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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hazing
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
In numerous books, films and TV shows I have seen references to "hazing" in America. It seems to run like this: At College (University, I think) there are powerful groups that everyone wants to (has to?) be part of. To get into such a group you have to endure a series of tests, that range from the embarrassing to the pornographic.
All of which makes me wonder:
* do these tests really exist?
* are they more or less widespread now than in the past?
* how bad are the tests?
* how important are these fraternities and sororities?
* if you went through the process, was it worth it?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
In numerous books, films and TV shows I have seen references to "hazing" in America. It seems to run like this: At College (University, I think) there are powerful groups that everyone wants to (has to?) be part of. To get into such a group you have to endure a series of tests, that range from the embarrassing to the pornographic.
All of which makes me wonder:
* do these tests really exist?
* are they more or less widespread now than in the past?
* how bad are the tests?
* how important are these fraternities and sororities?
* if you went through the process, was it worth it?
The importance of the Greek system (fraternities and sororities) depends on the university/college and ties created can help in later life. Students have died or been injured because of hazing and so many universities ban it. At my local university the definition is
quote:
Hazing includes any activity done in connection with a student organization, regardless of whether the organization is officially recognized at Stanford, that causes or is reasonably likely to cause another student to suffer bodily danger, physical harm, or significant personal degradation or humiliation, even if no bodily danger, physical harm, or significant degradation or humiliation in fact results. Hazing might occur during initiation or pre-initiation into a student organization, but is not limited to these time frames. Any individual who plans or intentionally assists in hazing activity has engaged in hazing, regardless of whether that individual is present when the hazing activity occurs.
Consent either implicit or explicit is not considered a defense. Punishment can (and has) ranged up to expulsion of the students and the organization.
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spinner of webs
Posts: 1093 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
Never mind the USA, it happened at my halls of residence in Leeds. One of the last bastions of all-male accommodation, every year they had a "Smoker". This was essentially an opportunity to get all of the first years shit-faced, and pressured into doing various idiotic things. Everyone was supposed to go up to the main site, the gates were locked, and then it went south from there.
It wasn't strictly a hazing in the fraternity sense, but it was very much a rite of passage in order to be accepted into the Hall community (a bizarre mix of public school boys, rugger buggers, classicists/musicians, and anyone committed enough to put Christian on their application form).
I made it my business to sod off out with some other friends, and sleep on a mate's floor that night; a decision I have never once regretted. If I'm going to get puking drunk and do idiotic things, I'll do it under my own initiative, thanks very much.
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
As far as I know, the Greek societies are banned or if not, they were never formed. In one of the universities I attended (Saskatchewan), they explicitly state "The University had made a decision to have a residence rather than fraternity system for their student housing, believing residences were more democratic." The same uinversity states "Discrimination and harassment are illegal..." and it lumps hazing into the same category things that are clearly criminal.
Glad to see this. They also banned freshying (hazing of freshies, grade 9 students, first year of high school) some time in the early 1980s I believe in our local public schools (means government funded), and the code of conduct became general to every school governed by the education act. I think under the provincial education acts in most places, hazing is generally referred to police and the student suspended. As someone who was thoroughly humiliated, beaten repeatedly (running the gauntlet) and made to do things with fæces ec, as well as other degrading and painful things, I can only support the complete criminalization of such behaviour. The experience still makes me angry some almost 40 years later. One boy did sue the school and had an out of court settlement, but he actually had some permanent physical injuries.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Nearest we got was the tradition of throwing flour and eggs at folk after they came out of their last final exam. Everyone knew it was going to happen and you wore an old top. It was harmless.
But I don't think that was hazing in the American sense.
Our campus accommodation was allocated by the university, not society based in any way.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Two people I knew, who went to the same all male teacher training college in the UK, but at different times, told very similar stories of "jokes" played on a fellow student who was induced to get out of a window on the ground floor with no clothes on and move round the building. In at least one case, this was in the snow. One case involved him having to ride a horse like Lady Godiva. The "joke" also involved the opening of other windows as if to let the victim in, and then slamming them shut.
One of the men was a very nice person, the other not so much so, but both thought it had been a hoot. I had the impression that the nice one thought that it had all been done in non-malicious fun, but then, he wasn't the guy on the horse. There's obviously a line that gets crossed in this sort of thing.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I believe it has been alleged that it happens in the army to a certain extent. Now reframed as bullying.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
My college ( Bard College ) didn't have frats or sororities, a fact which we were all obscurely proud of. I've certainly never felt the lack of having never belonged to one. My daughter's college did have them, but she didn't belong to one, and her friends all seem to have rather made fun of them.
[ 21. April 2013, 19:33: Message edited by: Nicolemr ]
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
It is fairly common for athletic teams as well. Even the pros- rookie hazing is sometimes covered by the media.
