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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Episcopal Church
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
Yes, go right ahead and make an idol out of your own pig ignorance, by all means - just don't kid yourself it's God you're worshipping.
What, instead of subjecting the scriptures to the spirit of the age, you mean? The Zietgeist being the idol of the liberal, that is. In doing so the liberal makes a mockery of the Holy Spirit.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Right, I see you prefer to make mockery of Jesus.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
How exactly? By believing in the integrity of the holy scriptures, you mean? Surely you're just being daft?
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
By ignoring Jesus' message of love and tolerance in favour of a few minor passages.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
@Daronmedway, I'll pass you the torch once I've extracted my own head out of my own arse.
Meanwhile, I can't hear what the others are saying ... they've all got their heads up theirs ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
By ignoring Jesus' message of love and tolerance in favour of a few minor passages.
You're being daft again. Firstly, not all things are tolerated and Christ himself said, sin no more. Secondly, not to tolerate something does not mean an absence of love, which would be a false dichotomy.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Daft. Such a lovely word. Sounds just like the pop of a tab on an ice cold can of Bud.
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Firstly, not all things are tolerated and Christ himself said, sin no more.
Yeah, not all things are tolerated. For instance, Jesus tolerated the presence of wicked women, delivering only the occasional mild murmur about their behavior, On the other hand, he was extremely intolerant of relgiosos throwing their weight around, whitewashing their preferences in a sheen of theological correctness. Yep, he was consistently intolerant of that.
[ 19. July 2013, 20:05: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Now you're being daft, because even though our Lord says that we should forgive he doesn't say that we should approve which is why he said, sin no more.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
Yes, go right ahead and make an idol out of your own pig ignorance, by all means - just don't kid yourself it's God you're worshipping.
What, instead of subjecting the scriptures to the spirit of the age, you mean? The Zietgeist being the idol of the liberal, that is. In doing so the liberal makes a mockery of the Holy Spirit.
Straw man
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
@Daronmedway, I'll pass you the torch once I've extracted my own head out of my own arse.
Meanwhile, I can't hear what the others are saying ... they've all got their heads up theirs ...
With all this guff around there's bound to be a CH4 + M incident at some point. So I happily pass the Christ light to you my dear Brother.
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Sorry, I have no idea what a CH4 + M incident is ...
You've got one over on me, there.
Should I know?
(Gropes for the torch ...)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Bostonman
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# 17108
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Posted
To be fair, I'm not sure why "Jesus appeared to John of Patmos" is more controversial than "he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father." If we believe in a risen Christ, why on earth shouldn't he appear to people in visions?
On the other hand, it's an outrage that he chose to address Thyateira and not New York, leaving the schismatics with no clear scriptural guidance on the woes of TEC.
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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# 11274
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Posted
How likely is it that John the Apostle authored the Revelation, a book in which the Lamb becomes more a Ram, full of retribution? The book has more the character of the Koran ( "write!"/"recite!") than of the normative letters and gospel accounts comprising the rest of the NT. Even the more intellectual Church of Christ folk I knew back in Lubbock, Texas looked at the book as purely allegorical.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Yes, the Apocalypse was written by the Apostle St. John. Certainly there is much imagery in it.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Yes, the Apocalypse was written by the Apostle St. John. Certainly there is much imagery in it.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Now you're being daft.
Thank you.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Ad Orientem: The Zietgeist being the idol of the liberal, that is.
I think I'm going to have a nice glass of whisky and raise a toast to the Zeitgeist.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Yes, the Apocalypse was written by the Apostle St. John. Certainly there is much imagery in it.
The Church has never held that John of Patmos was the Apostle John, there has been question about the authorship of the works attributed to the name "John" since antiquity. Eusebius held them to be different, John the Apostle and John the Presbyter.
It's one of those Christian mysteries we'll never know until the Second Coming.
Anyway so who are you, Ad Orientam, to deny Tradition? Being a reprobate backslider today, are we?
