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Source: (consider it) Thread: Ugh
Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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In the aftermath of this murder there have been calls to revive the Communications Data Bill, which would permit the government and its agencies to monitor internet use by its citizens, in the hope that it would prevent similar events in future.

On the other hand, the murder suspects were already known to the security services, which makes me wonder if anything will be gained by having even more information and possibly identifying more threats. Maybe the existence of blanket monitoring would give false comfort.

David Cameron has alredy stated that Britain will not give in to terrorists. Wouldn't extra legislation, passed in the heat of the moment in reaction to a particular act, be just that? I'm sure that if the legislation were to have been proposed by the European Commission those who are in favour of it would oppose it bitterly!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
moron
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# 206

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What struck me about all this is that there are many able bodied men standing around watching people who have just cleaved someone to death, doing nothing.

I suppose it might have been the proper thing to do. [Paranoid]

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by moron:
What struck me about all this is that there are many able bodied men standing around watching people who have just cleaved someone to death, doing nothing.

OK, you come face to face with a murderer, armed with a cleaver dripping blood plus knives. Are you going to try to disarm him? If so, how?
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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
What struck me about all this is that there are many able bodied men standing around watching people who have just cleaved someone to death, doing nothing.

OK, you come face to face with a murderer, armed with a cleaver dripping blood plus knives. Are you going to try to disarm him? If so, how?
Don't be silly Ariel. Moron would shoot the murderer dead, and then probably go straight to a church and thank God for finally giving him the chance to do so.

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Anglican't
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# 15292

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
While a significant portion of the established church in this country is still ranting about not letting gay people marry or women be bishops we're in no position to be telling any other religion about equality. How can we talk about the mote in their eye while we've got a whole garden shed in our own?

Doesn't it depend on what's being said? Saying 'marriage is between a man and a woman' is not the same thing as saying 'homosexuals should be thrown from mountain tops', is it?
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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Doesn't it depend on what's being said? Saying 'marriage is between a man and a woman' is not the same thing as saying 'homosexuals should be thrown from mountain tops', is it?

Inequality is inequality. It doesn't matter how polite you are about it.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Anglican't
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# 15292

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So there's no real moral difference in the views of, say, Justin Welby and Yusuf al-Qaradawi in your mind?
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

If any off-shoot of a christian organisation - however far from the mainstream - came out with the kind of inflammatory statements that are trotted out by some muslim organisations they would be censured, perhaps prosecuted.

[Snore]

You poor persecutred Daily-Mail reader you.

Keep taking the Phillips Pills

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by moron:
What struck me about all this is that there are many able bodied men standing around watching people who have just cleaved someone to death, doing nothing.

I suppose it might have been the proper thing to do. [Paranoid]

The murderers didn't seem to be going anywhere. They were waiting for the police to come and kill them.

I guess they'll realise it all went wrong when they wake up in jail.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
What struck me about all this is that there are many able bodied men standing around watching people who have just cleaved someone to death, doing nothing.

OK, you come face to face with a murderer, armed with a cleaver dripping blood plus knives. Are you going to try to disarm him? If so, how?
Don't be silly Ariel. Moron would shoot the murderer dead, and then probably go straight to a church and thank God for finally giving him the chance to do so.
What would be the best gun for shooting the murderers dead with? Enquiring minds and all... [Biased]

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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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deano
princess
# 12063

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I am – as I’m sure most of you know –most assuredly not a pacifist. However I am also against the death penalty. It’s just wrong and doesn’t do anything except satisfy societies demand for revenge, and society can go and fuck itself if it wants to kill someone just to satiate it’s own urge for vengeance.

Even in this case I have no appetite for the death penalty.

What then is there?

Islamic terrorism can’t be prevented. The perpetrators will attack us in the west if we do nothing or do something; we can’t kill them because they (a) desire that in the name of their religion and (b) will only become martyrs.

