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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Daily Office (yet again)
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Oblatus
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# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
I still have heard of zero Episcopal parishes in the USA that use the Roman Missal, other than to borrow the offertory prayers therefrom.
Sorry to quote myself, but I must hasten to add that a Daily Roman Missal resides on the celebrant's lectern at Low Masses in our shack, and mainly on major feasts, the celebrant inserts propers from it, such as the entrance and communion sentences, and other bits such as the alleluia and prayer over the gifts, ad libitum. But the rite being used is still the 1979 BCP Rite II.
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The Silent Acolyte
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# 1158
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Posted
Or, formerly, the lections for daily mass (in a crosspost).
[ 13. November 2010, 15:00: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
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malik3000
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# 11437
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
I think the usual thing is to have an OT lesson and an NT one, each followed by a canticle (Magnificat and Nunc dimittis, respectively, at Evening Prayer). If there's a third lesson, like a patristic one, some commentators say it should immediately follow the second biblical one (so before the Nunc at Evening Prayer) and others say it should be between the second canticle and the Apostles' Creed.
My current habit is to use the OT reading for the current year followed by an OT canticle*, and the Gospel, followed by the Benedictus, in the morning. In the evening i use the other NT reading. When i have time, for a second reading in the evening i'll use a patristic or other non-Biblical reading. (I particularly like "Celebrating the Seasons" for this.) I use a NT canticle after the Epistle reading and the Magn. after the Non-scriptural reading.
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
[That's a definite cross-pond difference. While some individual U.S. Episcopalians (including me sometimes) avail themselves of the RC Liturgy of the Hours, use of RC books in churches is practically unheard of...very few exceptions, and I still have heard of zero Episcopal parishes in the USA that use the Roman Missal, other than to borrow the offertory prayers therefrom.
*Over the years, I have prayed the office either from LoH or from BCP (1928 way back when, and 1979 since, well, 1979). Currently i use the BCP but often add or substitute bits from the LoH when i am at home and have both volumes at hand. For variety, I sometimes substitute the O.T. canticle from from LoH for the 1st canticle in the BCP. I sometimes use the LoH antiphon for the Benedictus and Magnificat on feasts and Sundays.
The Nunc D. i use at Compline (or at least a mini-version thereof) (if i don't fall asleep 1st! ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
[ 13. November 2010, 15:27: Message edited by: malik3000 ]
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
In Ye Olde Books for the Office, 1st Evensong seems to be given precedence over 2nd Evensong (for reasons I'm not entirely clear about). In compiling the Domestic Ordo (essentially adding antiphons on the Mag and Nunc to the Prayer Book office, using the CW lectionary), some of the propers don't have 2nd Evensong antiphons so I've been using the 1st Evensong ones (given that there'll only be one Evensong, and that on the day).
Does it, therefore, make sense to swap the 1st Evensong and 2nd Evensong antiphons for feasts that do actually have a First Evensong according to the modern rules.
(Incidentally, don't ask me why I don't just use another office. I'm not sure is the answer.)
Thurible
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
Including Sundays.
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Patrick
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# 305
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Posted
Fr.Gregory Woolfenden (Memory Eternal)in his Daily Liturgical Prayer demonstates the historic importance of First Vespers . The only comprehensive comparative study of the Divine Office that I had read up to now was the magisterial work of Robert Taft, SJ, The Liturgy of the Hours East and West. Woolfenden is grounded in Taft, of course, and also in Paul Bradshaw's work. The present volume is a gem, focused upon a simple observation: that in its origin, the daily office was a meditation upon the transition from darkness to light, from sleep to wakefulness and, most importantly, from death to life. The Paschal Vigil serves as a paradigm for this meditation. Thus, the liturgical day properly begins with sunset and ends at sunset, not from sunrise till night. The Eastern Churches, without exception, keep this pattern even today. For us Orthodox, for instance, Vespers looks forward to a feast, which culminates in our sacramental participation in its mystery through the Divine Liturgy. The notion of Second Vespers is quite alien to an Eastern Orthodox sense of liturgical commemoration, except, rarely, during the Great Fast (Forty Martyrs of Sabaste, for instance, when a Presanctified Liturgy is served). Fr. Woolfenden goes through the structure and development of all the major Eastern liturgical families as well as the Roman and Benedictine Office and the Ambrosian and Mozarabic variants.
When I was a boy, my Short Breviary already incorporated the abolition of First Vespers for all but First Class Feasts (now termed Solemnities) and Sundays, and that is all that remains of the ancient vesperal anticipation of a feast after the promulgation of Vatican II's LOTH. I was always chagrined when I attended Vespers at the Cowley Fathers. They were using the Sarum grounded Hours of Prayer, and, given the coincidence of First and Second Vespers of weekday feasts, Second Vespers were rare, largely confined to Sundays and the major celebrations of the year. I thought that the good fathers were being quaint.