[ 20. July 2013, 03:25: Message edited by: Sober Preacher's Kid ]
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Now you're being daft, because even though our Lord says that we should forgive he doesn't say that we should approve which is why he said, sin no more.
And yet you persist.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Yes, the Apocalypse was written by the Apostle St. John. Certainly there is much imagery in it.
Imagery? So now it isn't literal? So now we interpret? Inconsistent much?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Yes, the Apocalypse was written by the Apostle St. John. Certainly there is much imagery in it.
The Church has never held that John of Patmos was the Apostle John, there has been question about the authorship of the works attributed to the name "John" since antiquity. Eusebius held them to be different, John the Apostle and John the Presbyter.
It's one of those Christian mysteries we'll never know until the Second Coming.
Anyway so who are you, Ad Orientam, to deny Tradition? Being a reprobate backslider today, are we?
Never believed it was written by the Apostle St. John? Are you sure about that old chap? The tradition goes that the Apostle was exiled on the island Patmos about the time of Domitian and there received the revelation. From the Wikipedia article on the book:
"Justin Martyr (c. 100–165 AD) who was acquainted with Polycarp, who had been mentored by John, makes a possible allusion to this book, and credits John as the source. Irenaeus (c. 115–202) assumes it as a conceded point. At the end of the 2nd century, it is accepted at Antioch by Theophilus (died c. 183), and in Africa by Tertullian (c. 160–220). At the beginning of the 3rd century, it is adopted by Clement of Alexandria and by Origen of Alexandria, later by Methodius, Cyprian, Lactantius, Dionysius of Alexandria, and in the 5th century by Quodvultdeus."
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Yes, the Apocalypse was written by the Apostle St. John. Certainly there is much imagery in it.
Imagery? So now it isn't literal? So now we interpret? Inconsistent much?
The book has always been believed to use largely imagery to describe events which have either happened, are happening or will happen. Much of it depends upon ones eschatology, of course. I take the traditional view, being what some refer to as an amillenialist.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Ad Orientem: The Zietgeist being the idol of the liberal, that is.
I think I'm going to have a nice glass of whisky and raise a toast to the Zeitgeist.
You do that.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
To be fair, I'm not sure why "Jesus appeared to John of Patmos" is more controversial than "he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father." If we believe in a risen Christ, why on earth shouldn't he appear to people in visions?
On the other hand, it's an outrage that he chose to address Thyateira and not New York, leaving the schismatics with no clear scriptural guidance on the woes of TEC.
But the promises to conquerors from these passages have long been claimed universally by the church. If the church is to have any integrity it should either consider the threats as universal as well, or stop eschatological cherry-picking. After all, the refrain of each letter is an exhortation for anyone who has ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. These churches are in some sense paradigmatic, a working example of how the risen Jesus continues to discipline his Church today.
[ 20. July 2013, 07:33: Message edited by: daronmedway ]
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PataLeBon
Shipmate
# 5452
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Posted
All of this talk about TEC and lamp stands being removed makes me wonder if anyone has asked the Altar Guild and the Worship Committee about any of this...Never mind the old ladies who actually run the church!
Revelations is a completely baffling book. If John was receiving a vision of the future, then he would have to be describing things for which he had no context. If he was writing about events at the time, then he would have had to use some kind of code in order to get past the Roman authorities. If it is a combination of both, we don't know when one starts and the other ends.
Oh yuck! But then again, it's not any messier than Christ's body on earth being split up as it is now...
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That's between you and your god. Oh, wait a minute. You are your god. That's a problem. - Jack O'Neill (Stargate SG1)
Posts: 1907 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2004
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Ad Orientem: The Zietgeist being the idol of the liberal, that is.
I think I'm going to have a nice glass of whisky and raise a toast to the Zeitgeist.
You do that.
The liberal understands the spirit of the age because we are an incarnational faith.
The more I think on it, the more I realize the Anglican church really is the true church.
We live by the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law.
The sin of the Orthodox church and the RCC is pride and idolatry of tradition.