What is needed is a punishment that will frighten the terrorists and is effective. What do the terrorists love the most? What will give them pause in their actions if they may lose what they love if caught? In my opinion it is their faith.

If found guilty in the courts, I would like to see, for Islamic terrorists and the people who assist them, not just a prison sentence, but also a forced conversion to Christianity.

I’m sure this won’t go down well with the Guardianistas around these parts, but I can live with that.

Muslims to don’t get involve with terrorism will continue with their faith without any problems.

Muslims who are considering becoming involved with Islamic terrorism will have to weigh up the consequences, that should they be caught, they will become apostates, be converted to Christianity and lose their faith in Islam. I think that will do it.

It could be done by denying them access to Islam in prison, and subjecting them to only Christian messages, only giving them the Bible to read, and only allowing them access to other Christians. Years of that will do the job.

That is the only real way we can attack these scum, by taking away the ONLY thing they care about… their faith.

[ 24. May 2013, 22:27: Message edited by: deano ]

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Alaric the Goth
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# 511

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
What struck me about all this is that there are many able bodied men standing around watching people who have just cleaved someone to death, doing nothing.

I suppose it might have been the proper thing to do. [Paranoid]

The murderers didn't seem to be going anywhere. They were waiting for the police to come and kill them.

I guess they'll realise it all went wrong when they wake up in jail.

They woke up in hospital. Which also might have provided a hint that 'it all went wrong'.
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
comet

Snowball in Hell
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Deano- you cant take away a person's faith. It is not a material thing. You can, however, marginalize and persecute followers of that faith enough to drive them to fundamentalist extremism.

I appreciate the thought that goes into your post- it would not work. And, it will create more extemists.

Besides, why Christianity? Why not Buddhism? Even better, Pastafarianism!

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

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deano
princess
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quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Deano- you cant take away a person's faith. It is not a material thing. You can, however, marginalize and persecute followers of that faith enough to drive them to fundamentalist extremism.

I appreciate the thought that goes into your post- it would not work. And, it will create more extemists.

Besides, why Christianity? Why not Buddhism? Even better, Pastafarianism!

Because the state religion in Britain is Anglicanism and I want to see more Christians in the world.

Sure you can take away someone's faith. Islam has a tradition of forced conversion. It works quite well.

Besides if you subject someone to Christianity for 24 hours a day for the full length of their term in prision, and make it so they have to convince a parole board of their conversion before being released then it seems to have legs. In fact, if they fail to continue their Christianity after being released from prison you could revoke their parole and return them back to prison.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Mad Cat
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# 9104

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You would use the faith of Jesus Christ as a punishment?

....as a punishment?

I wonder what Our Lord would think?

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Weird and sweary.

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deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Cat:
You would use the faith of Jesus Christ as a punishment?

....as a punishment?

I wonder what Our Lord would think?

No. To make them See the Light! If they commit evil acts then they are obviously in need of an introduction to Christ.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Mad Cat
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# 9104

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Cat:
You would use the faith of Jesus Christ as a punishment?

....as a punishment?

I wonder what Our Lord would think?

No. To make them See the Light! If they commit evil acts then they are obviously in need of an introduction to Christ.
A forced conversion and parole requirement sounds like punishment.

The idea that you can 'make' someone see the light is absurd.

I agree that an indtroduction to Christ would be good for these two men. Trouble is, they've already met Him a million time and failed to recognise Him. There's none so blind and all that.....

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Weird and sweary.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Forced conversion? [Projectile]

Besides, a man convinced against his will, and all that.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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deano
princess
# 12063

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To a muslin it may been seen as punitive. To a Christian it may be seen as bringing people to the Truth.

Besides, nothing else seems to work. Those Muslim terrorists will try to kill us whether we we leave them alone or not because they hate us on an ideological basis.

They want to convert us. Not the majority of muslims obviously, but the terrorists. That is their goal. I say let's use their weapon against them.

