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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Does personality play a part in theological positions and praxis?
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
I have spent the last four years grappling with this question. I have taken myself on a scary journey where I have questioned a lot of what I used to believe and how I might best express it as regards acts of worship and actions of worship. Some of my friends believe I have sold out in some senses. But the more I think about it the more I am concluding that personality plays a considerable part it all. For clarity's sake, here is an example of what I mean. I spent many years in charismatic circles and struggled with some of the language and behaviour and especially the noise and extroverted style. I was able to rise to the occasion but ended up exhausted. I believed and still do that God reveals himself and speaks too but I cringe at certain styles of expressing these things. The penny dropped for me at a friend's wedding at a fairly high church. We had been asked to pray for the couple and the priest asked that our prayers be written out rather than extempore but that we should feel free to share "prayer messages" within those prayers. I loved that idea so much that I asked myself why. I realised that it fitted well with my personalty: to think deeply before speaking, to express emotion carefully, to not be too noisy. When I think of my friends who are in much more charismatic settings I can see that for many of them it suits their personalities.
What say you, Shipmates? Am I bonkers or am I onto something?
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Cedd
Shipmate
# 8436
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Posted
I absolutely think that you are onto something...on the Myers Briggs scale I am a strongly expressed introvert and I love contemplative worship where I don't have to interact with anyone other than God. My more extrovert friends love jumping around in worship. I guess it is a blessing that God allows us to worship him in so many ways, provided we are not made to feel deficient for seeking the way that suits us best.
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Cedd
Churchmanship: This week I am mostly an evangelical, catholic, orthodox with both liberal and illiberal tendancies. Terms and conditions apply.
Posts: 377 | From: England | Registered: Sep 2004
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Emily Windsor-Cragg
Shipmate
# 17687
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Posted
You sure ARE on to something there, the preference for reflection over spontaneity.
I also decided [when I was six years old] that God has to be Personal and that He probably has preferences.
I haven't seen any reason to doubt my initial impression of God [Personal] since that time.
Emily
Posts: 326 | From: California | Registered: May 2013
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I think you are definitely onto something. I am a fairly extreme introvert, and spent a lot of my youth, wrestling with this, and trying to fight against it, as various people told me that introversion was weird, wimpish, faint-hearted, and so forth.
However, a bright day dawned, when I resolved to be that introverted person, and discovered a whole new country. Yes, contemplation, meditation, and such like, became the areas I loved, and noise and shouting, I shunned.
You can think of the still small voice, in the very quiet of your room, and your own heart, and not in the noise of the street and market place.
In relation to church matters - do what seems comfortable.
By the way, your signature is very nice - I know a similar one - better to relate, than be correct.
[ 22. May 2013, 18:08: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
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Posted
You're not bonkers at all, MrsBeaky. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) . An excellent question.
I guess I've been a 'fringe' charismatic all these years, really. I do find a lot of the worship styles favoured by charismatics genuinely helpful - I'm a very strong introvert who is genuinely moved by sincerely exuberant worship. And charismatic worship is not always noisy - it can almost be contemplative.
I have no time for people endorsing weird stuff - I would repudiate a lot of the bizarre fluff from the 'Toronto Blessing'.
As I've said before, worship has different landscapes. And must be God-focused ... not about us worshipping the experience of worship, which can be a snare in charismatic worship.
This is where the wisdom of ancient traditions in prayer come in.
And whilst I do not despise New Wine or Spring Harvest, I am just as likely to go on a silent or Ignatian retreat ... and probably find it a deeper experience in which one does serious business with God.
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cedd:
I absolutely think that you are onto something...on the Myers Briggs scale I am a strongly expressed introvert and I love contemplative worship where I don't have to interact with anyone other than God. My more extrovert friends love jumping around in worship. I guess it is a blessing that God allows us to worship him in so many ways, provided we are not made to feel deficient for seeking the way that suits us best.
I found the Myers Briggs very helpful in understanding why I react as I do to certain other people. It helped me to understand our differences in perspective.
