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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Christingle, excited children and naked flames.
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
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Posted
One alternative to the cocktail sticks for those seeking to minimise risk:
When I've made Christingles I've tended to use wooden toothpicks that are only pointed at one end. I'm a bit squeamish even thinking about eyes and possible injury.
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I've started blogging. I don't promise you'll find anything to interest you at uncleconrad
Posts: 946 | From: Mount Fairy, NSW | Registered: Jun 2007
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
When I was deputy headteacher we used to have a Christingle service every year - it became a tradition, all 300 children made one. We covered the stage in tin foil and placed all the christingles on there. TAs lit them and the children sat at a safe distance. We had teachers with buckets of sand etc under their chairs just in case. Our Chair of governors was a firefighter and was perfectly happy with the set up.
They were lovely services, enhanced by images on the big screen.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Rob:
In the USA no one knows what Christingle is because the custom of such services was never widely introduced here.
Indeed, when I saw my first photo of a Christingle, my impression was that it's absolutely bizarre and utterly unlike any Christmas tradition I'd ever heard of. This is partly because I wouldn't associate oranges with Christmas. But my horizons have fortunately been widened since that first shock encounter.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Doesn't help that most descriptions of Christingle services seem to amount to "Children are given this weird orange-based thing, then there is or is not a fire-related incident, and then Silent Night is sung." That's it?
[ 03. November 2012, 16:44: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I am pretty sure American Moravians know about Cristingle service, as it comes from that tradition.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Rob:
In the USA no one knows what Christingle is because the custom of such services was never widely introduced here.
Indeed, when I saw my first photo of a Christingle, my impression was that it's absolutely bizarre and utterly unlike any Christmas tradition I'd ever heard of. This is partly because I wouldn't associate oranges with Christmas. But my horizons have fortunately been widened since that first shock encounter.
Doesn't help that most descriptions of Christingle services seem to amount to "Children are given this weird orange-based thing, then there is or is not a fire-related incident, and then Silent Night is sung." That's it?
And then the congregation goes home, leaving the church building smelling of caramelised orange.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
I am pretty sure American Moravians know about Cristingle service, as it comes from that tradition.
Jengie
When I was a wee Lutheran (I'm talking 1980s here), I was duly given an orange at every one of my Christmas Programs. This was the big evening spectacle wherein all good Lutheran sang songs, recited special things they had to memorize, and performed skits. At the end, we passed out presents that parents and families had put under the church's tree earlier when we were practicing. Every child got an orange. I think it goes back to the olden days when oranges were a luxury in the Midwest during winter. It didn't make much sense to me, but then I read an explanation somewhere. (I think it was in a Laura Ingalls Wilder book, Olaf is manly enough to admit.) We didn't do anything with candles, though.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
I am pretty sure American Moravians know about Cristingle service, as it comes from that tradition.
Jengie
I'm not so sure. I have lived all my life in one of the areas of the US where Moravians have historically been concentrated and where there is a noticeable Moravian influence (Moravian stars are a ubiquitous Christmas decoration in these parts) and have never seen or heard mention of Christingles here. (And a search of the word "Christingle" at the website of the Moravian Church in North America turns up 0 results.)
Say "Moravian" and "candle" around here and this is what people will assume is meant. Interestingly, both this link and the one you provided relate back to the same story. But the link you gave suggests that the oranges and candy are a British Moravian development. I think the word "Christingle" may be chiefly British as well.
There certainly is a common source and a common use of the candle with red ribbon/crepe paper, but I'm thinking Christingles as you on the other side of the pond know them are unfamiliar here.
[ 03. November 2012, 20:24: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
The link you give is to the same thing and is recognisable as a Cristingle. The orange may be British as the elaborate symbolism but the origin is Moravian.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
The link you give is to the same thing and is recognisable as a Cristingle. The orange may be British as the elaborate symbolism but the origin is Moravian.
Right, there is definitely a common source. But I think that if you mentioned "Christingles" to American Moravians, most wouldn't know what you're talking about. And if you then described them, complete with oranges and sweets, they'd see the similarity/common source, but still see the "Christingle" as somewhat unfamiliar. That was my point.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
We have a small building and a popular Christingle service. We do self assembly arrangements, with actual candles which can be lit at home at adults' guidance/own risk etc but for the lights out bit we use glowsticks.
As they are not trying to pretend to be the same size etc as the candles we can use the packets of skinny ones from the pound shop.
This year the service will be at the end of the weekend of the tree festival, so giving less space than previous years!
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Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Laxton's Superba
Shipmate
# 228
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Posted
We use glo-sticks too, they can be obtained for only pennies each on ebay, market stalls, etc etc. We use cocktail sticks still, but put a biggish sweet on the end so that there is no sharp point. We have so many children and adults that we have to run 2 separate Christingle services, both of which are packed full.
