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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Advent
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Advent approaches - what does your place do to mark the change of liturgical mood as we enter this season?
We eschew flowers and the Gloria in excelsis, whilst wheeling out the Advent Wreath and the purple/Sarum blue/rose vestments. We are exchanging our default Mass music for a more reflective setting (Malcolm Archer's Missa Simplex), and we are having a short penitential service next Sunday based on the trad O Antiphons (which, as enny fule kno, are an essential part of the Anglican Advent!).
All of which points to a distinct change of liturgical mood - though we will be having our usual Christingle, Carol, and Crib Services nearer Christmas itself (using the correct colour of the day, of course).
We also provide our congo with nice little devotional booklets for daily use in Advent, courtesy of the wonderfully-named Additional Curates Society!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
We have blue paraments and vestments for four weeks; rose is not even an appointed liturgical color in my denom. See here, although from another Lutheran denom in the US.
That said, we still keep to three violet and one pink candle on the Advent Wreath. Yes, there is a fifth white candle in the middle, lit on Christmas Eve. For the four Sundays of Advent, there will be a simple prayer at the lighting of the Advent wreath, immediately before the opening hymn, led by a "family" from the congregation.
Advent is one of those rare time of the church year when we Lutherans tend to utilize hymns of our own ethnic heritages a bit more often than usual. It's not unusual to check the credits for a hymn in the Advent section of a Lutheran hymnal and find them to be German or Scandinavian. Although our new (ca. 2006) hymnal has a broad and inclusive selection, my own church tends to go with the old chestnuts.
The children's program takes over part of the Sunday liturgy somewhere in December, in order to have a captive audience, one assumes. There will be an evening program of adult and children's performances, too.
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
We are also using blue paraments, as we have a lovely set that someone generously gave us. Most United Methodist shacks have the plain reversible sets in the four colors (red/white and green/purple); the altar hanging is actually just a table runner and in my estimation leaves much to be desired. This blue set, however, is a full frontal.
We will be using three purples and a pink in our Advent wreath as well. The UM Book of Worship calls for four purples, but we don't have the fourth one, and it's not a big enough deal to me to justify the (nominal) expense.
I warned everyone that we will not be singing Christmas carols until Christmas, but that we will be singing Advent music instead. This was met with a bit of unease, but they're willing to try it out with me. I then was told that Joy to the World is actually a better Advent song than Christmas song; a quick read confirms this. So I'll be sure to work it in somewhere. Plus, songs such as "O Come, O Come, Emmanuel" and "Come, Thou Long Expected Jesus" are usually associated with Christmas around here, and we're singing those the first and second weeks of Advent. So I think people will be just fine with the music.
We're going to celebrate the Eucharist weekly during Advent. We've been doing it monthly. We'll go back to monthly for the season after Epiphany.
I'm going to chant or sing something from the door right before the greeting each week: the Magnificat on the fourth Sunday, the Song of Zechariah on the third Sunday, and the first verse of "O, Come" in Latin on the second Sunday. I'm not sure yet about the first week.
Advent is my favorite time of year, with the possible exception of Lent. I'm really excited!
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
The Gloria goes away, of course, and there are the violet vestments. There is an Advent candle wreath which gets placed in the sanctuary, which I'd prefer not to have, but it's not worth the battle. At least I put the kibosh on any special ceremony attached to it.
We also sing the Litany 15 minutes before the start of the service, as we do in Lent as well.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
The Advent wreath got the bullet here a few years ago after someone other than me had to get the wax out of the carpet. I was not at all sorry to see it go as there really was not anywhere in our sanctuary where it was not in the way, and there was also nowhere to put it at the front of the nave.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
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Quam Dilecta
Shipmate
# 12541
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Posted
Our parish will use violet vestments and eschew flowers until Christmas, although we manage manage some extra candles for Lessons and Carols on 14 December. On two of the four Sundays, the Litany will be sung in procession before the Solemn Mass.
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Blessd are they that dwell in thy house
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I have to put the Purple paraments out this week, we don't have a blue set and don't want one.
I also have to retrieve the Advent Wreath from the closet and make sure we have a reading to do in the service. My one major disappointment with Celebrate God's Presence, the United Church of Canada's service book is that it does NOT include a set of readings for lighting advent candles. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
How our foremost liturgists could omit the most liturgical thing many United Church congregations do all year is utterly beyond me.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Advent I-IV - Altar dressed in purple, priests and deacons in purple. I don't think the parish has rose vestments, although the newish priests might. I wasn't around last year to check.