Dr. Woolenden also emphasizes the centrality of not only Vespers and Lauds, but also of the nocturnal Vigil. After Vatican II, some acknowledgement of the nocturnal vigil character of the new Office of Readings is conceded in the official commentaries, and in the supplementary Resurrectional Gospel options, but, as you know, it may be said at any time of day and its nocturnal use is probably now exclusively monastic.
The modern western office, then, departs radically from the ancient notion of the liturgical day insofar as the LOTH generally begins with sunrise and ends at sunset. It is not essentially centered upon the Resurrectional theme of the ancient Office. It seems as if the hierarchs at Vatican II were hesitant, with some good reason, for accepting the judgment of the liturgical scholars regarding how to renew the Office. But, I think, in what finally transpired, they threw away the baby with the bath water
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jordan32404
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# 15833
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Posted
So if I wanted to embellish the Prayer Book office... what are some resources I could use to add antiphons to the Office?
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jordan32404
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# 15833
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Posted
Another question... Office hymns, where do they "go" in the Office?
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Jon in the Nati
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# 15849
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Posted
quote:
Another question... Office hymns, where do they "go" in the Office?
I think that depends largely on what form of the office you use. In the 79BCP, it comes after the collect(s) of the day toward the end of the office.
In the Holy Cross/St. Helena Breviary (which I use and like very much) it comes after the second lesson and before the NT canticle. I don't really like that arrangement.
In the 1662 BCP, it is after the second lesson and before the Benedictus (I think...).
In the current Roman Liturgy of the Hours, the hymn comes immediately after the opening versicle.
Those are the only ones I can remember off the top...
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Olaf
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# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
So if I wanted to embellish the Prayer Book office... what are some resources I could use to add antiphons to the Office?
I'd suggest the ones Oblatus already mentioned. Galley's
Prayer Book Office (which is rare as hen's teeth and thrice as expensive on the web market--I still have yet to get a copy), and Monastic Diurnal Revised (which is a little easier to get a hold of and not as expensive).
If you don't mind inclusive and/or expansive language, St. Helena Breviary: Monastic Edition is quite impressive. (The Monastic edition, to my knowledge, must be purchased from the sisters. It does include the chant music. The Personal Edition from Church Publishing does not.) I'm not completely sold on the idea of inclusive/expansive language, but the sisters really did an incredible job, IMHO.
[cross-posted with jon, but I'll leave it due to the links]
[ 15. November 2010, 20:44: Message edited by: Martin L ]
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DitzySpike
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# 1540
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
So if I wanted to embellish the Prayer Book office... what are some resources I could use to add antiphons to the Office?
This is a good resource site. With a generous selection of material from Galley's Prayer Book Office.
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Oblatus
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# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
So if I wanted to embellish the Prayer Book office... what are some resources I could use to add antiphons to the Office?
This is a good resource site. With a generous selection of material from Galley's Prayer Book Office.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
The man who does that blog has done several projects I've only thought of doing myself: 1979 psalter with pointing, antiphons, and psalm prayers, all in one place. Just awesome. Thank you for sharing the link. (Great blog to follow, too.)
I may bill you for the toner cartridge I'm about to use up. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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DitzySpike
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# 1540
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Posted
@Oblatus You know you really want to get into contemplative prayer
Check out the Lectionary booklets. He's upped the Daily Office Book's ante by including patristic lessons!
Amazing chap. Someone help him with the Sanctoral.
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Patrick
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# 305
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Posted
For additional antiphons, hymns (Sarum use):
Rev. Paul Hartzell, Prayer Book Office (IMHO, far superior to Captain Galley CA's version, as difficult to procure as Galley but sometimes available on ebay) or the Anglical Catholic Church of Canada's Liturgy of the Hours (Abridged version, available through Lulu). The supplemental material is also Sarum use.
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jordan32404
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# 15833
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
There's also the PDF of the Salisbury Antiphoner, translated/edited/compiled by G. H. Palmer for the Wantage Sisters.
Thurible
Does that source provide antiphons for the weekdays? I'm looking at the current week (Trinity 24) and it only provides an antiphon for the Sunday Magnificat, am I to use that antiphon for the week or does it simply not provide weekday antiphons?
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
I don't know if I'm doing the right thing but I'd use the ferial antiphons from after Epiphany, as I do the English Hymnal hymns. pp 21-23.
Thurible
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the Ænglican
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# 12496
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
Here's a pretty great customizable online breviary. Just check off what you want in the dropdowns.
I've heard that they've received permission from Church Publishing to use the Galley antiphons but haven't gotten them in yet...
