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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Episcopal Church
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
OK, so what's the body of those who follow Christ supposed to look like? I noticed you used the singular for "body" - not bodies?
I'd start with the metaphors used in the New Testament - body, family, holy nation, royal priesthood and probably others I've forgotten. The NT writers surely could have described all the Christians across the world in explicitly institutional terms, but they chose not to. Extending the argument a bit, they also failed to use explicitly priestly words to describe church leaders, instead using mundane words like 'overseer', 'servant' and 'older man'.
I think if the NT writers wanted to tell us that God's faithful under the new covenant were to be organised in a similar way to old covenant Isreal, then they would have used very different terms to those we find in the NT. So I outright reject the notion that the body of those who follow Christ is supposed to be an institution.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
...Asking "Am I one of the arseholes?" could only do some people some good.
Are you then?
Probably. At least some of the time. You?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
...Asking "Am I one of the arseholes?" could only do some people some good.
Are you then?
Probably. At least some of the time. You?
Nope. Not me.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
...futilely...
Is that a word???
I don't wait for other people to make words, I make my own.
It's an adverb.*
(*OED take note)
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
In your dreams, Bettsy.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
...Asking "Am I one of the arseholes?" could only do some people some good.
Are you then?
Probably. At least some of the time. You?
Nope. Not me.
Yes you are, Mark. Very much so. In so many different ways. Total and utter arsehole. You could teach postgraduates at the Institute of Advanced Arsehole Studies. You are more full of shit than the Delhi sewer network. Sir Mix-a-lot wants to write a whole album of songs about the area immediately surrounding you. You could not be more obviously and blatantly an arsehole if you changed your name to Sphincter McAnus.
You are an arsehole.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
Quotes file.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Quotes file.
It probably took him most of the afternoon to compose that, so let him have his little moment of glory.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
Quotes file.
It probably took him most of the afternoon to compose that, so let him have his little moment of glory.
He might have taken some time to compose. You could take a lesson here as you do not appear to think at all before posting.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
It probably took him most of the afternoon to compose that
The post I was replying to was posted at 13:37, my post was at 14:16. So the maximum amount of time it could have taken me if I'd seen your post immediately after you posted it (which I didn't) is 39 minutes. Hardly "most of the afternoon".
Arsehole.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
I think he's referring to Rev 2:5
Surely he's not because in the book of Revelation (if taken literally) Jesus did nothing but reveal to a singular person.
Part of that revelation was specific instruction as to what should be done with that revelation. John was told to write down what the Holy Spirit had to say to the seven churches on behalf of the risen Christ.
My issue is only with the part where you said Jesus did something that Jesus did not do. Is it something everybody can learn from? Yes. However, if you want to start telling people what is in the bible please do not add unnecessary events. If you choose to do so I will assume you may not have enough faith in the bible to back your argument.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
King Henry V111
Ah yes, the robot model.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Evensong, it's very difficult to give cogent replies to incoherent questions. Debating with you is like holding a conversation with Roger Irrelevant: completely hatstand.
I see what you did there.
Methinks you should be renamed The Artful Dodger.
People don't debate with you daronmedway, they just ask questions and listen futilely will you have a one sided conversation with yourself.
Evensong, take a look at these two sentences.
You're not answering my question.
You're not saying what I want.
Those two sentences mean two different things.
Just sayin'.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
I think he's referring to Rev 2:5
Surely he's not because in the book of Revelation (if taken literally) Jesus did nothing but reveal to a singular person.
Part of that revelation was specific instruction as to what should be done with that revelation. John was told to write down what the Holy Spirit had to say to the seven churches on behalf of the risen Christ.
My issue is only with the part where you said Jesus did something that Jesus did not do. Is it something everybody can learn from? Yes. However, if you want to start telling people what is in the bible please do not add unnecessary events. If you choose to do so I will assume you may not have enough faith in the bible to back your argument.
Jesus warned an apostate church that it was in danger of having him remove it's lamp-stand. I've added nothing.
Oh, and I don't have any faith in the bible.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
daronmedway, you alone on this thread have used the elliptical metaphor removal of a church's lampstand.
