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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Thatcher died
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
EE wrote:
quote:
I suppose it must be hard for those who desire their lives to be controlled by others (in other words, pathetic losers)
quote:
The more I read the spiteful and mean-spirited comments of the left, the more I feel inclined to move towards the kind of political and social thinking that Thatcher espoused.
Your rhetoric in the first quote leads me to suspect that your posture of balanced and thoughtful consideration in the second quote is a bit of a put-on.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
At least she survived long enough to see that socialism is completely dead. Thank God.
Waves to deano from Scotland. Anti-Thatcher feeling has helped socialism survive. Did you know that Scotland has more Pandas than Tory MPs?
yes and they came from a communist country as well.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
There are a lot of non-Tories in the South, and they have no voice. Whatever the reason. And that is not fair or democratic.
Try being a Tory in the Black Country. I may as well not bother voting, for all the chance I've got of seeing my constituency ever turn blue.
Well, quite. My fault for moving out of a marginal seat, in my case. I did wonder once if we ought to make constituencies with roughly equal numbers of the two parties most likely to win them, but then realised that that puts the choice of government in the hands of a very small coterie of people (as in my last home area), and that would not be democratic or fair, either.
One problem is the split between the work an MP does for their constituency, which can be good regardless of their affiliation, and their need to toe party lines. (My parents didn't mind being in Bill Deedes' constituency because he was a good MP in that way. Mine also has good characteristics, but I have to balance that with his being in the cabinet.) And it does help not to have someone who is frankly an adherent of basic nuttiness, which can happen with some safe seats.
There has to be a solution somewhere which allows thee and me to have our views influence the rule of the state when appropriate. Goodness knows what it is, though.
I get really fed up, though, with politicians who claim a mandate when they did not have a majority of the popular vote. The current Tories do, and so did Mrs T. Some sort of mystical force must operate whereby regardless of the number of people voting for any manifesto, it magically transforms in the a number of seats which goes against that number. How the present state of things can claim a mandate is beyond my wit. Perhaps it's to do with quantum effest or string theory. I can't understand those, either.
[ 08. April 2013, 17:42: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
I am quite prepared to believe that people have, in their opinion, good reasons to have voted for Thatcher, or the Tories since she stopped being PM. These can selfish reasons, or delusions, but Tory voters aren't the only ones who do that.
What gets me is the stunning lack of empathy with those who hate Thatcher. We hear talk of "lefties" this and "lefties" that, but little engagement with the concerns. I mean, things like being made redundant and then receiving little welfare money while at the same time telling them to "get on their bike" and find work in a time when 3m were unemployed, or creating a culture of police impunity, a culture that contributed to the Hillsborough disaster; or a doubling of poverty between 1979 and 1990, or the support for Pinochet or the talk of Mandela being a "terrorist" are, seemingly, ignored.
I can take it that individual Tories can be OK people. During hard financial times in my life I have benefited from a few Daily Mail types who paid for bird-watching holidays, donating me sofas and clothes, something that stops me from believing all Tory voters to be twats.
It's the disregard of peoples' concerns that gets me. I mean, now we're seeing a government using a tragedy in order to score points against people on benefit as well as reduced help for disabled people, and it is at this time we see a Thatcher-lover here trolling about Obama.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
I think she ought to be chucked down a disused mineshaft. Spoilt for choice there.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
As for odd and impersonal - have you visited an EMI nursing home or had a relative in one?
My Mum is in one as we speak, after being cared for by us for four years. We visit her every day, she is comfortable and very well cared for. Only ten people live there, it is excellently run and there is never any smell.
I think a hotel would be a the worst place for her.
<edited code>
[ 08. April 2013, 17:51: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
... or the talk of Mandela being a "terrorist"...
If you have access to last yesterday's Sunday Times, you might be interested to read the article by Robin Renwick, Britain's ambassador in South Africa in the late 80s, who writes rather sympathetically about Mrs Thatcher's efforts to get Mandela released and her strident criticism of the apartheid regime, delivered face-to-face to South African leaders.
[ 08. April 2013, 17:47: Message edited by: Anglican't ]
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
What gets me is the stunning lack of empathy with those who hate Thatcher. We hear talk of "lefties" this and "lefties" that, but little engagement with the concerns.
Yeah, but how many of those on the left have even a single fuck to give about the concerns of those on the right? There's no empathy in that direction either - everyone's just in it for their own side.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote:
Posted by Rosa Winkel
It's the disregard of peoples' concerns that gets me. I mean, now we're seeing a government using a tragedy in order to score points against people on benefit as well as reduced help for disabled people, and it is at this time we see a Thatcher-lover here trolling about Obama.
