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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Bishops of Chichester, Fulham and now Beverley
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Getting an apostrophe wrong bars one forever from high office in the church. It is worse than wearing a black scarf with a cassock-alb, or a fiddleback chasuble at an altar without a baroque baldacchino. It is likely to see the promising young cleric reduced to being perpetual curate of Hogglestock on a house for duty basis.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
http://www.churchofengland.org/media/35883/sbnom1.doc
Above is a detailed explanation of the appointment process for Suffragans if anyone's interested.
Of course, the process set out there is only advisory, and not followed to the letter in all cases. But you can assume that we are beyond the equivalent of Stage 9 in relation to the Bishop of Fulham appointment.
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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+Chrism
Apprentice
# 17032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pete173:
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
http://www.churchofengland.org/media/35883/sbnom1.doc
Above is a detailed explanation of the appointment process for Suffragans if anyone's interested.
Of course, the process set out there is only advisory, and not followed to the letter in all cases. But you can assume that we are beyond the equivalent of Stage 9 in relation to the Bishop of Fulham appointment.
Not too far left to go. Does the Bishop of Fulham's house still exist? or Was it sold when Monsignor John Broadhurst left?
It may just be the case that we hear about +Fulham before the ++Cantuar appointment which hopefully +Richard Londin gets.
Hopefully then +Pete Willesden might get +Londin
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+In Nomine Patris Et Filio Sancti
Posts: 38 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2012
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
Not too far left to go.
That rules +Pete out then! Would a LibDem be ok? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
Left-wing is ok but Left-wing republican might not go down so well with Mrs E. Windsor.
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
quote:
Originally posted by pete173:
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
http://www.churchofengland.org/media/35883/sbnom1.doc
Above is a detailed explanation of the appointment process for Suffragans if anyone's interested.
Of course, the process set out there is only advisory, and not followed to the letter in all cases. But you can assume that we are beyond the equivalent of Stage 9 in relation to the Bishop of Fulham appointment.
Not too far left to go. Does the Bishop of Fulham's house still exist? or Was it sold when Monsignor John Broadhurst left?
It may just be the case that we hear about +Fulham before the ++Cantuar appointment which hopefully +Richard Londin gets.
Hopefully then +Pete Willesden might get +Londin
I believe it is no secret that the new Bishop will not be living in the former episcopal residence.
Given under the revised London Plan the new +Fulham will take on an enhanced role in the Two Cities area, I very much imagine that he will be housed conveniently for that.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
I'm not sure i understand how +Fulham can be both acting Area Bishop for Westminster + the City and the Flying Bishop for FiF parishes. What about the non-FiF parishes in Westminster, or those with women priests?
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
He won't have an enhanced role in the Two Cities Area. He'll still be giving episcopal care in Southwark and Rochester. Plus carrying a Diocesan portfolio or two, I suspect (as all the senior staff do).
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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The Man with a Stick
Shipmate
# 12664
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pete173:
He won't have an enhanced role in the Two Cities Area. He'll still be giving episcopal care in Southwark and Rochester. Plus carrying a Diocesan portfolio or two, I suspect (as all the senior staff do).
Oh, sorry. Did I completely make that up, or was that the plan at some point?
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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+Chrism
Apprentice
# 17032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Man with a Stick:
quote:
Originally posted by pete173:
He won't have an enhanced role in the Two Cities Area. He'll still be giving episcopal care in Southwark and Rochester. Plus carrying a Diocesan portfolio or two, I suspect (as all the senior staff do).
Oh, sorry. Did I completely make that up, or was that the plan at some point?
The Bishop of London said "The Bishop of Fulham has signed his resignation deed and is set to retire on December 31st after well over 40 years service in various roles within the Diocese of London.
"After consultation with the Archbishop of Canterbury, I intend with the assistance of representative figures in the Diocese, to appoint a successor to the Suffragan See of Fulham. I envisage that any new Bishop of Fulham will be more closely related to me as the Bishop of London in serving the Two Cities Area.
He did not actually mean that +Fulham will have responsibility over the Two Cities Area but everything will be made clear when the London Plan is published
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+In Nomine Patris Et Filio Sancti
Posts: 38 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2012
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
That was then. This is now.