The idolatry of the more protestant churches is the written word (bibliolatry).
Whereas we Anglicans have the living word of tradition and scripture and reason (real life application) in good balance.
I'm sure John of Patmos would approve.
I raise a toast to the liberal Anglican communion.
[ 20. July 2013, 11:30: Message edited by: Evensong ]
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a theological scrapbook
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
To be fair, I'm not sure why "Jesus appeared to John of Patmos" is more controversial than "he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father." If we believe in a risen Christ, why on earth shouldn't he appear to people in visions?
On the other hand, it's an outrage that he chose to address Thyateira and not New York, leaving the schismatics with no clear scriptural guidance on the woes of TEC.
But the promises to conquerors from these passages have long been claimed universally by the church. If the church is to have any integrity it should either consider the threats as universal as well, or stop eschatological cherry-picking. After all, the refrain of each letter is an exhortation for anyone who has ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. These churches are in some sense paradigmatic, a working example of how the risen Jesus continues to discipline his Church today.
Why are you prioritizing Revelation's description over Jesus's description of the Father raining on the just and unjust alike when it comes to talking about how God disciplines his Church? Or on Jesus' parable of the Prodigal Son?
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
That's where you end up when you try to reconcile all the contradictions within and between the gospel accounts, the "Pauline" and other epistles, and Revelation. It's where you get if you take it all at equal value and refuse higher criticism.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Evensong writes: quote:
Whereas we Anglicans have the living word of tradition and scripture and reason (real life application) in good balance.
and I'd love to agree, but the balance is so warped and uneven and unhealthy these days, that I (another Anglican) am very nervous about suggesting that we've got a lot to boast about right now.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Ad Orientem: The Zietgeist being the idol of the liberal, that is.
I think I'm going to have a nice glass of whisky and raise a toast to the Zeitgeist.
You do that.
Travellers to Seattle would do well do drop in at the Zeitgeist Café-- I do not think that they are licensed but a discreet tot of Lagavulin 16-year old from a hip flask might do the trick.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I think I'm going to have a nice glass of whisky and raise a toast to the Zeitgeist.
You do that.
Thanks. Cheers and good health to you too.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
To be fair, I'm not sure why "Jesus appeared to John of Patmos" is more controversial than "he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father." If we believe in a risen Christ, why on earth shouldn't he appear to people in visions?
On the other hand, it's an outrage that he chose to address Thyateira and not New York, leaving the schismatics with no clear scriptural guidance on the woes of TEC.
But the promises to conquerors from these passages have long been claimed universally by the church. If the church is to have any integrity it should either consider the threats as universal as well, or stop eschatological cherry-picking. After all, the refrain of each letter is an exhortation for anyone who has ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. These churches are in some sense paradigmatic, a working example of how the risen Jesus continues to discipline his Church today.
Why are you prioritizing Revelation's description over Jesus's description of the Father raining on the just and unjust alike when it comes to talking about how God disciplines his Church? Or on Jesus' parable of the Prodigal Son?
Common grace is a very real and beautiful thing. Of course the just and the unjust enjoy the benefits of common grace. God is very kind and very good, even to those who hate him and ignorantly abuse his charity. However, we're not discussing common grace, we're discussion the particular grace of Christ's presence in the church to which he has given the great commission and which will be held to account for it's witness to his saving grace.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
To be fair, I'm not sure why "Jesus appeared to John of Patmos" is more controversial than "he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father." If we believe in a risen Christ, why on earth shouldn't he appear to people in visions?
On the other hand, it's an outrage that he chose to address Thyateira and not New York, leaving the schismatics with no clear scriptural guidance on the woes of TEC.
But the promises to conquerors from these passages have long been claimed universally by the church. If the church is to have any integrity it should either consider the threats as universal as well, or stop eschatological cherry-picking. After all, the refrain of each letter is an exhortation for anyone who has ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. These churches are in some sense paradigmatic, a working example of how the risen Jesus continues to discipline his Church today.
