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Source: (consider it) Thread: The good ol' U S of A
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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US has the most immigrants in the world in terms of sheer numbers, but in terms of percentage it's outstripped by it's outstripped by Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Ireland at least.

I remember posting something in Purg about this as well, that Australia has one of the highest foreign-born percentages in the world. Certainly way above America.

So yeah, there's a bit of a myth there that the USA likes to paint for itself about being the world's great melting pot.

EDIT: Re-found the statistics I posted in January, but unfortunately I can't tell you the original source. Percentage of people in a country that are foreign born:

Australia 27%
Canada 19.8%
USA 13%
UK 11%
Germany 8.7%
France 5.8%

[ 21. March 2013, 11:35: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Adeodatus
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Australia? I refuse to live in a hemisphere that has only one decent opera house*.


(* Buenos Aires)

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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orfeo

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When it comes to musicals, we have frequently been rated as putting on better productions than the originals overseas. I can't speak to our opera reputation.

The biggest issue is simply the tyranny of distance. Major international stars don't come here that often because of the distance we are from the main centres of 'Western' culture.

[ 21. March 2013, 11:38: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Jane R
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Adeodatus:
quote:
I've met and worked with many Americans, and I've never met one I didn't like...
I have met a couple of Americans I didn't like, but I wouldn't condemn the other 280 million of them because of it (I've met far more British people that I didn't like and I'm still here). I may disapprove of some of their foreign policy, find Hollywood misrepresentations of history irritating and think their healthcare system is nuts, but that doesn't mean I don't like anything about America.

I too would rather spend a year in San Francisco than a year in London. I have also holidayed in the USA and was very impressed with the quality of American museums (not dumbed down as much as the trendiest British museums are) and libraries (acres of books!!!).

It's still not top of my list of places I would like to live if I couldn't live in the UK - if I had a free choice I'd go for Spain, Portugal or New Zealand, though at my age I doubt New Zealand would have me (Spain and Portugal don't get a choice because of being in the EU).

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
BTW, I do wonder whether the trolling nature of the OP sheds more light on Western media then the articles on NPR that day. The OP creator hasn't really engaged after that first post, which seems to be his/her modus operandi.

Perhaps you, after all these internet years, can finally define 'troll' adequately.

Thanks ever so much in advance.

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moron
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# 206

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And has it ever occurred to you, Og, that what I post here is about the best I can do on any given day? That I recognize the superiority of many people who reply to my threads and humbly avoid dragging the thread down to my level?

Now I suppose I have to come up with a derogatory term to categorize you.


I agree about bacon but will pass on the cheese: too french for me.

[Smile]

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by moron:
And has it ever occurred to you, Og, that what I post here is about the best I can do on any given day?

Not posting is an option as well. Sometimes it's the best option.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Adeodatus
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The problem for many Brits is, our nearest large neighbours in Europe aren't great options either -

Spain: dreadful economy
Germany: dreadful flatulence
France: dreadful.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Not posting is an option as well. Sometimes it's the best option.

The concept has not escaped me - please consider our mutual post counts.

I occasionally feel like the non-Springsteen Bruce, only much less talented:

I never knew what you all wanted

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Zach82
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Do people from other countries ever think about the worthiness of their nations outside of comparing them to the United States?

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Jane R
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# 331

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Adeodatus:
quote:
The problem for many Brits is, our nearest large neighbours in Europe aren't great options either...
Speak for yourself. I wouldn't mind living in Germany either; they make great boardgames there and their bookshops are pretty good too.

Zach82, what makes you think we spend all our time comparing our countries to the US? We can go for days without thinking of you at all, or at least we could if you didn't have this unfortunate habit of starting wars everywhere... [Devil]

[ 21. March 2013, 13:23: Message edited by: Jane R ]

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Do people from other countries ever think about the worthiness of their nations outside of comparing them to the United States?