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Still missing the gator
Posts: 2542 | From: LaLa Land | Registered: Apr 2006
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
You are not alone in doing this sort of thinking. The following article not only gives a brief overview but also gives books written on the topic. I finally found a quiz that is not Myer-Briggs based called Sacred Pathways that looks at 9 different elements of worship. It is self report and pretty easy to work which question is which although you do not get the answer to the end.
However remember two things, a worship personality can differ from an everyday one. Secondly your tradition also shapes your preference. I scored fairly highly as a caregiver but I know at least some of that was because care-giving has always been held up highly at church.
Intriguingly it seems to come from this book and a description on this blog (the 10th is added) and there is study guide which is fairly typical Evangelical Study Guide, so have a good look at that before you decide whether to buy the book as it will tell you most of what is in it.
Jengie
[ 22. May 2013, 19:17: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Being an INFJ, or an emotion-led introvert, I definitely think you're onto something. Liberal Anglo-Catholicism seems to be a very good fit for me - contemplative rather than exuberant, but with very emotional elements too (pilgrimages, honouring Our Lady and the Saints etc all emotion-based).
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
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Posted
Assuming that your praxis is based on what you like, that is your choice of church is based on personal preferences, then it's almost stating the obvious to say that your personality plays a part, because what you like is part of your personality.
But if you mean do personality types map to worship styles, I would say no ( and not only because I don't think there are personality types in the Myers Briggs sort of sense ). I like both exuberant charismatic worship and high church worship with clouds of incense. Would anyone like to tell me what sort of personality I have ? Or what the possible sorts of personality I could have are if you think it's a many to one relationship.
That might sound a bit silly, but it makes as much sense, or as little, to traverse the relationship in one direction as in the other.
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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
Assuming that your praxis is based on what you like, that is your choice of church is based on personal preferences, then it's almost stating the obvious to say that your personality plays a part, because what you like is part of your personality.
But if you mean do personality types map to worship styles, I would say no ( and not only because I don't think there are personality types in the Myers Briggs sort of sense ). I like both exuberant charismatic worship and high church worship with clouds of incense. Would anyone like to tell me what sort of personality I have ? Or what the possible sorts of personality I could have are if you think it's a many to one relationship.
That might sound a bit silly, but it makes as much sense, or as little, to traverse the relationship in one direction as in the other.
I think charismatic and high church worship are not dissimilar though - hence charismatic Catholics! There would be more disconnect between you enjoying both charismatic and very dry cessationist churches.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
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Posted
I don't think there is necessarily a disconnect between the worship styles I like, I just wanted to see if anyone would like to use them to predict what sort of person I am.
There's the same amount of logic in going from preferred worship style to personality as there is in going from personality to preferred worship style.
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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
I believe we are called to be the image of Christ. And Christ was the perfect human. That doesn't mean we are all to become clones, but to achieve the same ideal of ideal perfection. I'll become a perfect Patdys and you a perfect MrsBeaky. And our personalities will be an expression of that. I'd like to think I'll master the perfect snark, but sadly that is probably a character flaw.
The perfect human? Simple, my hobby horse of relational theology. Love The Lord your God etc and neighbour as yourself.
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I think charismatic and high church worship are not dissimilar though - hence charismatic Catholics! There would be more disconnect between you enjoying both charismatic and very dry cessationist churches.
Not so much Charismatic and High as Pentecostal and High.
In fact there is a similarity in the way they have set up churches in poor working class areas.
the praxis of the Charismatics is different, they are more likely to deal with problems of poverty by political action rather than by planting churches in poor areas. (I find these two approaches complimentary rather than exclusive, but that's another thread.)
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
Yes.
All the people with the good personality characteristics are also the ones who hold the same theology as me. The rest of you depraved sinners are also hopeless heretics. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I HOPE you're bonkers AND you definitely are on to something Mrs Beaky. I hope so because I distrust the sane and I AM bonkers and am on to the same emergent thing.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Thanks Everyone for your insightful and sometimes hilarious comments so far. I am out in the Styx in rural Kenya till Saturday with dodgy internet so won't be able to respond properly till then but this is great so don't think I'm ignoring you!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
On the Myers Briggs thread, I mentioned that I'd attended a rather good weekend course which included lots of shared exercises intended to bring out various features of personality diversity. It took place at the Waverley Abbey Centre, so it had Christian organisation, though it was open to all comers.
