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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: MW2341: Grace Cathedral SF
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
Finding it in various places, including the opening of the Trinity Sunday service at Washington National Cathedral, among other places. So, if the OP is asking for a source--not sure. But if instead it's a "Isn't this wacky" (which the following post seems to take it as), I'd say it's looks fairly common.
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
The report on Grace Cathedral records the opening words as 'Blessed be the one holy and living God.'
Where does that come from?
I believe it's from Enriching Our Worship, an authorized inclusive-language supplement published by Church Publishing.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
But if instead it's a "Isn't this wacky" (which the following post seems to take it as), I'd say it's looks fairly common.
Yeah, that stumps me as well. It's hardly a punk-rock lyric or anything.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
On the other hand, this sucks beyond words (from the MW):
quote:
There was coffee and tea only, dispensed in plastic recyclable cups. After taking a coffee I hung around for about ten minutes and was not spoken to by anyone.
Really? Badly done, Grace. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
The report on Grace Cathedral records the opening words as 'Blessed be the one holy and living God.'
Where does that come from?
I have run into it in Jewish accounts. I think that it's 18th century in origin.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Finding it in various places, including the opening of the Trinity Sunday service at Washington National Cathedral, among other places...
Certainly an odd choice for Trinity Sunday. That, of all days, should use the standard "Blessed be God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
How the heck does one respond to this one?
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
The Divine Liturgy of St John Crysostom begins
PRIEST: Blessed is the Kingdom of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: now and ever, and unto ages of ages.
That may have given them the idea.
At least they are beginning with a liturgical greeting, rather "Good morning, everyone and a very warm welcome to our eucharist particularly if you're visiting. Coffee and tea are served in the hall afterwards and if you are new here we would love to see you. This week is Doris Smith's eighty seventh birthday on Tuesday, and I'm sure we all wish her, Fred, Tracey, Wayne and the grandchildren the very best. Our service begins on page 3 of the service book, or page 5 if you have the blue books and we all say together "And also with you" after my introduction. And so we meet in the name of the Father..."
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
C of E, are you, O venbede, by any chance?? ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Seriously, though, this does seem an odd intro to a service on Trinity Sunday (however hard that doctrine may be to explain or understand).
Otherwise, seems OK to me. IMHO.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem... ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
[ 07. March 2012, 21:00: Message edited by: Siegfried ]
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
It's not the first loony experiment at that Cathedral. The old seat of +Pike it was after all
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
The report on Grace Cathedral records the opening words as 'Blessed be the one holy and living God.'
Where does that come from?
I believe it's from Enriching Our Worship, an authorized inclusive-language supplement published by Church Publishing.
That is correct. It is one of five Opening Acclamations (based on liturgical season) for The Holy Eucharist. Page 50.
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
How the heck does one respond to this one?
The indicated response is, "Glory to God for ever and ever."
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I've no problem with the text: but it's a pity not to stick to a common text which can be said by heart without checking in the book.
Yes, Bishop's Finger. You guessed.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem...
Just wanted to let you know I saw that, Sieg, and I got it. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem...
As I recall that was a subplot in some of the Tales of the City books. But wasn't that based on a real episode?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
Well they do seem to have Choral Evensong which I think is not all that common the other side of the pond. Definitely a point in its favour
So it canx't be that bad! ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Royal Spaniel:
Well they do seem to have Choral Evensong which I think is not all that common the other side of the pond. Definitely a point in its favour
So it canx't be that bad!
I find the acclamation to be one of the best inclusive language ones that I have encountered. It doesn't slip into modalism.
That being said, I have visited many TEC places in real life, and the only time I've encountered this acclamation is at the aforementioned places, through their webcasts.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem...
As I recall that was a subplot in some of the Tales of the City books. But wasn't that based on a real episode?
Oh, good heavens, no. He made it all up.
From and SF Gate article:
quote:
I was constantly pushing the envelope," says Maupin, mentioning Gordon Pates, The Chronicle's managing editor then. "A lovely, avuncular man, he used to say to me: 'It's such a waste you're not dating girls. Homosexuality, transexuality, adultery --
the only thing you haven't got in here is cannibalism' -- and I immediately went back to my desk and concocted (a cannibal cult that practiced on the catwalk of Grace Cathedral)."