Yes. The Daily Mail online website is full of people whingeing about how terrible the UK is solely on the basis of how bad the Daily Mail has told them it is, without reference to any other countries at all, except the ones where all the "damned foreigners" are coming from.

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Zach82
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We get threads like this about the United States all the time, usually started by Americans. "Are we good? Do people love us? Why don't you love us?" I just can't recall seeing them about other countries. It looks really insecure. Then, of course, people chime in about how their own nations are virtuous, sophisticated utopias compared to the US.

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Zach82
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I oughtter add, when I said worthiness I wasn't asking whether people from other nations think about their nations economy/crime rate/drug trade/whatever. I was wondering whether people ask themselves silly questions like "Is my nation a force of good in the world?" "Are we the best nation on the earth?"

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Jane R
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# 331

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Zach:
quote:
We get threads like this about the United States all the time, usually started by Americans. "Are we good? Do people love us? Why don't you love us?"
Perhaps it's a difference in culture. Further up the thread I said I liked you (which most Brits would interpret as a ringing endorsement); why aren't you focusing on that instead of worrying that I don't love you?

Loving a country is difficult, because none of them are perfect. I love my country because it's mine; I don't always approve of it or even like it. Sometimes I am downright ashamed of it or embarrassed by it. However, it is still my country and it would be very difficult to leave it for somewhere else. I don't *love* any other countries in the same way.

[ 21. March 2013, 13:42: Message edited by: Jane R ]

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Zach82
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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Perhaps it's a difference in culture. Further up the thread I said I liked you (which most Brits would interpret as a ringing endorsement); why aren't you focusing on that instead of worrying that I don't love you?

Loving a country is difficult, because none of them are perfect. I love my country because it's mine; I don't always approve of it or even like it. Sometimes I am downright ashamed of it or embarrassed by it. However, it is still my country and it would be very difficult to leave it for somewhere else. I don't *love* any other countries in the same way.

My comment was really more of a criticism of Americans than non-Americans.

I would rather be loved for myself rather than for happening to have been born in in the United States, or for sharing some generalized trait of the other people from the United States. I actually have a kind of horror at the idea of wrapping up too much of one's identity in nationality.

[ 21. March 2013, 13:48: Message edited by: Zach82 ]

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Jane R
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Oh, OK. Thanks for explaining.

I don't think 'Is my nation a force for good in the world?' is a silly question, btw. We should all be asking it.

Adeodatus, if you're keen on opera I am really surprised you would not consider living in Germany. They have the largest number of opera houses anywhere in the world.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I oughtter add, when I said worthiness I wasn't asking whether people from other nations think about their nations economy/crime rate/drug trade/whatever. I was wondering whether people ask themselves silly questions like "Is my nation a force of good in the world?" "Are we the best nation on the earth?"

I don't, and I doubt many Brits do. It isn't the sort of question that occurs to most of us. It may have done, back in the days of the Empire, but I content myself with asking "Is this a good place to live in?" and "How could it be improved?". I do sometimes ask myself if I would like to move to another country, but only in the pursuit of happiness, not to be able to say I live in the 'best nation', whatever that may be.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:

Adeodatus, if you're keen on opera I am really surprised you would not consider living in Germany. They have the largest number of opera houses anywhere in the world.

That must be a lot of Wagner.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Oh, OK. Thanks for explaining.

I don't think 'Is my nation a force for good in the world?' is a silly question, btw. We should all be asking it.

Adeodatus, if you're keen on opera I am really surprised you would not consider living in Germany. They have the largest number of opera houses anywhere in the world.

As Captain Blackadder observed - the Teutonic reputation for brutality is well founded. Their operas last several days.

[ 21. March 2013, 13:55: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Do people from other countries ever think about the worthiness of their nations outside of comparing them to the United States?

Doing it right now in Purgatory, as I wonder why on earth we've been saddled with the most rigid, ruthless political party system in the English-speaking world. It drives me nuts.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Adeodatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Oh, OK. Thanks for explaining.

