make you, she will know that she can control you and try all the harder. Trying to distract her may just be feeding her attenditon seeking.
ignoring her as long as she is in safe place is the best.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Keren-Happuch
Ship's Eyeshadow
# 9818
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Posted
KGlet1 hated to be touched while in a tantrum. The main thing is to be as calm as possible while it's going on - much easier said than done, I know! - and to give hugs and reassurance once it's over. They often scare themselves getting out of control like that. With KGlet2, I usually say something like "you felt very angry and upset" and he agrees and later says, "I'm happy now!"
Figuring out why can be very hard, especially when they're pre-verbal. A lot of frustration around at this age!
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Travesty, treachery, betrayal!
EXCESS - The Art of Treason
Nea Fox
Posts: 2407 | From: A Fine City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
If you're worried there might be something more to it, videotape one of them and show it to your pediatrician. If for no other reason than to put your mind at ease.
When my little guy was going through the tantrum stage I used to carry him as quickly as possible to a quiet place with no visual stimulation whatsoever. Usually I looked for a plain white wall, or a corner (all the better to block out distractions with, my dear). Then I held him (hopefully in my lap, but by the shoulders if necessary) facing that blankness.
It really seemed to work.
I think tantrums come in two kinds, the involuntary and the "let's try this out on Mom." From the age of your daughter, I expect you've got the involuntary ones, the ones that are as much a surprise to her as to you. IME these result from being overtired, having a tooth come in, being about to get sick, and similar unhappinesses. It's like the extra stress just fries their little brains and at a certain point the needle swings into tantrum-for-no-reason territory. And a lot of times you have no idea what kicked it off--maybe nothing did, maybe a butterfly flew by or something. But they just wound up in red alert territory. Which for us usually meant "it's time to go home and have a nap," and if I remembered, to get out the thermometer just in case.
No need for discipline with these kinds of tantrums. They're like summer storms, they just come, and the kid is not using them to manipulate. You can usually tell when and if they move on to stage two, "let's freak Mom out and see if I can get some candy." Because in those cases, their goal is crystal clear.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Some children are simply reactive where small, even unobserved things, can put them over their ability to tolerate. We had one (who is now an adult) who wouldn't settle to sleep, woke all the time, would tantrum and melt daily. I ended up once in a cool shower fully clothed holding her: wouldn't ever subject any child to anything I wouldn't subject myself to.
We learned that some children find that their ability to manage feelings and input from their senses lags behind the inputs. We also found that this child did extremely well with quiet calm times, and if we built this into each day, it helped a lot. We also had to have the end of the work/school day when the absent other children and parent would come home, be a calm time, without excessive excitement. It continued into school age, but all cleared up by about grade 3 / age 8. I suspect it might have stopped earlier, except that school provides a lot of stimulation, and a child who has some trouble controlling feelings may keep it together only to melt a bit at home. This child (now adult) has always been extremely intuitive, and can read others moods etc in very sensitive ways. Perhaps for some, the temper tantrum reactivity is the downside to this.
The concept of 'melting' was something we adopted, and was helpful to all of us. In situations of duress, like long car trips, shopping excursions etc, we talked about when melting was acceptable or not, and it is strangely possible to schedule melting a bit.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
Thanks for all the advice - sorry I didn't see it sooner, I was refreshing the page and failed to notice it had gone onto a new page ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's not doing it deliberately. She's upset and/or frustrated.
Perversely, it's actually relatively easy for me to not react - like I said, the screaming fries my brain, so I default to sitting silent and motionless and staring unfocused unless I do make a big effort to respond and try to distract her. So maybe I should carry on with the non-response and just stop feeling guilty about it and feeling like I ought to be Doing Something.
Holding her during a tantrum - whether in a hug or facing a wall - would upset her more. But I will make more of a point of hugging and comforting her afterwards.
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Hey Talitha -
Fries my brain too!
With ours, we got into the mantra 'nothing sad has happened...'- i.e. if it has, then fine, I'll give you a cuddle now. If it hasn't, then fine, make the noise if you want to, but I'm not going to listen to it. I'll give you a cuddle when it stops. Perhaps when a little older, a place to do that kind of crying is useful (bottom stair is handy, as it doesn't build in aversion to anything else, such a sent to bedroom might).
This works well if we stay upbeat, breezy and calm. Which is not all the time...! Even saying 'I'm not angry with you - I just want you to make that noise over there, please' can be good...