One of the most interesting things that happened was that two subgroups (one extravert, the other introvert preferences) were asked to prepare acts corporate worship, each lasting about 15-20 minutes.
Out of many illuminating events that weekend, I think this one was near the top. The contrasts were quite remarkable and led to a long open discussion. There were a number of church minister there as well as a number of people involved in the musical worship in their local congregations. Without exception, all recognised the importance of the exercise and the challenges it presented to those with responsibility for organising church services.
My wife and I were on the course together; she was in the introvert subgroup, I was in the extravert subgroup. The experience had a profound effect on both of us and the way we went about the responsibilities we had in our local congregation.
[ 23. May 2013, 07:46: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Understanding these connections are so important for a lot of reasons. In addition to what's already been mentioned, I'd add two more:
1. Learning to be gracious toward other worship styles/music styles by recognizing those personality differences
2. Encouraging one another to push themselves occasionally to worship in ways that are counter to our personality type. The discomfort we feel can be one of the ways we grow.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Not bonkers at all! I personally get far more out of a quiet, reflective, Taizé or Celtic-style service than I do out of the more raucous (to my hearing at least) charismatic 'worshiptainment'-style services.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
There have been several books written with the same basic premise - two I've read recently are 'Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking' by
Susan Cain, and 'Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture' by Adam S. McHugh.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
There have been several books written with the same basic premise - two I've read recently are 'Quiet: The power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking' by
Susan Cain, and 'Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture' by Adam S. McHugh.
I second McHugh. Just finished reading it. It confirmed my suspicions rather than making dramatic revelations but could be handy to eplain to extroverts why most of church does not work for introverts.
[ 23. May 2013, 18:22: Message edited by: The Midge ]
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
I think you're completely right. A friend at Bible college studied a module on Myers-Briggs types and faith, and he showed us his notes. They listed the four Myers-Briggs axes and the kinds of worship and theology and so on people at each end of them feel comfortable with, and how they relate to God.
At the time my husband and I were at a very charismatic church and not feeling very at home with many aspects of it. We looked at the notes on how Thinking and Feeling Christians relate to God, and the first column was "that's me... that's me... that's me..." and the second column was "that's my church... that's my church... that's my church." It was a revelation. It helped us realise that we weren't wrong and they weren't wrong, it was just a difference in personality styles, and the way they did things was helpful to a lot of people, just not to us.
We're now happier at a more cerebral con-evo church (with hymns with content! rather than just repeating the same four words over and over!) and to be fair to the leaders of the old church, they were very understanding and non-judgemental about our decision.
OTOH (and our Bible college friend's notes said this too) we need to be aware that God might also be trying to stretch and grow us in the styles opposite to our natural inclinations, and so not be completely closed to them.
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Talitha:
OTOH (and our Bible college friend's notes said this too) we need to be aware that God might also be trying to stretch and grow us in the styles opposite to our natural inclinations, and so not be completely closed to them.
This is probably the most important point in your good post.
Has your firend posted his notes any where?
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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Ancient Mariner
Sip the ship
# 4
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Posted
You're not just onto something, MrsBeaky. I believe it to be at the very heart of everything we believe. Time for a theology of personality?
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Ship of Fools' first novel, Rattles & Rosettes, is the tale of two football (soccer) fans: 16-year-old Tom in 1914 and Dan in 2010. More at www.rattlesandrosettes.com
Posts: 2582 | From: St Helens (near Liverpool) UK | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
It's another kind of prejudice frontier, AM. Interesting if you look at faith statements re diversity; they all seem to major on race, or nationality, or gender, which is fine.
But there is a kind of invisible discrimination re personality. And I also liked this:
quote:
we need to be aware that God might also be trying to stretch and grow us in the styles opposite to our natural inclinations, and so not be completely closed to them.
The personal journey from preference to prejudice can be a short one. Rigid insistence that others must cater tolerantly for our clear preferences can easily overlook all those times when our rigidity can itself be a complete pain in the ass to others. "Go with the flow" folks tend to put a lot of pressure on those who prefer order, and vice versa, when we work together in teams. The J/P conflict in operation.
