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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Big Body Squad - Wales
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
I was watching the above (8pm, Channel 5 Tuesdays) and it mentioned that 57% of Welsh adults are overweight or obese. Can anyone explain why this province has this problem?
The only time I go there is to walk in the hills or coastal areas. I would have thought that access to gardens to grow fruit & veg & the wet climate also makes it easier to eat healthily.
I could understand people going for convenience foods and takeaways if they had lots of money & little time due to full employment, but I don't think that's the case.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
I could understand people going for convenience foods and takeaways if they had lots of money & little time due to full employment, but I don't think that's the case.
In the United States at least, people who go for convenience foods are frequently not those with lots of money and full employment. You eat fast food for cheap calories, and cheap calories do not usually come in the form of fresh healthy food.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
I'm a little surprised the figure is that high. It's partly because the traditional Welsh physique is short and stocky, so if you calculate strictly by BMI a lot of people will show as overweight even if their weight is not that huge. I've worked in social services in South Wales for about 12 years and have seen a lot of people, particularly (not exclusively) in the poorer areas who struggle to keep their weight down. We don't see all that many people who are seriously obese.
Although a large percentage of the land in Wales is countryside, not that many of the Welsh live in country areas. As Wikipedia will inform you, two-thirds of the population live in the urban areas along the M4 corridor, i.e. Cardiff/Newport, Swansea/Port Talbot and the surrounding Valleys towns.
Posts: 689 | From: S Wales | Registered: Jun 2008
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
In the United States at least, people who go for convenience foods are frequently not those with lots of money and full employment. You eat fast food for cheap calories, and cheap calories do not usually come in the form of fresh healthy food.
On Radio4's Question Time a couple of weeks ago, an employer said that since her company had committed itself to paying its workers a "living wage" rather than "minimum wage", they'd seen a noticeable improvement in workers' health and wellbeing, and she had seen workers eating more healthily at lunchtime. Poverty and obesity are linked.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
On Radio4's Question Time a couple of weeks ago, an employer said that since her company had committed itself to paying its workers a "living wage" rather than "minimum wage", they'd seen a noticeable improvement in workers' health and wellbeing, and she had seen workers eating more healthily at lunchtime. Poverty and obesity are linked.
That's interesting.
I wondered if we have a generation who have lost the habit of using locally produced fruit & veg since convenience foods & microwaves boomed in the 60s-80s.
Now the economies of scale are with cheap, factory-produces, chemically-laced stuff that is more profitable for the local shops than local produce.
There are a plethora of TV cooking shows but the last time I sat through one they used about 20 ingredients, some of which I'd never heard of and wouldn't use again for weeks, i.e. these shows are out-of-touch.
It would actually cost the public purse less in the medium term to spend money incentivising use of local produce & a bit of education.
I just remembered that Wales now has it's own government, which runs offices in far-flung places but doctors have been warning that the need of the poor unhealthy Welsh is more pressing. The WAG seems to have other priorities.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
In the United States at least, people who go for convenience foods are frequently not those with lots of money and full employment. You eat fast food for cheap calories, and cheap calories do not usually come in the form of fresh healthy food.
On Radio4's Question Time a couple of weeks ago, an employer said that since her company had committed itself to paying its workers a "living wage" rather than "minimum wage", they'd seen a noticeable improvement in workers' health and wellbeing, and she had seen workers eating more healthily at lunchtime. Poverty and obesity are linked.
Poverty and poor health are linked, that is not the same as obesity. Obesity and health can co-exist perfectly well. See 'Health At Every Size'.
*is self-described fat person and also healthy*
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
I just remembered that Wales now has it's own government, which runs offices in far-flung places but doctors have been warning that the need of the poor unhealthy Welsh is more pressing. The WAG seems to have other priorities.
Ah, now we see what NJA is up to. No concern for Wales and the Welsh, just a cheap shot at the Welsh Assembly Government.
Would NJA be interested to note that in England, which doesn't have its own parliament but is effectively run from Westminster, has some 61.3% of adults are overweight or obese? Thought not.
