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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Girl Guides and God - i smell a rat
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
One person mentions the "A" word and the thread goes clippety-clop, clippety-clop on the track that leads only to the knacker's yard.
There's no way this is going to return to Dead Horses (Louise and TonyK don't deserve it for a start), so please broaden the outlook of this thread. The OP had plenty of 'other' lines of argument, so use them.
In short, you're gonna have to think before you post. Aren't we bastards?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
My daughter is at Guides right now. She has promised a full and frank disclosure when she gets home. She says she'd welcome the introduction of depraved sex 'cos Strip Poker with the Scouts is getting tedious.
She's also pleased that the Wail is presenting Guiding in a more appealing light, unlike previous headlines "Campfire smoke gives you CANCER!" "'Smores give you CANCER" etc etc etc.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Would the Fail even know what smores are? I've never seen anyone in Britain actually eat them, I just know about them from pinterest....
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Things that we can rely on: death, taxes, the sun rising and Indifferently being offended sometime before breakfast about how the world has deteriorated since 1735.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Would the Fail even know what smores are? I've never seen anyone in Britain actually eat them, I just know about them from pinterest....
They were called smores when I was at Guides, and my daughter's Guides call them that, too.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Would the Fail even know what smores are? I've never seen anyone in Britain actually eat them, I just know about them from pinterest....
Alright you just proved that the Guides are satanic. Not only that but most of Britain is as well. Not eating or knowing what s'mores are is truly heretical.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Google says they involve Graham crackers, but we made them by heating a marshmallow over a campfire and squashing it between two chocolate digestive biscuits.
Sticky, melty, glorious.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Especially with artisan marshmallow, small batch chocolate and homemade grahams, drool
Best, post lesbian orgy snack ever!
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
Oops, cross posted you can exclude Scotland from my conclusion.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Would the Fail even know what smores are? I've never seen anyone in Britain actually eat them, I just know about them from pinterest....
They were called smores when I was at Guides, and my daughter's Guides call them that, too.
Clearly, some kind of Episcopalian conspiracy! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
Okay multiple cross posts. Jade is the only heretic and everybody is apparently trying to hide the fact that s'mores exists from her.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
If you make your s'mores with Hershey's, than I shall have to convert so that I may properly damn you to Hell.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Indeed, marriage with no contraception is a very, erm, fertile ground for almost continuous pregnancy and all that entails. With no need to act like sex crazed animals, unless you consider anything more often than once every few years as "sex crazed".
Lactational amenorrhea can easily result in a natural 2-4 year spacing between children.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Not necessarily. My grandmother thought she couldn't get pregnant when nursing, which is why her second child was born scarcely a year after the first.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Not necessarily. My grandmother thought she couldn't get pregnant when nursing, which is why her second child was born scarcely a year after the first.
Quite. "can". It varies a lot, depending on the woman, and on how much and how often the child nurses. I also understand that some women find it easy to tell when they have ovulated, but others find it difficult (so you might not get any warning of when it stops working).
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Not necessarily. My grandmother thought she couldn't get pregnant when nursing, which is why her second child was born scarcely a year after the first.
Quite. "can". It varies a lot, depending on the woman, and on how much and how often the child nurses. I also understand that some women find it easy to tell when they have ovulated, but others find it difficult (so you might not get any warning of when it stops working).
As Missus says in 101 Dalmations, how can you depend on something that depends?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Daughter is home from Guides. No depraved sex tonight, lesbian or otherwise. Perhaps it'll take another week for the new pro-abortion, pro-condoms, pro-depraved sex, left-wing, manifesto to be imposed at grass roots level.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I suspect that Indifferently doesn't like the idea of women/girls getting together somewhere doing stuff and talking about stuff where neither he, nor any other similar superior being can find out what it is.
Rather like the Roman emperors not liking people having dinner clubs, or Charlemagne not liking gilds, or Charles II not liking coffee shops. "It happens where I can't see or hear so it must be subversive or perverted, or in some other way WRONG."