Of course no Gloria! Given the setting our parish uses, I am grateful for a four week respite.
Advent wreath - candles lit with a small prayer each Sunday liturgy. Rose candle where appropriate. Candles lit without ceremony during the week.
Mass of reconciliation in second week this year. Priests come from all over the area to expedite individual confessions. Ours also help other parishes.
There is often a service of Advent carols. Unsure about this year. Of course, that dreary, dreary, dreary O Come (O please go away) is trotted out ad naseum. I pray for the more spritely O Come Divine Messiah, and may get one airing. If I'm lucky.
Advent services continue up until Monday the 24th in the morning. After that service, hordes descend on the church to array it for the Christmas masses. Candles in the wreath are swapped out for white ones, a tree with lights erected, the creche is dusted off and installed, the altar vested in white (as will the priests and deacons be, possibly with gold trim)
I may have missed some things, but that is basically it.
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Even more so than I was before
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
Advent wreath and absence of Gloria ... and the confession later in the liturgy to generate a more penitential liturgy, post- rather than pre- breaking open the word.
Here we are moving into the sheer hell of late build-up season, with the ever present threat of cyclones and massive storms, and oppressive heat and humidity (I love it). The weather itself is powerfully preparatory, powerfully "the cry goes up, how long"
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Of course, that dreary, dreary, dreary O Come (O please go away) is trotted out ad naseum.
It can be. Heavy and slow: 'Re-jooiiice... re....joooiiiiice...' sung as if you're off to the gallows. It doesn't have to be. Sung lightly, at a brisk pace, it can be very prayerful.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Of course, that dreary, dreary, dreary O Come (O please go away) is trotted out ad naseum.
It can be. Heavy and slow: 'Re-jooiiice... re....joooiiiiice...' sung as if you're off to the gallows. It doesn't have to be. Sung lightly, at a brisk pace, it can be very prayerful.
And without a five minute pause between the first and second lines...
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Advent approaches -
... and we are having a short penitential service next Sunday based on the trad O Antiphons (which, as enny fule kno, are an essential part of the Anglican Advent!).
Ian J.
Actually the O antiphons are an essential part of of the office of vespers in the Roman and Benedictine breviaries as a antiphon to the Magnificat. So it's far more accurate to say that the antiphons are borrowed for Anglican use and to indicate that fact.
In general, Anglican prayer books do not provide antiphons for the Magnificat at Evening Prayer or Evensong. Of course antiphons can be added, but they are not rubrically required. Further, the ending of the Gregorian plainsong melody of an O antiphon is intended to determine the particular plainsong psalm tone for singing the Roman or Benedictine breviary Magnificat on a particilar day. So to sing an O antiphon and continue with a Magnificat, say, by Howells or by Stainer, just doesn't work well. That's why the O antiphons, as much as I personally love them, are not liturgically essential for Anglican Advent Evensong. However in a concerted performance or in some Anglican worship setting used as anthems, I'm sure the O antiphons are just as wonderful to hear year by year.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Rob:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Advent approaches -
... and we are having a short penitential service next Sunday based on the trad O Antiphons (which, as enny fule kno, are an essential part of the Anglican Advent!).
Ian J.
Actually the O antiphons are an essential part of of the office of vespers in the Roman and Benedictine breviaries as a antiphon to the Magnificat. So it's far more accurate to say that the antiphons are borrowed for Anglican use and to indicate that fact.*
Not quite. O sapientia is in the 1662 BCP Calendar and Common Worship Advent material (in times & Seasons) provides the antiphons and whole offices based around them.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
And Common Worship: Daily Prayer provides them, following the Roman dating, not the one-day-out Sarum arrangement in the back of the old English Hymnal.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Thank you, gentlemen, for supporting me so stoutly!
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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angelfish
Shipmate
# 8884
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Posted
Well, I noticed people getting the lifesize plywood nativity scene, Sunday school nativity costumes and Advent wreath down from the roof space last week, so I guess we will have the stable set up at the front of the room (minus baby Jesus, and minus the pig since I pointed out a couple of years ago there was unlikely to have been a pig in a good Jewish home). There will also be the Advent wreath with random coloured candles -usually white or red, and a reminder each week of what they each signify before one of the children comes up to the front to light them. Also, the Sunday school teachers running about all harassed because the same children never show up two weeks in a row so they can never rehearse the nativity play properly. All the traditional stuff, you know.
I spend the whole season in a state of suspense, convinced that some poor child is going to set light to the wreath, pastor,themselves, stable scene and all.