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/05/01/DD205566.DTL#ixzz1oYld96QQ
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
I had read the stories before I ever had a chance to visit Grace Cathedral. I'll admit I looked around for the elevator, and tried to spot catwalks up above the vaulting.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Royal Spaniel:
Well they do seem to have Choral Evensong which I think is not all that common the other side of the pond. Definitely a point in its favour
So it canx't be that bad!
Furthermore, I'm told that their arrangement for schooling the choristers at the cathedral school makes it the closest thing to a choir school in the entire country after St. Thomas 5th Ave.
Maintaining a first-rate choir of men and boys as the principal and standard singing group is a commitment that neither the National Cathedral nor Saint John the Divine has maintained. Not bad at all for a place that gets regularly dissed as loony-tunes.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
I'm sure that there are much better examples of bizarre practices in San Francisco churches.
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NatDogg
Shipmate
# 14347
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Maintaining a first-rate choir of men and boys as the principal and standard singing group is a commitment that neither the National Cathedral nor Saint John the Divine has maintained. [/QB]
Okay Alogon, what have you against the National Cathedral Choir of Men and Boys? (I guess I won't even ask about the Men and Girls. . . )
Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
I'm sure that there are much better examples of bizarre practices in San Francisco churches.
St.Gregory of Nyssa,perhaps? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Royal Spaniel:
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
I'm sure that there are much better examples of bizarre practices in San Francisco churches.
St.Gregory of Nyssa,perhaps?
Pfft. St. Gregory's downright sedate and middle of the road compared to
Saint John Will-I-Am Coltrane African Orthodox Church.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NatDogg:
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Maintaining a first-rate choir of men and boys as the principal and standard singing group is a commitment that neither the National Cathedral nor Saint John the Divine has maintained.
Okay Alogon, what have you against the National Cathedral Choir of Men and Boys? (I guess I won't even ask about the Men and Girls. . . )
I have nothing against the choir itself, only the way it is eclipsed by other groups whenever any particularly high-profile service comes along. It's the paid mixed choir standing on risers in the crossing that really ticks me off. Who needs'em? Waste of money. One can hear a group like that in the nearest high school auditorium.
[ 09. March 2012, 19:59: Message edited by: Alogon ]
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
Back to the original question, this is clearly one of those efforts to avoid the Trinitarian formula "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" because of the masculine nouns.
This is better than the "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" heresy, but not much.
So now we have a Unitarian formula in Enriching our Worship in addition to a heretical trinitarian one. Isn't that special.
[ 09. March 2012, 23:02: Message edited by: tomb ]
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
BTW, The Offspring went to worship at Grace while in the Bay Area for his cousin's graduation from Berkley a while back. He attended their "traditional" service, the congregation for which was composed, in his words, of "tatooed teens and twenties with more piercings than body parts, and blue-hairs."
Of course, he hit it off with the blue-hairs and has a good impression of the place. They invited him to coffee hour and afterwords took him out and fed him. Nothing like old people buying you food to give you a favorable impression of a place.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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NatDogg
Shipmate
# 14347
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Posted
Look, I think that Grace has had its moments, but it is NOTHING compared to some of the liturgical shenanigans that we ALL have seen. (Think of the crystals at St. John the Divine.)
I agree with some other posters, any cathedral that maintains a full choir of men and boys and a full choral Eucharist every Sunday is doing something right. . .
Posts: 139 | Registered: Dec 2008
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George6833
Apprentice
# 14995
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Posted
Just back to the issue of Choirs of Men and Boys, you might consider the quite splendid choirs of both Saint Paul, R.C., Cambridge and the choir of Men and Boys at all Saints' Ashmont, Massachusetts. Long traditions and lovely to hear. St. Paul's has a full time academic school associated and compulsory. Ashmont doesn't have the resources for such at this point, but the boys are worked very hard, and it shows. I'm probably not supposed to do this in this forum but I want the world to know that they will be collaborating at St. Paul's on the 11th in the afternoon for Vespers.........
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Keep what is Holy, Holy.
Wholly keep our creation sacred.
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tomb:
Back to the original question, this is clearly one of those efforts to avoid the Trinitarian formula "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" because of the masculine nouns.
This is better than the "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" heresy, but not much.
So now we have a Unitarian formula in Enriching our Worship in addition to a heretical trinitarian one. Isn't that special.