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
As Missus says in 101 Dalmations, how can you depend on something that depends?
If you want to depend on it, I'd recommend additional measures. If you're just asking what the natural consequences of "marriage with no contraception" are, then averages and spread are more relevant.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
As Missus says in 101 Dalmations, how can you depend on something that depends?
If you want to depend on it, I'd recommend additional measures. If you're just asking what the natural consequences of "marriage with no contraception" are, then averages and spread are more relevant.
If the claim is made, You don't need "artificial" birth control when you're breastfeeding, then averages don't mean a thing; it's a lie.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
If the claim is made, You don't need "artificial" birth control when you're breastfeeding, then averages don't mean a thing; it's a lie.
Years ago I had a part-time job typing up research papers in reproductive biology. One was a study on the contraceptive effects of breast feeding, and the mechanisms (eg frequency of suckling, levels of various maternal hormones etc) whereby it was effective - or not.
I don't know where that line of research is at currently, but it tended to suggest that you could discover that.
But possibly the level of monitoring would be too intrusive, so practically you would have to recommend breast feeding+
[ 28. June 2013, 06:16: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
My nephew's wife is a midwife and thought when breastfeeding her first that she was safe - there are exactly 11 months between her first two!
Her response when finding herself pregnant with her second was suitably hellish but he has grown up into a lovely young man.
p.s. I don't think she was ever a Guide so never had the chance to experience Hot Lesbian Sex - pity that.
[ 28. June 2013, 08:18: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Let's suppose that a two year gap is on average created by lactation. That still means that a woman marrying at 25 in Indifferentlyland will quite possibly have a baby every two years from 25 to around 50, which is around 12 pregnancies.
Of course she probably won't; I know a number of women who after their third or fourth pregnancy would be in risk of their lives if they got pregnant again. What Indifferently's ideal would actually mean would be more deaths in childbirth, more orphans, more families stretched into poverty by the size of their families, and more coathanger jobs in the back alleys. It's not somewhere any rational person would want to go.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I forgot to mention - it does also guarantee that women will be pretty much forced into being housewives, since a good proportion of the time they'd be pregnant or nursing and it would be virtually impossible for both partners to work and also afford childcare. It's no mistake that the sorts of people who advocate this "morality" are also the ones who view feminism with disdain and rail against parents who use childcare so that both can have a career. It all fits together, and the picture it reveals is not a good one.
[ 28. June 2013, 08:30: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's interesting that capitalism has forced women into the workplace in many ways; so that conservatives are caught in a kind of trap, since most of them support capitalism, yet it has brought about this (partial) emancipation of women, which perhaps some of them fear and hate.
But I suppose there are Christian right-wingers who detest capitalism also, and yearn for some weird kind of pseudo-feudal regime, well, I'm not sure what it is really. The Nazis had similar yearnings, didn't they, OK, Godwin, etc.
Kinder, Küche, Kirche, (umlauts rule ök).
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
I think that there have traditionally been plenty of right-wingers* who detest capitalism, and most of those (who remain) are, I would have thought, likely to identify themselves as Christian. Capitalism- certainly neo-liberal Anglo-Saxon capitalism- almost by defintion challenges the kind of settled, hierarchical, but interdependent, relationships that underpin traditional conservatism.
There's a strong current of opposition to or at least scepticism about capitalism in a lot of traditional (Roman) Catholic thought; other positions which spring to mind are Southern Agrarianism and its heirs in the US, and the earlier C20 Green movement as developed by people like Lord Northbourne and Rolf Gardiner, and continued by e.g. Roger Scruton in the UK. Many of these certainly are or were neo-feudalists, but British one-nation Conservatism has accepted capitalism but always thought that it needed to be kept under tight control and subordinated to a wider notion of the common good: and as I think Adrian Hastings has pointed out, the British Conservative governments of the 1950s (which are seen as the epitome of this kind of Conservatism in the C20) were dominated by serious practising Anglicans like Macmillan, Heath, and Butler.
