homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Is the Corporate Media Telling Us What is True? (Page 2)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Is the Corporate Media Telling Us What is True?
Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561

 - Posted      Profile for Lothiriel   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Emily Windsor-Cragg:

When my little baby turned up with PKU at the age of 7 months, I delved into food tables and created a diet for him (never mind the Official formula!) that spared phenylalanine and provided sufficient protein for his needs.

I wrote the diet up as a class project in one class where the professor was a high-ranked member of the Dietary Officialdom. I SAVED MY BOY'S INTELLECT, because PKU results in massive retardation and ungovernable behavior. THAT BOY graduated from West Point and is now a Captain in the USArmy at the age of 27. So, the diet worked.

THAT PROFESSOR, obsessed as she was with dogma and doctrine, gave me a "C grade" on my paper, which was "barely passing," but she awarded "A grades" to other students who were more compliant with her dogma.


There's always the possibility that the paper was not written well enough to merit an "A", despite the apparent success of the diet itself. You weren't being graded on saving your son, but on how you presented your work.

--------------------
If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery

my blog

Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
HCH
Shipmate
# 14313

 - Posted      Profile for HCH   Email HCH   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've looked at quite a bit of this thread, and I can't make much sense out of it.

I will add one observation: Plenty of what we know about Mars predates the existence of NASA and has been verified many times by many different observers. In particular, Mars does not have much atmosphere, and it should not have a blue sky. The color of the sky on Earth depends in large part on the thickness of the atmosphere. Mars should have a sky which is nearly black.

A second observation: Just about any picture you find online taken from the Hubble telescope (or a good many other sources) may well have been color-altered simply so it will be something we poor inadequate humans can see with our one-octave visible light range.

Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
What about your cousin?

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Emily--

If I may ask, what got you started on this path? You mentioned, on another thread IIRC, that you've been working on this since 2003. Did you have an experience or light-bulb moment that nudged you in this direction?

And why the particular emphasis on astronomy? As opposed to, say, corporate poisoning of the environment, inequities in health care, and government corruption?


Thanks.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Correct Em. It's 239,000 miles. As any smart 10 year old can follow. I mean, it's forgivable that the ancient Greeks were 8,000 miles out. Which ejits were 13,000 miles out the other way?

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765

 - Posted      Profile for Dave W.   Email Dave W.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Correct Em. It's 239,000 miles. As any smart 10 year old can follow. I mean, it's forgivable that the ancient Greeks were 8,000 miles out. Which ejits were 13,000 miles out the other way?

The distance from the earth to the moon is not constant; according to NASA, the mean perigee of the moon's orbit (the average distance at closest approach) is 363,300 km or 226,800 miles, but over the course of a year the earth-moon distance can vary from about 223000 mi to 254000 mi.

Of course, this has nothing to do with EW being "correct" - she thinks that the moon is only 50,000 miles away.

Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814

 - Posted      Profile for Galloping Granny   Email Galloping Granny   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I guess Emily came to the ship looking for some intelligent, educated, open-minded people to share her studies with; and that's exactly what she found.

GG

PS Don't the Illuminati come into all this somewhere?

--------------------
The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113

Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

 - Posted      Profile for ken     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
5,000 rather than 50,000 if it is really only 20 miles across.

That's less than the radius of the Earth so the Moon would be invisibly low in the sky quite often. Her hypothesis ought to be testable by making observations over a few nights with a couple of sticks and a watch.

And if it was true then either orbital mechanics is wrong (which would mean secondary school physics was wrong) or else the gravitational constant (G) and/or the mass of the earth (M) isn't what it says in the textbooks. Which, come to think of it, also means secondary school physics is wrong. And you can test that with a pendulum. And very helpfully there are quite a few Foucault's pendulums in public museums. If the period of one of them is what the textbook equations say it should be then we know what the acceleration due to gravity (g) is locally, and that gives you the ratio between the gravitational constant and the mass of the earth and from that you can work out the orbital period of a relatively small satellite at any given distance. And we know how long the Moon takes to go round the earth because we can see it. So, if it was only 20 miles across, we can work out how far away it has to be to take that long to orbit. And the sums aren't even hard.

And if we know how far away it is we can work out how big it is just by looking at it and measuring how wide it seems to be at, say, arms length, and multiplying.

Come on Emily, do the experiment! I dare you!

You can work out roughly how far away the moon is, and therefore roughly how big it is with a trip to a museum, a watch, a tape measure, and some high-school phsyics and grade-school arithmetic. Do the sums! You don't have to believe NASA or even look though a telescope. No cameras involved. You can see it with your own eyes.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765

 - Posted      Profile for Dave W.   Email Dave W.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
5,000 rather than 50,000 if it is really only 20 miles across.

That's less than the radius of the Earth so the Moon would be invisibly low in the sky quite often. Her hypothesis ought to be testable by making observations over a few nights with a couple of sticks and a watch.