"Oh stop making a fuss, you don't need to worry about that, certainly not right now!"
"Grrr. I'm concerned for a very good reason which you just don't want to think about. We need a DECISION, damn it!"
etc.
[ 24. May 2013, 09:04: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
quote:
Has your firend posted his notes any where?
He gave us a scanned copy of them, but I think there would be copyright issues if I put it up somewhere public and linked to it. Sorry. I think I'd be allowed to email it to people individually, BICBW.
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
I'm an introvert and I appreciate quiet, reflective services but for some reason Taize services drive me nuts. It's sort of equivalent to hearing the sound of fingernails being scratched down a blackboard.
I've been to 3, which probably isn't much of a sample, but I couldn't force myself to try more.
I respond better to silence with or without images.
Huia - closet Quaker
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Talitha:
quote:
Has your firend posted his notes any where?
He gave us a scanned copy of them, but I think there would be copyright issues if I put it up somewhere public and linked to it. Sorry. I think I'd be allowed to email it to people individually, BICBW.
Very wise. I was just wondering if they had blogged them or something. Thanks anyway.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Talitha:
I think you're completely right. A friend at Bible college studied a module on Myers-Briggs types and faith, and he showed us his notes. They listed the four Myers-Briggs axes and the kinds of worship and theology and so on people at each end of them feel comfortable with, and how they relate to God.
Do you still have them? I'm more than a little sceptical of MB but I'd be intrigued to know what they think should work for me.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
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Posted
I hope that you only mean what they think might work for you rather than what should. Even if one thinks that "personality types" are a good predictor of anything ( which I don't ), they are certainly not needed to justify your preferred style of worship. You are quite entitled to like whatever you like, whether other people who like it have anything else in common with you or not.
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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
Posts: 2210 | From: london | Registered: Aug 2006
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
I hope that you only mean what they think might work for you rather than what should. Even if one thinks that "personality types" are a good predictor of anything ( which I don't ), they are certainly not needed to justify your preferred style of worship. You are quite entitled to like whatever you like, whether other people who like it have anything else in common with you or not.
Big conference worship with megawat band, thousands of people waving their hands in the air and rushing up to the front for the altar call = extrovert. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Silent retreat in the mountains without any company except for a one to one with a spirtual director doing lectio divina = introvert ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
There is a sliding scale between the two extremes.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
I hope that you only mean what they think might work for you rather than what should. Even if one thinks that "personality types" are a good predictor of anything ( which I don't ), they are certainly not needed to justify your preferred style of worship. You are quite entitled to like whatever you like, whether other people who like it have anything else in common with you or not.
I was hoping for some tips, on account of not really being sure what does work for me. I know what doesn't ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Of late I've found some things that work better than a lot of other things, but I'd be interested in experimenting more. Hence wondering what might be expected.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
I hope that you only mean what they think might work for you rather than what should. Even if one thinks that "personality types" are a good predictor of anything ( which I don't ), they are certainly not needed to justify your preferred style of worship. You are quite entitled to like whatever you like, whether other people who like it have anything else in common with you or not.
I was hoping for some tips, on account of not really being sure what does work for me. I know what doesn't
Of late I've found some things that work better than a lot of other things, but I'd be interested in experimenting more. Hence wondering what might be expected.
Have you tried giving up religion? I have a few friends who are theists, but can't stand religion, so it works for them. Admittedly, they do do meditation/contemplation stuff, but that is without dogma or doctrine.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Yeah, but I don't really find the meditation wooy-woo spirituality stuff really does much for me either, so it was pretty much like giving up on the idea of God.
I quite like what we do down our church, but it's still a work in development so it's interesting to wonder what else is possible.
[ 24. May 2013, 15:50: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Just a point, that you can do meditation without woo or spiritual stuff. My group is based on Zen, so we have no dogma or beliefs, except I suppose that we enjoy it.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Question: do the varying worship service types also vary theologies? (Within the same tradition, of course)
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KLB, The Midge mentions a sliding scale. Could your issue be that you do not occupy one position on that scale, but rather several? Or that you shift? This could tie to your feelings towards the MB test as well. There is not a hole for every peg.