Churches are full of fire hazards. Life is full of potential dangers. But the magic of candlight combined with sweets actually sanctioned and encouraged by grown-ups, is a big draw. We always have extra sidespeople and are diligent in keeping the aisles clear. We have buckets of sand in multiple locations. We give a clear indication of our awareness of risk at the beginning of the service and we encourage parents to help their children.
Posts: 187 | From: I wish I knew | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
I think it goes back to the olden days when oranges were a luxury in the Midwest during winter.
Not that olden! Oranges were expensive and associated with Christmas in my own childhood here in England. Particularly tangerines for some reason.
The Moravian origin does seem odd to me. Did they really have oranges in 18th-century Bohemia?
But then I always assumed Christingle was American because, well it just seems so American. I was surprised to find it wasn't. I never really liked the idea myself. Too blibsy. But some people obviously do.
As for candles, just use candles. Its all part of the fun. And sort of real. No point in messing around with plastic glow-sticks. There's too much fakery around in the world anyway. Why add to it?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
blibsy blibsy blibsy <google is my friend ..... >
Googles ... blibsy blibsy blibsy ...
Nope.
No translation there.
What is 'blibsy' ken?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Cryptic
Shipmate
# 16917
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Posted
We have our Christingle at 6pm on Christmas Eve. The church is usually full to packed, we make about 300 Christingles to be distributed. Being a city church all kids come with an adult, although for many families the kid:parent ratio is pretty high.
At the time for the Christingle procession, the children come forward and are given a lighted Christingle, they process around the church then back to their seats. We have the clergy and servers leading the procession, and they keep things moving. Before the procession, we announce what is going to happen and suggest that older children can process on their own, but younger ones should be accompanied. All of our clergy/servers/vergers etc are briefed on being vigilant about kids and naked flames, and about the location os buckets of sand and water around and fire extinguishers. In the seven years that I've been doing it, there has never been anything even slightly worrying happen.
Just after I took over the organising of the service, the lady that used to run it wrote to our parish council about the dangers of naked flames and children and suggested that we use battery operated candles instead. The idea was condemned by all, on the grounds that too much of children's lives is being sanitised into oblivion. Real candles are worth the effort.
BTW - we used lollipops in place of lolly toothpicks as we don't fancy making up 1200 toothpicks!
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Illegitimi non carborundum
Posts: 225 | From: Sydney | Registered: Feb 2012
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Chapelhead
I am
# 21
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Posted
The original Moravian tradition (started 1747 in Marienborn, Germany) was for a candle with a red ribbon around it. The use of an orange began in Britain towards the end of the nineteenth century, which would explain why American Moravians might be unaware of it.
<sarky tangent>Perhaps the 'orange as a world, with bits stuck into it' appealed to late-nineteenth century Britons because it reminded them of those nice globes painted with lots of pink bits.</sarky tangent>
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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?
Posts: 9123 | From: Near where I was before. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I seem to remember reading a church court decision many years ago, refusing a faculty for an electric candle, on the grounds that God should not be worshipped with a fake. He may be worshipped with a flickering candle or with an electric bulb that is honestly a bulb, but not with an electric bulb pretending to be a candle.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I seem to remember reading a church court decision many years ago, refusing a faculty for an electric candle, on the grounds that God should not be worshipped with a fake. He may be worshipped with a flickering candle or with an electric bulb that is honestly a bulb, but not with an electric bulb pretending to be a candle.
Well, many of us feel like fakes when we are not in the mood for worship but turn up anyway, 'pretending' to be prayerful.
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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Corvo
Shipmate
# 15220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
I think it goes back to the olden days when oranges were a luxury in the Midwest during winter.
Not that olden! Oranges were expensive and associated with Christmas in my own childhood here in England. Particularly tangerines for some reason.
The Moravian origin does seem odd to me. Did they really have oranges in 18th-century Bohemia?
Same here. Tangerines (and dates) were associated with Christmas - but not oranges. I have a vague memory they came from South Africa - so it may have been something to do with post-war colonial southern hemisphere summers.
I wonder if the Christingle orange has its Moravian origins in the pomander - the bag or ball of aromatics carried to conceal nasty smells.
Posts: 672 | From: The Most Holy Trinity, Coach Lane, North Shields | Registered: Oct 2009
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Thank you everybody. We lit the Christingles, sang one verse of one hymn, then all the children shouted out "Happy Birthday, Jesus!" and blew their candles out. Result - the candles were lit for a minimum time, and blowing them out was part of the fun.
No children were burned, maimed, blinded by cocktail sticks, trampled underfoot etc, etc. It was all good.
(Should I be worried that I found skewering 96 cute little jelly teddy bears on sharp cocktail sticks deeply satisfying?)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Ours was led under difficult circumstances - the person who would have led it was struck down by a nasty norovirus, and the soloist was ill too.
