|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Vivat Ricardus Rex!
|
Sighthound
Shipmate
# 15185
|
Posted
There is no statute that I am aware of than bans people from forming societies relating to these other monarchs. It is up to their admirers/ people who are interested (if any) to do so.
There was at one time a Henry VI Society seeking canonization of that king. I suspect it may be dormant or defunct.
--------------------
Supporter of Tia Greyhound and Lurcher Rescue.http://tiagreyhounds.org/
Posts: 168 | From: England | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
There is no statute that I am aware of than bans people from forming societies relating to these other monarchs. It is up to their admirers/ people who are interested (if any) to do so.
There was at one time a Henry VI Society seeking canonization of that king. I suspect it may be dormant or defunct.
Indeed, Henry VI has long had quite a cult attached to him.
--------------------
Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Enoch: quote:
Could the enthusiasts actually answer this question please?
He was king for two years, over 500 years ago. He achieved nothing. He left no legacy apart from a suspicion that he was responsible for killing his nephews. Other monarchs with short reigns don't have societies committed to revisiting their memory. There is no Edward VI, Jane, Mary, James II or William IV society - unless one calls the RCC the Mary and James II Society. Why this one?
Ahem. This is only from Wiki, and others can say if they have it wrong but...
quote:
In December 1483, Richard instituted what later became known as the Court of Requests, a court to which poor people who could not afford legal representation could apply for their grievances to be heard.[55] He also introduced bail in January 1484, to protect suspected felons from imprisonment before trial and to protect their property from seizure during that time.[56] He founded the College of Arms in 1484,[57] he banned restrictions on the printing and sale of books,[58] and he ordered the translation of the written Laws and Statutes from the traditional French into English.[59]
Small claims court, bail, College of Arms, some sort of medieval freedom of the press, and the law translated into the vernacular. I'd say that was a reasonably good legacy for two years' work.
Quite so, Lyda*Rose, thank you for posting this before I did! A good record indeed for 2 years' reign.
I originally got interested in him through Shakespeare's play, and having been a Ricardian now for several decades the fascination has not diminished, and the more I find out about the complications of the politics and the twisty ins-and-outs of his life and times the more there is to find out!
Anyway, later today we're off to a Society meeting and no doubt there'll be mobs of excited Ricardians milling about gawping at the facial reconstruction... ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
--------------------
Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
Apparantly the team who discovered Richard IIIs bones under the car park in Leicester are now digging up Tesco's car park to see if they can find his horse!
--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
|
Posted
The Economist labels Richard III, England's most controversial King
I dunno, wasn't Charles Stuart fairly controversial.
--------------------
It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
|
Posted
Possibly one of the more controversial in terms of modern reputation, but I don't think Richard III was very controversial at the time.
--------------------
Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
|
Posted
There wasn't "controversy" as we know it, mainly because anyone who disagreed with the New Regime was well-advised to keep their mouths shut!
--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
So perhaps some of the contributors here could explain why they have such a high regard for this king?
I really would be most interested to learn more about this subject.
Could the enthusiasts actually answer this question please?
He was king for two years, over 500 years ago. He achieved nothing. He left no legacy apart from a suspicion that he was responsible for killing his nephews. Other monarchs with short reigns don't have societies committed to revisiting their memory. There is no Edward VI, Jane, Mary, James II or William IV society - unless one calls the RCC the Mary and James II Society. Why this one?
If they'd had Shakespeare writing such memorable lines for them, they might!
I certainly got hooked in via Shakespeare - used to read the Complete Plays at my grandmother's as a wee bit lassie, and RIII really stood out. Read about everything I could get my hands on about the Tudors and Plantagenets when I was a little older. Read _The Daughter of Time_ as a young woman and had my world rocked.
I definitely think the fascination is connected with Shakespeare/Henry VIII/Elizabeth.
(Speaking of Henry VIII, I would love some talented alt.historian to imagine what would have happened if Katherine of Aragon had given him living son(s). Paging Harry Turtledove!)
--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TomM:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
It would be really cool if they got the Archbishop of Westminster to do the Requiem.
According to the Medieval Franciscan use?
I don't know if this was meant as a passing joke or not but in case it wasn't, unlike other orders the Franciscans did not have their own "use", they used the Roman Rite.
Actually, most if not all of the medieval "uses" practiced in England were forms of the Roman Rite, including the Sarum Use (Use of Salisbury).
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
By his own beliefs and the teaching of the church at the time, he presumably ought to be buried in unconsecrated ground as he died without confession ?
Others already pointed out that he would've gone to confession before heading off to battle but I wouldn't have thought that under normal circumstances not receiving confession before dying wasn't enough to keep one from being buried in unconsecrated ground either, at least in recent centuries (although one always hopes to receive the "last rites" before dying).