[ 25. May 2013, 00:08: Message edited by: deano ]

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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South Coast Kevin
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# 16130

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Forced conversion? [Projectile]

Besides, a man convinced against his will, and all that.

What she said.

Deano, welcome back to the Ship, but are you channelling the spirit of Torquemada, with this talk of removing people's Muslim faith and making them become Christians?

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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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And you would give every extremist group instant propaganda - I can see the slogans now - Muslim brothers forcibly converted! Say no to crusades! They would be like martyrs immediately.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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Evangeline
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# 7002

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by moron:
What struck me about all this is that there are many able bodied men standing around watching people who have just cleaved someone to death, doing nothing.

OK, you come face to face with a murderer, armed with a cleaver dripping blood plus knives. Are you going to try to disarm him? If so, how?
Although that woman who spoke to the murderers to distract them reportedly said that as a group it would have been easy to disarm the murderers. Newspaper report here
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Deano, welcome back to the Ship, but are you channelling the spirit of Torquemada, with this talk of removing people's Muslim faith and making them become Christians?

Wait, deano is being a douche on TWO hell threads? Geeze, take it easy man, you're going to sprain something.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Oh check his last four or five posts- he's a busy little bee tonight.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Oh check his last four or five posts- he's a busy little bee tonight.

Think I'll pass. Oh BTW your dialogue was very funny. [Big Grin]

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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deano:
quote:
They want to convert us. Not the majority of muslims obviously, but the terrorists. That is their goal. I say let's use their weapon against them.
I don't see Muslim terrorists as proselytizing types. More like "kill them all and let Allah sort them out" types.

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Cat:
You would use the faith of Jesus Christ as a punishment?

....as a punishment?

I wonder what Our Lord would think?

No. To make them See the Light! If they commit evil acts then they are obviously in need of an introduction to Christ.
I thought both of them were raised as Christians and converted to Islam in their teens? Indeed, one of them allegedly came from a "devout" Christian family.

Also, what is this
quote:
the state religion in Britain is Anglicanism
of which you speak? My part of Britain doesn't have an Established church, and our national church is not the Anglican church.
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Very good series of letters in today's Independent from Muslims condemning the attack.

High time too . Those who are planning and carrying out these attacks must be made to realise they are not doing it on behalf of anyone.

I still think religion is a red herring in these matters . This is the sort of thing that used to revolve around soccer violence . It's now taken on a life of it's own and has developed a warped political agenda .

The latest news about one of these perpatrators , was not only that he was known to MI5 but had also been asked to work for them [Confused]
I mean WTF is going on ?

[ 25. May 2013, 08:41: Message edited by: rolyn ]

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Cat:
You would use the faith of Jesus Christ as a punishment?

....as a punishment?

I wonder what Our Lord would think?

No. To make them See the Light! If they commit evil acts then they are obviously in need of an introduction to Christ.
Check out the history books. It's been tried. It's failed. Big time. Even zapping 'em with the sacrament of baptism didn't work! It's the heart of a person that needs converted and that is between that person and whatever higher power they believe in (if any).
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JoannaP
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# 4493

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What annoys me is the tabloids demanding "Why were they free to kill?". What part of "Because we live in a free and open society, not a police state" do they not understand?

If they want MI5 to have complete coverage of all the activities of all those on their books (which I believe is about 2,000 people), where should the funding come from? Increase taxes? Cut the NHS budget? The education budget?

I am rather startled but I agree totally with Eric Pickles .

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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

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Albertus
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# 13356

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:


The latest news about one of these perpatrators , was not only that he was known to MI5 but had also been asked to work for them [Confused]
I mean WTF is going on ?