Where are all these disabled people "getting reduced help": I know many long-term/lifetime disabled (benefit of spending time in a spinal injuries unit) and NOT ONE of them is having the benefits they receive reduced, not one. But perhaps that is what "targetting" means - making sure that the people who are in greatest need get the greatest amount of help?
As for people's concerns being disregarded - well, there are plenty of people who have been mightily concerned at the number of people deemed to be inacapable of looking after/providing for themselves. Look at the figures, between 1979 and 1990 the number of people registered as being incapable of working in the UK when compared to the rest of the EU went from being broadly similar to at least three times the number per 1,000.
Scoring points against people on benefit? Well, I think the point being made by some Tory politicians was that Mr Philpott was not himself entitled to anything other than unemployment benefit (I know, "Jobseeker's Allowance) but in fact his bank account was where the benefits rightfully belonging to his wife and his live-in lover ended up.
I am not a "Thatcher-lover", I would not dream of "trolling" anyone, least of all the much-maligned Obama, but I don't think any valid political point is made if cheap gibes are just flung about - and it is particularly inappropriate in relation to the news of a death, regardless of who that person was.
And just because this is Hell doesn't make it better or acceptable.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Yeah, but how many of those on the left have even a single fuck to give about the concerns of those on the right? There's no empathy in that direction either - everyone's just in it for their own side.
You mean, like moving more of the world's wealth into the pockets of the super-wealthy? Yeah, the left has been shockingly dismissive of that.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I know many long-term/lifetime disabled (benefit of spending time in a spinal injuries unit) and NOT ONE of them is having the benefits they receive reduced, not one. But perhaps that is what "targetting" means - making sure that the people who are in greatest need get the greatest amount of help?
Really? None of them are, for example, single people assigned to two-bed bungalows? I guess spinal injuries are at the extreme end of the spectrum. I, too, know quite a few people with disabilities - though none with spinal injuries - and I can't think of one whose benefits aren't under threat in one way or another. Which just goes to show that anecdotal evidence isn't worth much, I suppose.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
What gets me is the stunning lack of empathy with those who hate Thatcher. We hear talk of "lefties" this and "lefties" that, but little engagement with the concerns.
Yeah, but how many of those on the left have even a single fuck to give about the concerns of those on the right? There's no empathy in that direction either - everyone's just in it for their own side.
I have little empathy with those on "the right" who are wealthy while the whole concept of working-class Tories baffles me, and that's despite my mother being one.
To be honest, she didn't like Thatcher (although she always voted Conservative), possible because they had rather too much in common. My mother didn't like determined women who weren't worried what weak people thought of them.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson
Your rhetoric in the first quote leads me to suspect that your posture of balanced and thoughtful consideration in the second quote is a bit of a put-on.
Hmmm... Since you are so concerned about rhetoric, I notice that you have not as yet made any critical comment about the following:
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Cockell
DING DONG THE BITCH IS DEAD!!!!
Being a person of considerable integrity (as I am sure you must be), you will be pulling Alex up on his rather impassioned 'rhetoric'?
After all, I wouldn't want to think you are playing the hypocrite with me, would I?
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Edith
Shipmate
# 16978
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Posted
ATOS has just decided that Mrs Thatcher is fit for work.
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Edith
Posts: 256 | From: UK | Registered: Mar 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
After all, I wouldn't want to think you are playing the hypocrite with me, would I?
I'd hate to suggest you're being thick, EE, but I believe Stetson was pointing out your hypocrisy, rather than the unpleasantness of your tone, which after all was your bugbear, not his.
quote:
Originally posted by Edith:
ATOS has just decided that Mrs Thatcher is fit for work.
I struggle to think of any work she was fit for, even when alive.
[ 08. April 2013, 18:49: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Her government never got anywhere near half the popular vote - not even in the 1983 khaki election. An actual majority were opposed to her from begining to end. Don't blame us for what the Tories did.
Be honest, ken. No government has had a majority of the popular vote in recent memory. You have to go back to Stanley Baldwin's 1929 Conservative victory to find one party with more than 50% of the popular vote.