Can you explicate it for us?
I'm quite sure I don't know what it means.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
Sure.
I think, the lamp-stand is the life giving presence of Christ by his Holy Spirit. The removal of that lamp-stand from it's place is Christ himself removing his spiritual presence from that church. This removal would mark the end of Christ's recognition of that church as a church which requires (or indeed desires) the light of his countenance.
With the removal of Christ's light-giving (and life-giving) presence that church can no longer be counted as a faithful witness to Christ in its generation. It will have no enlightening power. No one will meet Christ through its attempts at witness and it's attempts at teaching will lack any illumination by the Holy Spirit.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Jesus warned an apostate church that it was in danger of having him remove it's lamp-stand. I've added nothing.
Oh, and I don't have any faith in the bible.
I am quite sure we have a different understanding of the context of the book of Revelation.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Jesus warned an apostate church that it was in danger of having him remove it's lamp-stand. I've added nothing.
Oh, and I don't have any faith in the bible.
I am quite sure we have a different understanding of the context of the book of Revelation.
It's highly likely. Perhaps we should try to establish whose understanding is correct. If you show me yours, I'll show you mine.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Jesus warned an apostate church that it was in danger of having him remove it's lamp-stand. I've added nothing.
Oh, and I don't have any faith in the bible.
I am quite sure we have a different understanding of the context of the book of Revelation.
It's highly likely. Perhaps we should try to establish whose understanding is correct. If you show me yours, I'll show you mine.
Since I don't think any body including myself understands the book of Revelation, I doubt we will be able to come into agreement on whose understanding is correct.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
I think, the lamp-stand is the life giving presence of Christ by his Holy Spirit. The removal of that lamp-stand from it's place is Christ himself removing his spiritual presence from that church. This removal would mark the end of Christ's recognition of that church as a church which requires (or indeed desires) the light of his countenance.
With the removal of Christ's light-giving (and life-giving) presence that church can no longer be counted as a faithful witness to Christ in its generation. It will have no enlightening power. No one will meet Christ through its attempts at witness and it's attempts at teaching will lack any illumination by the Holy Spirit.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Jesus warned an apostate church that it was in danger of having him remove it's lamp-stand. I've added nothing.
Oh, and I don't have any faith in the bible.
I am quite sure we have a different understanding of the context of the book of Revelation.
It's highly likely. Perhaps we should try to establish whose understanding is correct. If you show me yours, I'll show you mine.
Since I don't think any body including myself understands the book of Revelation, I doubt we will be able to come into agreement on whose understanding is correct.
I guess that's conversation over then. But for what's it's worth I prefer my way of not understanding it to yours! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
I think, the lamp-stand is the life giving presence of Christ by his Holy Spirit. The removal of that lamp-stand from it's place is Christ himself removing his spiritual presence from that church. This removal would mark the end of Christ's recognition of that church as a church which requires (or indeed desires) the light of his countenance.
With the removal of Christ's light-giving (and life-giving) presence that church can no longer be counted as a faithful witness to Christ in its generation. It will have no enlightening power. No one will meet Christ through its attempts at witness and it's attempts at teaching will lack any illumination by the Holy Spirit.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
What's your view?
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Sure.
I think, the lamp-stand is the life giving presence of Christ by his Holy Spirit. The removal of that lamp-stand from it's place is Christ himself removing his spiritual presence from that church. This removal would mark the end of Christ's recognition of that church as a church which requires (or indeed desires) the light of his countenance.
With the removal of Christ's light-giving (and life-giving) presence that church can no longer be counted as a faithful witness to Christ in its generation. It will have no enlightening power. No one will meet Christ through its attempts at witness and it's attempts at teaching will lack any illumination by the Holy Spirit.
Of course, the only church threatened with lampstand removal is Ephesus, which has fallen off a bit in its initial fervor but is mostly praised otherwise. Pergamum has some who worship Balaam, and some Nicolaitans, but it isn't threatened with delampstanding. Thyateira tolerates the false prophet Jezebel, but isn't delampstanded. Laodicea is lukewarm and about to be spit out, but has its lampstand intact. So why only the one?
