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Source: (consider it) Thread: Thatcher died
John D. Ward
Shipmate
# 1378

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A public statement on the press response by one of our regular posters here:

Pete Broadbent as reported by Daily Telegraph

Any thoughts ?

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QLib

Bad Example
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Good for him. I have no real quarrel with the people who call themselves Thatecherites expressing their admiration, but I do resent the idea that those who dissent from that view are somehow not playing the game. The "whatever you think of her policies, you have to admit she was Great" argument (if that's the right word) is banal, though it is all of a piece with this country's increasing tendency to indulge in emotional masturbation at any and every opportunity.

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
A public statement on the press response by one of our regular posters here:

Pete Broadbent as reported by Daily Telegraph

Any thoughts ?

Pete 3, Torygraph Nil.


quote:
[...he...] accused the BBC of “appallingly sycophantic” coverage of the former Prime Minister’s death while the press, he said, was silencing voices of opposition."
Spot on. This isn't really about hating or loving Margaret Thatcher, its about resisting attempts to rewrite history.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
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I've been impressed (again) by the Channel 4 News. As well as showing how many people honour and revere Thatcher, they also gave space to those who suffered at her hands and still find it hard to forgive her. It couldn't help but make clear that she is still a divisive figure.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
"Glorious Revolutions" tend not to be so "glorious" for those who didn't want them to happen. [/QB]

They tend not too [at least in terms of against the wall] until they get invaded. Then either they nominally win but some utter bastard gets in charge (and by that point they're paranoid anyway). Or they lose and an evil dictator gets put in power.

There are times when I suspect either are considered satisfactory (pace Animal Farm again). And also we have the example of Hitler for when we don't intervene.

[ 11. April 2013, 19:25: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
A public statement on the press response by one of our regular posters here:

Pete Broadbent as reported by Daily Telegraph

Any thoughts ?

Bishop Pete's politics are well-known [Biased]

I haven't seen the BBC TV coverage, not being in the UK. "Sycophantic" wouldn't be a fair description of the BBC web coverage though - if anything, the BBC website was weighted too heavily against her record: an over-recalling of things like the Poll Tax riots, but in general it gave a reasonable coverage of her time in office.

I think Labour leaders like Milliband and Blair set the right note, when they talk about how they have some profound disagreements with her policies, but nevertheless can respect some of her achievements.

I agree that it would be nice to be able to have a grown-up discussion about her legacy, although this week is perhaps not the time for that. Bishop Pete is right to say that it's hard to do that amid all the sycophancy. It's equally hard to do that when the other side is singing "Ding Dong the witch is dead", and it's a predictable shame that Bishop Pete doesn't mention that.

If you want to have a grown up discussion, you have to keep your viscera firmly under control - whether you have visceral love or hate for Lady Thatcher.

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Anglican't
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
I haven't seen the BBC TV coverage, not being in the UK. "Sycophantic" wouldn't be a fair description of the BBC web coverage though - if anything, the BBC website was weighted too heavily against her record: an over-recalling of things like the Poll Tax riots, but in general it gave a reasonable coverage of her time in office.

I agree. Take, for example, this screen shot. The BBC saw fit to report prominently concerns over the cost of the funeral that even the left-wing press didn't see fit to report so prominently.
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comet

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quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
A public statement on the press response by one of our regular posters here:

Pete Broadbent as reported by Daily Telegraph

Any thoughts ?

[Big Grin]

if Pete ever wants to give up that silly little day job of his, he'd make a pretty good Hellhost.

--------------------
Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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Piglet
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
... when the other side is singing "Ding Dong the witch is dead" ...

According to a report in the Telegraph the BBC is quite likely to play it in its chart show on Sunday, as sales of the recording have sent it into the top 10. FWIW I think that would be in the most appalling bad taste; she had children and grandchildren who are mourning her, and I can't imagine how I'd have felt if people started singing that after my mother died.

Anyway, they'd presumably have to explain why a song from the 1930s was suddenly back in the charts, as the target audience is too young to remember her, which rather begs the question: who was buying the recordings?

Just out of curiosity, why is it that the "do not speak ill of the dead" rule seems to have been waived in her case?

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
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Regarding your question, see that very debate in Purgatory.

Or the Prayer Thread in AS... Oh, wait...

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Even more so than I was before

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
A public statement on the press response by one of our regular posters here:

Pete Broadbent as reported by Daily Telegraph

Any thoughts ?

[Big Grin]

if Pete ever wants to give up that silly little day job of his, he'd make a pretty good Hellhost.

I concur. Pure trouble, that one, and that's pretty much a job requirement. [Big Grin]

(Seriously, I don't claim to know all that much about Thatcher, but the conversation is certainly giving me flashbacks to Reagan's three day "No, really! Sainthood!" fest of a funeral.)