It would've been a problem (since changed) if he had committed suicide but that's because back then we didn't understand the effects of depression and mental illness on the decisions people make.
If his bad reputation were true he might need extra masses and prayers said for him, though!
--------------------
“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
The Economist labels Richard III, England's most controversial King
I had to see the page of the Book of Hours that's mentioned in this article - I was tickled by the idea of his writing in his birthday in one - but why not? Anyway, here it is. The handwriting looks quite confident and polished - no faltering here, this is someone well used to writing, and fluent in Latin, and a little flourish on the X of Rex suggests to me that he enjoyed his role (at least, at the time of writing, anyhow).
I never had any particular interest in him before, but the reconstruction of the skull and now this have made him seem much more of a real person.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
|
Posted
Amazing Grace: quote:
(Speaking of Henry VIII, I would love some talented alt.historian to imagine what would have happened if Katherine of Aragon had given him living son(s). Paging Harry Turtledove!)
Or, indeed, if his older brother had lived and had children by Katherine. Given the number of women Henry seems to have had sex with, and the very few children who were produced, the problem with fertility may well have rested with him, rather than his wives. Which he would have found an insulting idea, I'm quite sure!
--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Given the number of women Henry seems to have had sex with, and the very few children who were produced, the problem with fertility may well have rested with him, rather than his wives. Which he would have found an insulting idea, I'm quite sure!
It has been suggested that he had syphilis, which might account for all the stillborn babies.
Moo
--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
He must have had suspicions I think (quote after Anne's last loss: "I see God will not give ME children"). Though his very well trained ego promptly buried them under six feet of horse shit. As far as I recall, he never managed to have more than a single living child with any woman, even illegitimately, which seems a bit odd. And I believe they were all first conceptions. I wish I knew more about possible syndromes that could cause this. Rh disease seems unlikely with so many women involved.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Just did some googling--hemolytic disease of the newborn can also be caused by a mismatch in Kell factor blood antigens (?), and if HVIII happened to be homozygous positive for Kell factor, he'd be apt to cause a lot of trouble among the more than 90% of women who are negative. That could easily result in one chance for a baby and disaster from then on out,no matter how many women he ran through. And he would have had to go some distance to find a Kell positive woman who could actually carry a second child to healthy birth for him, as they're very rare on the ground. That is, if I'm understanding all this correctly.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
Recently read Hilary Mantel's first two installments of her fictionalized biography of Cromwell. In it she suggests (and I doubt she's the first) that whispers of adultery against Anne Boleyn may well have resulted from that lady's efforts to become pregnant once she realized that Henry was unlikely to sire living children with her.
Is there any doubt, though, that Mary and Elizabeth were his?
[ 10. February 2013, 00:44: Message edited by: Porridge ]
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Piglet
Islander
# 11803
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Hilary Mantel ... suggests (and I doubt she's the first) that whispers of adultery against Anne Boleyn may well have resulted from that lady's efforts to become pregnant ...
Philippa Gregory suggests in The Other Boleyn Girl that the accusation of incest with her brother had its foundations in her desperation to produce a live, male heir.
--------------------
I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
|
Posted
While we're speaking of historical fiction, I have to recommend a book that hasn't yet been mentioned (unless I missed it) on this thread, although I did promote it quite a bit when we read The Daughter of Time as a book club selection awhile back.
To anyone interested in a well-researched and sympathetic portrait of Richard III, I highly recommend Sharon Kay Penman's novel The Sunne in Splendour. I read it long before reading either Shakespeare's play or Tey's Daughter of Time and it is wholly responsible for my ongoing fascination with Richard. Re-reading it in recent years from a more mature perspective (I first read it in my early 20s but have read it many times since then) I think her Richard is perhaps a bit TOO blameless, but still feels very real, as does the entire world and cast of characters surrounding him.
Also, as Philippa Gregory has been mentioned, I don't find her as consistently good a novelist as Penman, but her series of novels about the women involved in the Wars of the Roses (Lady of the Rivers, The White Queen, The Red Queen, The Kingmaker's Daughter) have some interesting perspectives on the era. I think The Red Queen, about Margaret Beaufort, is brilliant -- such a good job of taking a thoroughly unsympathetic character and making her real and vivid while still remaining completely unsympathetic.
--------------------
Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
To anyone interested in a well-researched and sympathetic portrait of Richard III, I highly recommend Sharon Kay Penman's novel The Sunne in Splendour.
Thanks, I was hoping someone would recommend a good historical novel on Richard III. I'll look out for this.