And no, it's not that these other ones don't have a lampstand in the first place: there are clearly seven golden lampstands.
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
The sin of the church of Ephesus is that while they are a proud, hardworking, doctrinally correct church adept at detecting and removing heresy, they have forgotten love's tune.
‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance. I know that you cannot tolerate evildoers; you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them to be false. I also know that you are enduring patiently and bearing up for the sake of my name, and that you have not grown weary. But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember then from what you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first.
They sing love's words, without love's tune. They are the clanging gong St Paul speaks of.
1 Corinthians 13.2: And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
So daronmedway, you can take your doctrinally correct statements and shove them up your ass.
[ 19. July 2013, 12:30: Message edited by: Evensong ]
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Sure.
I think, the lamp-stand is the life giving presence of Christ by his Holy Spirit. The removal of that lamp-stand from it's place is Christ himself removing his spiritual presence from that church. This removal would mark the end of Christ's recognition of that church as a church which requires (or indeed desires) the light of his countenance.
With the removal of Christ's light-giving (and life-giving) presence that church can no longer be counted as a faithful witness to Christ in its generation. It will have no enlightening power. No one will meet Christ through its attempts at witness and it's attempts at teaching will lack any illumination by the Holy Spirit.
Of course, the only church threatened with lampstand removal is Ephesus, which has fallen off a bit in its initial fervor but is mostly praised otherwise. Pergamum has some who worship Balaam, and some Nicolaitans, but it isn't threatened with delampstanding. Thyateira tolerates the false prophet Jezebel, but isn't delampstanded. Laodicea is lukewarm and about to be spit out, but has its lampstand intact. So why only the one?
And no, it's not that these other ones don't have a lampstand in the first place: there are clearly seven golden lampstands.
The pattern of Christ's address for each of the 7 churches is largely the same.
There is:
1) A description of Christ (based on the one in opening Chapter)
2) A commendation (except Laodicea)
3) A diagnostic rebuke (except Smyrna and Philadelphia)
4) A prescription
5) A prognosis if disobedient (except Smyrna and Philadelphia)
6) A promise for conquerors
The question I'd to ask is which of those 6 elements can or indeed should be understood as universal in application?
I ask because if we are going to claim any of the promises in these chapters we should carefully weigh up whether we are prepared to accept the threats.
[ 19. July 2013, 13:31: Message edited by: daronmedway ]
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
The sin of the church of Ephesus is that while they are a proud, hardworking, doctrinally correct church adept at detecting and removing heresy, they have forgotten love's tune.
‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance. I know that you cannot tolerate evildoers; you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them to be false. I also know that you are enduring patiently and bearing up for the sake of my name, and that you have not grown weary. But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember then from what you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first.
They sing love's words, without love's tune. They are the clanging gong St Paul speaks of.
1 Corinthians 13.2: And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
So daronmedway, you can take your doctrinally correct statements and shove them up your ass.
How loving.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Sure.
I think, the lamp-stand is the life giving presence of Christ by his Holy Spirit. The removal of that lamp-stand from it's place is Christ himself removing his spiritual presence from that church. This removal would mark the end of Christ's recognition of that church as a church which requires (or indeed desires) the light of his countenance.
With the removal of Christ's light-giving (and life-giving) presence that church can no longer be counted as a faithful witness to Christ in its generation. It will have no enlightening power. No one will meet Christ through its attempts at witness and it's attempts at teaching will lack any illumination by the Holy Spirit.
Of course, the only church threatened with lampstand removal is Ephesus, which has fallen off a bit in its initial fervor but is mostly praised otherwise. Pergamum has some who worship Balaam, and some Nicolaitans, but it isn't threatened with delampstanding. Thyateira tolerates the false prophet Jezebel, but isn't delampstanded. Laodicea is lukewarm and about to be spit out, but has its lampstand intact. So why only the one?
And no, it's not that these other ones don't have a lampstand in the first place: there are clearly seven golden lampstands.
The pattern of Christ's address for each of the 7 churches is largely the same.