Obesity is a problem across the whole of the UK (and in this chair for a start) and I could point the finger at long journeys to work (what exercise can you do in the car, on a bus or on the train?), the cheapness of easy to prepare food that is invariably unhealthy, the reduction in smoking and, certainly in Newport, the council's policy to move recreational facilities out from the centre of town so one has to drive to the bloody things!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
If you use the BMI measure to judge if a person is overweight or obese, then it's certainly possible to be overweight and very healthy: most rugby players (perhaps significantly for Wales!) would register as overweight or obese, simply because of their stocky build. Personally, I'm at a loss to know why we still use BMI when it's so unreliable as a measure of how much fat a person is carrying.
Even so, yes, you can be fat and healthy, provided you're generally active and take appropriate exercise. But it's much more probable that being fat, and having an inactive lifestyle, will significantly increase your risk of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, liver disease, some common cancers, and a ton of other stuff too. And this kind of overweightness is very definitely linked to poverty, simply because cheaper food - particularly cheaper meat - tends to have a higher fat content.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I'm the opposite of the athlete who gets a false reading on the BMI scale. I have very small bones so even though I know I'm fatter than I should be the number on the scale makes my doctor happy and I don't get the lectures, but I really feel sorry for friends who eat less than I do, go to the gym and still don't lose weight.
Doctors keep telling us we're fat and that by being too fat we increase our risks of several diseases. What they never tell us is how to lose weight and keep it off.
Sure they say that if we eat more fruits and vegetables, less fat and sugar and increase activity we should lose weight. Even assuming we knew what was meant by "more," when the doctor doesn't know our starting point, this advice is vague and not always proven effective over the long term. It doesn't really happen for all people and for the ones whose bodies do respond to low calorie diets, there is about a 95% chance they will regain. That's what I would call a failed program but the doctors keep putting people on it.
More and more studies are having unexpected results. Some show that the overweight kids don't eat any more junk food or sit in front of TV any longer than the skinny kids. A school in West Virginia tried educating the kids about food choices, serving only healthy lunches and adding an exercise program. The average weight of the students didn't change.
Elementary school children in the U.S. went from a rate of 6.5% obese to 19.5% in the years from 1980 to 2008. It's not like the kids in 1980 were working on the farm and eating fresh food from the garden. They were watching TV, eating at fast food restaurants and snacking on Twinkies just like they are now. What is going on? I don't think the answers are in yet.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
More and more studies are having unexpected results. Some show that the overweight kids don't eat any more junk food or sit in front of TV any longer than the skinny kids. A school in West Virginia tried educating the kids about food choices, serving only healthy lunches and adding an exercise program. The average weight of the students didn't change.
Elementary school children in the U.S. went from a rate of 6.5% obese to 19.5% in the years from 1980 to 2008. It's not like the kids in 1980 were working on the farm and eating fresh food from the garden. They were watching TV, eating at fast food restaurants and snacking on Twinkies just like they are now. What is going on? I don't think the answers are in yet.
We eat far more processed foods now then we did 30 years ago - I never ate a ready meal in my 1970s, early 80s childhood and never went into a Macdonalds until i left school in 1985. And I seldom had many snacks either.
Modern diets don't always teach good eating habits, they often encourage the eating of marketed low fat items which are high in sugars and often heavily processed and they also suggest ways of snacking between meals. It is hardly surprising that people don't maintain weight loss after diets when they haven't learnt good habits. But that wouldn't be profitable for slimming organisations.
Add this to a sedentary lifestyle and it is a recipe for obesity.
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Ah, now we see what NJA is up to. No concern for Wales and the Welsh, just a cheap shot at the Welsh Assembly Government.
Wrong actually. It was as I wrote, genuine trying to understand research followed by discovery of what the WAG has/n't done at the end.
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Would NJA be interested to note that in England, which doesn't have its own parliament but is effectively run from Westminster, has some 61.3% of adults are overweight or obese? Thought not.
I wasn't aware, the program and the webpages I read didn't make that point, so thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
[qbOriginally posted by Sioni Sais:
Obesity is a problem across the whole of the UK (and in this chair for a start) and I could point the finger at long journeys to work (what exercise can you do in the car, on a bus or on the train?)
Walk/cycle to/from the station, walk at lunchtime, go to a gym or swimming pool after work.
If you have family make sure you do activity involving exercise a couple of times a week.