Here is the actual share of the popular vote held by the winning party since 1970. Conservatives in bold, Labour not:
1970: Heath: 46.4%
Feb 1974: Wilson: 37.2%
Oct 1974: Wilson: 39.2%
1979, Thatcher: 43.9%
1983, Thatcher: 42.4%
1987, Thatcher: 42.2%
1992, Major: 41.9%
1997, Blair: 43.2%
2001, Blair: 40.7%
2005, Blair: 35.2%
2010: Cameron: 36.1% (no outright majority, coalition with Clegg (23.0 %))
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Yes, QLib, most in 2 bed (at least) - but that is to provide for overnight care.
Look, we all want to give the incapacitated a hand-up but there are also many people (over 800,000 at the last count) who, faced with a medical check on their current condition chose to take themselves "off the sick" - and this when the successful appeal rate against the much-flawed ASOS regime is at about 80%.
As our US cousins would say, go figure, it aint rocket science.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
What gets me is the stunning lack of empathy with those who hate Thatcher. We hear talk of "lefties" this and "lefties" that, but little engagement with the concerns.
Yeah, but how many of those on the left have even a single fuck to give about the concerns of those on the right? There's no empathy in that direction either - everyone's just in it for their own side.
I'm quite prepared to accept that people have needs that are at odds with each other. (Doesn't have to be that way, like.) It's just that we see those on the right criticising people on the left for not liking Thatcher, or saying that she was wonderful in a way that only good things happened under her, or not even considering whether these subjective good things came at a heavy price. It's the right who cannot accept that people have real reasons for disliking Thatcher.
The "they're doing it as well, miss" argument isn't a good one.
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Where are all these disabled people "getting reduced help": I know many long-term/lifetime disabled (benefit of spending time in a spinal injuries unit) and NOT ONE of them is having the benefits they receive reduced, not one.
I am glad to hear that. Other people, such as this one have not been as lucky.
quote:
[...]
As for people's concerns being disregarded - well, there are plenty of people who have been mightily concerned at the number of people deemed to be inacapable of looking after/providing for themselves. Look at the figures, between 1979 and 1990 the number of people registered as being incapable of working in the UK when compared to the rest of the EU went from being broadly similar to at least three times the number per 1,000.
While poverty doubled. Perhaps that tells you something about wage levels.
quote:
Scoring points against people on benefit? , I think the point being made by some Tory politicians was that Mr Philpott was not himself entitled to anything other than unemployment benefit (I know, "Jobseeker's Allowance) but in fact his bank account was where the benefits rightfully belonging to his wife and his live-in lover ended up.
It was an issue of domestic abuse, not of the welfare state. I mean, when Shipman was found guilty of killing patients no-one brought the NHS into it.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Yes, QLib, most in 2 bed (at least) - but that is to provide for overnight care.
Then, overnight care or not, I'll think you'll find they're all having their benefits cut because of that extra room, unless the government is alreasy rapidly re-writing that rule.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
Given that Mrs Thatcher encouraged small government, personal responsibility and economically viable industries,
Did she? Well she was bloody incompetant at it then. On her watch government got bigger, taxes went up, the proportion of government revenue spent on benefits went up, and large chunks of profitable industry were deliberately shut down, to be replaced by low-wage service busineses, a residential property price boom, and investment banking. And we all know how that turned out.
Its really hard to see how kicking someone out of work and forcing them to depend on the dole or on disablity allowance can be imagined to encourage personal responsihbility.
quote:
I suppose it must be hard for those who desire their lives to be controlled by others (in other words, pathetic losers) to show due respect to such a person. This kind of dependency mentality is characteristic of someone who has failed to mature in life. It probably explains the puerility of your comments, which any normal person would have grown out of at about the age of 13.
The old lie that right-wingers are more libertarian thn left-wingers. ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif) Never remotely true in Britain. The Tories are and always have been the party of the monarchy, of authority, of social control, of domination, of the powerful State, of the rich doing what they hell they like and the rest of us obeying orders like good little forlelock-tossing arse-licking peasants. Not citizens, not autonomous human beings, but just "human resources". Our only reason for existence to provide them with a little bit of cheap labour now and again when they want some work done. And when there is no work, to be stripped of all dignity and individuality and proicessed into some sort of standardised jobseeking crawler, parroting the words and behaviour of the minders they deign to put over us.
Yes, and that rant isn;t so myuch about Thatchers as about that excecrable shite George Osborne, the nasty evil little toffee-nosed cunt that the is. Thatcher's gone and the bloody government is run by Lord Snooty and his pals.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Yes, QLib, most in 2 bed (at least) - but that is to provide for overnight care.
Look, we all want to give the incapacitated a hand-up but there are also many people (over 800,000 at the last count) who, faced with a medical check on their current condition chose to take themselves "off the sick" - and this when the successful appeal rate against the much-flawed ASOS regime is at about 80%.