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Boogie

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# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
... when the other side is singing "Ding Dong the witch is dead" ...

According to a report in the Telegraph the BBC is quite likely to play it in its chart show on Sunday, as sales of the recording have sent it into the top 10. FWIW I think that would be in the most appalling bad taste; she had children and grandchildren who are mourning her, and I can't imagine how I'd have felt if people started singing that after my mother died.

Anyway, they'd presumably have to explain why a song from the 1930s was suddenly back in the charts, as the target audience is too young to remember her, which rather begs the question: who was buying the recordings?

Just out of curiosity, why is it that the "do not speak ill of the dead" rule seems to have been waived in her case?

Have a look at this thread, piglet.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Dark Knight

Super Zero
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quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
A public statement on the press response by one of our regular posters here:

Pete Broadbent as reported by Daily Telegraph

Any thoughts ?

No. Just this.
[Overused]

--------------------
So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me
- A B Original: I C U

----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
[qb] ... when the other side is singing "Ding Dong the witch is dead" ...

...she had children and grandchildren who are mourning her, and I can't imagine how I'd have felt if people started singing that after my mother died.

Mind you the son we're meant to feel sorry for is <allegations removed by Sioni Sais {Hellhost} - potential C7 violation>. And definitely some of his mother's choices seem to have been made for his interest.

But the daughter doesn't seem too bad, limited to saying a few stupid things.

Hostly Bowler On

Jay-Emm, please be careful when throwing epithets around, even in Hell, as while we on The Ship know Hell is different it's as public as anywhere else. Margaret Thatcher is dead, her son is not.

While one of the three allegations may have had legs the others didn't. Now have a look at our ten C's, especially C7 regarding libellous material, take notice of it and be much more careful in future.

You probably consider I am being harsh in removing material and you would be right, but libel law is very serious, especially in the UK. I had a shedload of potential C7s to deal with as a rookie Hellhost and it wasn't fun dealing with them.

Hostly Bowler Off

Sioni Sais
Hellhost

[ 13. April 2013, 01:29: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

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pete173
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quote:
Originally posted by comet:


if Pete ever wants to give up that silly little day job of his, he'd make a pretty good Hellhost.

The day job is a lot easier than that!

--------------------
Pete

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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I don't know about that, I get the feeling once you settled in you'd put Tomb to shame.

Not to mention that wet end RooK. [Big Grin]

[ 12. April 2013, 09:32: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Matt Black

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
I haven't seen the BBC TV coverage, not being in the UK. "Sycophantic" wouldn't be a fair description of the BBC web coverage though - if anything, the BBC website was weighted too heavily against her record: an over-recalling of things like the Poll Tax riots, but in general it gave a reasonable coverage of her time in office.

I agree. Take, for example, this screen shot. The BBC saw fit to report prominently concerns over the cost of the funeral that even the left-wing press didn't see fit to report so prominently.
Agreed; I'd hardly describe the Left-leaning Beeb as 'sycophantic' in its coverage - lots of mentioning of her being a divisive figure, miners' strike, etc

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Pre-cambrian
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quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
... when the other side is singing "Ding Dong the witch is dead" ...

According to a report in the Telegraph the BBC is quite likely to play it in its chart show on Sunday, as sales of the recording have sent it into the top 10. FWIW I think that would be in the most appalling bad taste;
An alternative way of looking at it is that not playing something in the charts top 10 during a charts show is the rewriting of history that ken was pointing out.

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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
An alternative way of looking at it is that not playing something in the charts top 10 during a charts show is the rewriting of history that ken was pointing out.

Well, quite - if a song is in the Top 10 then of course it should be played in the Top 10 radio show!

Of course, that doesn't mean there has to be anything during that show that explains why the song is in the Top 10, barring the obvious "because it sold more copies". They never see the need to explain what the latest ear-assaulter from Jessie J or One Direction says about society, do they?

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Hail Gallaxhar

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kentishmaid
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Apparently the BBC got equal amounts of complaints that its reporting of Thatcher's death was biased to the left *and* to the right. I have also heard it said that it is pretty consistently accused of these biases in equal measure. To my mind that suggests they've got the balance pretty much right.
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Eliab
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# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
A public statement on the press response by one of our regular posters here:

Pete Broadbent as reported by Daily Telegraph

Any thoughts ?

+Pete was almost complimentary about Mrs T at Spring Harvest last week, saying that she had been a politician who made values and convictions central to public debate, and that this was a good and necessary thing for society. I don't think anyone was in doubt about what he thought of her particular take on social values, but he did acknowledge the importance of her contribution.

I thought that was a pretty fair assessment (and I'd identify as centrist rather than left-wing).