We had a strong Greek system at my school. We were out in the middle of the woods, so it was the main social outlet. My fraternity had a strong no hazing culture, but others did not. Tasks that other pledges had to perform included house clean-up, late night snack runs for big brothers, and the occasional prank. One fraternity was famous for making their pledges spend 24 hours on a small raft in the middle of a small lake. I don't think there was a lot of physical abuse on our campus, but I do know that there were occasional "hell nights" in which pledges would have to perform tasks or drink as punishment. Getting caught having a hell night carried serious consequences, although as you might expect, few pledges were willing to come forward and say anything.
The only time my fraternity did anything remotely resembling hazing was on mock ritual night, when, a few nights before their formal initiation, the new guys would put us through some sort of satirical or comic ritual. It usually involved a few assigned pranks, such as streaking the quad, hiding condoms around the library, serenading a girls' dormitory, or pressing our butts against the college President's house. It was nice because it was no pressure- the new guys were telling the initiated guys what to do, so there was no element of "do it or you're out." And I will say that it was always a lot of fun, just because causing that kind of trouble is fun.
A fraternity was exactly what I needed as an 18 year old. I was quiet, shy, and I came to school not knowing anyone. Had the guy downstairs not started inviting me to parties and to play intramural sports with his fraternity, I might have been pretty lonely. So joining was worth it for me. I am glad I didn't have to tolerate hazing, and I would advise anyone considering rushing to ask around and see if there is a house that doesn't haze. But I think it is a system that still offers quite a bit to some young folks.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Difficult to belong if you come from a faith group that doesn't drink.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Doesn't the church do hazing?
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Doesn't the church do hazing?
You need to unpack this a little before it can be responded to, if you were interested in people responding to it (i.e. taking part in the conversation).
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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loggats
Shipmate
# 17643
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Posted
Archbishops don't even pretend to slap you at Confirmation anymore... so yup, not much ecclesial hazing going on these days! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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"He brought me into the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love."
Posts: 245 | Registered: Apr 2013
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poileplume
Shipmate
# 16438
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Posted
It’s not just the students who suffer. I used to live next to McGill University in Montreal. The locals narrated their Freshers’ Week experiences, like the Anglo Saxon chronicle documenting the Viking invasions.
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Please note I am quite severely dyslexic
Posts: 319 | From: Quebec | Registered: May 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Snags:
Never mind the USA, it happened at my halls of residence in Leeds. One of the last bastions of all-male accommodation, every year they had a "Smoker". This was essentially an opportunity to get all of the first years shit-faced, and pressured into doing various idiotic things. Everyone was supposed to go up to the main site, the gates were locked, and then it went south from there.
It wasn't strictly a hazing in the fraternity sense, but it was very much a rite of passage in order to be accepted into the Hall community (a bizarre mix of public school boys, rugger buggers, classicists/musicians, and anyone committed enough to put Christian on their application form).
I made it my business to sod off out with some other friends, and sleep on a mate's floor that night; a decision I have never once regretted. If I'm going to get puking drunk and do idiotic things, I'll do it under my own initiative, thanks very much.
Devonshire, Hall of the bouncy fried egg yolks?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
posted by mouse:
quote:
You need to unpack this a little before it can be responded to, if you were interested in people responding to it (i.e. taking part in the conversation).
Fair enough, it was a passing thought but I didn't mean it trivially. It just struck me that the church ticks some of the boxes regarding hazing: being part of a group, rituals for entry, discernment processes for various things and of course the public humiliation (corporate and private acts of confession and I imagine at least once admitting your a miserable sinner in a public service). I guess you could say that about anything in some ways, but then part of what hazing is in campuses is possibly a microcosm of the macrocosm.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Devonshire, Hall of the bouncy fried egg yolks?
Wouldn't surprise me. All sorts of stuff went on there.
I was at Otley. Much more civilised.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
Earnshaw at Sheffield had its League of Gentlemen which was a society based on doing stupid things to gain entry. Not many privileges apart from the odd free beer and getting to push to the front of the queue occasionally but people seemed to want to get into it. IIRC (through an alcoholic haze) I infiltrated a rival hall (Tapton?) and filled the lavatory cisterns with a powerful foaming agent before having a photograph taken of me mooning the President of their JCR.
Fun days!
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
After a high profile hazing death at Chico State in California, there was a big crackdown on hazing, both by colleges and universities, and by state legislatures--in many states, hazing is a misdemeanor at best, and a felony if it leads to death or serious injury. However, as the Florida A&M University hazing death 2 years ago shows, the laws aren't particularly good deterrents.
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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351
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Posted
Karl, I couldn't possibly say. Yes.
Getting out of halls and into proper housing was marvellous. Although I had it lucky; at Dev I was in a house off the main site, and sent most of the year sleeping elsewhere anyway.
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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)
Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
Earnshaw at Sheffield had its League of Gentlemen which was a society based on doing stupid things to gain entry.
I was in Stephenson. I have no idea why, as I was incredibly ill-suited to an all-male rugger-bugger environment... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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