*If 'right wing' is taken as referring primarily to social rather than economic values.
[ 28. June 2013, 09:49: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
Ok, firstly there no contraceptive method that is one hundred percent foolproof. Even total abstinence has failed on one occasion.
So utilising breast feeding as contraception is a recognised form of contraception. It just has a high failure rate. But all forms have a failure rate.
Now, back to your bickering; so you can get your argumentative merit badge.
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
(muses on what a "depraved sex" badge might look like....) (wants to get one for camp blanket)
(tangent - any Guide person who wants to swop badges, pm me. I have swopsies!!)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Haydee
Shipmate
# 14734
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Posted
My (GG-belonging) daughter's prospective high school has a debating club - and wanted to know what 'debating' was...
So, given the connection between 'debating' and 'arguing', I am happy to report that arguing is part of the Commonwealth Award badge ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Not that she needs any encouragement...
Posts: 433 | Registered: Apr 2009
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Haydee
Shipmate
# 14734
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
(muses on what a "depraved sex" badge might look like....) (wants to get one for camp blanket)
(tangent - any Guide person who wants to swop badges, pm me. I have swopsies!!)
The winning entry will win the Very Graphic Designer badge...
Posts: 433 | Registered: Apr 2009
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Let's suppose that a two year gap is on average created by lactation. That still means that a woman marrying at 25 in Indifferentlyland will quite possibly have a baby every two years from 25 to around 50, which is around 12 pregnancies.
Of course she probably won't; I know a number of women who after their third or fourth pregnancy would be in risk of their lives if they got pregnant again. What Indifferently's ideal would actually mean would be more deaths in childbirth, more orphans, more families stretched into poverty by the size of their families, and more coathanger jobs in the back alleys. It's not somewhere any rational person would want to go.
Totally agree with that, but must add the issue once heavily hinted at as "women's troubles". My mother had a prolapse some time after the third of us, and it wasn't the worst sort.
I heard on the radio once, long ago, reference to aa report (possibly a Rowntree one) on women's lives in the East End of London. There the women were expected to submit to their drunken husbands every Friday night, even when they had such bad prolapses that they could hardly walk. Some had to go up and downstairs sitting, because they could not manage them standing. they were also expected to keep the place spotless (in the days of smokey fires, smoke from the trains and the power stations), do the laundry (in the days of coppers and mangles) and have a meal on the table for the male when he got home from work. I dare say these were exceptional cases, and there were loving relationships in those tiny terraces, but this is where masculism of Indifferently's sort leads for some, and enough women for it to be written up as a characteristic of an area. While they could be made pregnant, they were made pregnant, and one thing is fairly obvious, that the female human body is not made to bear multiple pregnancies. And it's no use looking at Genesis for an explanation, because that just makes God nasty.
Of course, in the past, many were not aware of this sort of appalling physical cost of pregnancy because of that coyness about "women's troubles", and now people are not aware because it is so much less frequent, so it might be possible to excuse Indifferently for his indifference to the tremendous amount of suffering his beliefs would be imposing, and which he would never himself experience.
[ 28. June 2013, 11:27: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
Ok, firstly there no contraceptive method that is one hundred percent foolproof. Even total abstinence has failed on one occasion.
So utilising breast feeding as contraception is a recognised form of contraception. It just has a high failure rate. But all forms have a failure rate.
But do you not see the difference between "has a failure rate" and "has a high failure rate"? If we're going to recommend a birth control method to someone who wants or needs birth control, shouldn't we be recommending ones with a low failure rate? (If only relatively so speaking?)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Daughter is home from Guides. No depraved sex tonight, lesbian or otherwise. Perhaps it'll take another week for the new pro-abortion, pro-condoms, pro-depraved sex, left-wing, manifesto to be imposed at grass roots level.
Sometimes I'm SO glad that my daughters joined the Scouts instead...