[ 27. November 2012, 18:36: Message edited by: angelfish ]
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"As God is my witness, I WILL kick Bishop Brennan up the arse!"
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Not quite. O sapientia is in the 1662 BCP Calendar and Common Worship Advent material (in times & Seasons) provides the antiphons and whole offices based around them.
Yes, quite right. Thanks for that help. The 1662 book does note O sapientia, on its calendar
And thanks for that information about Common Worship and the O antiphons for this American across the pond. Common Worship is on my shelf here and I should open that book more often, especially before making statements about Anglican things liturgical.
*
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Of course, that dreary, dreary, dreary O Come (O please go away) is trotted out ad naseum.
It can be. Heavy and slow: 'Re-jooiiice... re....joooiiiiice...' sung as if you're off to the gallows. It doesn't have to be. Sung lightly, at a brisk pace, it can be very prayerful.
It is usually sung at a fair clip around here and therefore does not seem near half so dreary. It usually gets aired on the first and third SUndays and "Sleepers Wake!" on the second and fourth. 'Sleepers Wake' tends to move quite slow and at maximum volume as those of us who can still but up a good show on the singing front all know it!
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Dreary? Dreary? Its thrilling! Exciting! And it works both fast and slow.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.
The Rorate caeli (Advent Prose) can be sung from the beginning - and makes a good, if lengthy - alternative to the penitential rite.
Of course, on the first Sunday of Advent one should have The Litany as well...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Looking forward to the Advent procession on Sunday night which should be good.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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so wound up
Apprentice
# 17450
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Posted
purple copes, and chasies (even maniples, rarely used.) purple and gold dalmatics for the servers. i actually don't remember what we do for gaudete sunday. traditional wreath, no wax problems with wooden floors. only major change to liturgics outside the ordinary is sung hail mary by a wonderful mezzo-soprano before the processional.
hi by the way, i'm new here.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Advent I (family service): first candle lit on wreath, then Matin Responsory by Palestrina, into penitential rite. Different, less ornate musical setting; Sunday School presentation on Advent in sermon slot, then they do intercessions and offertory procession. Purple vestments.
Advent II (parish eucharist): as above but without SS involvement. This is the record of John by Gibbons.
Advent III (matins): The Litany. Benedicite and Jubilate. Rose frontal.
Advent IV (parish eucharist) as II but with Ave Maria by Parsons. O Come, O come Emmanuel and Lo, he comes with clouds.
Carol Services: 9 lessons for the traditionalists (full church) plus another "community" carols with more congregational involvement.
Festal evensong on Christmas Eve with proper Office Hymn plus setting of canticles in F by Dyson.
Tree for community carols which is then removed until Christmas Eve.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
Two Advent questions.
1) why purple? i mean why is that colour used what is its significance?
And then...
What hymn or words opens Advent at your church or chapel?
I think we often start with the first hymn in the book! Appropriate for a new church liturgical year.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.
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Even more so than I was before
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by so wound up:
hi by the way, i'm new here.
Welcome aboard.
I am looking forward to singing "Lo, He Comes with Clouds Descending" this Sunday. One of my favorite hymns.
It was lovely to walk through the church at dusk this week with my new rector, who saw our blue frontals "live" for the first time (i.e., set up in the sanctuary, not just hanging in the sacristy) and was overcome with how beautiful they are.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
What hymn or words opens Advent at your church or chapel?
'O Come O Come Emmanuel' this year: which is preceeded by a reading from Henri Nouwen. which flows so nicely into the processional:
Lord Jesus, Master of both the light and the darkness
send your Holy Spirit upon our preparations for Christmas.
We who have so much to do seek quiet spaces
to hear your voice each day.
We who are anxious over many things
look forward to your coming among us.
We who are blessed in so many ways
long for the complete joy of your kingdom.
We whose hearts are heavy seek the joy of your presence.
We are your people, walking in darkness, yet seeking the light.
To you we say, "Come Lord Jesus!"
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Mamacita, any chance of some pics of your new frontal (and I hazard a guess vestmnents to go with it?)? I'm looking at going into blue for next Advent - and just haven't come up with any material that I really like.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.
Thanks, that rather begs the question why not the same purple.
I see both seasons more as seasons of preparation, part of which includes penitence.
By the way isn't that Nouwen quote good.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
At older fashioned Anglican places with catholic leanings, I've known Advent mass start (breathtakingly) with the Advent Prose in Enlgish, Drop down ye heavens from above, with an alto soloist starting.
What a relief not to have strophic hymns all the time.
As a matter of interest, what is the original liturgical use of this piece in the Latin rite?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.