[ 10. February 2013, 12:36: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Just did some googling--hemolytic disease of the newborn can also be caused by a mismatch in Kell factor blood antigens (?), and if HVIII happened to be homozygous positive for Kell factor, he'd be apt to cause a lot of trouble among the more than 90% of women who are negative. That could easily result in one chance for a baby and disaster from then on out,no matter how many women he ran through. And he would have had to go some distance to find a Kell positive woman who could actually carry a second child to healthy birth for him, as they're very rare on the ground. That is, if I'm understanding all this correctly.
The problem with that suggestion is that his eldest child, Mary, was born seven years into his marriage after his first wife Catherine had had several miscarriages.
--------------------
Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
To anyone interested in a well-researched and sympathetic portrait of Richard III, I highly recommend Sharon Kay Penman's novel The Sunne in Splendour.
Thanks, I was hoping someone would recommend a good historical novel on Richard III. I'll look out for this.
There is also Rosemary Hawley Jarman's We Speak No Treason, which is told from the viewpoint of several people who know Richard. This was her first novel, and she wrote several others, including one about Elizabeth Woodville, The King's Grey Mare.
We Speak No Treason is strongly pro-Richard, rather flowery and romantic - I loved it when it was first published, and wept buckets!
There is also the rather extraordinary The Court of the Midnight King, by Freda Warrington. This was suggested to me by Amazon (as it does), and I will say no more about it except there is a strong fantastical, otherworldly element to it. It made me go 'Huh???!'
--------------------
Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
|
Posted
John Ford's The Dragon Waiting is another (dark) fantasy featuring Richard III.
--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Quinine
Shipmate
# 1668
|
Posted
Has anyone else read Marjorie Bowen's Dickon? It was the first historical novel about Richard III I ever read (only coming across the Penman novel much later). That was a very long time ago but I remember her portrait was sympathetic, very melancholic.
Posts: 252 | From: In a fen | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
Is there any doubt, though, that Mary and Elizabeth were his?
Would be interesting to know. Think we could generate an exhumation order for QEI and the lecherous old bastard to find out?
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
|
Posted
A contrarian history I read - and whose name I can't at the moment recall - argued that Mary knew Elizabeth was not her (half) sister. Principal evidence was that she would not accede to Elizabeth's marriage to Spanish nobility, despite Philip proposing it. Same chap also argued that Leicester and Elizabeth connived at the death of Amy Robsart, but Cecil knew and blackmailed them ever afterwards.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Quinine:
Has anyone else read Marjorie Bowen's Dickon? It was the first historical novel about Richard III I ever read (only coming across the Penman novel much later). That was a very long time ago but I remember her portrait was sympathetic, very melancholic.
Yes! I *love* it - my brother got it for me many moons (not to say decades) ago, and it's a 1934 reprint (first published 1929). I've seen modern copies with a soppy cover but I love my 1934 hardback copy ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif) .
It's a very good, sympathetic read, again with a slightly supernatural air in the figure of Sir John Fogg. And the epitaph at the front is very poignant:
'...England I was once and Gloucester...
Thou, passing by, above my dust
Give me thy prayers and charity.'
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
[eta for spleling]
[ 10. February 2013, 17:38: Message edited by: Pine Marten ]
--------------------
Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
STOOOOPPPPP!!!!!
My bedside table runneth over!
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Quinine
Shipmate
# 1668
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
quote:
Originally posted by Quinine:
Has anyone else read Marjorie Bowen's Dickon? It was the first historical novel about Richard III I ever read (only coming across the Penman novel much later). That was a very long time ago but I remember her portrait was sympathetic, very melancholic.
Yes! I *love* it - my brother got it for me many moons (not to say decades) ago, and it's a 1934 reprint (first published 1929). I've seen modern copies with a soppy cover but I love my 1934 hardback copy .
It's a very good, sympathetic read, again with a slightly supernatural air in the figure of Sir John Fogg. And the epitaph at the front is very poignant:
'...England I was once and Gloucester...
Thou, passing by, above my dust
Give me thy prayers and charity.'
[eta for spleling]
Ah yes, Sir John Fogg. It's coming back to me a bit more now. Alas, my copy has been lost in the mists of time. (It was a relatively modern, secondhand paperback - 1970s possibly.) My late mother might have given it to me - she was a great Richard III fan.
Posts: 252 | From: In a fen | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pine Marten
Shipmate
# 11068
|
Posted
One can never have enough books, Porridge ![[Biased]](wink.gif) .
--------------------
Keep love in your heart. A life without it is like a sunless garden when the flowers are dead. - Oscar Wilde
Posts: 1731 | From: Isle of Albion | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Amazing Grace: quote:
(Speaking of Henry VIII, I would love some talented alt.historian to imagine what would have happened if Katherine of Aragon had given him living son(s). Paging Harry Turtledove!)