It gets so much easier when they can talk. You're nearly there!
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Oh, another one -
Use your hand over their mouth when they're wailing for nothing (hold it, social workers, it's not what you think) to go 'mwha mwha mwha' and turn it into red indian (sorry, native american...er...first nations...er) noises. Worked well with ours, who would even laugh, sometimes.
Remembered this one whilst reprising it with nearly 7-yr-old this morning. She didn't laugh ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Make sure there's nothing around she can injure herself with and leave her to it.
Yes, that's hard. She is, however, beyond reason and nothing you can do will make a difference. When it's blown over, go back, give her a hug and pretend it never happened.
Your sanity will thank you.
Yes.
Our eldest was prone to tantrums. We used to take his shoes off and leave him to it. He'd eventually blow himself out and come whimpering for a cuddle. Of course, it's harder when you're out and about. In those circumstances we got him to the car asap. I remember one memorable occasion when Mr Boogs carried screaming boy the full length of Scarborough prom (I wandered along behind,on the other side of the road, pushing the youngest in the pram - pretending they had nothing to do with me!)
Interestingly, now that he is grown up, he's the mildest mannered young man you could ever meet. He, too, has always been very intuitive and very quickly picks up how people are feeling.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
Mark, thanks, those both sound like very good ideas.
I'm still not sure I can tell the difference between tantrum and pain. The other day she was screaming and I tried giving her teething gel and she stopped. So maybe she was in pain from her teeth (argh, guilt). Or maybe she was having a tantrum and wanted the taste of teething gel. No idea.
I have now filmed a couple of short clips which I can hopefully show to the health visitor at some point.
Also, she didn't do it at all over the weekend, so maybe she was just having a bad week for some reason.
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Talitha:
maybe she was just having a bad week for some reason.
Perhaps she was overheated? It's been pretty warm on this neck of the woods recently
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Talk about books -any books- on our rejuvenatedforum http://www.bookgrouponline.com/index.php?
Posts: 3060 | From: Sussex By The Sea | Registered: Jun 2005
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
My turn. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I've got an overly sensitive preteen who is far too smart for his own good. Meaning, he can imagine sixteen impossible horrors before breakfast--and freak out over them.
Case in point: summer is approaching, and his father gets up while he is still asleep to water the garden. I go off to work early, as I've done lo these five years already, taking one car (the other is still in the driveway). When he wakes to find no one in the house at that exact moment, he immediately assumes we've gone off together and LEFT HIM. And melts down.
I asked him how he could possibly think that when a) we've never done such a thing in our blessed LIVES and b) there is still one car in the driveway (durrrrr). He replied that he assumed I'd taken his father with me. WTF?
In the same way every bug bite is a potentially Serious Medical Condition™, and when a bully threw a woodchip at him and hit a teacher instead (and was promptly busted), my kid assumed that he himself would be the one in trouble.
I know the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and I have anxiety issues. But I've done my darndest to shield him from them, and he's never had to go through the major trials we have (bar the bullying, and his issues didn't start with that,though it didn't help either). In fact, I feel like I spend all my time being blase about everything just to set him an example of calm. (I come and freak out on the Ship instead, you poor people.)
Does any of this sound familiar to anybody? And what can I do about it? He's been seeing the school counselor for yonks, but frankly she's a neophyte and relies on workbooks and such, sort of "formula for a better life". Mr. Lamb is an experienced pastor and trained professional counselor, and he's scratching his head. LL is physically healthy and my gut (and much experience) tells me that he is not suffering from some horrible mental illness--just way, way too imaginative and apt to follow a mildly worrying train of thought to the inevitable trainwreck conclusion.
Tiredness makes it worse. Hunger makes it worse. Being up even half an hour after bedtime makes it hell.
There are times like tonight when I just want to sit on him until he gets a grip and chills out.
I was like this, but having an alcoholic as a father, I learned very young to put on a fake front. It wasn't a good adaptation.
I'm trying to do better by LL, but I don't know if I am. Or how, or what, or what to expect next from a kid being raised in a nonabusive family.
[ 04. April 2012, 03:41: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Ah, well I remember aged about 10, lying awake worrying myself sick that the teacher would discover there were pages missing from my exercise book (when they were handed in, my work would have reached the middle with the staples in before everyone else's and the world would end).
Childhood is not good on a sense of proportion.
I do have to say - and you probably know - though that hypersensitivity doesn't go away. Now, at the other end of life, my midnight frettings are over things long since said or done, which no one but me remembers or cares about.