And if it was true then either orbital mechanics is wrong (which would mean secondary school physics was wrong) or else the gravitational constant (G) and/or the mass of the earth (M) isn't what it says in the textbooks. Which, come to think of it, also means secondary school physics is wrong. And you can test that with a pendulum. And very helpfully there are quite a few Foucault's pendulums in public museums. If the period of one of them is what the textbook equations say it should be then we know what the acceleration due to gravity (g) is locally, and that gives you the ratio between the gravitational constant and the mass of the earth and from that you can work out the orbital period of a relatively small satellite at any given distance. And we know how long the Moon takes to go round the earth because we can see it. So, if it was only 20 miles across, we can work out how far away it has to be to take that long to orbit. And the sums aren't even hard.

And if we know how far away it is we can work out how big it is just by looking at it and measuring how wide it seems to be at, say, arms length, and multiplying.

Come on Emily, do the experiment! I dare you!

You can work out roughly how far away the moon is, and therefore roughly how big it is with a trip to a museum, a watch, a tape measure, and some high-school phsyics and grade-school arithmetic. Do the sums! You don't have to believe NASA or even look though a telescope. No cameras involved. You can see it with your own eyes.

You can show her numbers (10.8 mi diameter, 50,000 mi distance) are wrong even without the museum, watch, and physics - explanation here, observation report here.

And you don't need to know either the universal gravitational constant G or the mass of the earth to get the period of a 50,000 mi orbit - just knowing that gravity is 9.8 m/s^2 at the surface and the radius of the earth gives the period of a grazing orbit, and Kepler's 3rd law then tells you what it would be at 50,000 mi (2.8 days, as it happens.)

Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Thanks, Dave W. It seemed to me you did a very good job with the visual evidence the first time.

But Emily is clearly unconvinced.

As a side issue, I remember discussing a distressing situation with a member of the Eating Disoders Association re anorexia. A good friend was in agony over the life-threatening behaviour of one of her children and I was trying to understand what her daughter saw when she looked in the mirror. The EDA counsellor said something at the time which has stayed with me. "Anorexics seem to see what they want to see, I'm afraid, and just can't see what we can see. That's what makes helping them such a perplexing issue".

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

 - Posted      Profile for fletcher christian   Email fletcher christian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I hate to say this, but I think Emily is right on one thing - namely the tinting of Mars pics. I can't recall where I read it, but it was in a mag, and not a nutty mag either. It was an interview with someone who worked on the Rover project and they talked about the tinting of the pictures. there were a few complicated reasons to do with light that I didn't understand, but the essence of it was that people expected Mars to be red and a lot of the pictures were 'red' but also with a lot of very dull grey - so they stuck in a tint.

--------------------
'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Hawk

Semi-social raptor
# 14289

 - Posted      Profile for Hawk   Author's homepage   Email Hawk   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I don't know the science myself but reading a few articles tells me the processing of mars pictures to show 'true colour' is fraught with difficulties, even impossible with some images. To show the public what Mars would look like to a person standing on the surface necessarily requires some form of image manipulation simply because the cameras don't take 'true-colour' pictures. Sometimes this manipulation is more accurate than others.

This is because the scientific cameras used in space don't shoot pictures that represent colour, but just greyscale, using multiple colour filters and then using the data to create an artificial colour image that fits the greyscale data as accurately as possible. But this is fraught with problems of interpretation. This Bad Astronomy page seems to give a good overview of the problems.

Unfortunately amateurs who don't understand how the pictures were taken or processed, and don't understand the intricacies of space photography can easily misinterpret what they see. This page gives a quick explanation of one trick pseudo-scientists use when trying to invent buildings on Mars.

Quite an interesting subject. And I can understand a bit better now how some people get fooled by this process into seeing things that aren't really there.

--------------------
“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076

 - Posted      Profile for Gwai   Email Gwai   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It sounds like from this that Mars isn't as red as it looks, but that's not because NASA is playing silly buggers.

[crossposted with a more detailed post, alas]

[ 10. June 2013, 13:39: Message edited by: Gwai ]

--------------------
A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.


Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Then we're both right Dave W.
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

 - Posted      Profile for Eutychus   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
This Bad Astronomy page seems to give a good overview of the problems.

There goes my awe at seeing the Mars sky as blue. [Waterworks]

And it nicely summarises my problem with this thread. I think Emily's explanations are fruitcakey, but in terms of being properly able to interpret the media, she has a point.

Managing to pick up on that part - and only that part - of what everybody (or almost) says that is sense despite running contrary to accepted wisdom is a real challenge (but a good one for the truly unrestful).

--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Re: seeing things differently than the common version--

I've been thinking about this lately. ("Oh, noes!" [Biased] ) When someone differs from the consensus view of reality, when they think There's Something Going On That Most People Don't Know, they're considered crazy.

Sometimes, that might be true. But IMHO it's more complicated than that. ISTM many/most narratives of Life, the Universe, and Everything are based on the idea that this is what's going on, and everyone else is wrong. Politics, economics, science, religion, why the vending machine happily feeds everyone else but always jams when you are desperate for a Mars bar.