I don't think 'Is my nation a force for good in the world?' is a silly question, btw. We should all be asking it.

Adeodatus, if you're keen on opera I am really surprised you would not consider living in Germany. They have the largest number of opera houses anywhere in the world.

As Captain Blackadder observed - the Teutonic reputation for brutality is well founded. Their operas last several days.
Oh, I love the operas. It's the diet I can't take. Dining (I use the word in its loosest sense) once with a friend in Munich, my friend ordered Schweinefleisch, thinking, "that sounds like pork". Technically, it was. It was a dead piglet on a plate. With - iirc - pickled cabbage.

And as for their wines! Even the drier-than-dry ones are sweet! How they're not a nation of diabetics is anybody's guess.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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jbohn
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From this American's perspective, I can't imagine living anywhere else. Let's run through a short list of "possibilities":

UK - The weather stinks. CCTV everywhere - how's a guy to piss in an alley? If you carry a pocketknife they think you're a criminal. And what in hell are neeps and tatties?

Oz - too damned hot. And empty. And Foster's tastes like piss. That said, one of my best friends lives in Brisbane now, so I may have to visit. Koalas are kind of cute.

Germany - they talk funny. They're a bit too ethnically homogenous, really. Decent cuisine, though. I like their beer.

France - they're French. Ugh. Nice tower and all, but I can't say I'd stick around. The wine ain't bad.

Spain - They also talk funny. And have delusions of empire - kind of like the Brits. And have no idea how to run an economy. That said, the food's decent. And the Spanish ladies I work with are very nice. Still, not gonna move there.

China - Nice people. Tasty food. Oppressive single-party government. Just like being here in Minneapolis, with a different language. I enjoyed my visit, and I'd go back in a minute - but not moving there.

Canada - kind of like the U.S., but not. They say "eh" too much. Obsessed with hockey and curling. Too damned polite, really. Their beer's passable, I suppose. The French-speaking ones aren't to be trusted, to my mind - why don't they just speak English like civilized folk? Not moving there, either.

[Razz]

(For the humor/humour impaired, the above is what my UK friends call "taking the piss". The point is, any of us can find plenty of things to bitch about with regards to other countries, or other parts of our own country. Lord knows we hear about how bad the US is from the rest of you. [Biased] )

[ 21. March 2013, 14:23: Message edited by: jbohn ]

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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard

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Zach82
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"Is the US a good place to live?" seems a might more sensible question than "Are we NUMBER ONE?!"

But before this becomes another avenue of criticism of Americans, I'll add that an excessive readiness to point out how one's country is better than the United States makes it look like you fear that the answer to the latter question might possibly be "Yes." "Are we better than THEM?" is only barely better than "Are we better than EVERYONE?"

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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Tongue in cheek accepted, but I actually like our weather. It's seldom too cold, only too hot for a few days each year, and almost never homicidal compared with most parts of the world.

Endless days of overcast weather in Spring/Autumn can be a bit of a downer, but I'd not swap it if a bit of sunshine then meant I had to live with either months colder than a deep freeze, hotter than body heat, or, God help us, both.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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jbohn
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# 8753

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Endless days of overcast weather in Spring/Autumn can be a bit of a downer, but I'd not swap it if a bit of sunshine then meant I had to live with either months colder than a deep freeze, hotter than body heat, or, God help us, both.

I feel you there - MN weather goes from -20 F in winter to 100 F in summer all too regularly. Last year, St. Patrick's Day was 80 F. This year, 20-odd.

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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
I feel you there - MN weather goes from -20 F in winter to 100 F in summer all too regularly. Last year, St. Patrick's Day was 80 F. This year, 20-odd.

That is a significant problem with the USA -

They still use weird measurements.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Zach82
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jbohn : My list would involve "Minor irritants there that I don't have to deal with here."

UK: CCTV, standing in lines, warm beer, division of white people into 4 nationalities like 300-years-gone monarchic unions cause undue hardship. Monarchy, gawddamnit.