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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AngloCatholicDude
Shipmate
# 16476
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Posted
Now this is beyond the joke, my impression of +Richard Londin was never that good, I had a bit of respect for him until he published that Pastoral Letter against the use of the New Roman Rite.
As much a people like to make excuses there are none possible now for the delay with announcing the New Bishop of Fulham. I know CRB and Medicals don't take this long and even with the process of the Queen and PM it still doesn't take this long.
Richard Chartres started this process in April 2012 but yet he has not been able to organise himself to get the appointment done in the appropriate time.
+Michael Exeter started the +Crediton process in June 2012 but still managed to get his suffragan announced in October for the Consecration in November.
+Crediton will be consecrated on the same day as +Fulham's do (not necessarily +Fulham's consecration). It is time that +Londin put his foot down and said that he wants to announce it as soon as possible. It's 6 weeks till the event at the Cathedral and preparation will need to be done for Pontifical Benediction for +Fulham and so forth.
I'll keep my eye open throughout this week and if I don't see anything +Richard Londin will be getting a very strong worded email
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Trusting and Believing in the Catholic Tradition within the Church of England
Posts: 85 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2011
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
I think we all know who's going to Fulham* - that's certainly not helping the impatience.
Thurible
* well, know in the sense of there's a strongly credible rumour doing the rounds
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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+Chrism
Apprentice
# 17032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
I think we all know who's going to Fulham* - that's certainly not helping the impatience.
Thurible
* well, know in the sense of there's a strongly credible rumour doing the rounds
Yes, I think we do know who is going to Fulham but yet it is still rumours, I think it's just +Richard Londin stalling things as per usual
I certainly hope that I've heard the same as you but it's shame as Pusey House will not be the same
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+In Nomine Patris Et Filio Sancti
Posts: 38 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2012
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
What's Pusey House got to do with it? Ah, you've heard that rumour. I'm thinking of another.
The joy of rumours.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AngloCatholicDude:
I'll keep my eye open throughout this week and if I don't see anything +Richard Londin will be getting a very strong worded email
You'd better email me. He's on holiday. A well-deserved break in lieu of summer holiday. Which may give you a clue as to why there is no announcement!
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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aumbry
Shipmate
# 436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
Hopefully then +Pete Willesden might get +Londin [/QB]
The Fat Lady will be singing when that happens
Posts: 3869 | From: Quedlinburg | Registered: Jun 2001
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
First time I've ever agreed with anything posted by Aumbry.
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by AngloCatholicDude:
Richard Chartres started this process in April 2012 but yet he has not been able to organise himself to get the appointment done in the appropriate time.
+Michael Exeter started the +Crediton process in June 2012 but still managed to get his suffragan announced in October for the Consecration in November.
You can't compare them.
Crediton is merely a suffragan and the diocesan is likely to have chosen a person that he liked and wanted as a colleague.
Although Fulham is also a suffragan, he will be almost in the PEV role, owing to the oddities of the London Diocese - so he has to be someone acceptable to the so-called 'traditionalists' as well as in communion with the mainstream. That is a harder job to fill.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pete173:
First time I've ever agreed with anything posted by Aumbry.
Who among us will now deny that we live in an age of miracles and wonder?
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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AngloCatholicDude
Shipmate
# 16476
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Posted
Calm down, +Chrism. Not long now, we all know by now it's +..... (Won't say who publicly) but he will be a wonderful addition to the London Team and I am sure he'll fit in just fine.
Now the bets start on who will replace him and whether ++Cantuar will try to get the process started before he retires
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Trusting and Believing in the Catholic Tradition within the Church of England
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AngloCatholicDude
Shipmate
# 16476
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Do we? I don't (though i don't much care).
Is there some sort of anglo-catholic grapevine from which I have been excluded because I sold out to affcath?
Of course not, us Forward in Faith members are lovely people. It's not my place to publicly announce it but be assured it will be done very soon. HINT:- If you put 2&2 together you could simply work it out but it's for Downing Street to publicly announce it
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Trusting and Believing in the Catholic Tradition within the Church of England
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I sympathise, leo.
