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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Names in the Confirmation Rite
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
In some Confirmation rites the name of the person being confirmed is used by the person confirming, in others it is not.
In the Church of England the 1662 prayer book does not have the bishop using the name of the confirmand. The modern Common Worship rite does.
In some confirmation services the Bishop seems to use all the Christian names of the candidates while in others I have noticed just the called name - even in a shorter form - like Bill instead of William. I guess in these cases it is whatever the candidates want. I am not aware of bishops giving instructions on this, but I may be wrong.
What about modern RC rites?
I know that in the RC church people sometimes adopt a confirmation name. Is that actually used in the ceremony, and what is the significance of it.
I can see tht if Confirmation is to be seen as a significant moment in discipleship then a new or additional name could be a good idea, in the same way, perhaps, that The Lord added a name to Simon when he called him.
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Mary, a priest??
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Hezekiah
Apprentice
# 17157
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Posted
I was confirmed (RC) only with my confirmation name. It symbolises a newly strengthened life in Christ and an intention to turn away from one's past sins, as well as invoking the prayers of the saint chosen.
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2 Kings 3:27
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Galilit
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# 16470
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Posted
Last one I went to the Bishop read from a list of the teens' names with the Confirmation Saint's name they had chosen. So it would be "Galilit, who has chosen St Joan of Arc".
New Zealand suburban parish, 2004.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I was confirmed as an adult (CoE) with my first name only.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Emendator Liturgia
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# 17245
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Posted
Same here when ++Marcus Loane confirmed me.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
Same here, when confirmed by +Simon (Phipps) Lincoln. I am rather glad the C of E does not go in for lumbering you with the name of the saint on whose day you were baptized. With all due respect, I would not want to be lumbered with Evurtius!
PD
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
What about modern RC rites?
I know that in the RC church people sometimes adopt a confirmation name. Is that actually used in the ceremony, and what is the significance of it.
The Saint's name is used in the confirming formula. It is a way of consecrating that permanent state (of being confirmed) to the intercession of a particular saint.
-- Ephrem.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
In the Church of England the 1662 prayer book does not have the bishop using the name of the confirmand. The modern Common Worship rite does.
I can 'confirm' that back in the old days when all services were 1662, the Bishop did say your name. You wrote it on a card so that he would know what it was. In those days also, you were under strict orders not to use Brylcreem, if anyone remembers what that was.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
Same here, when confirmed by +Simon (Phipps) Lincoln. I am rather glad the C of E does not go in for lumbering you with the name of the saint on whose day you were baptized. With all due respect, I would not want to be lumbered with Evurtius!
PD
I was under the impression that RCs chose their confirmation saint regardless of their feast day? All the Catholics I've known (including my dad) have chosen theirs because of the saint's attributes etc.
I was baptized as an adult on Easter Sunday so I'm not sure that I would have a saint, but if I could choose a saint that I felt close to I would have liked a confirmation name. I haven't heard of it happening in the CoE, and it was certainly never offered to me (was confirmed by the Bishop of Guildford).
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
People certainly do get to choose their names - no-one "lumbers" them with anything! Except parents, of course, who these days seem to opt for either the name of some "celebrity" or try to find something "different", even if it is just a spelling variation. "No not Cecelia, it's Cecilia!" ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
There are some pious people, thankfully, who might well consider the saint's day on which their child is born and choose that. I have heard of one girl called "Feria".
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
There are some pious people, thankfully, who might well consider the saint's day on which their child is born and choose that. I have heard of one girl called "Feria".
Or Cineria?
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
That may be your experience Enoch and good it is, but its not what many experienced and its not in the 1662 book.
I think some Anglicans do take on an extra name, but can't 'confirm' that. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Mary, a priest??
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
Had I not heard the name being used in an everyday context it would have taken me some time to work out what name her parents were thinking of when they called their daughter 'Kelaire'.
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marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
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Posted
When I was confirmed (Church in Wales, 1997, by the Archbishop of Wales), we had our names printed on a card which we held so he could read our name off it. I think he said something along the lines of 'Confirm, oh Lord, your child N...' but I can't remember very well.
Perhaps it's not in the liturgy but it probably happenned often enough. Of course the liturgy for that would have been the 1985 Church in Wales BCP not 1662.
Just checked the liturgy (link on this page) and there's no actual names in the official words.
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formerly cheesymarzipan.
Now containing 50% less cheese
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
I chose the name of a dear neighbor who had recently died and who I knew was in heaven, thus a saint. My parents had chosen a different name for me, but acquiesced to my choice more out of surprise than anything else, I think.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
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recklessrat
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# 17243
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Posted
I chose St. Kateri Tekakwitha for my Catholic confirmation. The poor Irish priest found it a bit of a mouthful...