Thanks, that rather begs the question why not the same purple.
Needs must in many (most?) parishes who can only afford one set of purple. But given the choice, my sense is that Advent penitence is of a rather different character from Lenten penitence, though it might be hard to defend that theologically. Advent is shot through with hope, 'stand erect, hold your heads high'. Lent is more associated, in the popular mind anyway, with Christ in the desert and resisting temptation, shading into the Cross towards 'passiontide' It's all in the light of Easter, of course, but tradition tends to keep that light well hidden, whereas throughout Advent it keeps bursting out.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
At older fashioned Anglican places with catholic leanings, I've known Advent mass start (breathtakingly) with the Advent Prose
It would be a shame if this was just confined to 'old-fashioned' places. But that probably means I've just outed myself as old-fashioned.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
I've been asked by a couple of agnostic-ish people in the last couple of weeks what Advent is about and the idea of penitence has come up both times. My answer is to explain that the emphasis is somewhat different. In Lent the focus is on penitence in a very direct way, whilst in Advent I would say that it is more about preparation. Reminding ourselves that we will all have to give an account of ourselves one day and that now is the time to make sure that we are ready. Christ may turn up in the most unlikely of places (even cow-troughs) so Wachtet auf!
Of course, chances are that preparation will involve repenting of our misdoings - but the emphasis is, to me, different.
Now as to the question of purple - I'm really quite agnostic about this. I would say that the hymns and readings used in this period ought to make the theme abundantly clear, which is why the temptation to jump the gun and have Christmas carols too early is probably a mistake. Sermons should also reflect this. Is any benefit to trying to express the message with subtle tones of liturgical dress? Almost certainly not - use liturgical colours to reinforce the point, but unambiguous teaching is what is really needed.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
Mamacita, any chance of some pics of your new frontal (and I hazard a guess vestmnents to go with it?)? I'm looking at going into blue for next Advent - and just haven't come up with any material that I really like.
I would be happy to, if you don't mind waiting until the weekend so I can take new photos (the ones I took last year are in poor light and don't do justice to the colors).
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
To morrow we start with the Advent litinay
process around the prerimeter of the church then down the nave . After which I assume we will light the advent candle,
Then afternoon on 09/12 Advent carol service, the Christmas one comes later.
Have a blessed Advent
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif) ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.
Thanks, that rather begs the question why not the same purple.
I see both seasons more as seasons of preparation, part of which includes penitence.
By the way isn't that Nouwen quote good.
I tend to equate Advent with the 'Gesimas oth of which are kind 'OK, you lot, pay attention seasons!' The violet is somber, but not really penitential. OTOH, Lent is time to break out the Array with its illusions to the instruments of the Passion, and sackcloth colour, and to remove colour in general from the liturgy. Red and black sneak back in at Passiontide but the visuals are still very limited.
PD
[ 02. December 2012, 03:05: Message edited by: PD ]
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Mamacita, only too happy to wait until you have some pics ready.
Our Advent season of preparation kicked off well today: to pick up a couple of points others have raised or commented on:
** "O Come, O Come' follwed on the Nouwen reading and to pick up the excitment of being people of hope, we did not drag it along, as so often can be the case
**The youngest member of the community, a lively 3 year old (whom I had the pleasure of baptising a couple of years ago, and his father as well later on), enjoyed lighting the candle of hope
**The 'O Come' which featured in the antiphon and the hymn was echosed in the intercession when at the end of each the intercessor said + response:
Maranatha:
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
**In place of the Angelus we used the Alma Redemptoris Mater, with the traditional chant being played in the background.
During coffee time people commented that they had felt and understood better the change in liturgical seasons; that they now saw why the focus of the First Sunday in Advent was on the Second Coming; and how we have to be preparing not just for festivities but with our Lord's Coming, whenever that happens (fitted nicely in with some comments on the Mayan Calendar and other forms of 'the end is nigh'!
As a liturgist, I think I can say with some degree of confidence, "By jove, I think we got it!"
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Last year Advent was as follows at a church I know, which has vestments, incense and a very high standard choir:
Advent 1 Sermon devoted to encouraging us to send a Christmas card to a prisoner. (I have been doing this for years at my previous church, where it was mentioned under the notices.) No reference to the readings.
Advent 2. The annual Toy Service, in which children bring presents to church for those less fortunate than themselves. (And where do the less fortunate go to church, I wondered?) Young people in church for the whole service and giving two dramatised presentations. Two hymns were “This little light of mine” and “If I had a hammer”. (I will admit that the curate’s jazz riff on the piano was the best thing in the service.) The lectionary readings were replaced by one gospel reading, and that not from the lectionary.