Well, he said he had been asked to work for them. I haven't been following the story closely, largely because it makes me distressed and angry, but my first thought on seeing pictures of him at the scene of the crime was that he looked mentally unwell. I do rather wonder whether this is a case of someone who's mentally fragile and frustrated finding a cause to believe in - and unfortunately for all concerned, that cause was murderously militant Islam rather than, say, Scientology.
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The latest news about one of these perpatrators , was not only that he was known to MI5 but had also been asked to work for them [Confused]
I mean WTF is going on ?

Work for them as in turn up at their offices 9-5, Monday to Friday, or work for them as in receive money for providing information on people he was in contact with?

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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

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Forced conversion of adult Christians in the Ottoman empire didn't always take.

Neither have the Christians had much luck with forced converting of Jews. Even if the Jews are willing, initially.

When I read the suggestion above, my little bullshit meter was going Ding a ling. Dingbat post. Ding a ling

[ 25. May 2013, 10:20: Message edited by: PeteC ]

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Even more so than I was before

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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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I can just imagine the reaction of the various intelligence agencies, if they were told that forcible conversions were to be used. They would have a collective heart attack, as it's difficult to think of anything which Al Quaeda would like more. It would rival Guantanamo as a recruiting sergeant.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
Work for them as in turn up at their offices 9-5, Monday to Friday, or work for them as in receive money for providing information on people he was in contact with?

Well exactly . Either way this thing's already developing a bit of a whiff to cynics like myself.

I don't watch much televised news since all that WMD shit before the Iraq campaign , only put it on now and again when something like this happens . Yes, shocking and all that. However what we're looking at here is basically a street killing , not that uncommon to the UK sadly .

Playing devil's advocate, but.... , again, we see the propaganda machine go into overdrive . Pictures of a smiling young guy in regimental red , just a drummer . Not much footage of him on the end of a machine-gun in foreign lands dressed in battle fatigues.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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quote:
posted by rolyn
Playing devil's advocate, but.... , again, we see the propaganda machine go into overdrive . Pictures of a smiling young guy in regimental red , just a drummer . Not much footage of him on the end of a machine-gun in foreign lands dressed in battle fatigues.

Actually plenty of that in The Times; in any case, what have you against him in dress uniform?

No one is saying he was "just a drummer" since all military musicians are also required to have a second role; in time past this was usually as a medical orderly or as a clerk for the adjutant, but there is a limit to how many orderlies and clerks a regiment needs.

As for seeing him with a machine gun, as an infantryman he would have been armed with a standard rifle (possibly an M10).

In any case, for a soldier to carry a gun is nothing more than him having the tools of his trade.

I find your description of it being "basically a street killing" disturbing: any killing of a random stranger is appalling and, even on the rare occasions when this happens, on the whole the person is not hacked to death and the head then severed from the body.

@ Ken

I don't think I've ever read The Daily Mail and, since you seem to think it a less-than-quality publication, I'm happy to continue in ignorance of it.

What are Phillips Pills????

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
in any case, what have you against him in dress uniform?

I have nothing against him dressed in whatever . Some say he was wearing a 'Help the Heros' T-shirt at the time of the killing. Donations for H the H has since gone through the roof, proving once again that whatever these sort of actions hope to achieve they do the opposite.

This incident was meant to be disturbing . Likewise any attempt at trying to rationalise it will also come across as equally disturbing.

After 7/7 I felt ready to bust up a mosque . This time I do not and feel the better for it .
Cool heads are what's required . As was demonstrated by Ms Loyau-Kennett, and by thousands of our home-based service personnel who said no way would they cover up their uniforms because a knee-jerk reaction on Wednesday.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged
Callan
Shipmate
# 525

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Originally posted by Deano:

quote:
If found guilty in the courts, I would like to see, for Islamic terrorists and the people who assist them, not just a prison sentence, but also a forced conversion to Christianity.
The use of the Auto-da-Fe in the war against religious intolerance. I suppose you think that irony is like goldy but with iron and not gold?

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Cat:
You would use the faith of Jesus Christ as a punishment?

....as a punishment?

I wonder what Our Lord would think?