The answer I suspect - and I might try applying for it even this late in the day - is to have the zen mind of living now, in the moment, neither fearing the future nor regretting the past. If I crack that one, I'll pass it on.
[ 04. April 2012, 07:16: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
Two thoughts spring to mind, possibly neither of them would be right for your particular pre-teen because all kids are different, but they're just my first instinct responses.
The first idea would be a book where the worries get written down. Simply written, not analysed or anything - a worry book. When each worry gets "solved", i.e when the outcome is clear, he just signs them off with a short note of what the outcome was. For example: Worry - mum and dad not here, have I been abandoned? Outcome - no, Dad was in the garden. Worry - I might forget to do my homework and my teacher will be angry. Outcome - my teacher was angry, I did my homework at lunchtime in detention, now the homework is done and the teacher is fine with me again. Just wondering whether something like that might help your boy get his own sense of proportion rather than you telling him which worries are sound and which are not.
Second idea - Worst Case Scenario? When he gets worked up like that, instead of dismissing the worries as unfeasible ("You should know we wouldn't leave you home alone"/"Your teacher isn't going to bother counting the pages in your book!" ), maybe try giving some reassurance but working through a "what if" scenario. So, "I promise that we won't leave you home alone, but let's work out what you would do if it did happen. You are good at thinking things through so what plan would you make if something like that did happen? Who would you ring? Where would you go to? Who would be the best person to help? What could you do in the meantime?" or "I think it unlikely that your teacher will notice or mind that there are pages missing, but what is the worst thing that might happen if she did? Detention? Telling off? How could you cope with that? Or is there a way we could preempt it, maybe by telling the teacher in advance and saying sorry and not doing it again? What do you think?"
His worrying might be excessive now. It could drive you crazy and be debilitating for him. But teaching him to problem-solve and realise how resilient he can be can only help him long term. And after all, a worry is still a worry, no matter how irrational it is. Just like those times you KNOW you've turned the iron off before heading off on holiday but STILL have to go back in and check before you drive away.
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Jen.
Godless Liberal
# 3131
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Posted
Hi,
I haven't got an answer to the catastrophic thought spiralling, but wanted to say how good it is that he's telling you these thoughts. I didn't use to (v similar child I think) and that made it so much worse for me at the time, and as I've learned since, my parents too - they knew something was wrong with me and I was worrying, but didn't know what.
I remember one time I was fussing about how much I didn't want to go to school (can't event remember why now) and my mum just turned around and said 'well don't go then'. This was the first time I'd really been posed with that as an option (clearly wasn't a real option). That stopped me in my tracks and I was enabled to make a real decision about what I'd do - that helped a lot!
I wondered (in the course of writing this post) if there is anything to be gained through having less of a 'front'. One thing that made my anxieties a lot better is knowing other people get them too. Could you stage some form of low-grade anxiety thought and ask LL what he thinks you should do about the situation. He sounds like quite a mature, and clearly bright child - maybe the worries aren't actually being helped by him worrying that other people don't worry!
I know it was only an example, but with the 'you've all gone and left me' thing, could you offer him the choice of being woken and told when you're leaving/dad is going to water the garden or him trusting that's where you're likely to be? I remember the notepad of paper by the phone being crucial at that kind of age - it's where Mum left notes about where she was, when she might be home (and usually chores to be done...). It was a method of communication that was really clear, always followed and very comforting. My anxieties were always around not knowing where people were and weren't.
Jen
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Was Jenny Ann, but fancied being more minimal.
Posts: 5318 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Ooh, gotta try all these. At last! A sense of hope!
No, really, I'm so glad. As you've doubtless sussed out, I'm having my own spiralling anxieties about this, not helped.at.all. by his counselor saying "could it be educational autism?" to me. I told her if that was so she'd have to class the whole family that way, but clearly I've been obsessing about it anyway.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gracious rebel
Rainbow warrior
# 3523
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Posted
Just an aside, but when I was that age and encountered situations where both parents has inexplicably disappeared/not shown up, my conclusion wasn't that they had run off without me, but that the Rapture must have happened! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) Now that really was a case of growing up with something to worry about!
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Fancy a break beside the sea in Suffolk? Visit my website
Posts: 4413 | From: Suffolk UK | Registered: Nov 2002
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
I'm so glad I popped on board and read this thread, these suggestions are brilliant!
What the **** is 'educational autism' anyway, did she make it up especially for you?