Oz: I like being cold some of the gawddamn time, you know.

Germany: Damned if I have the time to sort my gawddamn trash.

France: Maybe I just want the cheap wine, even if it doesn't go with the fish gawddamnit!

Spain: Who cares about Spain?

China: Gawddamn oppression.

Canada: I could never live with the little speeches about how Canadians are ever so different from Americans. Also, French, gawddamnit.

Edit:

Everywhere: Gawddamn metric system.

[ 21. March 2013, 14:37: Message edited by: Zach82 ]

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
I feel you there - MN weather goes from -20 F in winter to 100 F in summer all too regularly. Last year, St. Patrick's Day was 80 F. This year, 20-odd.

That is a significant problem with the USA -

They still use weird measurements.

I can translate. -20F - Fucking cold. 100F - Fucking hot.

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Zach82
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
I feel you there - MN weather goes from -20 F in winter to 100 F in summer all too regularly. Last year, St. Patrick's Day was 80 F. This year, 20-odd.

That is a significant problem with the USA -

They still use weird measurements.

I can translate. -20F - Fucking cold. 100F - Fucking hot.
-20 is definitely what Midwesterners would use at least three swears to describe. "Shit, it's so fucking cold, gawddamnit."

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Tongue in cheek accepted, but I actually like our weather. It's seldom too cold, only too hot for a few days each year, and almost never homicidal compared with most parts of the world.

Endless days of overcast weather in Spring/Autumn can be a bit of a downer, but I'd not swap it if a bit of sunshine then meant I had to live with either months colder than a deep freeze, hotter than body heat, or, God help us, both.

I agree Karl. It's the part that always seems to be missing from Genesis...

"... and after God made the Earth, he had a go at the countries, and once he'd perfected the technique he made England".

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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[Prince Philip Mode]

USA: Covered that earlier.

Oz: IVenemous snakes. Spiders. Violent kangaroos. Australian "beer".

Germany: Sauerkraut.

France: I'm not French, so I'd be an inferior species, a lesser being.

Spain: Too hot. Cruelty to donkeys.

China: Only so many ways a man wants to eat stewed ducks' feet. Like none.

Canada: I could never live with how they think they don't sound like Americans when the clearly do. cf. New Zealanders.

[/Prince Philip Mode]

[ 21. March 2013, 14:45: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Tongue in cheek accepted, but I actually like our weather. It's seldom too cold, only too hot for a few days each year, and almost never homicidal compared with most parts of the world.

Endless days of overcast weather in Spring/Autumn can be a bit of a downer, but I'd not swap it if a bit of sunshine then meant I had to live with either months colder than a deep freeze, hotter than body heat, or, God help us, both.

I agree Karl. It's the part that always seems to be missing from Genesis...

"... and after God made the Earth, he had a go at the countries, and once he'd perfected the technique he made England".

Mind, with what you where whining about not liking snow upthread, have you seen the weather for the next three days?

Hint - golf could be tricky.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
-20 is definitely what Midwesterners would use at least three swears to describe. "Shit, it's so fucking cold, gawddamnit."

And you can't count over there. Gawddamnit, damnation, godamm and what have you are are not bastard swear words, for fuck's sake!

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Jane R
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# 331

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quote:
Germany: Damned if I have the time to sort my gawddamn trash.
You'd have to do that here, too...

Thought of another problem for beer drinkers contemplating a move to the US - they're still using Queen Anne's pints there, a full 4 fluid ounces smaller than the British pint.

In Germany they serve it in litres.

In Spain they have Rioja wine!

Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
deano
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Mind, with what you where whining about not liking snow upthread, have you seen the weather for the next three days?

Hint - golf could be tricky.

I know, I know, more fucking snow!
[Frown]

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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# 15560

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It's when you get any country's people in large groups, drinking and singing. They are all awful.