But though I have never been keen on the label 'anglo-catholic', I would rather hang onto it than allow a minority of conservatives to claim it for themselves alone. Anglo-catholicism is alive and well in many places that will have no truck with F in F.
I respect them, and acknowledge them as fellow-anglicans, but deny their claim to be the only true catholics in the C of E.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Sympathy! But I suspect you were more 'into' it at one time than I have ever been. I'm a sort of on-the-edge catholic, as I'm an on-the-edge most things.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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pete173
Shipmate
# 4622
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Posted
Fulham announcement by the end of the month.
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Pete
Posts: 1653 | From: Kilburn, London NW6 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Please don't take this as a criticism of Fr North, of whom I know little, but that little is good. I'm sure he will be an excellent bishop. It's just that it seems to be taken for granted that successive Bishops of Whitby will all be from the same tradition. Does this mean that the next Bishop of Lewes will have to belong to Reform?
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
I imagine the conservative evangelicals in the diocese hope so.
Was Whitby a 'catholic' see pre-Robert Ladds?
I think it quite, hmm, amusing (at a push) that +Sentamu has managed to appoint a PEV and a 'normal' suffragan in the past few months whereas things clearly run a little slower in London!
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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+Chrism
Apprentice
# 17032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
I imagine the conservative evangelicals in the diocese hope so.
Was Whitby a 'catholic' see pre-Robert Ladds?
I think it quite, hmm, amusing (at a push) that +Sentamu has managed to appoint a PEV and a 'normal' suffragan in the past few months whereas things clearly run a little slower in London!
Thurible
+Gordon Bates was not "Catholics" although a few before him were. I understand where many might come from but it keeps the level in a Diocese.
2 Evangelical Suffragan's and 2 Catholic Suffragans. Things have always been slow in London, the next appointment will probably be +Edmonton within the next year or 2. Bishop Peter Wheatley wants to go before he's 70
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+In Nomine Patris Et Filio Sancti
Posts: 38 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2012
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
From what I gather from Dame Rumour and her Grapevine, I think Bp Peter might announce his retirement sooner rather than later once the new Bishop of Fulham is in post. (And then we'll all be able to start guessing which early 90s, Staggers-bag will be next to wear a mitre.)
Thurible
[ 19. October 2012, 17:48: Message edited by: Thurible ]
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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+Chrism
Apprentice
# 17032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
From what I gather from Dame Rumour and her Grapevine, I think Bp Peter might announce his retirement sooner rather than later once the new Bishop of Fulham is in post. (And then we'll all be able to start guessing which early 90s, Staggers-bag will be next to wear a mitre.)
Thurible
It will be a Millfield/Cuddesdon guy for +Edmonton and I know it will definetly be a traditionalist appointment for the Edmonton Area. Late +Brian Masters and +Peter Wheatley have looked after Edmonton very well over the last 27 years.
It's only because it's +Richard that I'm hopeful for a traditionalist appointment. Hopefully +Peter Edmonton doesn't announce it till late next year or 2014/15
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+In Nomine Patris Et Filio Sancti
Posts: 38 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2012
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
From what I gather from Dame Rumour and her Grapevine, I think Bp Peter might announce his retirement sooner rather than later once the new Bishop of Fulham is in post. (And then we'll all be able to start guessing which early 90s, Staggers-bag will be next to wear a mitre.)
Thurible
It will be a Millfield/Cuddesdon guy for +Edmonton
Great news - we haven't had a bishop from one of the great sporting public schools for a long time!
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Don't be mean.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Was Whitby a 'catholic' see pre-Robert Ladds?
+Gordon Bates was not "Catholics" although a few before him were.
![[Confused]](confused.gif) That does seem a very tightly-drawn definition of 'catholic'. +Gordon Bates was Kelham-trained and AFAIK refused to ordain women. What more do you want? (If I'm wrong about the latter I can see where you are coming from, but otherwise...?)
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I remember Fr. North from pilgrimage times, and wish him all the best. Especially as I seem to recall him buying me a pint over an issue relating to some NT Greek.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Just think if he'd been appointed to the diocese of Chichester. He'd have to change his name to Fr South.