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
No better solutions to offer than those suggested (which sound great) - getting seriously locked into the rational sometimes worked for me, who used to get up in the night to check the car was still there.
I've speculated that in my case, it might have been something to do with spending the first n months in an incubator etc etc. Such is the stuff of pop psychology books, and like your school counsellor, it's no use whatsoever ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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birdie
fowl
# 2173
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Posted
LC, reading your post took me right back to myself as a child! (And gave me the shivers a bit...) I was SO like that. But I'd echo Jenny Ann - it's really good that he's telling you this stuff. I didn't tell anyone really.
I have no idea why I was like that. As far as I can tell there were no Deep Issues going on, and it's gradually got better with time.
Jenny Ann's suggestion of, for example, the notepad is a very good one. Lots of times there are simple, practical things that can be done to try and prevent the worries arising in the first place.
I think the worst case scenario thing might work too. I'm trying to think if it would have worked for me as a child, but I'm not sure, as it's not something my parents did with me.
Looking back, apart from the hours of time wasted in worrying, the main negative impact of that state of mind on me as a child was in having difficulty prioritising - I'd put all my resources into dealing with whatever was worrying me most, which wasn't necessarily the most important thing, which resulted in massive overachievement in areas which didn't really matter, and less than stellar performance in others. So that might be something to look out for.
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"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness."
Captain Jack Sparrow
Posts: 1290 | From: the edge | Registered: Jan 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) to all of you! (I'm beginning to think I ought to do these things on my own behalf as well--maybe keeping a little notebook or doing the worst case scenario would keep me from utterly freaking out at work)
Educational autism--well, that's just the trouble, I have no idea what it's supposed to mean (except as she hastily assured me, it's not exactly the same as "real" autism). Which makes me go ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) . I googled it and found nothing helpful. I have dark suspicions that it might be a new and trendy way of medicalizing weird kids with an eye to gaining extra state and federal funds.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
LC - have you read Susan Jeffers: Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway? It is not really appropriate for your son but it may help you to see ways of helping him - it is a book I have read several times over the years and has helped loads of other people, including my abused twin nephews who thought it great.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Educational autism--well, that's just the trouble, I have no idea what it's supposed to mean (except as she hastily assured me, it's not exactly the same as "real" autism). Which makes me go . I googled it and found nothing helpful. I have dark suspicions that it might be a new and trendy way of medicalizing weird kids with an eye to gaining extra state and federal funds.
In most cases, having the school identify a child with "educational autism" is a good thing. It usually means that the district has programs and services available for children with an autism diagnosis, that they think this child would benefit from those programs or services, and they're tying themselves up in knots to qualify the child for them.
Under the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act, a child must have one of 13 specified disabilities to qualify for special education and related services. One of the qualified disabilities is autism.
If you don't have a medical diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder, the school can either say that your child isn't qualified for an IEP (which is what usually happens). Or they can fudge the issue and identify the child as having "educational autism," and provide an IEP, specially designed education, and related services.
It's definitely a fudge, but one that is usually in the best interest of the child. (The district will likely get some Federal or state money associated with the IEP, but IDEA is only partially funded -- schools know that they'll spend far more on the child than they'll receive.)
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
I meant to add, The reason the school staff are so quick to insist that educational autism is not "real autism" is that, if they said the child has autism, they could be busted for practicing medicine without a license.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Here's another one who's parents used to have the book by the phone..." Pruning in vegetable garden"...."Weeding in herbaeceous border"...."Next door"...."Painting spare room"..."Painting at far end of lawn"...."Sleeping, please wake me at five if not up"...etc
Our home and garden was kinda rambling and I (very often) assumed that either my parents had been raptured even tho' i kinda didn't believe in all that ....there'd been an accident.....or maybe they'd got ill and wandered off.....there was a time when friends talking about aliens freaked me Right out as well....
It's a mercy that I ever made it thro my teens but i don't know that my parents ever knew about my fears? Will have to ask mum...
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I think maximising information is definitely a good idea. Like others, I see myself as a child in how you describe your son. To this day, the one thing I find most difficult is uncertainty and not instantly knowing someone I care about is OK.
I am pretty sure it just a quirk of character, probably going with other kinds of mental quickness of apprehension (in every sense).