[ 24. May 2013, 16:07: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
The Midge: Big conference worship with megawat band, thousands of people waving their hands in the air and rushing up to the front for the altar call = extrovert.
Silent retreat in the mountains without any company except for a one to one with a spirtual director doing lectio divina = introvert
I must be the exception then.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Hello, I’m back from the Kenyan interior and very much enjoying reading these posts. I now have more questions to ponder and a couple of observations to make. I’ve had quite a lot of experience of various personality assessment models including MB and my favourite by far is Bioenergetics mainly because the facilitator we had was really, really good. The thing he emphasised was much the same as
quote:
originally posted by Patdys
I'll become a perfect Patdys and you a perfect MrsBeaky.
Except our trainer talked about aspiring to be the best and highest functioning version of your personality and he also emphasised that the model was only a tool to help people develop as individuals and teams. In fact it was his workshop that started me on this journey as I began to realise that I was trying to be something I wasn’t in order to fit in and function in a leadership role within my church. I agree that the personality indicators have their limits but I also think they can be a useful diagnostic tool when I feel the life draining out of me!
I fully accept the challenge of being willing to move out of my preferences as a possibility of growth but long term it appears to be life-stifling rather than life-giving for me.
Also, I think most of the discussion so far has been understandably focussed on worship style preferences.
I’m still wondering if there is a correlation between theology and personality.
Example: having married into the evangelical world which morphed into the charismatic, I spent years enjoying some things (like the emphasis on serving the community) but mourning the loss of others especially the amazingly powerful spiritual experience of the Eucharist. My theology on that one which dated from childhood never left me and I hated the way we “did” communion. It was empty for me. I also missed the marking of significant days in the church calendar, pilgrimages etc. So I'm now very happily settled (when in the UK) at our Cathedral and local parish.
Finally (this post is getting too long) thank you all for your personally encouraging comments and I'm happy to let you know that I'm an ISFJ!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Thank you Mrs B. I'm not sure about your point about being the best at being you; I suppose I have been heavily influenced here by Zen, where the best is just this, and right now, I am perfectly quetzalcoatl. I'm not sure whether that's inimical to Christian thinking or not, but then I don't have to decide that!
[ 24. May 2013, 17:04: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Thanks Quetzalcoatl
Interesting point. As I see it, the challenge of the aspiration inherent in Christianity is the conflict that it brings. Such conflict can either paralyse us with guilt or spur us to growth or perhaps a mixture of the two.
I personally think it is better for those around me when I am able to be the high functioning version of me(something the trainer I mentioned pointed out to me.) So, for example in a team context I have learned to point out before it actually happens that I am going to get upset if the goal posts are suddenly moved thus opening a dialogue and saving myself and others from a passive-aggressive reaction!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yes, I think there are horizontal and vertical aspects of life. I mean that if I think in relation to time, then yes, I have become a 'better' person; however, right now (the vertical axis), I am perfectly myself. Interestingly, some New Age Christians argue that these two axes form a cross, and this cross is one we have to pick up. I'm not sure if this idea has ever been developed in more mainstream thinking, but I quite like it.
I was just wondering what Buddhists would say - that there is no time, possibly. No, I've just remembered a classic Buddhist saying - it's true to say that there is time, and there isn't. Great stuff.
This is just my weird personality coming out.
[ 25. May 2013, 09:03: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
I think it does. I am not sure about the M-B thing, but it does seem to provide a rough and ready guide when it comes to people's spiritual preferences.
The guy who did the M-B thing with us when we were going through the weeding procedure was not at all surprised at my combination of ISTJ/ESTJ and mild Anglo-Catholicism. He said it fits together and then proceeded to explain why.
Basically, it come down to the fact that I am the sort of person who is cautious, change adverse and tends to occupy well thought out positions on issues. Emotion does not have a big role to play in my decision making process unless I am pushed into corner. In worship I will tend to prefer those environment where emotion is channelled and controlled, because I like mystery, order and restraint.
He also commented that the other combination that would work for my personality type would be mild conservative Evangelicalism, but as theologically I focussed on the incarnation not the atonement I would probably remain on the catholic end of the spectrum. In addition to the M-B profiles he was also using what he knew of our theological outlooks.
