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» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Mobile (cell) phone etiquette when with live people (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Mobile (cell) phone etiquette when with live people
Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Getting your own back on having to sit through pointless meetings by using a mobile telephone during them, only works because it is unacceptable to talk to or text someone else on one's mobile one while someone present wants your attention. If that wasn't bad manners, you wouldn't be being subversive by doing it.

There are too many pointless meetings and even worthwhile ones go on too long. There are also too many managers who think one way of showing your power and greater importance is to make sure others have to waste their time dancing attendance on you. I don't think (I hope) any of us disagree with either of those sentences.

So in scale of descending awfulness, can we agree? :-

1. Boss making or receiving telephone calls during meeting and expecting everyone else to sit around doing nothing while he or she does so.

2. Making or receiving a call on a mobile telephone while in a personal interface with a real person - unless that call is directly facilitating what the interface is about.

3. Making or receiving a call on a mobile telephone while in a meeting where you need to be attending to that part of the meeting.

4. Making or receiving a call on a mobile telephone while in a meeting where what is being discussed has little relevance for you, but you've got to be there either because compulsory presentism requires you, or you're having to hang around waiting for something that relates to you to be dealt with.

Would split 2 into a parallel scale, with the lowest equivalent around 5.
5. E.g at our weekly team meetings, I damn well want them (above me) to answer the phone because it's their job. The meetings designed to help them do it better, not stop them. (weak training would come under the same bracket).

And in one-one if it's quick internal calls can save vast amounts of time searching/being indecisive (we could also do with being better at organising), I know that on the other end of the phone and can apply theory of mind when not on the phone.

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
How on earth did the world keep turning when people weren't able to be called out of any meeting by an importunate phone call? Surely back in those benighted days, there were emergencies that would have benefitted from the immediate attention of people in meetings? And yet, somehow, barring the occasional trauma victim, few people died because other people couldn't be dragged out of meetings on urgent business.

One reason is that things have changed round the phone. One work colleague talks about in the olden days you had months to do a job we're now expected to get in an afternoon.
Most of our clients were then local, now most of them are not.
On the whole that's a good thing, but it means you can't leave your post a day and come back to it.

I have never been to an all-day meeting. May this glad state of affairs never change.

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Vulpior

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Vulpior:
<Snip>

The clients I am with are happy with that and understand that could be them on the other end of the phone.

Are they? Or are they just being politer than you are?
No, they know that it's the nature of the work. We're a small business supporting IT systems. "I'm with another client; is your system down? Can a colleague help? When do you need me to call back by?"

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ExclamationMark
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
[QUOTE]Depends on the meeting.

If i am counselling someone, the phone is off.


See, you can do it when it suits YOU.

As to leaving the phone on as an act of rebellion, then I suppose you didn't mind your pupils leaving it on - and answering it - when you taught? Surely the biggest act of rebellion would be not to turn up and/or protest to the relevant people - what you're doing is pretty childish and will make no point whatsoever.

I'm like a number of people on this thread. In any meeting I chair/lead - all phones are off. That said, I only have meetings that are necessary and prune agendas to keep them short - it's true as some have said that there are too many meetings and too many that meander on too long. Try putting timings next to agenda items!

I also will ask those who have an input for one or two items to comne at a certain time, to minimise their loss of time and to ensure that they don't have to listen to a lot of things that they aren't involved in. It wouldn't be the first time that I've invited someone to leave a meeting once their contribution/report was over - previously they'd wasted over an hour a week sitting around. Didn't go down too well.

On an one to one, if someone answers their phone when I'm speaking to them, I'll generally think it's pretty rude.

[ 13. May 2013, 06:55: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]

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Barnabas62
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I think it is OK at a meeting to say in advance that you're leaving your phone on (silent mode, vibrate only) if you're attending a meeting while a very urgent business or personal call is pending.

In the days before mobile phones, I can remember a couple of occasions when I or other colleagues have been called out of a meeting by a colleague or a secretary to deal with something which could not wait. And some things really cannot wait. And the fact that they may happen may be known in advance, yet not rule out attendance at a meeting. So using a mobile phone to give that sort of signal seems in order to me; no different in principle to the emergency interrupt by a third party.

We've had this happen at church for folks who are carers of the chronically ill. The interrupt doesn't seem at all inappropriate to me under those circumstances, when the alternative is that the carer may not be able to get to church at all.

Mobile phones simply provide alternative means of getting a genuine emergency signal. That can be useful.

Of course that can be abused, either by caller or receiver, but it is the abuse which is the bad behaviour, not the option of using the technology.

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Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
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Seems to be a confusion on this thread on what is 'off' and what is 'using' too.

Having your phone on silent is not the phone being switched off. Checking your email, whilst - for example - the whole meeting decides on the venue of the next meeting (which happens to be when you're on leave) is not disruptive.

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
In any meeting I chair/lead - all phones are off. [..]
I also will ask those who have an input for one or two items to comne at a certain time, to minimise their loss of time and to ensure that they don't have to listen to a lot of things that they aren't involved in.