There is:
1) A description of Christ (based on the one in opening Chapter)
2) A commendation (except Laodicea)
3) A diagnostic rebuke (except Smyrna and Philadelphia)
4) A prescription
5) A prognosis if disobedient (except Smyrna and Philadelphia)
6) A promise for conquerors
The question I'd to ask is which of those 6 elements can or indeed should be understood as universal in application?
I ask because if we are going to claim any of the promises in these chapters we should carefully weigh up whether we are prepared to accept the threats.
Oh for goodness sake! Don't be so damn literal. These diagnoses and prescriptions are issued by the writer of the Revelation, pretensing to speak for Christ; not by Our Lord his own good self. Pity that Luther didn't succeed in his ambition to get that weirdo book thrown out of the Canon, along with the Epistle of James.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
Sure.
I think, the lamp-stand is the life giving presence of Christ by his Holy Spirit. The removal of that lamp-stand from it's place is Christ himself removing his spiritual presence from that church. This removal would mark the end of Christ's recognition of that church as a church which requires (or indeed desires) the light of his countenance.
With the removal of Christ's light-giving (and life-giving) presence that church can no longer be counted as a faithful witness to Christ in its generation. It will have no enlightening power. No one will meet Christ through its attempts at witness and it's attempts at teaching will lack any illumination by the Holy Spirit.
Of course, the only church threatened with lampstand removal is Ephesus, which has fallen off a bit in its initial fervor but is mostly praised otherwise. Pergamum has some who worship Balaam, and some Nicolaitans, but it isn't threatened with delampstanding. Thyateira tolerates the false prophet Jezebel, but isn't delampstanded. Laodicea is lukewarm and about to be spit out, but has its lampstand intact. So why only the one?
And no, it's not that these other ones don't have a lampstand in the first place: there are clearly seven golden lampstands.
The pattern of Christ's address for each of the 7 churches is largely the same.
There is:
1) A description of Christ (based on the one in opening Chapter)
2) A commendation (except Laodicea)
3) A diagnostic rebuke (except Smyrna and Philadelphia)
4) A prescription
5) A prognosis if disobedient (except Smyrna and Philadelphia)
6) A promise for conquerors
The question I'd to ask is which of those 6 elements can or indeed should be understood as universal in application?
I ask because if we are going to claim any of the promises in these chapters we should carefully weigh up whether we are prepared to accept the threats.
Oh for goodness sake! Don't be so damn literal.
Are you using the word literal in the sense of reading the words? Or are you suggesting that I try reading the words in a different way?
As for the idea that the author of Revelation is merely pretending to have heard from Jesus Christ, then I'd have to ask for strong evidence in support of that claim.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
How loving.
Oh but I merely speak the truth of the Gospel so that you may repent of your sin and not have your lampstand removed.
Scripture shall not be denied after all.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
These diagnoses and prescriptions are issued by the writer of the Revelation, pretensing to speak for Christ; not by Our Lord his own good self.
Ok, on that basis, I'm ditching the Beatitudes too, as they're quiet clearly written by St Matthew or whoever wrote his Gospel pretending to speak for Christ and not by Our Lord Himself; fuck all that 'love your enemies' and 'turn the other cheek' crap.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
How loving.
Oh but I merely speak the truth of the Gospel so that you may repent of your sin and not have your lampstand removed.
Scripture shall not be denied after all.
Roger "Evensong" Irrelevant and the Lampstand
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Regular viewers will be aware that I'm a long way from being an Eversnog groupie, but at the risk of damning with faint praise, Numpty, she's making as much sense as you are.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
Why you old devil. She should be flattered.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
These diagnoses and prescriptions are issued by the writer of the Revelation, pretensing to speak for Christ; not by Our Lord his own good self.
Ok, on that basis, I'm ditching the Beatitudes too, as they're quiet clearly written by St Matthew or whoever wrote his Gospel pretending to speak for Christ and not by Our Lord Himself; fuck all that 'love your enemies' and 'turn the other cheek' crap.