No. To make them See the Light! If they commit evil acts then they are obviously in need of an introduction to Christ.
Because, God knows, Christians never commit evil acts. [Roll Eyes]

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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Yes, well that's one reason why deano's suggestion is profoundly stupid, and here's another: (this is for deano's benefit, since I imagine most of the rest of us already know) conversion usually implies a turning of heart and mind, rather than saying you believe in something you don't believe in, in order to save your life or to purchase a (relatively) painless death. To our eternal shame, some Christians encouraged the latter, but less not's kid ourselves that there's any real meaning to such a conversion.

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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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While I can see what Deano means about trying to take away what the perpetrators hold most dear, I agree with everybody else that it isn't something that can actually be done (or that should even be attempted).

When I read what Adebolejo said about "an eye for an eye" the less reasonable side of my brain thought, "well, you won't mind being publicly beheaded then, will you?" Then I remembered that in the Civilised World we don't do that any more ...

It's interesting to note that, despite the fact that there were dozens of witnesses and there's no doubt whatsoever of the two men's guilt, the papers are still referring to them as the alleged killers. It's rather reassuring - the proof that in Britain you're still regarded as innocent until proven guilty.

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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It's also because if the media started referring to them as guilty, the barristers would be queuing up to take the case, as it would be a slam-dunk for a 'can't get a fair trial', and the barrister involved would make his name probably, and the guys would be released from prison, unless they got them on another charge.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by piglet:

When I read what Adebolejo said about "an eye for an eye" the less reasonable side of my brain thought, "well, you won't mind being publicly beheaded then, will you?"

No I expect they wouldn't. I'm sure they were waiting round for the police as they fully expected to be shot dead.

Martyrs to their 'cause'.

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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And the Al Quaeda central committee, or whatever they have, would dance for joy, if they were executed by any means at all. I think they're getting too much publicity as it is.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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As to the street killing idea, a friend of mine pointed out that we recently had a case involving a couple of young men who set out to kill a woman singer and behead her.
Joss Stone case

This obviously has similarities with what happened in Woolwich. Except the apparent motive.

Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I'm sure they were waiting round for the police as they fully expected to be shot dead.

Martyrs to their 'cause'.

All credit to the Police woman who denied them that 'honour' by aiming for the legs .
Possibly a new strategy on dealing with terrorists after the wrongful killing of that fellow following the 21/7 bombs which , thank God, failed to detonate.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It's also because if the media started referring to them as guilty, the barristers would be queuing up to take the case, as it would be a slam-dunk for a 'can't get a fair trial', and the barrister involved would make his name probably, and the guys would be released from prison, unless they got them on another charge.

Overwhelming proof of guilt is grounds for saying you can't get a fair trial?

Only in Britain [Disappointed]

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Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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No, saying that someone is guilty, before they have been found so. Judges really hate it.

'If media coverage pre-trial and during trial created a substantial risk of prejudice to the defendants, the convictions should be regarded as unsafe and quashed. The prejudice may be such that a re-trial is not possible because a fair trial cannot take place.'

[ 27. May 2013, 09:45: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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An interesting issue in relation to fair trials, concerns jurors researching on their own. There have been a few trials, where jurors dug up stuff on their own on the defendant, which seemed prejudicial, for example, that he had been previously acquitted of murdering his wife. A mistrial might be declared then, but a new trial would probably be ordered. I think some countries actually prohibit it, but in the UK, the judge just warns the jurors. Of course, some of them still do it, on the internet of course.

Also, in cases of extreme prejudice existing, I think a trial is actually illegal! I don't know if this has happened in recent history.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Overwhelming proof of guilt is grounds for saying you can't get a fair trial?

Only in Britain [Disappointed]

But guilty of what? If the newspapers scream 'murderer' and the defendants plead not guilty to murder but guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility or not guilty to murder on the grounds of insanity, then there are problems.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009  |  IP: Logged



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