Christianity, for example. Epic battle between Good and Evil, involving unseen forces. That battle taking place inside us, and throughout Creation. Lots about "the world does this or that, but God/Christ...". Be in the World, not of it. Walk the narrow way, not the wide one that's clogged with everyone else. Believe that God exists; created everything; was heart-broken when Things Went Wrong; worked through a particular group of people to get to the point of becoming a human being (specifically male) through a virgin mother; gathered a rag-tag group of buddies, as well as mockers and frienemies; taught truths that weren't readily accepted; did miracles; walked on water; was crucified "for us and our salvation" to save us from a real, literal hell;, died;, was buried; paid a visit to the waiting dead*; was resurrected from the dead (!); hung out with his buddies, including walking with them incognito (probably trying very hard not to crack up with laughter!); physically and visibly ascended to Heaven; helps us from there; and is going to come back some day.**

Consensus view of reality--not.

Believing differently from the rest of the world isn't necessarily bad. Depends on what you believe, how you hold that belief, what you do with it, whether it makes you more compassionate or less, and whether or not it helps you really live.


*In Mike Warnke's words, Jesus strode up to Satan and said, "Hand over them keys, turkey!" [Snigger]

**Bumper sticker: "Jesus is coming. Look busy!" [Biased]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hawk

Semi-social raptor
# 14289

 - Posted      Profile for Hawk   Author's homepage   Email Hawk   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Except I don't think beleiving a worldview shared by over 2 billion other people, for over 2 thousand years, can be considered seeing things differently from the consensus.

--------------------
“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

 - Posted      Profile for deano   Email deano   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Personally I think Emily is right on the money! Surely you can all see that the Bilderberg Group is behind the conspiracy!

I think WE should BE Told!!!!!

--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Would you all please a) code correctly & b) use bold and italics for emphasis rather than capitalisation.

The UBB thread in styx is available for practice if needed.

Doublethink
Purgatory Host

Host Hat On

Let me reinforce Doublethink's earlier Host post.

deano, this means you, too. Whether you were joking or not. Ignoring a Host post takes you into Commandment 6 territory and brings you to the attention of Admin.

Barnabas62
Purgatory Host

Host Hat off


[ 11. June 2013, 08:48: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
Except I don't think beleiving a worldview shared by over 2 billion other people, for over 2 thousand years, can be considered seeing things differently from the consensus.

By definition, "consensus" means what most everyone believes. TTBOMK, most people since Jesus haven't been Christians. And, given that we've got something like 7 billion people in the world right now, your figure of 2 billion over 2,000 years is nowhere near a consensus.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hawk

Semi-social raptor
# 14289

 - Posted      Profile for Hawk   Author's homepage   Email Hawk   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
Except I don't think beleiving a worldview shared by over 2 billion other people, for over 2 thousand years, can be considered seeing things differently from the consensus.

By definition, "consensus" means what most everyone believes. TTBOMK, most people since Jesus haven't been Christians. And, given that we've got something like 7 billion people in the world right now, your figure of 2 billion over 2,000 years is nowhere near a consensus.
Worldviews are mostly geographically concentrated though. In the west orthodox Christianity was the consensus for most communities. In many communities (i.e the Bible Belt) it still is the consensus.

You need to take into account the insularity of the communities in question.

[ 11. June 2013, 11:45: Message edited by: Hawk ]

--------------------
“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts

Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
HCH
Shipmate
# 14313

 - Posted      Profile for HCH   Email HCH   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think the word "consensus" is sometimes used in the sense of "generally accepted" (as in "reach a consensus"), not simply "accepted by a majority". It may be too restrictive a meaning to be useful.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

 - Posted      Profile for North East Quine   Email North East Quine   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lothiriel:
quote:
Originally posted by Emily Windsor-Cragg:

When my little baby turned up with PKU at the age of 7 months, I delved into food tables and created a diet for him (never mind the Official formula!) that spared phenylalanine and provided sufficient protein for his needs.

I wrote the diet up as a class project in one class where the professor was a high-ranked member of the Dietary Officialdom. I SAVED MY BOY'S INTELLECT, because PKU results in massive retardation and ungovernable behavior. THAT BOY graduated from West Point and is now a Captain in the USArmy at the age of 27. So, the diet worked.

THAT PROFESSOR, obsessed as she was with dogma and doctrine, gave me a "C grade" on my paper, which was "barely passing," but she awarded "A grades" to other students who were more compliant with her dogma.


There's always the possibility that the paper was not written well enough to merit an "A", despite the apparent success of the diet itself. You weren't being graded on saving your son, but on how you presented your work.
Also, the Guthrie heel-prick test for PKU has been routine in UK medical practice for over 27 years, and PKU retardation has been pretty much non-existent since then, hasn't it? Is it different in America? What did your diet do that the standard diet following a positive Guthrie test didn't do?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

 - Posted      Profile for L'organist   Author's homepage   Email L'organist   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
@ North East Quine

Since EWC's child in question is now 27 and that PKU heel-prick testing has been carried out in most of the US since the 1970s, it can only be either that the child was one of the very tiny handful who give a false negative result to the heel-prick test, or who are borderline and go on to develop the condition in the first months of life: both very rare but not unknown.

In the UK health visitors are meant to keep an eye out for this when they see children in clinics.

--------------------
Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Given that the thread title shows a concern for what is true, I may not be the only one here who would be grateful for some clarification on that point.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools