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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: hows you're grammars.
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Kind of lightweight little online grammar quiz.
I missed one. Won't say which yet so people can take the test without spoilers.
[ 13. February 2013, 15:46: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Zero faults. It's coz I'm a cunning linguist. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
There is only one trick question I think.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
Two wrong. Ho hum.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Freelance Monotheist
Shipmate
# 8990
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Posted
Full marks, with a niggling doubt over the abstract/collective nouns section. I pride myself on being a grammar/spelling/language nerd though.
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Denial: a very effective coping mechanism
Posts: 1239 | From: Paris, France | Registered: Jan 2005
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Cara
Shipmate
# 16966
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Posted
Yay! All correct. I too pride myself on grammar etc so you'd have heard nothing from me if I'd made any mistakes!
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Pondering.
Posts: 898 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Two wrong. Ho hum.
Me too. Not bad, considering I didn't understand some of the questions!
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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
14/14. The gerund is an endangered species these days.
[ 06. February 2013, 18:18: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
13/14. I take it as a sign of maturity (or alternatively tiredness) that I'm not more upset at getting one wrong! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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agrgurich
Shipmate
# 5724
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
Zero faults. It's coz I'm a cunning linguist.
I, also
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Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole
AJG
Posts: 4478 | From: Michigan's Copper Country | Registered: Apr 2004
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
YES! Full marks. All that studying French grammar has at least made me reasonably literate about grammar terms in a way that school never did! (Oh yes and I guessed one...)
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:
(Oh yes and I guessed one...)
Bless your honesty, child.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
12/14 - not too bad as some were guesses. My English master would have been pleased.
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
Relieved to get 14/14 - thought I was losing the knack!
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Miss you, Erin.
Posts: 14382 | From: Under the duvet | Registered: Apr 2002
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
"14 out of a possible 14"
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
12/14. And I went to Grammar School, too. Tut, tut. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
I got two wrong. But I object! I was right about #8 if the word referred to lions.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
13/14 That was fun.
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
Posts: 3622 | From: The Keystone State | Registered: May 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
I got two wrong. But I object! I was right about #8 if the word referred to lions.
And I was right if it didn't!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
14/14. ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Winnow
Apprentice
# 5656
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Posted
Two wrong. I simply forgot #14, and #8 ... well ... none of the choices fit. So I chose the wrong one ![[Frown]](frown.gif) But I do pretty well, usually, and if I make a mistake it's often on purpose because I think my way makes more sense than the rules. So there.
Posts: 34 | From: Idaho | Registered: Mar 2004
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
14/14, probably because I was educated in Scotland in the 1970s, when grammar was still given its due place in the curriculum.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
All correct, but only because I had to stop and think about what was pretty obviously a trick question—as much vocabulary as grammar, as much logicing your way through things as knowing about language.
Naturally, that was my favorite.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Also one wrong.
Two of the questions were about vocabularly, not grammar, and two about spelling. Which is a lot better than the average grammar peevers can do. Also they actually know the difference between the active and the passive voice - something that I think 19 out of 20 peevologists don't.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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To The Pain
Shipmate
# 12235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
14/14. The gerund is an endangered species these days.
Perhaps. But maybe it is enjoying something of a resurgance?
Also a 14/14. But I couldn't tell you the rules I used to do so. A product of the 80s/90s system of not really teaching grammar. Means that I was terminally confused by complex foreign language grammar when it was introduced later in secondary school.
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Now occasionally blogging.
Hire Bell Tents and camping equipment in Scotland
Posts: 1183 | From: The Granite City | Registered: Jan 2007
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
13/14 Not bad for being an old lady sick at home with the creeping crud.
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Full marks here too (and I should jolly well hope so).
Leo: quote:
I really cannot see the point of teaching year 6 such stupid rules.
If you don't know the rules, then you can't work out when to ignore them.