Now I have been received into the C of E, I'm not sure what the situation is with that...
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by recklessrat:
I chose St. Kateri Tekakwitha for my Catholic confirmation. The poor Irish priest found it a bit of a mouthful...
Now I have been received into the C of E, I'm not sure what the situation is with that...
The CoE would still regard St Kateri Tekakwitha as a saint (King Charles the Martyr is our only saint of our own) and iirc you don't need to get re-confirmed as an Anglican (correct me if I'm wrong!) so I wouldn't think you have to do anything.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
St Kateri was only declared a saint about two weeks ago.
Do you mean to say that you were confirmed as a Catholic and then received into the episcopal church all within a space of two weeks ?
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
St Kateri was only declared a saint about two weeks ago.
Do you mean to say that you were confirmed as a Catholic and then received into the episcopal church all within a space of two weeks ?
Just what I was thinking
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Mary, a priest??
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
She was, however, beatified in 1980, so her name could legitimately be assumed.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
What about modern RC rites? I know that in the RC church people sometimes adopt a confirmation name. Is that actually used in the ceremony, and what is the significance of it.
I'm not sure whether being confirmed by the FSSP in a 1962 rite(*) counts as "modern RC". But anyway, I called myself Albert, as in Albertus Magnus. That seemed fitting for a professional scientist with strong Thomistic, indeed Dominican, leanings. (St Albert the Great was the greatest medieval scientist, St Thomas Aquinas' teacher, and also a member of the Dominican order.) My thinking certainly was along the lines of getting the best saintly wingman for my life.
Since I am a convert, I also was able to chose a baptismal name(**), and I took Paul for St Paul, in honor of my dad (a Paul by middle name), because my birthday is most fittingly on the feast of the conversion of St Paul (25th January) and because I really like St Paul's writings.
So there you go, you can call me Paul Albert instead of IngoB if you like.
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(*) Yep, I got slapped. Loved that. In an entirely non-masochistic way, of course.
(**) I had baptism, confirmation and first communion on one day, and sanitation of marriage on the next. Grace overload...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
um, you mean sanation, presumably, not sanitation.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
She was, however, beatified in 1980, so her name could legitimately be assumed.
How well is St. Kateri Tekakwitha ("The Lily of the Mohawks") known in the U.K.? In the U.S. she is fairly well known now but in the past she hadn't been that familiar to a lot of people.
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
There are some pious people, thankfully, who might well consider the saint's day on which their child is born and choose that. I have heard of one girl called "Feria".
I knew someone named "Domingo", which is Spanish for both "Dominic" and "Sunday". I'm pretty sure though, he was named for being born on St. Dominic's Day and not for the Lord's Day.
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
I'm not sure whether being confirmed by the FSSP in a 1962 rite(*) counts as "modern RC".
1) Fifty years in the life of the Church and in history is not modern? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
2) The EF is indeed a modern rite, according to Pope Benedict XVI in Summorum Pontificum and subsequent documents, which call for it to be celebrated alongside the current rite, and for seminaries to train priests in it.
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
I think the word you were looking for was "permit" it to be celebrated. Nowhere in the official documents is there a "call" for it to be celebrated, much less a "call" for seminaries to instruct anyone in its use.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
I think the word you were looking for was "permit" it to be celebrated. Nowhere in the official documents is there a "call" for it to be celebrated, much less a "call" for seminaries to instruct anyone in its use.
Is the instruction Universae Ecclesia unknown in the mother diocese of England and Wales?
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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recklessrat
Shipmate
# 17243
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
She was, however, beatified in 1980, so her name could legitimately be assumed.
Exactly, Triple Tiara. I was confirmed and assumed her name in 2002 and was received into the C of E this year. Might have been a bit much to get both done in a fortnight lol!
I'm not sure how well she is known in the UK. I was given a book to read pre-confirmation full of saints and beatified persons and their biographies. I picked her as I could relate to some aspects of her life as a young woman (but not her appetite for mortification of the flesh, which I found out about later)!!!
I don't use her name related to anything official in everyday lif but although I am no longer Catholic, I still feel I have a 'link' with her which I would be hesitant to remove from my life. And as Jade said, if she is still regarded as a saint in the C of E anyway...
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stay simple, remain whole
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
Is the instruction Universae Ecclesia unknown in the mother diocese of England and Wales?
Not unknown, but not paid much attention ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I stand by what I said: there is no "call" for either the EF to be celebrated or for seminaries to give instruction. That interpretation is given by its enthusiasts whereas the Roman documents are permissive rather than prescriptive in the matter. "Where pastoral needs suggest it", is the phrase. It does not say all seminaries should train future priests to celebrate the EF.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
I stand by what I said: there is no "call" for either the EF to be celebrated or for seminaries to give instruction. That interpretation is given by its enthusiasts whereas the Roman documents are permissive rather than prescriptive in the matter. "Where pastoral needs suggest it", is the phrase. It does not say all seminaries should train future priests to celebrate the EF.