I don't like the new promise but more for its wishy-washy 'be true to my beliefs' approach than the exclusion of God. It sounds like management-speak taken to new heights (or depths) to avoid meaning anything. And while I'm sure that 'serving my community' made sense in the eyes of the writers as (cliché alert) helping little old ladies cross the road, the use of 'community' nowadays could mean it covers any number of things.
Perhaps the OP is right, and the new promise allows Guides to help the crazed lesbian community develop their baby-killing beliefs? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
Ok, firstly there no contraceptive method that is one hundred percent foolproof. Even total abstinence has failed on one occasion.
So utilising breast feeding as contraception is a recognised form of contraception. It just has a high failure rate. But all forms have a failure rate.
But do you not see the difference between "has a failure rate" and "has a high failure rate"? If we're going to recommend a birth control method to someone who wants or needs birth control, shouldn't we be recommending ones with a low failure rate? (If only relatively so speaking?)
Absolutely. I wouldn't recommend it alone unless the parents accepted they may become pregnant again utilising it. For parents planning multiple children, often the contraceptive approach is not actively trying as opposed to not actively preventing.
Nor do I recommend the Billng's method.
But neither are a lie.
[ 28. June 2013, 19:54: Message edited by: Patdys ]
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
But neither are a lie.
It depends on how honestly they are presented.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
I think you may be being a little dogmatic on this topic mousie. As I suspect so am I. There is probably a merit badge for that too.
right next to the Anal-Retentive Douchebag Badge.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Patdys:
I think you may be being a little dogmatic on this topic mousie.
On the topic of dishonestly presenting something as more efficacious as it really is? Yes, I am a little dogmatic on dishonesty. Mea culpa.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
(I would be interested to know how total abstinence failed once.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
(I would be interested to know how total abstinence failed once.)
I suspect it involved a girl named Mary who said she talked to angels. she said they all know her name.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
comet: I suspect it involved a girl named Mary
D'oh! Is that it?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Antisocial Alto
Shipmate
# 13810
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Really? Hitchens yearns for disgruntled Guides to quit and form a 'pro-Christian breakaway'.
*sigh* Of course- of course!- this has already happened in the States. They're called "American Heritage Girls". They claim to have been disappointed by the "increasing secular focus" of Scouting which I assume means environmentalism and Girl Power. (The Girl Scouts still promise to serve God and country, and they still can earn religious badges, but that's not good enough for some people...)
Posts: 601 | From: United States | Registered: Jun 2008
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squidgetsmum
Apprentice
# 17708
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Haydee:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by North East Quine:
[qb] (muses on what a "depraved sex" badge might look like....) (wants to get one for camp blanket)
It's gotta be party badge one, surely? I mean, there are parties and then there are parties..
Posts: 13 | Registered: May 2013
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
The Party badge involves a list of invitees and 3 different activities...Yup, you're right, it would be the Party badge.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
The Party badge involves a list of invitees and 3 different activities...Yup, you're right, it would be the Party badge.
If it involves the "Can I bring a friend?" question, that would be a very valuable badge.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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PataLeBon
Shipmate
# 5452
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Posted
Well, darn...the Girl Scouts of the USA isn't anywhere near as deprived...
We still have God in the promise and don't have a party badge at any level. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
We do have a badge for using good manners with strangers (Brownie) and one for having a dinner party (Ambassador).
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That's between you and your god. Oh, wait a minute. You are your god. That's a problem. - Jack O'Neill (Stargate SG1)
Posts: 1907 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) Good grief, I HAVE the Depraved Sex badge and never knew it until now! Except in my day it was called the Hostess Badge...
(this seems to be turning into a Circus thread)
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Good grief, I HAVE the Depraved Sex badge and never knew it until now! Except in my day it was called the Hostess Badge...
Obviously there are some usages of 'Hostess' with which Senior Guiding circles were unfamiliar.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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squidgetsmum
Apprentice
# 17708
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Posted
Shit, me too!
Grooming. By God, we really are depraved...
Posts: 13 | Registered: May 2013
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