As our US cousins would say, go figure, it aint rocket science.
It's about where the focus is.
One can focus on Housing Benefit being paid out to people living in the housing private sector, a private sector made a lot bigger by the Tories.
One can focus on an estimated 95bn of lost tax.
One can focus on the implicit state subsidy (in 2009 estimated by the BoE to be 100bn) to banks.
One can focus on the huge bonuses paid to the directors who contributed to the economic downturn.
One can focus on the 130bn for a Trident Replacement.
But no, the focus in on a small minority unemployed and disabled people. This focus says a lot.
The successful appeal rate with ATOS with 40%, by the way.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Other people, ... have not been as lucky.
I know a former nurse now unable to work due to a degenerative spinal condition that seems to manifest in periods of being barely able to move. She's had multiple operations, on all kinds of medication. She was recently assessed by an Atos "health assessment professional" (as far as I can tell, that means no medical qualifications necessary) on a good day and lost all DLA.
Scope reckons 600,000 people will eventually lose their benefits as a result of the switch. I'd be interested to see where you sourced your figure of the numbers failing to claim after being told they're going to be assessed. I find it unbelievable.
Ken, you're right about the underclass thing. I shouldn't use right wing terminology.
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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Alex Cockell
Ship’s penguin
# 7487
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Posted
Add on a true DLA fraud level of 0.5% while Cameron's lot claim it's much higher - and therefore push more people into penury...
Posts: 2146 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
(2nd paragraph of previous post was obviously to L'organist)
...
(Carry on)
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GreyFace:
Scope reckons 600,000 people will eventually lose their benefits as a result of the switch. I'd be interested to see where you sourced your figure of the numbers failing to claim after being told they're going to be assessed. I find it unbelievable.
Yeah, me too - doesn't really fit with the 80% successful appeal rate.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
Compared to your wishing for others to be tortured eternally, even the worst of the gravedancing has been a model of civility and respect.
You're right. I should have held my tongue after the first paragraph but I was angry. I'm sorry.
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I'll see you there - I'll even buy you a pint.
Thank you but I suspect they'll only serve lager down there.
Bet it's not Fosters, even Hell wouldn't stoop that low.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Look at the figures, between 1979 and 1990 the number of people registered as being incapable of working in the UK when compared to the rest of the EU went from being broadly similar to at least three times the number per 1,000.
Sure. A policy decision to get the unemployment figures down: don't get people into work, get them onto the sick. It's one of those things you do when you don't give a fuck about unemployment: like not making unemployment benefit claimants reigster as unemployed (as Thatch's government did for a year or two in the early 80s).
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
If Cameron gives her a state funeral, I hope he has the decency not to drag The Queen along.
If it were up to me, I'd leave it to her family to dispose of her remains and not upset the whole country. A prayer and then straight through the curtain for her!
If there is a state funeral I will be out of the country for a long weekend.
I'll be watching to make sure she's gone.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
And what's this ' full military honours' malarky at the funeral? She didn't serve in the forces- in fact chose not to, in 1943 (though I'm not blaming her for that)- and her great 'victory' in the Falklands only had to happen because her government was sending strong signals to the Argentinians that we weren't prepared to defend the islands. Did Edward Heath (ex Lt Col RA) or Jim Callaghan (ex Lt RN, and the PM who pre-empted an Argentinian attack on the Falklands in 1977) have full military honours?
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
The news front-end for my email provider has the following interesting headline:
Thatcher to receive ceremonial funeral
---
Um, aren't all funerals ceremonial?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I have mixed feelings about Thatcher. I'm not quite old enough to remember her well (I was born a few months after her election - and rather embarassingly, my middle name is Margaret. My parents chose it because it was my great-grandmother's name, nothing to do with the Iron Lady, but it's still a bit unfortunate ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ) - but since this is a rant thread, mostly what I'm narked about is the fact that there's going to be nothing else on the BBC for bloody WEEKS.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Cockell:
and the Tories are carrying on with Thatcherite policies that has cost this country a hell of a lot...
They can only do that because New Labour carried the torch meanwhile. I can't rejoice even though the witch is dead because her spell still continues to exert its malevolence.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
... is the Left ever very edifying?
Wilson, Falkender, Kagan, Stonehouse, Moreley, Jacqui Smith, Lord Ahmed all come to mind...
Left? Though Wilson was certainly to the left of nearly all in the present Labour Party, and did a good job IMHO.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
You mean, like moving more of the world's wealth into the pockets of the super-wealthy? Yeah, the left has been shockingly dismissive of that.