It also helps if their country's educational system teaches the least bit of geography and cultural studies. I have noticed that Americans tend to know lots about their country and have rather limited ideas of the geography, culture and politics of other countries. We are generally able to say the name of our province to people from other countries (European, Asian, Pacific) and they can locate it, but almost always have tell Americans what states it is north of.

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ArachnidinElmet
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I vote for nomadism. We should all migrate like birds, according to the weather, the sports and arts seasons and whichever cultural festivities we fancy appropriating. Of course then we wouldn't have the pleasure of whinging about the weather, admittedly more a Uk failing than an American one.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

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# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by ArachnidinElmet:
I vote for nomadism. We should all migrate like birds, according to the weather, the sports and arts seasons and whichever cultural festivities we fancy appropriating. Of course then we wouldn't have the pleasure of whinging about the weather, admittedly more a Uk failing than an American one.

You are welcome to come here this alleged fako spring, where it is currently -20°C (-1°F) and you may sleep in a snowdrift from yesterday's blizzard. Or maybe unlike migratory birds you will adopt an east-west flight path and not the north-south one. You *might* enjoy the break from winter which is called summer, lasts 90 days if we're lucky, and might better labelled the mosquito season. (It's been one long winter with far too much snow, and I want that groundhog who said winter was over in February brought up on charges and executed).

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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jbohn
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# 8753

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What no_prophet said, although it's 9 above here...

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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Oz: I like being cold some of the gawddamn time, you know.

Ahem. We have an entire continent to choose from. You'll find the southern parts get reasonably chilly in the middle of the year.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Oz: I like being cold some of the gawddamn time, you know.

Ahem. We have an entire continent to choose from. You'll find the southern parts get reasonably chilly in the middle of the year.
Which is of course arse about face.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
arse about face.

Translation?

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Oz: I like being cold some of the gawddamn time, you know.

Ahem. We have an entire continent to choose from. You'll find the southern parts get reasonably chilly in the middle of the year.
Which is of course arse about face.
It used to be a joke that some people thought we celebrated Christmas in July. These days, "Christmas in July" is a quite popular event, where we can justify those big roast dinners and, certainly here in Canberra, a nice fireplace.

My family still has the big roast turkey dinner in December anyway. I'm still scarred from the memories of one particularly awful year in western Sydney when it was 40 degrees (metric, you know). Lots of people have replaced that with new more summer-appropriate traditions, particularly prawns on the BBQ.

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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
arse about face.

Translation?
= backwards. He's objecting to cold August nights and the fact that 'Hotter than July' is remarkably easy to achieve.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Koalas are kind of cute.

I keep explaining here on the Ship that koalas are foul-tempered beasts (despite sleeping 23 hours a day) that will probably piss on you if you try to handle one. This seems to have no effect. People still keep saying they're cute.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Koalas are kind of cute.

I keep explaining here on the Ship that koalas are foul-tempered beasts (despite sleeping 23 hours a day) that will probably piss on you if you try to handle one. This seems to have no effect. People still keep saying they're cute.
Orf, buddy, behavior <> appearance.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
I would rather be loved for myself rather than for happening to have been born in in the United States, or for sharing some generalized trait of the other people from the United States. I actually have a kind of horror at the idea of wrapping up too much of one's identity in nationality.
This is something I've always had difficulty wrapping my head around. Being proud of what is, most often, random chance. Perhaps it is early exposure to various countries and cultures, and nations with real concerns, but I could live in any of the countries mentioned above quite happily. Greatest country? Haven't found it, all yours are very nice, though.
Sorry to interrupt the flow, back to your first world problems.

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Hallellou, hallellou

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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[x-post replying to mousethief]

Which is exactly my point. Any appearance of cuteness is a cunning trap.

They have fingerprints, you know. Indistinguishable from human ones. They're plotting a takeover.

[ 21. March 2013, 15:47: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Zach82
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# 3208

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
[x-post replying to mousethief]

Which is exactly my point. Any appearance of cuteness is a cunning trap.

Isn't everything in Australia?

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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

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