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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Mad Cat
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
An alternative way of looking at it is that not playing something in the charts top 10 during a charts show is the rewriting of history that ken was pointing out.

Well, quite - if a song is in the Top 10 then of course it should be played in the Top 10 radio show!

Of course, that doesn't mean there has to be anything during that show that explains why the song is in the Top 10, barring the obvious "because it sold more copies". They never see the need to explain what the latest ear-assaulter from Jessie J or One Direction says about society, do they?

In today's Times 2, Caitlin Moran reports from the nether reaches of Twitter and Harry Styles' feed.

Harry tweets "RIP Baroness Thatcher", to which the first four responses are:
"Is he your friend?"
"May he rest in peace amen."
"Is market thatcher somthing to do with our queen?"
"Who?"

[edit. bad apostrophe.]

[ 12. April 2013, 23:41: Message edited by: Mad Cat ]

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Weird and sweary.

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L'organist
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# 17338

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quote:
originally posted by John D. Ward
Originally posted by John D. Ward: A public statement on the press response by one of our regular posters here:

Pete Broadbent as reported by Daily Telegraph

Any thoughts ?

1. Entirely predictable.

2. Peter Broadbent, as ever, unable to wear the right "hat" when asked for his comments on the death of Baroness Thatcher.

Pete - the clue was in the fact that the journo called you "bishop" - they weren't after your "councillor" opinion.

3. Two years have elapsed since this prat put his foot in it over the wedding of the Duke & Duchess of Cambridge and yet he seems to have learned nothing of either discretion or common-sense.

4. As for his "support" for Glenda Jackson: the woman deserves to burn in hell if for no other reason than a mental picture of her naked rolling around on the floor of a railway carriage compartment has rendered whole swathes of Tchaikovsky unlistenable for thousands.

Bottom line: many people in the pews find bishops expounding ill-conceived rubbish like this irritating, even offensive.

Journo friends tell me the opinion in the news room is that in Pete they have the best "mad bishop" rent-a-quote to have come from the Church of England since David Jenkins stint at Durham... and he's definitely the go-to foot-in-mouth merchant of choice now Rowan has gone, not least because, even with some of his more startling pronouncements Rowan's opinions were always thought through, whereas with Pete... As one gleeful sub-ed said, "its great, like asking a big kid". I rest my case.

[ 13. April 2013, 10:44: Message edited by: L'organist ]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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QLib

Bad Example
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
As for his "support" for Glenda Jackson: the woman deserves to burn in hell if for no other reason than a mental picture of her naked rolling around on the floor of a railway carriage compartment has rendered whole swathes of Tchaikovsky unlistenable for thousands.

There's a knack to using hyperbole in a way that makes it amusing or effective, and you ain't got it. How do I know? Because I have lots of friends who agree with me. I rest my case. [Roll Eyes]

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Glenda Jackson: the woman deserves to burn in hell if for no other reason than a mental picture of her naked rolling around on the floor of a railway carriage compartment has rendered whole swathes of Tchaikovsky unlistenable for thousands.

I resent that remark [Razz]

Ms jackson's performance in in the film adaptation of D.H. Lawrence's Women in Love was responsible for my first orgasam . Respect to the lady.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:


Ms jackson's performance in in the film adaptation of D.H. Lawrence's Women in Love was responsible for my first orgasam . Respect to the lady.

TMI!! [Eek!]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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No no no! OrgaSAM. Totally different.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Snap Poll: hands up who votes I close this thread right now?

Either before it gets any more weird, or for some of you before it gets any less weird. Or nostalgic.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Anglican't
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quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
No no no! OrgaSAM. Totally different.

I assumed that the rekindled memory caused the hands to quiver while typing.
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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Quotes file for Anglican't. [Big Grin]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Gamaliel
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# 812

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Ok, so I like the Beeb and their Reithian liberalism sits well with me. They're only 'left leaning' if one dresses oneself (ahem!) to the right.

I could show you Facebook rants by some of my more lefty contacts which would make you think that the Beeb was the Daily Mail.

It's all a matter of perspective.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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rolyn
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# 16840

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[Big Grin]
Please don't close the thread on account of my lapse into TMI Orfeo . I'm not out to derail , just don't like Glenda dis-ed .
Seeing her performance in the HofC the other day , didn't move me in quite the same way but it's nice to see she hasn't lost her passion.

Like I said elsewhere I'm neutral on Thatcher . Clearly a lot of folk have bitterness about her and having her dead will hopefully put a line under that.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
didn't move me in quite the same way

Oh thanks. That really helped.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Journo friends tell me the opinion in the news room is that in Pete they have the best "mad bishop" rent-a-quote to have come from the Church of England since David Jenkins stint at Durham...