Or, indeed, if his older brother had lived and had children by Katherine. Given the number of women Henry seems to have had sex with, and the very few children who were produced, the problem with fertility may well have rested with him, rather than his wives. Which he would have found an insulting idea, I'm quite sure!
While I agree re Henry's fertility or lack of it, for a monarch of his time Henry was actually not particularly promiscuous. He had very few mistresses that we know about, preferring serial monogamy instead - which is quite unusual in medieval/early modern kings. Compared to Francois I of France, he was virtually a monk!
--------------------
Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
|
Posted
I loved Marjorie Bowen's 'Viper of Milan', which I came across in a children's library when I first started work as a librarian. Despite having three half-read books on the go, I'll have to add 'Dickon' to the list.
--------------------
'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
One can never have enough books, Porridge .
One already has double-packed bookshelves, however.
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
STOOOOPPPPP!!!!!
My bedside table runneth over!
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
One already has double-packed bookshelves, however.
How about building a platform of books and standing the bedside table on top of it?
--------------------
Talk about books -any books- on our rejuvenatedforum http://www.bookgrouponline.com/index.php?
Posts: 3060 | From: Sussex By The Sea | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Just did some googling--hemolytic disease of the newborn can also be caused by a mismatch in Kell factor blood antigens (?), and if HVIII happened to be homozygous positive for Kell factor, he'd be apt to cause a lot of trouble among the more than 90% of women who are negative. That could easily result in one chance for a baby and disaster from then on out,no matter how many women he ran through. And he would have had to go some distance to find a Kell positive woman who could actually carry a second child to healthy birth for him, as they're very rare on the ground. That is, if I'm understanding all this correctly.
The problem with that suggestion is that his eldest child, Mary, was born seven years into his marriage after his first wife Catherine had had several miscarriages.
Catherine had also produced two sons who were born alive but died in infancy (as babies, alas, often did in those days). (Again, before Mary was born.)
--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Amazing Grace: quote:
(Speaking of Henry VIII, I would love some talented alt.historian to imagine what would have happened if Katherine of Aragon had given him living son(s). Paging Harry Turtledove!)
Or, indeed, if his older brother had lived and had children by Katherine. Given the number of women Henry seems to have had sex with, and the very few children who were produced, the problem with fertility may well have rested with him, rather than his wives. Which he would have found an insulting idea, I'm quite sure!
Somebody's already posited the former in fiction, with Henry, Duke of York (as he was) cast as the wicked attempted-usurping uncle! N.B. Arthur was still dead in that scenario, but had a posthumous son.
Personally I think that Henry was just unlucky in his first spouse's fertility, wasn't with the next two that long, and was likely infertile during his last three marriages.
I don't, however, think he would have been quite the pop culture "rock star" if he had son(s) by his first marriage, thus obviating his percieved need to put Catherine asides for someone who could give him sons. I think he would have remarried after she died but not the whole "six wives" thing! There are huge implications for the path of the Reformation in England as well. (Back to Richard III ... maybe Greyfriars wouldn't have been dissolved, causing R3's bones to go missing for nearly five hundred years.)
--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Roseofsharon:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
STOOOOPPPPP!!!!!
My bedside table runneth over!
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
One already has double-packed bookshelves, however.
How about building a platform of books and standing the bedside table on top of it?
Screw that. Build a platform out of books, add pillow and blanket, and you' re good to go.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
Well, extreme discomfort may be a reasonable excuse for staying up all night reading, but it's not the most appealing one.
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
|
Posted
*****, now seemeth it vertu to us ****es that alle converse anent thys king, be spake like unto the tymes wherein he was on lyf.
**** gentles, doeth so.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
|
Posted
That certayne wordes will nat appear is eke a jape.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
|
Posted
Mais, forsooth, fayre damsels all, hath none thinketh of the aloneness of thys moste holie Kinge sans fils or wyffe? For theye departeth thys mortal coyl before the Bosworth Fyeld whereat our most gracyous liege Lorde was foully slain?
--------------------
Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
So say ye, gentlefolk alle, that yon king, the which was never a lik, cam to swich despayr as to tak upon his immortal soule that most grievous act of selfe-mordere by the hand of his owne enemie?
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Mais*, forsooth, fayre damsels all, hath none thinketh of the aloneness of thys moste holie Kinge sans fils or wyffe? For theye departeth thys mortal coyl before the Bosworth Fyeld whereat our most gracyous liege Lorde was foully slain?
Frankish. Thou naughty varlet! Wottest thee that not all men speake this tongue?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