You have to admit, wales does have nice walking areas?
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
... the council's policy to move recreational facilities out from the centre of town so one has to drive to the bloody things!
Surely the council had to canvass the population before spending it's money like that?
[ 17. April 2013, 08:14: Message edited by: NJA ]
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
NJA: quote:
You have to admit, wales does have nice walking areas?
You saw the bit where Sioni Sais pointed out that most Welsh people live in towns or cities, didn't you?
Besides - speaking as someone who was brought up in the English Lake District - the fact that these 'nice walking areas' are on your doorstep does not necessarily mean that you are going to spend all your spare time going for Nice Healthy Walks, for the following reasons:
1. You may not have any spare time for long country walks, because you're too busy working/looking after your family/trying to find a job.
2. These lovely scenic areas may not be particularly close to where you live. I have friends brought up in the south of England who know the area around Windermere better than I do; they had holidays there, I was brought up in the Workington/Whitehaven area and Windermere was too far for an easy day trip and not far enough away to justify going there on holiday. Mid-Wales is beautiful, but it's a long way away from the most populated areas.
3. This may come as a shock to you, but some people don't like going for walks in the countryside. They might prefer going to a gym or a dance class or a swimming pool, but as Sioni pointed out there may be practical reasons why they can't. Outside big cities like London and Manchester public transport is patchy and unreliable, and cars are expensive.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
It's partly an educational thing and partly a poverty/socio-economic thing.
A survey in Glasgow found that people in Easterhouse and other poorer areas actually had higher food bills than people in the city's posh West End.
Why? Because they only had convenience stores selling high-priced goods and not the choice and range found in the larger supermarkets nor the specialist foody shops in the more well-to-do areas.
So not only did they have a worse diet, they were also paying a lot more for it.
A similar survey by Glasgow University more recently found that people from the poorer areas of the city were less likely to take part in the city's popular charity marathons and other fun-runs.
There are socio-demographic reasons for all of this.
You can't just look at Wales and say, 'look, they've got the Gower Peninsula, the Brecon Beacons, the Pembrokeshire Coast Path ... why don't they all go walking around those to keep fit?'
Rambling and hiking and so on are predominantly - but not exclusively - more middle-class activities.
My brother lives in the South Wales Valleys and does a curry delivery round a few nights a week. Not so long ago he did a pizza delivery round on top of his day job. He says that he's now delivering curries to the same people that he used to deliver pizzas to. These people live on different take-aways on different nights of the week. They don't know how to cook for themselves.
It's easy to point the finger and say, 'lazy Welsh chavs, they don't know what's good for them ...' but like it or not, that's the culture we're dealing with in the Valleys.
He took a pizza order to one house to be greeted by the largest and most obese woman he'd ever seen in his life. She'd ordered everything, an immense pizza, chips, side-orders, relish, you name it ...
As he handed over her food order she asked for her Coke. My brother reached into his delivery bag and drew out a bottle for her.
'Diet Coke!' she bellowed. 'I ordered Diet Coke, I en' 'avin' it if it en' Diet Coke ...'
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
NJA - the possibilities of walking, cycling etc. are bleedin' obvious, even to "Welsh chavs" (c) Gamaliel.
The question that public health bodies need to address is "if these possibilities are so obvious, why do people not take them up?"
IME people raise these "obvious possibilities" not to try to solve the problem, but in order to be able to say "it's their own fault so I don't need to let it concern me in any way".
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
He took a pizza order to one house to be greeted by the largest and most obese woman he'd ever seen in his life. She'd ordered everything, an immense pizza, chips, side-orders, relish, you name it ...
Which can't mean she's at all poor - all this would be far more expensive than a piece of fish and healthy veg.
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
Not half, I recently took one of my relatives to task for begging money from me for a Dominoes Pizza meal. The twenty five quid she wanted for one meal for two people could feed them healthily for about three or four days minimum.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
He took a pizza order to one house to be greeted by the largest and most obese woman he'd ever seen in his life. She'd ordered everything, an immense pizza, chips, side-orders, relish, you name it ...
Which can't mean she's at all poor - all this would be far more expensive than a piece of fish and healthy veg.