The right want to move wealth into their own pockets, the left want to move wealth into theirs. Viva la difference.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Mousethief
Here is your answer. Its a good old British fudge, lets hope that it pleases more than it annoys, but with people's reactions to Margaret Thatcher I expect that is unlikely.
Me, how they deal with her remains is irrelevant.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I have little empathy with those on "the right" who are wealthy
Yes, my point exactly. But for some reason, it's only the right who are considered to be morally deficient for lacking empathy for the other side.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Marvin the Martian: the left want to move wealth into theirs.
That doesn't sound like the Left I know. Like I told you before, I know quite a number of people of the Left that vote for policies that would cost them money.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Bollocks, Marvin. The Right want to move wealth into their own pockets, the Left wants to move it into ours. And in fact the best of the Left- RH Tawney, for example- are rather sceptical about the benefits of having too much wealth at all.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I'm celebrating Thatcher's death because she wanted to exterminate the poor.
Oh get over it. There's a world of difference between wanting to kill people and wanting to make people take care of themselves rather than relying on government handouts.
That's right, make bricks without straw. Take away their jobs and then punish them for being unemployed.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The posts from Boogie and Alex Cockell are offensive.
Whatever your opinion of Margaret Thatcher's governments, a woman has just died and she will be mourned by her family and friends.
For people on a site such as SoF to make these responses is uncharitable and unChristian.
Totally agree. Very very bad form. Shame on them both ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) At times like this I wish we had the equivalent of the US 30 day 'flag rule'.
Articulate comment
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
That doesn't sound like the Left I know.
That's not the first time here that the assumption as to what constitutes "something the left want" is actually a fallacy.
It's not easy talking about politics when straw-men fill fields.
[ 08. April 2013, 21:10: Message edited by: Rosa Winkel ]
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Bollocks, Marvin. The Right want to move wealth into their own pockets, the Left wants to move it into ours.
The Left wants to put money in my pocket? Since when? Socialist governments are not usually renowned for their low tax rates...
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Bollocks, Marvin. The Right want to move wealth into their own pockets, the Left wants to move it into ours.
The Left wants to put money in my pocket? Since when? Socialist governments are not usually renowned for their low tax rates...
You suffer from severe anemia of imagination if the only thing that comes to mind concerning moving money is taxes. Oh right, you're conservative. Carry on.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Bollocks, Marvin. The Right want to move wealth into their own pockets, the Left wants to move it into ours.
The Left wants to put money in my pocket? Since when? Socialist governments are not usually renowned for their low tax rates...
But people aren't voting left because they think they themselves will end up richer! I've never been on benefits, and I sincerely hope I never will. (I had a period where I could have claimed jobseeker's, but luckily I found a job just in time.) I'm in favour of them because not everyone is as lucky as me — and I support higher taxes if that's what it takes to provide them.
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I've been on Job Seeker's, it's bloody awful and they make you feel like a criminal.
That said, there are those who 'work the system' of course and there is certainly something of a dependency culture in some quarters. But even so ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
There has to be a solution somewhere which allows thee and me to have our views influence the rule of the state when appropriate. Goodness knows what it is, though.
It's called proportional representation. You all ran away from it screaming on the basis that it allegedly takes Australians weeks to conduct an election, or some other nonsense that didn't bear any resemblance to what's actually happened here for the last century.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Marvin the Martian: the left want to move wealth into theirs.
That doesn't sound like the Left I know. Like I told you before, I know quite a number of people of the Left that vote for policies that would cost them money.
Indeed. I support things that cost me money quite frequently. Why? Because as someone who can afford to go on an overseas holiday for 12 weeks I know I'm bloody wealthy, and the fact that I can't do that AND buy a home cinema system doesn't suddenly make me 'poor'.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Right. Now, I wanted to make one other observation...
It hit me, catching up on this thread, that there's one thing fairly remarkable/odd about this sense of celebration from some quarters: this woman hasn't been in power since 1990.
People are carrying on in much the same way that is usually used for the toppling of a hated dictator. You know, one who was in power immediately before toppling.
What sort of victory are you celebrating, exactly? Is the political landscape radically altered by the death of a woman who hasn't formed part of government for a couple of decades? Government going to fall? Cabinet reshuffle required? Policy rethink?
Urgent memo on an undersecretary's desk?
Thatcher's death doesn't mean shit, practically speaking. So it seems a bit dopey to get carried away over it.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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