Glad to hear it.+Pete is in good company - Jenkins was one of the few who could be articulate against thatcher.

Pete speaks for he in many ways.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Clearly a lot of folk have bitterness about her and having her dead will hopefully put a line under that.

Not likely, not if the past is of any guide.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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rolyn
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# 16840

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If someone wants to blame everything wrong in the world post May 1979 on M.T. then that's up to them .
If we're talking about bitterness specific to pit closures etc. then my advice is to dump it in her grave rather than take it to your own.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Clearly a lot of folk have bitterness about her and having her dead will hopefully put a line under that.

Not likely, not if the past is of any guide.
I have to agree with lilBuddha. A lot of "Thatcherism" was of Keith Joseph, Enoch Powell, Cecil Parkinson and others, some of whom were more ideologically motivated than Thatcher. She had much more to do with sweeping away or minimising the influence of 'the Wets' in her cabinet, such as Pym and Carrington (and possibly Heseltine too), but that's because she was very much one for dealing with people, and most of her battles were with carefully identified and suitably demonised people, such as Galtieri, Scargill, Ken Livingstone or trade unionists.

That isn't going to go away with the death of a lady who hasn't been in power for over twenty years.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Evangeline
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# 7002

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To those people who are so petty and mean spirited to dance on the grave of somebody who left office 20 years ago I say:

HA HA HA, you're a bunch of sore losers. You haven't achieved much to create the sort of society YOU claim you'd like to see so the best you can do to make a contribution to society is to crow about the death from natural causes of an 87 yo woman. PATHETIC. Yet MT's legacy lives on in the UK, she has the last laugh.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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You really, really don't understand what it's all about, do you?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:

HA HA HA, you're a bunch of sore losers. You haven't achieved much to create the sort of society YOU claim you'd like to see so the best you can do to make a contribution to society is to crow about the death from natural causes of an 87 yo woman. PATHETIC. Yet MT's legacy lives on in the UK, she has the last laugh.

The very type of triumphalism , typical of Thatcher herself, that has caused the grave-dancing methinks.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Gamaliel
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# 812

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I thought Graham Dow was the one for mad bishop rent-a-quotes ... demons being passed up men's arses during acts of homosexual sex, for instance ... the floods in Cumbria in 2009 being some kind of sign of divine displeasure at the government of Gordon Brown ...

So why didn't the Almighty send a tsunami up the Thames to flood the House of Commons rather than rains to the Lake District to wash away a bridge and the hapless copper who died valiantly trying to stop motorists from using it ...

I hope the retired Bishop had a reasonable explanation for that man's family ...

[Mad]

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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John D. Ward
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# 1378

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Another episcopal view on the issue:

The Bishop of Grantham, as reported by the Daily Telegraph

[ 14. April 2013, 19:37: Message edited by: John D. Ward ]

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Evangeline
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# 7002

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:

HA HA HA, you're a bunch of sore losers. You haven't achieved much to create the sort of society YOU claim you'd like to see so the best you can do to make a contribution to society is to crow about the death from natural causes of an 87 yo woman. PATHETIC. Yet MT's legacy lives on in the UK, she has the last laugh.

The very type of triumphalism , typical of Thatcher herself, that has caused the grave-dancing methinks.
Exactly [Roll Eyes] and it's the same sort of triumphalism being exhibited by those celebrating Thatcher's death, which is even less warranted because they did nothing to bring it about.
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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Just checking to see if she's still dead. I hope someone will be around with garlic - it would be awkward if she rose during the funeral service.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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But it would suit the question re "the other place" in the resulting MW report.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
it's the same sort of triumphalism being exhibited by those celebrating Thatcher's death, which is even less warranted because they did nothing to bring it about.

What? You're saying we ought to have assassinated her?
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Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
it's the same sort of triumphalism being exhibited by those celebrating Thatcher's death, which is even less warranted because they did nothing to bring it about.

What? You're saying we ought to have assassinated her?
You could at least have tried.

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Still pretty Amazing, but no longer Mavis.

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Evangeline
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# 7002

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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
it's the same sort of triumphalism being exhibited by those celebrating Thatcher's death, which is even less warranted because they did nothing to bring it about.

What? You're saying we ought to have assassinated her?
Well at least it would have given the parties some sort of justification.
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Amos

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# 44

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Now that I think of it, the list of Bishops of Willesden does seem to contain a few chaps who've been quoted in the papers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_of_Willesden

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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken

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Mad Cat
Shipmate
# 9104

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quote:
Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
it's the same sort of triumphalism being exhibited by those celebrating Thatcher's death, which is even less warranted because they did nothing to bring it about.

What? You're saying we ought to have assassinated her?
You could at least have tried.
Forgetting the IRA?

Poor taste, even for Hell.

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Weird and sweary.

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