It would be important to note that "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" isn't necessarily modalist. Depends on whether or not one understands the descriptors as applying to the three Persons of the Trinity, or conversely understands the words in a non-orthodox way as merely describing functional modes of the Godhead. The ambiguity, of course, is problematic.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Based on the report, it does appear that they've resolved that cannibal cult problem...
Just wanted to let you know I saw that, Sieg, and I got it.
I sure did too, and I laughed.
I certainly thought of it when churchgeek gave me the behind-the-scenes tour including STAFF ONLY levels in the elevator.
All made up, as Kel says. There were certainly shenanigans going on at Grace back in the wild and wooly days, but that wasn't part of it.
AG (member of the congregation for 18 years)
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
On the other hand, this sucks beyond words (from the MW):
quote:
There was coffee and tea only, dispensed in plastic recyclable cups. After taking a coffee I hung around for about ten minutes and was not spoken to by anyone.
Really? Badly done, Grace.
This wasn't uncommon in my experience. Although there were usually goodies.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
quote:
Originally posted by tomb:
Back to the original question, this is clearly one of those efforts to avoid the Trinitarian formula "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" because of the masculine nouns.
This is better than the "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" heresy, but not much.
So now we have a Unitarian formula in Enriching our Worship in addition to a heretical trinitarian one. Isn't that special.
It would be important to note that "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" isn't necessarily modalist. Depends on whether or not one understands the descriptors as applying to the three Persons of the Trinity, or conversely understands the words in a non-orthodox way as merely describing functional modes of the Godhead. The ambiguity, of course, is problematic.
If we want to include lists of descriptions of God in terms of actions in creation, then I always think it's a good idea not to have a list of three... "In the name of God, Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier and Sustainer" makes much clearer that the descriptors don't apply individually to the persons of the Most Holy Trinity.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
It would be important to note that "Creator, Redeemer, Sanctifier" isn't necessarily modalist.
In my younger days, our liturgy (of the Danish-West Norwegian lineage) began with a prayer, "O Lord, our Maker, Redeemer, and Comforter..." The way it was phrased managed to avoid a modalist controversy, and with the exception of one word that could have easily been modified it actually was gender inclusive.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
On the other hand, this sucks beyond words (from the MW):
quote:
There was coffee and tea only, dispensed in plastic recyclable cups. After taking a coffee I hung around for about ten minutes and was not spoken to by anyone.
Really? Badly done, Grace.
This wasn't uncommon in my experience. Although there were usually goodies.
Every time I've gone there, I have been "with people," so haven't had a chance to be neglected. But I have participated in some stellar coffee hours.
Which is a great opening line, Grace Staff, if you're reading this "Hey, we are really proud of our spread today! Be sure and try the crabcakes!"
You don't have to marry them, just direct them to the donuts, for cry-yi.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
I'm a verger there. (Which means I'm never at coffee hour; I'm busy cleaning up after the service!) Thankfully the Mystery Worshipper didn't have any comments about the pigeon-toed verger who can't walk slowly to save her life!
RE: Men & boys choirs, my home church, the Cathedral Church of St. Paul in Detroit has both a men & boys and a women & girls choir. I think that's a fabulous way to maintain the tradition but also be more inclusive. (As I always say, "You might be Episcopalian if...you believe women should be in the House of Bishops but NOT the choir!") Our choirs in Detroit are completely amateur, though - it's not a wealthy church (or city).
I do have to say I was amused that the MW found Grace to be "stiff upper lip"!
Oh, and yes, there are catwalks. You can actually see them, because the ceiling was never finished. I've been in them on multiple occasions (the elevator only goes up part-way, then you have to climb stairs - NOT for the faint of heart!) and it's pretty cool. Not having a finished ceiling does let us do the occasional interesting thing like string up an installation artwork in the vaulting of the nave, or drop "poppy petals" down during the Remembrance Day service.
Anyway, in my unbiased opinion, Grace does a pretty good job serving a lot of different communities (locally, not so locally, virtually, etc.) and keeping a balance between tradition and innovation - which seems appropriate for an American cathedral.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
I have to ask, though - why is "Blessed be the one, holy and living God" so problematic? Do we not believe God is one, holy, and living? It's not a denial of the Trinity, and it's not as if there are no trinitarian forumlae elsewhere in the service (although you won't get that from the MW report, since that's not the purpose of the report).