At least these rules bear some relation to the actual rules of English grammar, rather than the fantasy rules based on Latin grammar which were dreamed up by previous generations of prescriptive grammarians...
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
11/14. Pleased to get gerund right, got two reversed but got "active voice" right too! Very mixed.
Still, it took me three attempts to get GCE 'O' level English, and that was a bare pass almost forty years ago. As you can probably tell.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
I got two wrong. But I object! I was right about #8 if the word referred to lions.
And I was right if it didn't!
I almost got it wrong, then caught the double meaning. 14 out of 14--but then, I was an editor in a past life and would have been too ashamed to post my score if it had been otherwise.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Theophania
Shipmate
# 16647
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Posted
I am MORTIFIED to admit that I got one wrong. Can I claim it was a temporary blip caused by misreading when tired?
Posts: 78 | Registered: Sep 2011
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Full marks here too (and I should jolly well hope so).
Leo: quote:
I really cannot see the point of teaching year 6 such stupid rules.
If you don't know the rules, then you can't work out when to ignore them.
At least these rules bear some relation to the actual rules of English grammar, rather than the fantasy rules based on Latin grammar which were dreamed up by previous generations of prescriptive grammarians...
Most of us DO ignore them. I generally know what ''sounds right'.
I was never taught these rules - I would have been in Year 6 in 1960 - before 'progressive' education. I taught some English over 35 years and never taught these rules, nor were they in the PGCE training.
I thought a 'gerund' was an American thing.
[ 09. February 2013, 09:13: Message edited by: leo ]
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I really cannot see the point of teaching year 6 such stupid rules.
Most of us DO ignore them. I generally know what ''sounds right'.
I was never taught these rules - I would have been in Year 6 in 1960 - before 'progressive' education. I taught some English over 35 years and never taught these rules, nor were they in the PGCE training.
I thought a 'gerund' was an American thing.
These are not stupid rules. These are the version for English of rules every other indo-european language has and functions by, and teaches its young native speakers how to use. Why the purple-headed fuck should English be so saintedly different? We need competent speakers who know how their language works, and can therefore express themselves with some precision. We need teachers who can teach these rules with assurance and real understanding. That rules out about 95% of those who went to school in the 80s (my generation) because they left school with nary a clue. I got several clues, being a linguist, but this had nothing to do with the teaching I received about my own native language.
ETA: This is not a very Circus-esque comment, but the honour of language as a system required a defence.
[ 09. February 2013, 09:37: Message edited by: FooloftheShip ]
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
As someone who did not get taught the rules and has had to make quite a lot of effort to learn them in adult life can I say that I appreciate them and why it is a good idea to learn them. Yes some kids can pick them up from example but other kids can't.
Natural style is only good if you have the ability to communicate in your style. If your style becomes impentratable to a reader under certain circumstances due to bad grammar then it is fails as a method of communication.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Most of us DO ignore them. I generally know what ''sounds right'.
Which is quite dangerous ground. You could well end up condoning usages such as "he was sat there" or "me and him went to" simply because they "sound right", i.e. they're the widespread colloquial forms in use in your area that you hear every day.
Anyone in a position of authority where they actually teach a language does need to know the rules by which that language operates, even if the course you teach doesn't require you to impart that to your students. I was quite surprised to find when I started secondary school in England that grammar wasn't taught in English lessons. We had to get it through French and German classes instead.
Incidentally, in the quiz, which one did people think was the trick question?
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Pia
Shipmate
# 17277
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
Zero faults. It's coz I'm a cunning linguist.
I, also
Me too!
Posts: 151 | Registered: Aug 2012
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birdie
fowl
# 2173
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Posted
14/14
I was never taught the rules in school. Some I've picked up along the way, some I think you can work out.
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"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness."
Captain Jack Sparrow
Posts: 1290 | From: the edge | Registered: Jan 2002
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
The trick question (don't click if you don't want a spoiler).