I never said "all seminaries," either. But one cannot overlook article 21 of Universae Ecclesiae, which states:
"21. Ordinaries are asked to offer their clergy the possibility of acquiring adequate preparation for celebrations in the Extraordinary Form. This applies also to Seminaries, where future priests should be given proper formation, including study of Latin and, where pastoral needs suggest it, the opportunity to learn the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite."
If there is a coetus fidelium, i.e., group of the faithful who request the Mass (and nearly every diocese has this), then, according to both Universae Ecclesiae and Summorum Pontificum, then pastoral needs have suggested it and opportunities must be provided.
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
Is the instruction Universae Ecclesia unknown in the mother diocese of England and Wales?
Not unknown, but not paid much attention
Ain't that the truth.
quote:
I stand by what I said: there is no "call" for either the EF to be celebrated or for seminaries to give instruction. That interpretation is given by its enthusiasts whereas the Roman documents are permissive rather than prescriptive in the matter. "Where pastoral needs suggest it", is the phrase. It does not say all seminaries should train future priests to celebrate the EF.
Ah, the rigorist approach to the reading of a translation being used to respond with as little generosity to the provisions of liturgical law when we don't like it. A cursory glance at the Latin (definitive) text would suggest that your reading is hardly sustainable. "Where pastoral needs suggest it" is a gamma minus translation of "adiunctis ad postulantibus". "as additional circumstances demand it" might be nearer to how one who is genuinely "idoneus" might construe it. Still, there's too much tied up in all this for much light to be shed in this discussion. You've made your position clear on these matters before. They are a crying shame and suggest an entirely uncharacteristic mean-spiritedness, probably brought on as a reaction to the sheer nastiness of too many Trads.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
And that tangent about the EF and its use seems to have taken us quite a way from the OP topic of Names in the Confirmation Rite. If you would like a thread on use of the EF, or the interpretation of the official documents about it or anything like that then do start a new thread.
seasick, Eccles host
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
I knew someone named "Domingo", which is Spanish for both "Dominic" and "Sunday". I'm pretty sure though, he was named for being born on St. Dominic's Day and not for the Lord's Day.
"Domingo" is a fairly common name in Spanish speaking countries, and "Ingo" is a common nickname derived from it - which is why I had some people think that my name is actually "Domingo"... (It's not, it's from a German root.) I guess I was supposed to be a Benedictine, Carthusian or Augustinian, so that I could be "Dom Ingo". ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
"Domingo" is a fairly common name in Spanish speaking countries...
I know. My family is from a Spanish speaking country and I've lived there too.
quote:
...and "Ingo" is a common nickname derived from it - which is why I had some people think that my name is actually "Domingo"... (It's not, it's from a German root.) I guess I was supposed to be a Benedictine, Carthusian or Augustinian, so that I could be "Dom Ingo".
To be honest, at one time I totally thought your name was Elvish, as if you named yourself after an obscure Sindarin prince from the Silmarillion, and I struggled to remember where I'd read the name before. I'd be thinking, "Was he a member of Thingol's household, or did he follow Ingwë and Finwë...?" ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
By the way, in Mexico a common nickname for Domingo is Mingo.
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Back to the confirmation rite, my best man dudey bloke was confirmed in a year in which the Vatican (or maybe it was just ecclesiae novae seelandiae) scrapped the practice ... it was soon reintroduced. He was bitterly disappointed.
I know one cannot be confirmed twice, but I'm not so sure that one cannot assign a confirmation name in retrospect? Precisely because the naming is not essential to this sacrament, there could be some room for flexibility?
What happens if the priest makes a mistake in assigning the confirmation name (or even, I guess, the baptismal name)? Let's say someone wanted "Michael" but got "Peter", during the ceremony and in the register. Is he stuck with Michael, or can this be corrected after the fact? Casuists to the rescue!
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
A relative of mine was always reputed to have ended up with the wrong Christian name because a delivery boy on his bicycle had confused the name with another one that was in the press at the time, while taking the message down to the vicar the previous day.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I've just dislodged from the recesses of my mind a snippet from an ancient BBC radio comedy sketch (pre-Radio4): I think it was Take It From Here... a spoof of Longfellow's Hiawatha which said of his girlfriend Minnehaha : 'Should have really just been Minnie/ But the parson got the giggles.'
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
If an additional name is adopted at Confirmation is that name registered in the confirmations register, and does the register have to make clear which is new? I would have thought it would help if it did.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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