We use the Nicene Creed in the liturgy, after the homily.
The blessing at the dismissal is trinitarian ("Father, Son, and Holy Spirit").
When there's a Gloria, the Trinity is there too.
Not to mention hymns, anthems, homilies, and doxologies (in the Eucharistic Prayer, e.g.).
I think it's just the departure from what people are used to that might be jarring. I personally don't care one way or the other, and I don't know why we happen to use that particular opening sentence. We do take a lot from Enriching Our Worship, mostly in an effort to draw from multiple authorized sources.
I suspect people are reading too much in just because this is Grace Cathedral, San Francisco (emphasis on both church and city) we're talking about.
Oh, and because I know them personally, I can vouch for the rather boring orthodoxy of all our current clergy. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Grace Cathedral is one of the few American churches where I have worshiped. All very nice and I was complimented on my English accent heard during the hymn singing (and a service with hymns before breakfast is not something I'd find in any English church).
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Incidentally, is this "Blessed be God" bit instead of "In the name of the Father..." or instead or "The Lord be with you"? Or is it an amalgam or both?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
Out of curiosity, what is the patronal/feast day for Grace Cathedral?
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
Out of curiosity, what is the patronal/feast day for Grace Cathedral?
Michaelmas, I seem to recall churchgeek saying (but I can't link to the message). Isn't that right, churchgeek?
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
It's not the first loony experiment at that Cathedral. The old seat of +Pike it was after all
By all accounts +Pike did not screw with the liturgy very much when he was active as Bishop of California. The really wacky stuff came after he retired. Throughout +Louttit's (of S. Fl.) presentation of +Pike in 1966 there is not one mention of liturgical irregularities.
PD
[ 11. March 2012, 13:37: Message edited by: PD ]
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Grace Cathedral is one of the few American churches where I have worshiped. All very nice and I was complimented on my English accent heard during the hymn singing (and a service with hymns before breakfast is not something I'd find in any English church).
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Grace Cathedral is one of the few American churches where I have worshiped. All very nice and I was complimented on my English accent heard during the hymn singing (and a service with hymns before breakfast is not something I'd find in any English church).
On the latter point, Westminster Cathedral has a hymn with the morning Office each day at 7.30. And St. Augustine's Anglican Church Highgate with morning prayer daily.
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Good on them, ll.
What I also remember about Grace Cathedral was that the distance to our hotel seemed further vertically than it was horizontally.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Incidentally, is this "Blessed be God" bit instead of "In the name of the Father..." or instead or "The Lord be with you"? Or is it an amalgam or both?
It's the very opening line, so in place of "Blessed be God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" (to which the congregation would respond, "And blessed be God's kingdom, now and forever"). So, instead, we use (during Ordinary Time, anyway) "Blessed be the one, holy, and living God" / "Glory to God for ever and ever."
Right now in Lent, we're using, "Blessed be the God of our salvation" / "Who bears our burdens and forgives our sins."
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
Out of curiosity, what is the patronal/feast day for Grace Cathedral?
Michaelmas, I seem to recall churchgeek saying (but I can't link to the message). Isn't that right, churchgeek?
That's what I've been told. We celebrate Michaelmas on the nearest Sunday, but we don't tend to refer to it as patronal or sing typical church-founding hymns or anything. We also celebrate St. Francis' Day (on the following Sunday), since he's the patron saint of the city. But we have the annual meeting on a different day - usually in September, but not on Michaelmas. It confuses me, but I'm not a member. (I've kept my membership at the Cathedral Church of St. Paul, Detroit, the high altar of which you can see in my avatar, and which celebrates its patronal feast on the Conversion of St. Paul, exactly as you would expect.)
We need to canonize someone named Grace, then all Grace churches can take her as their patron! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I can imagine a case that a church dedicated to Grace, would have as its principal feast the Immaculate Conception.
But perhaps not here.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
IME, "Grace" was an old 19th Century/early 20th Century American dedication that in TEC would have traditionally signalled low churchmanship (although the merged parish of Grace & St Peter in Baltimore is an historic Anglo-Catholic church).
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I can imagine a case that a church dedicated to Grace, would have as its principal feast the Immaculate Conception.
But perhaps not here.
I'd have thought the feast would be Pentecost.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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