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Pancho
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# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick:
Dr. Woolenden also emphasizes the centrality of not only Vespers and Lauds, but also of the nocturnal Vigil. After Vatican II, some acknowledgement of the nocturnal vigil character of the new Office of Readings is conceded in the official commentaries, and in the supplementary Resurrectional Gospel options, but, as you know, it may be said at any time of day and its nocturnal use is probably now exclusively monastic.
The modern western office, then, departs radically from the ancient notion of the liturgical day insofar as the LOTH generally begins with sunrise and ends at sunset. It is not essentially centered upon the Resurrectional theme of the ancient Office. It seems as if the hierarchs at Vatican II were hesitant, with some good reason, for accepting the judgment of the liturgical scholars regarding how to renew the Office. But, I think, in what finally transpired, they threw away the baby with the bath water
The Liber Hymnarius , at least for a number of times, gives two options for the hymn at the Office of Readings, one if sung at night and another if sung during the day. There is the option to recite the OoR before Compline of the day before. I took advantage of this last Sunday. Since I was up 'til past 1 a.m. I decided to pray the next day's OoR with Compline before going to bed.
I also seem to recall a rubric somewhere in my Liturgy of the Hours (Latin American edition) dealing with OoR said at night vs. day, but I can't remember where or what it was.
I've got mixed feeling about this. I think on the whole it was a clever and good idea to free Matins/Vigils/Office of Readings from being necessarily tied to nightime/early early early morning. It was a great help to active parish clergy and it made it more accesible to average layfolk.
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Manipled Mutineer
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# 11514
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Posted
Not precisely the Daily Office, but I thought someone might be interested to pick up this rare rather rare book of Occasional Offices from the now sadly-defunct Angllican religous brotherhood the Society of the Sacred Mission, Kelham.
MM
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Angloid
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# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Manipled Mutineer:
Not precisely the Daily Office, but I thought someone might be interested to pick up this rare rather rare book of Occasional Offices from the now sadly-defunct Angllican religous brotherhood the Society of the Sacred Mission, Kelham.
MM
Fortunately the SSM is not defunct, and indeed is now a sister- and brother-hood, though no longer at Kelham.
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Manipled Mutineer
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# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Manipled Mutineer:
Not precisely the Daily Office, but I thought someone might be interested to pick up this rare rather rare book of Occasional Offices from the now sadly-defunct Angllican religous brotherhood the Society of the Sacred Mission, Kelham.
MM
Fortunately the SSM is not defunct, and indeed is now a sister- and brother-hood, though no longer at Kelham.
Pleased to be corrected on that one!
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
A question from another thread.
Hart, Eccles host.
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
Anyone use the Monastic Breviary Matins as published by Lancelot Andrewes Press? If so, is it a good volume, i.e., worth the purchase? (I currently use the Monastic Diurnal from the same publisher.)
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WearyPilgrim
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# 14593
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Posted
Just logged on and am curious: When I was in college forty years ago, there was an Episcopal parish nearby that did Morning Prayer every weekday at 8:30. It was always sparsely attended, but I enjoyed going when I could. How common is this practice nowadays anywhere in SOF territory?
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daviddrinkell
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# 8854
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WearyPilgrim:
Just logged on and am curious: When I was in college forty years ago, there was an Episcopal parish nearby that did Morning Prayer every weekday at 8:30. It was always sparsely attended, but I enjoyed going when I could. How common is this practice nowadays anywhere in SOF territory?
We have Matins, Holy Communion and Evening Prayer every day - not even all cathedrals do that, and not just in Canada. I know of priests in the diocese who say the daily offices in the church every day.
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David
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malik3000
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# 11437
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Posted
As far as i know, alas, the only church in the Episcopal diocese of Atlanta that does daily morning and evening prayer is the cathedral. They also have daily eucharist. The one other parish with daily eucharist (Church of our Saviour, reputedly the highest-candle one) does not, however, do the offices.
To my mild surprise, I occasionally hear of the Liturgy of Hours in a Roman Catholic parish, but only on a very very occasional basis
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aig
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# 429
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Posted
We have morning and evening prayer said daily at 9am and 5.30pm. The usual numbers attending are between one and six.
I don't think we are very unusual - I recently spent a couple of days on a course in Bromley and was delighted to find a church (near the car park) which had daily MP and EP which I could join (four other people were there each of the three days). It made staying on my own in a strange place a bit more joyful.
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Olaf
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# 11804
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Posted
The Daily Office isn't too common in TEC places around here in suburbia. When it is prayed, it is invariably before Holy Eucharist. I know of places that pray the office three or four times a week, but that's probably the max. There are some TEC churches in the city that do so. Unfortunately, the local cathedral has only just re-instituted 5 days worth of weekday Masses, having been down to three days for a couple years.
quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
To my mild surprise, I occasionally hear of the Liturgy of Hours in a Roman Catholic parish, but only on a very very occasional basis
Holy Name [RC] Cathedral in Chicago has started praying the Liturgy of the Hours two or three times a day, preceding a Mass but not Frankenmassed (so there's a pause between office and Mass).