Some of the questions were more: did you learn terminology the way we taught it? Fair enough in a class, but not for a general quiz. I've never seen the phrase "conditional sentence" used that way. For me, a conditional sentence is an if-then sentence.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Leo: quote:
I thought a 'gerund' was an American thing.
They may not be used very much in modern colloquial English, but I can assure you that gerunds exist in British English too.
Plus what FooloftheShip said. I was at school in the mid-70s to early 80s and most of my grammar knowledge was transferred from learning foreign languages - where they DID explain what conditionals, active/passive voice (etc) were. I know someone who got as far as university before learning what a pronoun was.
[ 09. February 2013, 13:38: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I really cannot see the point of teaching year 6 such stupid rules.
Most of us DO ignore them. I generally know what ''sounds right'.
I was never taught these rules - I would have been in Year 6 in 1960 - before 'progressive' education. I taught some English over 35 years and never taught these rules, nor were they in the PGCE training.
I thought a 'gerund' was an American thing.
These are not stupid rules. These are the version for English of rules every other indo-european language has and functions by, and teaches its young native speakers how to use. Why the purple-headed fuck should English be so saintedly different? We need competent speakers who know how their language works, and can therefore express themselves with some precision. We need teachers who can teach these rules with assurance and real understanding. That rules out about 95% of those who went to school in the 80s (my generation) because they left school with nary a clue. I got several clues, being a linguist, but this had nothing to do with the teaching I received about my own native language.
ETA: This is not a very Circus-esque comment, but the honour of language as a system required a defence.
During my PGCE we were told NEVER to teach the rules. One learns best by reading and listening.
That is how I learned.
The reason I thought a gerund was American is that the only time I have heard the term is in American films which involve a classroom.
I gather than US schools are very ken on the rules, though Year/Grade 6 seems very young.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I didn't learn the rules and it took me years of reading to pick them up by osmosis. And some people, such as with Asperger's, lack a functioning pick-it-up-by-osmosis gland. It's a shitty way to teach. You might as well say that instead of teaching math rules we should just have people read a lot of math problems until they pick it up by osmosis. And we can see the results of this way of teaching every time we look at letters to the editor, or the postings on Facebook.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
That may be how you learnt, I was not able to learn that way and my ability to write clearly suffered because of it.
Nobody would think a mathematics teacher who gave pupils lots of examples and then marked their answers right or wrong was doing an adequate job. You need someone to explain the rules, probably in several different ways and then lots and lots of examples which start from the easy and get harder.
There is not one learning style and therefore only teaching it for one learning style penalises other pupils who would learn better with other styles.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The trouble with formal grammar teaching in schools is that they often teach rules that are not in fact rules. They get it wrong.
Everybody who can speak a language competently already knows the rules of that language. Obviously they do, because they can produce speech that follows those rules. Which is amazing when you think about it. Most of us learn most of the rules by the age of three or four, before we ever go to school, and pretty much all of them by the age of nine or ten. Just by listening and talking! Our brains are wonderful.
What we don't have, what school can teach us, is language for talking about language. Which is wonderful too. If its done right. But for all sorts of reasons its done badly. The so-called rules of English grammar taught in British and American schools are often worthless Latinisms that don't adequately describe English at all.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Everybody who can speak a language competently already knows the rules of that language. Obviously they do, because they can produce speech that follows those rules.
Well, no. They can produce speech that follows the rules (patterns) used by their family. Whether they are following the rules used by the larger language community, or indeed whether than can make themselves understood by the larger language community, is another question entirely. And that's why grammar is taught in schools.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
All very interesting, of course, but discussion of grammar teaching should probably be taken elsewhere—like Purg. If you're discussing the quiz or your wounded pride when you missed that one trick question, keep it here; otherwise, feel free to start a new thread somewhere that ain't here.
—Ariston, Circus Host
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I think I did ok, but the answer button didn't work when I pressed it.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
12 of 14; I fancy myself a writer; God willing, I shall be by the end of November!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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