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Please don't take this as a criticism of Fr North, of whom I know little, but that little is good. I'm sure he will be an excellent bishop. It's just that it seems to be taken for granted that successive Bishops of Whitby will all be from the same tradition. Does this mean that the next Bishop of Lewes will have to belong to Reform?
Good point. I wonder how many parishes in his new episcopal area oppose women priests. Very few I would,imagine.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
Local knowledge might be useful here.
There is a sort of tradition in the Diocese of York that the Suffragan Bishop of Hull leans Low because Hull tends towards Open Evangelicalism. +Whitby, which covers Middlesbrough, leans High because the major town in the area has a lot of Anglo-Catholic parishes. It just makes sense to have someone who can use a thurible correctly at Whitby.
The third suffragan to York, +Selby, has tended to be MOTR but I have not got a clue as to which way the present incumbant leans. I think he is still a MOTR-High guy appointed by ++Hope, ++Sentamu not yet having had the chance to appoint to Selby. Unless I missed something, which is pretty easy to do from 6000 miles away.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
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Earwig
Pincered Beastie
# 12057
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Posted
AFAIK, our current +Hull is pretty middle-MOTR, and +Selby is low-MOTR.
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+Chrism
Apprentice
# 17032
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Posted
+Whitby has been within the Catholic wing for a good few years now and I am glad that the tradition has been stuck too.
Fr North will be like +Martin Chichester, he will be eager to build a good working relationship with his female colleagues. I am extremely happy by the news and think +John Sentamu is a legend.
I hope that +Blackburn gets a traditionalist Bishop, it has been a trad cath diocese for the last 23 years. I know whoever is appointed will be gracious enough to work with women priests.
NOT LONG TILL THE OFFICIAL +Fulham ANNOUNCEMENT - Hold onto your seats
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+In Nomine Patris Et Filio Sancti
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3rdFooter
Shipmate
# 9751
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Just think if he'd been appointed to the diocese of Chichester. He'd have to change his name to Fr South.
But if he went father south from Chichester, he'd be in the oggin, or worse, France.
[ 23. October 2012, 00:18: Message edited by: 3rdFooter ]
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3F - Shunter in the sidings of God's Kingdom
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
I hope that +Blackburn gets a traditionalist Bishop, it has been a trad cath diocese for the last 23 years. I know whoever is appointed will be gracious enough to work with women priests.
You know, I don't get this. If I were a 'traditionalist' [sic] in a diocese with a long succession of liberal MOTR bishops, I'd be hoping that we would get a conservative next time round. So similarly, if I were liberal/MOTR in a diocese like Blackburn or Chichester, I'd probably wish for a like-minded bishop. In theory.
In practice, the churchpersonship of a bishop has very little to do with the style of the diocese, makes little difference practically unless he refuses to ordain women, and impinges hardly at all on the day to day life of parishes. As long as the C of E is a broad church, all of us, whatever our predilections, should be glad to have the whole breadth reflected in the bench of bishops. But labelling whole dioceses as 'catholic' or 'liberal' or 'evangelical' is not true to the facts nor helpful as a policy. So as long as the 'traditionalists' have fair representation across the church as a whole, why should they want to cling on to particular dioceses?
I'm writing from a diocese which is often labelled 'evangelical', and indeed has always had a bishop more or less from that constituency. But although it probably has a more than average share of evangelical parishes, it is far from monochrome. An anglo-catholic bishop would learn a lot, and teach us a lot. I used to work in Southwark diocese which has a 'liberal catholic' reputation, yet one of its best diocesan bishops was Roy Williamson, a Belfast protestant.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by +Chrism:
I know whoever is appointed will be gracious enough to work with women priests.
Gosh, that's very nice of him. How self-sacrifical and humble he must be to be so gracious.
Readin what you wrote there makes me, for the first time ever, half want General Synod to just pass a one-line motion saying women can be bishops.
And that the next bishop of Blackburn is the first one. I'm sure that whoever she is she will be gracious enough to work with the extremist anti-women Anglo-Catholics in the diocese.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Ken: ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 3rdFooter:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Just think if he'd been appointed to the diocese of Chichester. He'd have to change his name to Fr South.
But if he went father south from Chichester, he'd be in the oggin, or worse, France.
Bishop of the see of the sea?
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