But she wouldn't like a piece of fish and healthy veg. She has become conditioned to like junk food, with it's high salt and sugar levels, high in carbs and fat and low in nutrients. Her one nod at 'health' is a drink containing artificial sugar. Society has become addicted to processed and junk food which provide little nutritional content. And she won't have the traditional working class active lifestyle needed to burn off those carbs, as she might have in the past.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
He took a pizza order to one house to be greeted by the largest and most obese woman he'd ever seen in his life. She'd ordered everything, an immense pizza, chips, side-orders, relish, you name it ...
Which can't mean she's at all poor - all this would be far more expensive than a piece of fish and healthy veg.
But she wouldn't like a piece of fish and healthy veg. She has become conditioned to like junk food, with it's high salt and sugar levels, high in carbs and fat and low in nutrients. Her one nod at 'health' is a drink containing artificial sugar. Society has become addicted to processed and junk food which provide little nutritional content. And she won't have the traditional working class active lifestyle needed to burn off those carbs, as she might have in the past.
We're all conditioned to go for fat, sugar and salt - it's genetic. Some of us have been educated out of it. Whatever the reasons, there is a clear correlation between obesity and poverty.
Here's a stab at the reasons: Although it's true that it is possible to eat healthily on a low budget, it is quite difficult to cater for a family with conventional tastes on a low budget particularly if you have restricted cooking facilities (including having to stick money in a meter) and/or restricted access to the right kind of shops.
And here's another: if you come from a community when men have traditionally done hard physical work (mining, farming) and have traditionally needed big meals, then that can be a very hard habit to break when the work disappears.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Boogie/Bob - same goes for this as for the exercise issue. Why do people not go for the apparently obvious options? I don't think these public health problems cannot be addressed without answering that question.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I am very aware of the class issue in obesity as although I am middle class (due to escaping my background and marrying an academic), my family is very working class. I come from a large family living on the roughest council estate in Luton. Almost all my family are overweight and I have relatives who are morbidly obese, who wouldn't walk as far as the local shops and live on junk food. They would all think the idea of a walking holiday absurd, it just isn't part of the culture. Living here in Cambridge is a complete contrast, there are few obese mothers or kids in the playground.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Walking holidays are a bit of a big jump - I'm more interested in where you say "wouldn't walk as far as the local shops". Why is that, do you think?
It's obviously a generation on from my own working class upbringing, which meant regularly walking to the bus stop for the bus into town, then walking the length and breadth of the town visiting several shops because it was known that bananas were 1/2p cheaper a pound at Finefare...
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
Sorry, didn't mean walking holidays but generally walking for leisure.
I don't know why they don't walk anywhere. I suppose it is convenience they like, just as in their food. They are terrific consumers, I think, which might be relevant and which isn't a very middle class thing, ime. And working class people aren't necessarily very poor, as shown by the discussion on takeaways. Most of my relatives work.
As a child I had to walk to the shops to buy extras in the week, and I remember walking back from town after looking for a Saturday job and being skint. But despite going camping as a child and days out by the river in Bedford I don't remember ever walking anywhere for enjoyment or leisure then as I would now.
[ 17. April 2013, 11:32: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Walking holidays are a bit of a big jump - I'm more interested in where you say "wouldn't walk as far as the local shops". Why is that, do you think?
It's obviously a generation on from my own working class upbringing, which meant regularly walking to the bus stop for the bus into town, then walking the length and breadth of the town visiting several shops because it was known that bananas were 1/2p cheaper a pound at Finefare...
Time to put your order in at Ocado.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
Almost all my family are overweight and I have relatives who are morbidly obese, who wouldn't walk as far as the local shops and live on junk food ... Living here in Cambridge is a complete contrast, there are few obese mothers or kids in the playground.
Yes, I see the same difference between Ipswich and Bury St. Edmunds. And we haven't even begun to mention smoking ...
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
Modern diets don't always teach good eating habits, they often encourage the eating of marketed low fat items which are high in sugars and often heavily processed and they also suggest ways of snacking between meals. It is hardly surprising that people don't maintain weight loss after diets when they haven't learnt good habits. But that wouldn't be profitable for slimming organisations.
Add this to a sedentary lifestyle and it is a recipe for obesity.