Interestingly, for a diocese that seemed to prefer the outgoing and emotional personalities, he did not see this as a negative thing. I did get warned against being overly rigid and impatient of intuitive and preception-led types who, to my mind, will always tend to dither around.
Although I remain firmly skeptical of the M-B methodology it did tend to have me more or less pegged when it came to theological and liturgical preferences.
PD
[ 25. May 2013, 14:24: Message edited by: PD ]
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My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
The studies I've come across suggest that most British clergy are closer to being introverts that extroverts, at least in the CofE and in the Methodist Churches. The number of introverts in the general population is said to be a lot lower, which indicates a potential point of tension. Church leaders will be one thing, the population something else, and congregations will be in the middle, pulling in sometimes in one direction and sometimes in another. It could be that charismatic churches are becoming stronger because they allow for more extrovert personalities to find a place in church.
I'm an introvert, but one of the reasons why I like going to church is because it takes me out of myself. Yes, sharing the peace can feel a bit awkward, but I approve of it because it offers the chance of human interaction and warmth in a spiritual context. After all, if I'm only interested interacting with God I can just stay in my bedroom! But each to his own.
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Whilst accepting that poor old MB is not everyone's cup of tea, the consensus thus far (with a couple of notable exceptions!) would appear to be that personality does play a part in our theological perspectives and praxis.
However, I can't help feeling that there is a lot of learning still to be done on this one. Here in Kenya we are working with the Anglican church and have spent limited amounts of time with our fellow mission partners from other traditions but it has been enough time for me to pick up that there are the possibly inevitable challenges of doctrinal differences. And quite frankly, if one more person tries to "enlighten" me without asking about/ knowing my background I may well scream or do something worse....
Is it theology or personality that makes some people so convinced of their own rectitude?!
Thanks Shipmates for not being like that...at least not on this thread at any rate!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
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Posted
quote:
MrsBeaky: And quite frankly, if one more person tries to "enlighten" me without asking about/ knowing my background I may well scream or do something worse....
Is this person why tries to 'enlighten' you African? I know that I'm stereotyping here, but my experience in Africa is that discussions about theology aren't always as big as they appear, and just tend to fade away if you invite them for dinner at your house / inquire about their family, etc.
Coming back to the introvert/extrovert discussion: I'm an extrovert, but I hate crowds. And I'm not sure if that is a contradiction.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Mrs Beaky
Working in Kenya, I would have thought you'd also be reflecting on how cultural as well as personality difference influence theology. (Of course, culture and personality impact on each other and aren't discreet entities.)
My impression is that Anglican worship in Africa is much more restrained and formal than it might be in the UK, perhaps because African societies are dominated by more effusive forms of religious presence against which the Anglicans there have to distinguish themselves. But because these are more religious, conservative societies, African Anglicanism can't afford to relax into the more liberal Western theological positions because to do so would put it at a disadvantage compared with the other competing churches. In other words, cultural context is also a component in one's theology. Is there any truth in these impressions and assumptions, according to your experience?
Perhaps the argument about personalities only works in cultures where individual choice and preferences are prioritised.
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Coming back to the introvert/extrovert discussion: I'm an extrovert, but I hate crowds. And I'm not sure if that is a contradiction.
Me too!
I also hate noise.
I'm an extrovert but I need time for quiet (processing time) every day - and I love silence in worship.
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Sorry for lack of clarity, the "enlightening" doctrinally/ theologically is solely at the hands of mission partners from other parts of the world. My Kenyan friends and colleagues are mainly great in this respect.
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by svitlanaV2 In other words, cultural context is also a component in one's theology. Is there any truth in these impressions and assumptions, according to your experience?
Yes, you are absolutely right and I think your observations about Anglicanism here and the struggle it faces are very interesting too and may well be right.
The Anglican church here is fairly conservative Evangelical and so lacks the breadth of expression we'd be familiar with in say the UK. My frustration is not with that but as stated in my post above with others from other parts of the world who are applying their theological lens to the fact that I'm even an Anglican. Hence my mini rant!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
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