Advent 3 Two large Christmas trees in place because from that evening on there would be the first in a succession of carol services. The sermon made no reference to the readings but plenty to the Christmas trees. It was a condemnation of those who believe Christmas celebrations should not be anticipated. Lots of people who don’t go to church go to carol services and this was an evangelistic opportunity. Don’t be stuffy and not join in.
Advent 4. The curate preached on the readings of the day with a sober but unambiguous exposition of the place of Mary in the Christian faith. I thanked him warmly as I left.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
Yesterday, I visited a church where the Advent wreath included four purple candles (fair enough) and the central candle was the Paschal Candle. Is this common? What are you thoughts on it? It struck me as being in danger of confusing symbols a bit.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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venbede
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# 16669
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Posted
Possibly a bit confused. Almost certainly very confused.
But I believe the Roman rite allows the lighting of the Paschal Candle on all greater feasts outside Easter, so it could be seen as building up to the major feast of Christmas.
There is a danger in splitting the Incarnation and the Atonement, Christmas and Easter, and if this is trying to show their unity it could be a good thing.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Emendator Liturgia
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# 17245
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Posted
Personally, I'd prefer the use of the three purple and one rose candle (even if no rose vestments) - and a white Christ candle. That way, as suggested, the avoid the problem of one symbol being overlaid on another, to the detriment of both.
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Well that was a most satisfactory beginning at my current MotR House of Refuge... Advent Prose, Come thou long-expected Jesus and... Wachtet Auf! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
I enjoyed that!
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Flinging wide the gates...
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.
We sang them yesterday afternoon at Buckfast Abbey. Each O Antiphon (after each Advent collect and reading) was sung by young voices, then SATB, then followed by a hymn or anthem.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.
We sang them yesterday afternoon at Buckfast Abbey. Each O Antiphon (after each Advent collect and reading) was sung by young voices, then SATB, then followed by a hymn or anthem.
They start on 17 December. C of E Daily Prayer does that, and the Roman rite always has.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Purple is the colour of penitence. Advent is a penitential season, as is Lent. However, Advent purple is not Lenten purple.
Thanks, that rather begs the question why not the same purple.
I see both seasons more as seasons of preparation, part of which includes penitence.
By the way isn't that Nouwen quote good.
I tend to equate Advent with the 'Gesimas PD
So do I. The church i attended in my teens used to use silvery blue vestments, frontal and riddel curtains for both. Much better than purple.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Meant to add - this morning we also launched crib figures Mary and Joseph on their journey - they go to a different house each night until they reach the Christingle service on Christmas Eve.
The rota tries to alternate between people from the two churches in our benefice in an attempt to help people get to know each other better.
I think it's called 'Possada'.
(As Mary and Joseph weren't married, I wonder if they sleep in separate bedrooms!)
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.
We sang them yesterday afternoon at Buckfast Abbey. Each O Antiphon (after each Advent collect and reading) was sung by young voices, then SATB, then followed by a hymn or anthem.
Just come back from the Advent Procession at Liverpool Cathedral, based on the Antiphons (which were sung to plainchant and English words). Very impressive and moving. It might be 'wrong' to sing them at Evening Prayer before 17 December, but they are profound and scriptural and set the tone well at the beginning of Advent in this context.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Galilit
Shipmate
# 16470
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Posted
The Veni Immanuel and an "armour of light" collect and several mentions of "Mary" - we have begun!
Although the wreath has 4 red candles; the pine cones are the same size, the greenery is very green and the poinsettia's behind are very red.
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She who does Her Son's will in all things can rely on me to do Hers.
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I would hope no one is yet into the O antiphons: they should start on the 16th December and then be sung daily up to Christmas Eve: likewise, to have O come, O come Emmanuel as a hymn at the beginning of Advent is just plain wrong.
We sang them yesterday afternoon at Buckfast Abbey. Each O Antiphon (after each Advent collect and reading) was sung by young voices, then SATB, then followed by a hymn or anthem.
Just come back from the Advent Procession at Liverpool Cathedral, based on the Antiphons (which were sung to plainchant and English words). Very impressive and moving. It might be 'wrong' to sing them at Evening Prayer before 17 December, but they are profound and scriptural and set the tone well at the beginning of Advent in this context.
It makes sense to restrict their use to the last week if you have significant daily services. If, however, you have fewer services, it would be silly to abandon such a key Christian resource for understanding Advent!
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