Why would you assume that dieters haven't learned good eating habits? It's not all Slimfast and "organizations." Most good, long term, successful diets consist of nothing but practice of good eating habits.
Several times I've lost weight by giving up all sweets -- for a year. Just now I've been on a 1200 calorie per day diet for 11 months. I've eaten well balanced, low-fat, sugar free meals for 11 months and lost quite a bit of weight but I know from past experience that I will gain it back. Just like almost everyone else does after a few years.
I constantly hear people discussing this subject as though they have the answers when none of these problems or solutions have been proved.
Too much processed food? I agree that highly processed food, high fructose corn syrup, trans fats, are all bad for you but 100 calories of bologna is the same as a hundred calories of chicken breast when it comes to weight gain. Foods high in fat and protein do have a longer satiety rate than carbs and a high carbohydrate diet causes higher insulin but this information applies to the amount of hunger you will feel on your diet, not the actual weight loss which still comes down to calories in/calories out ratio, for the most part.
Fast food? I eat out at places like MacDonalds several times a week. They're great places for dieters because the calorie count is available and standardized. The chicken salad I get at MacDonalds is exactly 390 calories with the dressing.
Go to the gym? Thirty minutes on a recumbent bike burns about the same number of calories as are in an apple. Walking? I was walking 3 miles a day while I was gaining all my excess weight. Weight lifting to raise metabolism? It takes most women about six months to gain even a few pounds of muscle.
While visiting my doctor about a year ago I mentioned that my weight was higher than it had ever been. He didn't bring it up because, as I said, my BMI number wasn't too bad. He told me he had no idea how to help me because I have a bad knee and can't do any aerobic activity. I was so shocked at his false, "You can't lose if you can't exercise," assumption that it motivated me to lose this weight with diet alone.
There have been some good books in recent years by people like Paul Campos and Gina Kolata that point out how the obesity epidemic is over-hyped while the real, permanent solutions are pretty much non existent.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
<cross-post with everything since Karl's post>
You can exercise all you want, if you eat correspondingly more, then your weight will not drop. I think lots of people have been frustrated by "exercise for weight loss" because they did not also control their diet carefully. The maintenance of body weight is a fairly automatic process, and if one has easy access to food, as most of us do, then typically one will eat to compensate for extra calorie usage (e.g., through exercise) without thinking.
Trying to significantly lower one's body weight, and to then maintain it, generally requires considerable effort and discipline over long stretches of time. I doubt that we will ever get the majority of the population doing this. The more interesting question really is why the "natural" weight of people, the one that they keep without particular effort and discipline, has shot up so much. And why that has happened more in some places than in others.
If you look at the graphic here, then we have to ask ourselves what the difference is between say the ten leanest European nations (Romania, Switzerland, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, France, Denmark, Bulgaria, Austria) and the most fat one, the UK. Frankly, I think it's a bit of a mystery. I'm all for encouraging children and adults to exercise more, but I doubt that the UK is exceptionally bad as compared to all these countries. Neither can I see any clear impact of poverty. Or of traditional style of diet. Or of anything particular, really. The ten leanest EU nations to my eyes differ among themselves as much as the differ from fat Great Britain. Perhaps it is living on an island that makes you fat (given that the four fattest are Iceland, Malta, Ireland and the UK)...
[ 17. April 2013, 11:49: Message edited by: IngoB ]
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
One reason that poor people buy fast food and convenience food is that they do not have well-equipped kitchens where they can prepare food from scratch.
This is not the only reason, of course.
Moo
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Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Another thing - eating unhealthily doesn't always make you fat. I have a friend who eats like a horse, eats food heavily laden with fat and sugar, never exercises and is slim. He's 55, the same age as me.
My son doesn't eat unhealthily and goes everywhere on a bike, but he eats like two horses and drinks a good amount of beer. Size 30 jeans are slack on him.
:jealous:
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
If you look at the graphic here, then we have to ask ourselves what the difference is between say the ten leanest European nations (Romania, Switzerland, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, France, Denmark, Bulgaria, Austria) and the most fat one, the UK.
Much more bike riding for transport?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
One reason that poor people buy fast food and convenience food is that they do not have well-equipped kitchens where they can prepare food from scratch.