Despite this we had a great service, with an excellent two part message explaining that the meaning of Christmas was presents/presence.
Christingles were made during the service, although plans for them to be lit while the building was dark were scuppered by the pianist discovering he couldn't see the music for the hastily-arranged replacement soloist... (who did a wonderful 'O holy night' - probably the first time her newborn daughter had heard mummy's amazing voice).
It was all rather wonderful in a strange, unplanned sort of way. Bit like the first Christmas really.
[ 24. December 2012, 20:36: Message edited by: Gill H ]
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Our Christingle Service was also slightly (!) chaotic and informal, and so was our Crib Service & Nativity Play yesterday.......
....and yet, there was still a sense of awe and wonder at the mystery of the Incarnation - and both these services were very well-attended. My Anglican sense of a need for constant order and formality is beginning to wear thin......
By contrast, our formal and traditional Carols & Lessons and Midnight Mass both had rather sparse congregations this year (for various reasons, including heavy rain last night which doubtless discouraged potential visitors). Still, maybe the Holy Spirit is trying to tell us summink....
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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jugular
Voice of Treason
# 4174
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Posted
This year we had our first ever Christingle service on Christmas Eve. There were about 25 children present, with a total of about 60 people altogether.
We began in the hall, with the children sitting on the floor in a circle. I demonstrated how to make a Christingle, then the children went with an adult to tables which had been set up with the necessary materials. They made their Christingles and brought them back to the circle, where we revised what each part of the Christingle meant.
We then walked with (unlit) Christingles into the church building, singing Silent Night. We then had fairly brief and simple nativity play. Once the nativity 'scene' was complete, the children were invited to come forward to be the stars around the manger. The children stood in a large circle in the chancel, and their candles were lit from the Christ Candle in the Advent Wreath. The lighting was covered by the singing of a carol by the adults.
We then had a set of brief prayers with a simple response, while the children generally stared at their light and enjoyed being near fire (every child's dream). We then 'changed' the light. This is an idea from Godly Play - changing the light means extinguishing the candle, but it is explained as changing the light, so that instead of being in one place, it spreads and fills the whole room, and the whole world. Children watch the smoke from the candle rise up, and are invited to imagine the light around them all the time.
A final carol, a blessing and everyone was home in under an hour. The fire risk was managed by the children being in a circle, with an adult nearby for the smaller ones, and the candles only burning for about two minutes. We have fire extinguishers and whatnot on standby at all times, so that wasn't an issue.
Posts: 2599 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2003
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
We have a risk assessment specific to Christingle and a standard fire plan which we even did a drill for in the summer. A couple of adeodatus's points could improve it though. BUt Christingle (with about 200 lit christingles went off fine.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Clemency
Shipmate
# 16173
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Posted
Cannot resist putting this in, I wrote a few years ago.... (to be sung by innocent childlike voices)
See the advent candles, standing in a ring
What a pretty sight; they show us Christmas is coming
Lucky Lucy gets to strike a match upon the box,
All at once its head cones off and sets fire to her socks
See the flames lead upwards! Lucy goes berserk
We bring a fire extinguished, oh dear! it does not work
Everyone is shouting, rushing to and fro
Pretty soon the church becomes a total inferno
See the bishop blazing! listen to the choir
They can sing much louder now, that they are on fire
The fire brigade are coming now, down the street they dash
What a pity nothing's left except for lots of ash
But what a jolly time we had, watching smoke and flame
It was so much fun that we must come to church again.
Apologies....
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Who knows where the Time goes?
Posts: 90 | From: Northumberland, UK | Registered: Jan 2011
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
The candle display on the centre table this morning suddenly decided to flame a little more brightly at one end than the other. Only four of us noticed. The Smudgelet was ready to leap into action, but one of the stewards calmly walked rather swiftly forward. He must have quite impressive lung capacity as he managed to blow the fire out! A little readjustment of the greenery around the candles and the rest were left to burn without further incident. I'll swear half the congregation didn't even notice!
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Other thing we do is have first aiders from St John Ambulance present at our big Christmas services. Not directly related to candles, but sensible for large crowds.
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Last night's risk-assessment included a worst case scenario of a 5 year old girl with long hair, wearing an inflamable nylony jacket going up in flames; panicking parents attempting to scoop up and run with flailing toddlers, someone tripping and being trampled underfoot, with more people then tripping over them, eyes being poked out with cocktail sticks in the ensuing melee, and bodies piling up in the vestibule.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I kid you not. ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
And that was still better than the mince-pie / e-coli risk assessment, where the worst-case scenario involved carts rumbling through our village, and cries of "Bring Out Your Dead."
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Given the multitudes of candles that were lit in churches in the UK (and most of Christendom) before the Reformation, and the passing of the various Health and Safety at Work Acts, is there any documentary evidence of how many people were consumed by fire in churches.......?
......I thought not..... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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