Concentrating on the ordinary, the routine, predictable and mundane can be a counterbalance to the imaginative wildness (Today will be like every other. I will have my usual breakfast. Mom/ dad will say what they always say etc)
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
quote:
Mom/ dad will say what they always say etc
True then, and God knows, true now - for me, and my kids... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Talitha:
Before, I thought tantrums happened when they can't have something they want, and you just had to avoid giving in, and they'd stop after a few minutes. But with most of hers I can't figure out what caused them, and they go on for ages, sometimes half an hour.
Temper tantrums are developmentally appropriate for kids between the ages of one and four. In general, "normal-range" tantrums last less than 15 minutes. They don't result in self-injury or injury of other people or pets, and they don't result in damage to property. As many as three or four tantrums a day, just about every day, is pretty much normal when tantrumming is at its peak.
Normal-range tantrums can be safely ignored. Tantrums outside the normal range usually indicate that something else is going on, and it can be helpful to talk to the pediatrician. Children with speech and language delays often have more tantrums than children with age-approriate language skills, and the tantrums go on well past age four. Children who are sick or in pain may have tantrums that last well more than 15 minutes.
It can be hard to figure out what's causing severe or prolonged tantrums. (One of mine used to have severe tantrums that could go on for a couple of hours. It's no longer a problem, but it was no fun while it lasted. Not for anybody -- least of all the child.)
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Originally posted by Jenny Ann:
quote:
I wondered (in the course of writing this post) if there is anything to be gained through having less of a 'front'. One thing that made my anxieties a lot better is knowing other people get them too. Could you stage some form of low-grade anxiety thought and ask LL what he thinks you should do about the situation. He sounds like quite a mature, and clearly bright child - maybe the worries aren't actually being helped by him worrying that other people don't worry!
I have no children, so probably nothing useful to say into your situation, Lamb Chopped. But I do know that I was well into adulthood before it dawned on me - at a real, visceral, level rather than an intellectual one - that other people had fears and worries, too. I still have to remind myself of it consciously and it feels somehow surprising, for some reason. So I can see the sense of letting your son see that a little.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
I've worked with kids on the autistic spectrum all my career, and never heard of educational autism, but thought you might find this interesting here.
I know how overwhelming anxiety can be... interesting, when you first mentioned 'educational autism' I thought the women was suggesting that the school had caused it...
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Antisocial Alto
Shipmate
# 13810
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Posted
**bump**
Does anyone have experience treating a really awful diaper rash?
It's a weird one because my son is daytime potty-trained, so he only spends nighttimes in a diaper anymore. But for weeks now he's had a really miserable rash on one area of his butt. Huge red welts, some starting to crack open.
We usually put original A&D ointment (the yellow kind) on him at night, to protect the skin, but switched to the white kind with zinc when the rash got bad. It seems to have gotten worse since.
We haven't changed any household chemicals or laundry soaps that I know of.
Posts: 601 | From: United States | Registered: Jun 2008
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
Are you using disposables at all? One of mine had an aweful rash and it turned out to be a reaction to the nightime nappies.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I'd suggest calling the doctor, and possibly sending him a pic of the rash so he knows how serious it is--but in the meantime if you want to rule out allergies as much as possible, switch to pure unadulterated petroleum jelly (aka vaseline). My son has eczema, and when he's so bad he's starting to bleed, that's the only stuff we can put on that doesn't sting to high heaven. And it's unlikely to cause an allergy (and if it does, you'll know precisely what it is!).
ETA: the petroleum jelly was the dermatologist's suggestion until things improved enough to use creams.
[ 12. May 2012, 21:51: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Metanium is wonderful stuff - the only thing that killed Little J's bad nappy rashes stone dead - but it may not be available in the US, or be called something else. Here is the company website - the active ingredients seem to be various compounds of titanium.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
I would go to the doctor. DS1 had a nappy rash like this, I'd used sudocreme, metanium, you name it. The doctor prescribed a topical antibiotic cream which cleared it up very quickly and it never came back.
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Lives of the Saints: songs by The Unequal Struggle
http://www.theunequalstruggle.com/
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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Antisocial Alto
Shipmate
# 13810
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Posted
Thanks, everyone, for your replies! We've been trying plain Vaseline for a couple of nights and it seems to be really helping- there are still a few painful spots, but most of the rash has settled down a lot.
I would never have guessed that A&D ointment wasn't the best thing to try, over the counter. I'm glad I asked.