Several "pound shops" sell sets of kitchen knives and other equipment, probably incl.
a steamer basket.
I got a pressure cooker from a charity shop, though this isn't the best for preserving vitamins I believe.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
One reason that poor people buy fast food and convenience food is that they do not have well-equipped kitchens where they can prepare food from scratch.
Several "pound shops" sell sets of kitchen knives and other equipment, probably incl.
a steamer basket.
I got a pressure cooker from a charity shop, though this isn't the best for preserving vitamins I believe.
Seems to me, NJA, that your intention here is the aforementioned "it's their fault, so I don't have to worry about it."
Why do you think people don't go and buy these sets and solve the problem themselves? You must have some ideas? Or do you prefer to assume they're lazy, stupid, or both?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
Some people live in rooms with no cooking facilities whatever, and others have only a hotplate. You can't do a lot of cooking under those circumstances.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Seems to me, NJA, that your intention here is the aforementioned "it's their fault, so I don't have to worry about it."
Why do you think people don't go and buy these sets and solve the problem themselves? You must have some ideas? Or do you prefer to assume they're lazy, stupid, or both?
I've already made suggestions, your comments say more about you than me.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Seems to me, NJA, that your intention here is the aforementioned "it's their fault, so I don't have to worry about it."
Why do you think people don't go and buy these sets and solve the problem themselves? You must have some ideas? Or do you prefer to assume they're lazy, stupid, or both?
I've already made suggestions, your comments say more about you than me.
No you haven't. You've made suggestions about what they "should" do; you've made no attempt to explain why in the main they don't.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
I am very aware of the class issue in obesity as although I am middle class (due to escaping my background and marrying an academic), my family is very working class. I come from a large family living on the roughest council estate in Luton. Almost all my family are overweight and I have relatives who are morbidly obese, who wouldn't walk as far as the local shops and live on junk food. They would all think the idea of a walking holiday absurd, it just isn't part of the culture. Living here in Cambridge is a complete contrast, there are few obese mothers or kids in the playground.
That probably just says a lot more about body image and the pressure to conform to local social norms in upper class areas than it does about the proportion of noticeably fat people.
I do agree that walking holidays aren't for everyone though. I can only stand walking for more than a short time if it's a hike with some element of a physical challenge, the idea of walking along a nice path to admire scenery just doesn't work for me. I am open to the possibility of that changing at some later age, but if I do suddenly start liking the idea of a day spent admiring scenery I hope I'll still be up for cycling so that I can admire more scenery in a day than walking
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
You've made suggestions about what they "should" do; you've made no attempt to explain why in the main they don't.
Sorry to have to repeat myself everyone:
"I wondered if we have a generation who have lost the habit of using locally produced fruit & veg since convenience foods & microwaves boomed in the 60s-80s. Now the economies of scale are with cheap, factory-produces, chemically-laced stuff that is more profitable for the local shops than local produce."
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
That probably just says a lot more about body image and the pressure to conform to local social norms in upper class areas than it does about the proportion of noticeably fat people.
No doubt that is part of it but it might also be to due to encouraging cycling here , there is little parking available at school (the school closes the gates to the drive around school drop off for child safety) and about half the school cycles there, and almost all the rest walk. Cambridge is very cycle friendly ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 17. April 2013, 16:36: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Too much processed food? I agree that highly processed food, high fructose corn syrup, trans fats, are all bad for you but 100 calories of bologna is the same as a hundred calories of chicken breast when it comes to weight gain. Foods high in fat and protein do have a longer satiety rate than carbs and a high carbohydrate diet causes higher insulin but this information applies to the amount of hunger you will feel on your diet, not the actual weight loss which still comes down to calories in/calories out ratio, for the most part.
Two points:
1) Losing weight is only about calories in a technical sense. In practice, it's entirely a matter of hunger management, which is why food with a lot of calories and little nutrition causes us to gain weight: eating sugar not only adds calories, it also makes us more hungry. In the long run, our bodies will not allow us to lose weight and keep it off by simply limiting calories because the hunger mechanism is far too effective.