Why are you prioritizing Revelation's description over Jesus's description of the Father raining on the just and unjust alike when it comes to talking about how God disciplines his Church? Or on Jesus' parable of the Prodigal Son?
Common grace is a very real and beautiful thing. Of course the just and the unjust enjoy the benefits of common grace. God is very kind and very good, even to those who hate him and ignorantly abuse his charity. However, we're not discussing common grace, we're discussion the particular grace of Christ's presence in the church to which he has given the great commission and which will be held to account for it's witness to his saving grace.
That's a rather convenient reading something into the text what isn't there. I didn't read Jesus say "Unless you are in the Church, in which case, this doesn't apply to you."
I don't think God has separate rules for Christians and non-Christians. If grace is not given freely to all and without condition, then it ain't grace.
[ 20. July 2013, 13:28: Message edited by: Anglican_Brat ]
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
I disagree. I think God has much higher expectations of his Church than he has of the world. In some respects that's the whole point of discipleship (cf. Luke 14). The Church is a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God. The Church is a city set on a hill, the body of Christ, oh the list is almost endless! But the world is none of those things. That's why mission exists.
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
Or the Church might be the seasoning salt that is scattered throughout the whole. Indeed, the salt might not be all that apparent to outward perception, yet it infiltrates the whole in which it has been scattered -- its savour permeates the entirety, qualitatively improving and modifying it. Perhaps rather like C.S. Lewis' image of "the good infection". The Kingdom develops and gradually spreads through the presence of Christ's Mystical Body - the Church - in the world. This seems to me a better analogy for what we are trying to do in the Church (some of us anyway). I look to manifestations of Christ's Body like the Abolitionists, the heroes of the Civil Rights Movement in America, and all Christians who work and have worked for social justice, the conversion of hearts away from bigotry and exploitation, and for peace in the world.
[ 20. July 2013, 13:56: Message edited by: Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras ]
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Ad Orientem, I'd take a fairly traditional view too and consider myself a-millenial ...
But don't you think there's something of a slight disconnect here in your apparently fairly literal approach to Revelation and the fact that the Eastern Churches were the last to accord it canonical status?
As far as I understand it, Revelation isn't used Liturgically within Orthodoxy to this day. And yet they will often cite it as a proof-text for the use of robes and incense ... not that I have any particular problem with those things.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
On other news ... the fact that Eversnot now believes that the Anglican communion is the True Church is enough to make me jump ship ...
The very fact that she has said this means that I cannot in all conscience continue to be an Anglican.
I really wish she hadn't said it. I've got to leave the Church of England now ...
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
Never fear Gamaliel. Everrong only stated that the "liberal Anglican communion" is the true Church - a church which, thankfully, only exists in her wildest ecclesiastical fantasies.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Ad Orientem, I'd take a fairly traditional view too and consider myself a-millenial ...
But don't you think there's something of a slight disconnect here in your apparently fairly literal approach to Revelation and the fact that the Eastern Churches were the last to accord it canonical status?
As far as I understand it, Revelation isn't used Liturgically within Orthodoxy to this day. And yet they will often cite it as a proof-text for the use of robes and incense ... not that I have any particular problem with those things.
No, it's not used liturgically yet we do consider it canonical. The East has just been cautious in its use. The danger is always that people try to interpret contemporary events into it, such as Zionist evangelicals.
[ 20. July 2013, 14:24: Message edited by: Ad Orientem ]
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Sure, Ad Orientem, I appreciate that. I'd be cautious in its use too. And yes, I know that the Eastern Churches regard it as canonical.
But I think I can be forgiven for thinking that they treat it without caution when it suits them - justification for robes and incense ( ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ) and with caution with it doesn't - Zionist evangelicals ( ).
But I take your point.
@daronnumpty ... sure, you have reassured me. I shall endeavour to remain in the Church of England by law established until such time as Ad Orientem and his co-religionists lure me across the Bosphorus ...