That content of the synoptic gospels represents the teachings of Jesus - assuming that one at least believes in an historical Jesus of Nazareth who had a career as an itinerant rabbi; the same cannot be said for the Revelation, which presents itself as an hallucinogenic vision, and which fits into a particular tradition of visionary, apocolyptic writing. Even some fundies agree that it was written as an encouragement to the early Church that was starting to fall under persecution by the authorities of the Roman Empire.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Hmmm...I really don't think we can be that free and easy about which bits of Holy Scripture we like and which we don't...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I really don't think we can be that free and easy about which bits of Holy Scripture we like and which we don't...
That's good. Can I have your prawns?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I really don't think we can be that free and easy about which bits of Holy Scripture we like and which we don't...
The Church created the scriptural canon. The Church can just as well take the Revelation out and put the Gospel of Thomas in.
I'm an Episcopalian -- can you tell ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif) Now go fuck off.
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I really don't think we can be that free and easy about which bits of Holy Scripture we like and which we don't...
The Church created the scriptural canon. The Church can just as well take the Revelation out and put the Gospel of Thomas in.
I'm an Episcopalian -- can you tell Now go fuck off.
What do you mean "created"? Yes, there was discussion concerning certain books etc. but it was essentially custom which determined the custom as in, these are the books that are read in the Churches because they are recognised has being Apostolic and inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I really don't think we can be that free and easy about which bits of Holy Scripture we like and which we don't...
The Church created the scriptural canon. The Church can just as well take the Revelation out and put the Gospel of Thomas in.
I'm an Episcopalian -- can you tell Now go fuck off.
And you can keep whispering your σκότος Ἱλαρόν with the rest of TEC. I'm out.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I really don't think we can be that free and easy about which bits of Holy Scripture we like and which we don't...
That's good. Can I have your prawns?
Karl, that dog won't hunt. Acts 15 is Scripture as well.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I really don't think we can be that free and easy about which bits of Holy Scripture we like and which we don't...
The Church created the scriptural canon. The Church can just as well take the Revelation out and put the Gospel of Thomas in.
I'm an Episcopalian -- can you tell Now go fuck off.
And you can keep whispering your σκότος Ἱλαρόν with the rest of TEC. I'm out.
daronmedway:
Don't be a numpty all your life. You've been around enough in various incarnations to know that foreign phrases not in common use should be translated. Do so. Let not your brain be empty.
PeteC
Hell Host
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Even more so than I was before
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Hmmm...I really don't think we can be that free and easy about which bits of Holy Scripture we like and which we don't...
The Church created the scriptural canon. The Church can just as well take the Revelation out and put the Gospel of Thomas in.
I'm an Episcopalian -- can you tell Now go fuck off.
And you can keep whispering your σκότος Ἱλαρόν with the rest of TEC. I'm out.
Skotos Hilaron meaning Hail Gladdening Darkness which is a play on words from Phos Hilaron Φῶς Ἱλαρόν meaning Hail Gladdening Light which is a hymn to Christ, who is the light of the Father's countenance. Seeing that we're talking about light and all that.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Seeing as daronmedway is already pretty far up his own arse - let's use the correct terminology - then there wouldn't be much room for his apparently correct doctrinal formulae in those infernal nether-regions ...
I'm not sure who would win the race to get the furthest fastest up their own backsides on this thread. There are plenty of contenders.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
Got to admit it. It's pretty dark in here, Gamaliel. Now, where is that lamp-stand?
[ 19. July 2013, 17:40: Message edited by: daronmedway ]
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
I for one am somewhat hyperbolising to make a point. However, I take it that Numpty and Co. don't believe in "higher criticism" of the Church's received scriptural canon. My own view is that these texts are best engaged in a way similar to that employed in Reform Judaism with respect to Torah.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
I take it that Numpty and Co. don't believe in "higher criticism" of the Church's received scriptural canon.
No, and never will.
[ 19. July 2013, 17:44: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
Since you choose to live in the Dark Ages, I damn well hope you can find a lamp-stand.
A light in the darkness, me old mucker! A light in the darkness. I choose to believe in the integrity of the holy scriptures as inspired by the Holy Spirit rather than subject then to the "wisdom" of unbelievers (by that I mean modern scholarship).
[ 19. July 2013, 18:03: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
Yes, go right ahead and make an idol out of your own pig ignorance, by all means - just don't kid yourself it's God you're worshipping.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
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