2) With reference to the study you mention about the rise in obesity rates in elementary school children in the U.S. between 1980 and 2008: high fructose corn syrup started being used widely (in the U.S.) around 1980. It is also alleged by some to contribute to obesity and other health problems. Personally, the only success I've had with losing some weight and keeping it off was when I started avoiding foods with high fructose corn syrup as much as I could. I have a strong suspicion that highly processed food is exactly why obesity is generally on the rise in some parts of the world.
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A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by NJA
I was watching the above (8pm, Channel 5 Tuesdays) and it mentioned that 57% of Welsh adults are overweight or obese. Can anyone explain why this province has this problem?
1. As mentioned above, a lot of us are small and with short legs (not me, but...)
2. It rains a lot and feels dank for a lot of the year so we comfort eat - chips for preference.
3. Most important: the Welsh Mam! She'll ask if you'd like pudding, but won't take no for an answer - and the list of possible food she offers is endless. You end up giving in just to keep her happy (also know as "shutting her up".
4. And one of the delights she'll do her best to force on you is - WELSH CAKES! And they're delicious...
NRA - Wales is NOT a province: we were/are a Principality - except an English king killed out last Prince and decided to name his own heir "Prince of Wales".
Cymru i'r Cymry!
[ 17. April 2013, 18:15: Message edited by: L'organist ]
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
L'organist mentions chips, but you ought to know that in Newport the favourite accompaniment to curry is "arf'n'arf", ie rice and chips. They won't go without their chips even with a curry! Cheesy chips with gravy is popular too (a little like Poutine, the Canadian 'delicacy').
We have many "Valley Vegetarians", who don't eat meat, but subsist on beer & chips.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
He took a pizza order to one house to be greeted by the largest and most obese woman he'd ever seen in his life. She'd ordered everything, an immense pizza, chips, side-orders, relish, you name it ...
As he handed over her food order she asked for her Coke. My brother reached into his delivery bag and drew out a bottle for her.
'Diet Coke!' she bellowed. 'I ordered Diet Coke, I en' 'avin' it if it en' Diet Coke ...'
That's funny, why exactly? Because her beverage of choice has the word "diet," in it? If she was having her meal with tea would it have been better or is it that she should have had a drink that was relatively as high calorie as her meal such as a beer?
Doctors frequently advise people with weight problems to try not to drink any calories as that is often how unconscious calories slip in. Sounds to me like she was trying, or had tried in the past often enough, to have developed a taste for a calorie free soda.
Of course there's also the possibility that the chips and pizza were for her family or that she only planned to have one slice along with a salad. The poor lady probably never knew she was ordering a sneering side dish of judgment along with her dinner.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
I'm watching this programme too. I have the impression that although it's set in Wales the statistics apply to the rest of the UK - about two thirds of all adults being either overweight or obese.
It's certainly a large number and it costs a huge amount of money in medical treatment and also in support for those whose obesity makes them unable to work or care for themselves.
The first programme featured a 40st woman who is completely incapacitated and reliant on her husband and on two carers who come six days a week to wash her and give her husband a break. He spends his days researching equipment and services to help his wife. So far no-one has questioned what these seriously disabled people are eating. One person commented that so many children are overweight that it is now seen as healthy weight with only the seriously obse being seen as having a problem.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Diet Coke and Coke taste different. Once you're used to the taste of Diet Coke, the ordinary stuff tastes wrong.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Yes, I prefer the taste of diet drinks to full-sugar drinks. Full-sugar drinks taste like drinking syrup to me.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
They taste like drinking syrup to me, too, and in many cases you actually are pretty much drinking corn syrup with a few flavorings added.
I once ordered a diet cola along with a crab Alfredo dinner in a Red Lobster and then watched the waiter roll his eyes and smirk. He probably should have lost his tip but the fudge overboard dessert mellowed me.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Diet Coke and Coke taste different. Once you're used to the taste of Diet Coke, the ordinary stuff tastes wrong.
Both are full of chemicals which can't possibly be good for a body.
I haven't had a coke for ten years and don't miss it at all.
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Diet Coke and Coke taste different. Once you're used to the taste of Diet Coke, the ordinary stuff tastes wrong.
If you need energy not refreshment the ordinary stuff is better, it removes the desire for coffee + it doesn't have aspartame which has been given the all clear by Govt. agencies, though others have criticised the tests.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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