Posts: 601 | From: United States | Registered: Jun 2008
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
**bump**
Our 5 year-old is going through an argumentative/talking back stage. Most of the time, she's lovely and kind and friendly (if very talkative). But just at the moment, she will argue about almost literally anything; not just the usual "don't want to get washed and dressed" stuff - anything, even blatant, in-your-face facts. If she's in the mood, she'll argue that white is black. This morning as Mrs Stejjie was going out of the door with her and her 19-month-old sister to their childminder's, she was arguing that the door was open when it was clearly locked. That is the type of thing she'll argue about sometimes. She's convinced her birthday (at the end of October) is very soon, and won't accept our attempts to tell her that it isn't for a little while yet.
It is jut soooo frustrating. Her end-of-year report mentioned nothing about this, just her level of chattiness (which we knew about), so it seems to be us she's picking fights with, not everybody. Sometimes we just give in out of sheer exhaustion, but I kind of think that if we do that too many times it'll just encourage her. Getting angry doesn't help, either.
Any thoughts/help/pointers in the right direction gratefully received!
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Our girl does this sometimes. I blame the National Curriculum; whose idea was it to teach them debating skills?! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I don't know whether this will help you, but in similar situations we do one of the following:
1. If what she is claiming is obviously absurd (eg 'white is black'); 'I'm not going to argue with you, we need to go to school/brush your teeth/bury the gerbil now' [delete as appropriate]
2. If she is asking a question (eg 'Why are clouds that shape?') that we don't know the answer to offhand; 'I don't know/I'm not sure; let's look it up'
3. If it's something that is really important for her to understand (eg road safety), we keep arguing for as long as it takes until she gets it...
Our girl does this kind of thing for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes she's trying to find something out indirectly ('I'm not going to get any presents for Christmas!'), sometimes she's expressing insecurity ('I'll never be able to do this!').
Sometimes, of course, she's just winding us up...
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
She may be pushing you to see exactly how much authority you have.
If she can successfully get you to say that a closed door is open then the sky is the limit, and she'd be quite scared I'm guessing.
Or it may be attention seeking.
I would be firm in my first response, explanatory in my second and after that change the subject or divert her in some way.
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
Posts: 5257 | From: me to you. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Keren-Happuch
Ship's Eyeshadow
# 9818
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Posted
Ours can be like this too. It seems to me that the most important, and hardest, thing is not to get sucked into an argument. Getting angry definitely doesn't help, although I'm hopeless at staying calm. It just increases the noise level...
Jane R's responses seem very useful, and we're currently battling to establish a rule that questions will only be answered if asked in a friendly voice. We've also tried reflecting questions back - "well, why do you think that is?" - which generally gets an "I don't know!" or "I can't remember", but hey.
With the birthday thing, is it worth trying the wish fulfilment line? "You really wish your birthday would come soon, don't you?" kind of thing? "Wouldn't it be lovely if your birthday was tomorrow?"
I've recently been reading a book which recommends descriptive praise as a cure for pretty much everything. The idea being to wait till she stops arguing and praise her for having stopped, or pick a moment when she's being happy and friendly, and praise her for how nice it is to talk to her at the moment. THe theory goes that that will then encourage her to want to please you...
Anyway, I'm fairly tentative with all these ideas but hope they might be of some use...
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Travesty, treachery, betrayal!
EXCESS - The Art of Treason
Nea Fox
Posts: 2407 | From: A Fine City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Tree Bee: quote:
She may be pushing you to see exactly how much authority you have.
If she can successfully get you to say that a closed door is open then the sky is the limit,
My question is: Who has being teaching her Petruchio's techniques?
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Stejjie
Shipmate
# 13941
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Posted
Thanks all for the replies and advice. I think there's definitely an attention-seeking thing going on; I've heard advice before that when a child's doing that, you praise the good behaviour and ignore the tantrums etc, which is more or less what most of you have suggsted. It's easier said than done, though, especially when your natural instinct is to react and get angry. Praising the good behaviour seems a good strategy, too. So thanks again - we'll keep plugging away!
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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist
Posts: 1117 | From: Urmston, Manchester, UK | Registered: Jul 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Alternately, if you're a sarcastic/off the wall kind of parent, pick a random answer ("because the moon is made of green cheese") and offer it up blandly in reply to any time-wasting, don't-really-wanna-know question. Multiple times if necessary.
Your child will learn eye-rolling early, but that's not all bad. And you at least get some pleasure out of the look on her face.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Well, when really bored of why questions, the answer is Z.
Some of it may be trying to learn how to have a conversation too, as well as distraction techniques and wishful thinking and really wanting to know something.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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