I'm not sure I'd want to be in any church that Errorsnag belongs to, though ... just as well she's in the Antipodes and a hemisphere away ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
On other news ... the fact that Eversnot now believes that the Anglican communion is the True Church is enough to make me jump ship ...
The glory of the lord too bright for you my dear? ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
Evensong writes: quote:
Whereas we Anglicans have the living word of tradition and scripture and reason (real life application) in good balance.
and I'd love to agree, but the balance is so warped and uneven and unhealthy these days, that I (another Anglican) am very nervous about suggesting that we've got a lot to boast about right now.
Sorry to hear it.
Protties getting you down with their bibliolatry or is it the conservatives in skirts?
I live in a great diocese with an awesome arch. We keep the balance well IMO.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
I always thought that you considered the sun to shine out of your own arse, Errorsnort, now you're telling me explicitly that it is.
You must have taken your own head out of your sphincter in order for the light to shine forth.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I suspect that any church that had you in it would have its lampstand dimmed to some extent - either because you think that your own light shines more brightly or because you would want it to shine out of your own arse.
Whatever light there is shining out of liberal Anglicanism - and I don't doubt that there is light there - it will be inspite of, not because of you. But then, the same applies to all of us in whatever tradition we're in.
The problem I have with you is that you're not particularly bright.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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malik3000
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# 11437
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Posted
My random thoughts inspired by this thread:
I think Daronmedway is right when he says that God expects more of the church than the world.
I like what Evensong has to say about the role of the Anglican communion in the Body of Christ.
(I like Gamaliel's posts a lot but I guess either I'm just dense or I haven't visited Hell enough to figure out the nature of the beef between him and Evensong)
Re the authorship of Revelation, even if John the Evangelist is the author, that doesn't mean it can't be allegorical. I think that Jesus himself spoke allegorically sometimes
A thought just now struck me -- if I am correct (and I am open to correction) St. John the Divine a/k/a John of Patmos refers to the author of Revelation, whether or not he is also John the Apostle.. It's interesting that a major place of worship of the godless Episcopal Church should be named specifically for the author of the Book of Revelation!
[ 20. July 2013, 17:18: Message edited by: malik3000 ]
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
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Zach82
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# 3208
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Posted
Threads like this make me believe God is punishing the ship for its sins.
[ 20. July 2013, 18:23: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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gorpo
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# 17025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bostonman:
To be fair, I'm not sure why "Jesus appeared to John of Patmos" is more controversial than "he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father." If we believe in a risen Christ, why on earth shouldn't he appear to people in visions?
Clearly not everyone "believes" in the things you state.
Liberals believe the whole Jesus storty to be a legend, with the factual background to it being a jewish peasent of the 1st century who had some followers who, after his death, started to make stories about him ressurrecting and making miracles. This factual jewish being dead since 2000 years ago and obviously having nothing to do with the word "Jesus" that they use metaphorically nowadays.
Tough stating that explicitly from the pulpit would not be a good idea... the people in the pews would either go away or defrock them. Since not all of them are so bright to make a living as scholars, they have to keep with this game of mentioning old christian beliefs as mere metaphors in order to make sure the average christians who pay their salary do not notice they are not believers at all.
That´s why the discourse they use in internet forums is so much more radical then what they say in the pulpit. They have to lie to people who pay their salary. They could go on and make new denominations that fit their own beliefs so that they wouldn´t need to lie to make a living anymore (for example, the Unitarian Universalist Church which does not require one to believe in God at all...). Tough that would take hard job since you don´t build a congregation overnight. It´s a lot easier to install yourself in some historical church with a lot more stability so you can have your salary guaranteed.
Posts: 247 | From: Brazil | Registered: Apr 2012
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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047
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Posted
How many of this sort of liberal actually exist outside of your paranoid little mind, gorpo?
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
@malik3000, I don't particularly have any 'history' or beef with Eversnore, but she does like to think that she's a lot smarter than she really is ie. not very.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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