Which is all fine and sensible, but not always possible. In the kind of meeting where I am only half-present, listening out for the discussion to take a particular direction or two, the point is that nobody knows whether I'll have to "listen to a lot of things that I'm not involved in" because they don't know whether the things they are trying to do are going to cause a problem. That's why I'm at the meeting. If I knew that the person calling the meeting understood what was relevant for me, I probably wouldn't need to show up.

Like lilBuddha has said above, it's context-dependent. Not all meetings are the same.

The real answer is "If you should be paying all your attention to something, you shouldn't be doing something else at the same time," and this covers answering email in meetings, reading books at the dinner table, or looking at the interesting poster on the wall while your friend is droning on about his problems.

Mobile telephones are not a special case.

(And yes, of course, in an emergency, you excuse yourself from the gathering and take the call. Again, emergency is context-dependent. Internal meetings can be interrupted or preempted by any more important/urgent need of the organization. Meetings with external parties should be interrupted less often, and within these categories, some meetings are more important than others.

There are plenty of cases where it's just not appropriate to interrupt a meeting at all, unless the building is on fire. Those just aren't the kind of meetings that I have.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:


Mobile phones simply provide alternative means of getting a genuine emergency signal. That can be useful.

Of course that can be abused, either by caller or receiver, but it is the abuse which is the bad behaviour, not the option of using the technology.

This point has been made repeatedly here, there's no one disputing it (see earlier comment re: why meetings are so long & tedious). The problem is, what you're describing should, by definition, not be the norm. Whereas what we're seeing here is that cell interruptions have become the norm. Clearly not all those interruptions are emergencies.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Checking your email, whilst - for example - the whole meeting decides on the venue of the next meeting (which happens to be when you're on leave) is not disruptive.

If it's the last item on the agenda, probably won't be disruptive, but will be perceived as rude, and rightfully so IMHO. You're making a rather obvious-- and rude-- comment about whoever is speaking or leading the discussion. Even more so, if it's not the last item on the agenda, it WILL be disruptive, for the reasons mentioned above. You WILL miss part of the discussion that follows, whether you realize it or not. Things will have to be repeated, to the chagrin of those listening the first time. So because you couldn't give up 5 min. of your time while, say, 15 people discussed something irrelevant to you, you'll end up wasting 5 min. of time multiplied by the 15 people who have to wait while we bring you up to speed.

Of course, you're going to insist you don't miss anything, that you can multi-task and know the minute the topic shifts to something of interest. And you really, really believe it. You have absolutely no clue that important things were said while you were lost. But those of us who don't text/ tweet/ check email during meetings WILL be aware of what just happened, and, whether they say anything or not, will feel irritated by it-- because what you've just said is that 5 minutes of your time is more important than 5 min. of everyone else's time.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
In the kind of meeting where I am only half-present, listening out for the discussion to take a particular direction or two, the point is that nobody knows whether I'll have to "listen to a lot of things that I'm not involved in" because they don't know whether the things they are trying to do are going to cause a problem. That's why I'm at the meeting. If I knew that the person calling the meeting understood what was relevant for me, I probably wouldn't need to show up.

Like lilBuddha has said above, it's context-dependent. Not all meetings are the same.

Again, no one's disputing that.

The earlier suggestion of having timed agenda items, if possible, is a better solution.

Another alternative when that's not possible, is to make an apologetic excuse at the beginning of the meeting-- pleading press of work, indicate that you're going to try to get some things done during the meeting, but will be there if my input is needed. And please sit in back.

Yes, it is context dependent. People get that. But acknowledging the situation-- and that these are human interactions-- is important.

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:


Mobile phones simply provide alternative means of getting a genuine emergency signal. That can be useful.

Of course that can be abused, either by caller or receiver, but it is the abuse which is the bad behaviour, not the option of using the technology.

The problem is, what you're describing should, by definition, not be the norm. Whereas what we're seeing here is that cell interruptions have become the norm.
While I agree, and I certainly operate the "exception, not norm" rule at the (very few) meetings I either chair or faciliate these days, it is in the end a matter for the Chair of any meeting. It's possible to lay down criteria, have "standing orders" for any meeting you chair. It's possible to make policy that recognises the norm and the exceptions and it's possible for the Chair of a meeting to make that known and do things to impress on folks that's the way of things.

For less formal meetings, I don't think anyone has a chance of enforcing any such standards. In such settings these days, personally I've accepted that the world has changed. However, quite a good tactic is to quickly give permission whether the person has asked for it or not! People get the idea that a mobile phone interrupt is permissible by agreement, but a bit rude if assumed to be OK. I've found that works quite well with most people.

[ 13. May 2013, 17:23: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Doublethink.
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Frankly, I think your meetings sound as if they have a level of organisational support we are unable to meet due to being chronically understaffed.

The ability to be unreachable, assumes that there is a back-up option if you are unreachable. Never mind meetings, I have had me people contact me at home when I am off sick about clinical crises because we have no cover.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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