|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Dismissal Gospel
|
Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
|
Posted
I have been at worship for All Saints recently using the Church of England Common Worship Eucharist, and at the end the 'final gospel' was proclaimed.
It was proclaimed by a lay person, but the same person had also proclaimed the Gospel in the Eucharist. He was wearing an alb.
I've come across it used on other feast days but not, yet, on a 'green' Sunday. I am not entirely sure what the CW suggestion is for the use of this Gospel.
It's position and use is very different from the last gospel of the old rite of Mass - after all that was principally a memorial of the incarnation of the divine word, and was said, in effect after the Mass. In the CW Eucharist it formed very much part of the rite itself.
In CW it seems to relate specifically to the feast being celebrated.
I wasn't sure about it. I could see it gave a message. However it elongated the dismissal section, it unbalanced it with a ceremonial reading of the Gospel, and for me left me a bit puzzled - why was that there, I wondered.
I haven't come across this Gospel in this way before, but perhaps some here will know of historical or other precedent.
Any thoughts on this final Gospel? What's the point of it?
[ 12. November 2012, 20:49: Message edited by: Percy B ]
--------------------
Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
|
Posted
ISTM to be A Fond Thing Vainly Invented, making the service even wordier than usual......YMMV.
Ian J.
--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
Yes, I've run into it a couple of times - again, on particular special occasions when it seems to be felt that the service isn't long enough and adding extra hymns just isn't enough...
As you might have spotted, I'm a bit agnostic on this one!
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
|
Posted
I've never heard of this before. Why would you want to remove the focus from the readings that were part of the Eucharist, and leave worshipers with a "parting shot" from Scripture? Normally, the Scriptures proclaimed in the service are allowed to sink/soak in through contemplation through and alongside other elements of the service - the other readings, the hymns, the homily, Communion, etc.
--------------------
I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Quam Dilecta
Shipmate
# 12541
|
Posted
In the older Roman and Anglican missals, every mass concluded with the "Last Gospel" (John I 1-14). When the rites were revised in the 1960's and thereafter, this medieval addition disappeared. I have encountered it, however, in what are otherwise "new" masses on Christmas Eve. Does Common Worship provide Final Gospel readings for various occasions?
--------------------
Blessd are they that dwell in thy house
Posts: 406 | From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
I have been at worship for All Saints recently using the Church of England Common Worship Eucharist, and at the end the 'final gospel' was proclaimed.... In CW it seems to relate specifically to the feast being celebrated.
I'm confused. I would like to understand this better and so would appreciate it if someone could elaborate on this -- how the text is selected for this final gospel. I don't know my way around Common Worship so I'm not even sure where to look to find the answer.
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Normally, the Scriptures proclaimed in the service are allowed to sink/soak in through contemplation through and alongside other elements of the service - the other readings, the hymns, the homily, Communion, etc.
At present I'm really inclined to agree with churchgeek. To hear another gospel passage at the end of the service would be "liturgical whiplash" to me.
(I say this in spite of hearing the Last Gospel proclaimed in the church of my yoof. But there's something about John 1 that stands on its own. It's a complete statement and, when I was kid, seemed very similar to the Creed. But that's another topic.)
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
I have been at worship for All Saints recently using the Church of England Common Worship Eucharist, and at the end the 'final gospel' was proclaimed.... In CW it seems to relate specifically to the feast being celebrated.
I'm confused. I would like to understand this better and so would appreciate it if someone could elaborate on this -- how the text is selected for this final gospel. I don't know my way around Common Worship so I'm not even sure where to look to find the answer.
Look in Common Worship: Times and Seasons (PDF files here). All the seasons have a "proper" dismissal gospel.
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Normally, the Scriptures proclaimed in the service are allowed to sink/soak in through contemplation through and alongside other elements of the service - the other readings, the hymns, the homily, Communion, etc.
At present I'm really inclined to agree with churchgeek. To hear another gospel passage at the end of the service would be "liturgical whiplash" to me.
(I say this in spite of hearing the Last Gospel proclaimed in the church of my yoof. But there's something about John 1 that stands on its own. It's a complete statement and, when I was kid, seemed very similar to the Creed. But that's another topic.) [/QB][/QUOTE]
The presence of the dismissal gospel in T&S surely justifies the concept of a Last Gospel in general… I see no reason why this couldn't be taken as permission for an old-fashioned John 1 reading under Canon B5.
I think the general intention of the Common Worship compilers is to have a message that the congregation can take with them as they leave, clearly associating the dismissal action with Scripture: that tends to be the thrust of the passages. It's an interesting idea that I have some sympathy with. The post-communion-dismissal part of the service often seems to me to be too short, unbalancing the service. Sort of "we've had communion, now let's get out".
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Adrian1
Shipmate
# 3994
|
Posted
I've not encountered this sort of thing in a Common Worship context yet. However the traditional Last Gospel of the Tridentine rite is lovely and appropriate as a conclusion to the eucharist.
Another approach would be to follow the Use of York (which never had a last Gospel) and say or sing Psalm 150 instead. If that's done I prefer the Surtees Talbot Chant (as used at York Minster) to the Stanford one.
--------------------
The Parson's Handbook contains much excellent advice, which, if it were more generally followed, would bring some order and reasonableness into the amazing vagaries of Anglican Ritualism. Adrian Fortescue
Posts: 1986 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
Somebody on the liturgical Commission who thought they were clever probably came up with the idea, linking it to the old last gospel.
It's a downer, e.g. the triumphalism of Ascension Day is wrecked by the dismissal gospel anticipating Pentecost.
The beauty of the Maunday Thursday watch is ruined by the so-called 'Gospel of the Watch'.
I managed to wean my last incumbent (a member of the Liturgical Commission) off this idea by 'forgetting' to put the book near the altar of repose.
[ 13. November 2012, 13:17: Message edited by: leo ]
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
|
Posted
Well it seems we are not very keen on it. I agree with djo's comments 100%.
Years ago I do remember talk of a post communion reflection - but was this in RC places, I really don't remember. The idea was to have a short piece of prose or a prayer to ponder at the end of Communion before the post C prayer (I think). Anyone else come across this.
Whatever it seems more appropriate than the Last Gospel idea which as Leo suggests run the risk of flattening the high by introducing new themes.
More significantly as do says it just makes things longer with yet more words.
Having said all which, is there something to be said for it, anyone!
And apart from the old John 1 last gospel - which was after Mass wasn't it? Is there historical president for this CW innovation.
--------------------
Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
|
Posted
Time and Seasons also suggests reading the Acts reading on Ascension Day as part of the intro, before the collect.
I'm all in favour of special ceremonies for special days, if appropriate, but this strikes me as just fussy and affected.
--------------------
Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