[ 05. December 2010, 17:59: Message edited by: Martin L ]
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
Morning Prayer, here in not-Westphalia, is "usually" at 6.45 and 8.45, to allow for the w**k commitments of those who wish to indulge. Numbers are typically vary between 1 and 4 at each sitting.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Random sample: of the four parishes I've done placement at as an RC seminarian, only one has hours in common regularly (as a parish, all of the rectories pray together).
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PD
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# 12436
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Posted
Morning Prayer - 1928 BCP - is said 2 to 5 times a week in this parish depending on my schedule. Evening Prayer is a bit of a rarity. We are central to High in churchmanship. The allegedly AffCath place up the road NEVER has MP and only rarely has EP. It is a mass and fries parish.
PD
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Oblatus
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# 6278
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Posted
Our (Anglo-Catholic) parish has been committed to keeping the MP-Mass-EP daily pattern for decades. Currently it's like this:
Mon-Fri
6.40am Morning Prayer
7.00am Mass
6.00pm Evening Prayer
[6.20pm Mass on Wednesdays and BCP Holy Days]
Sat
9.40am Morning Prayer
10.00am Mass
6.00pm Evening Prayer
Sun
7.30am Morning Prayer
8, 9, and 11am Masses
4pm Evening Prayer or Evensong/Benediction
Weekday attendance is low (in the single digits on average) but rather faithful.
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Patrick
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# 305
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Posted
Re.: Monastic Matins. It is an excellent companion to the Monastic Diurnal. And it is currently on sale (check out Lancelot Andrewes Press for details.)
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Thurible
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# 3206
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Posted
Tonight's BCP office (or, indeed, any other commemoration in Advent after Advent 2):
Collects for Advent 2, Advent Sunday, then St Nicholas
OR
Collects for Advent 2, St Nicholas then Advent Sunday?
I went for the first option at Matins but, as I approach Evensong, I wonder.
Thurible
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PD
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# 12436
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Posted
If you run on the traditional Calendar
St Ambrose
St Nicholas
Advent Sunday, then the two fixed 'uns
St Ambrose and St Nicholas are both doubles, but a first Evensong of a doctor trumps the second Eensong of a Confessor and Bishop.
PD
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PD
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# 12436
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Posted
I should perhaps add that there is no need to add the Sunday collect on a Saints' Day falling on a weekday unless specifically directed to do so by the Rubrics.
PD
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Edgeman
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# 12867
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Posted
Just a bit of a random question- For those familiar with the pre-55 Monastic Diurnal or Anglican Breviary- I know that you kneel for the preces at lauds and vespers, but when do you stand? During the collect or during the closing versicles?
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PD
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# 12436
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Posted
IIRC you kneel until after the closing versicles. After Lauds and Compline you then stand for the Marian antiphon.
PD
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Patrick
Shipmate
# 305
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Posted
I use Fr. Hartzell's Prayer Book Office, which follows generally Sarum usage. The ferial days in Advent are "privileged ferias", that is, the Sunday is commemorated at Evensong and Matins by reciting the Magnificat or Benedictus antiphons, the versicle and response and the appropriate Sunday collect after the collect of the principal commemorated saint(s) (with the shorter ending to the Advent Sunday collect). Then I recite the antiphons for any additional commemorated saints with versicles and collect. Antepenultimately, I pray the collect for Advent I and the concluding invariable collects for the given hour. Fr. Harzell extends this notion of privileged ferias (Advent, Lent, Passiontide and Holy Week) beyond Sarum use to include Paschaltide. Ascensiontide and Pentecost week are already privileged as major octaves.
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jordan32404
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# 15833
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Posted
How does the Monastic Diurnal differ from the Anglican Breviary? I've ordered the LA Matins book but can't find a guide to use it, however, there is a guide from the Anglican Breviary, could I use the AB guide to maneuver the LA Matins?
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Patrick
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# 305
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Posted
Lancelot Andrewes Press publishes an English translation of the Rubrics of the Monastic Breviary. The Western Orthodox Benedictine Fellowship of St. Laurence (which, I believe, owns the press)(www.saintlaurenceosb.org) has online guides for the monastic office.
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jordan32404
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# 15833
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Posted
Brief question about the upcoming Octave of the Conception of the BVM... on the following days after Dec. 8th, are the antiphons, chapters, etc... taken from the Psalter, the Proper for the Season, or for the Common of the BVM?
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Patrick
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# 305
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Posted
"VII
4. The Office of a Day within an Octave is said with two Nocturns and three Lessons and as many Responsories of the Feast, in the order wich is noted in the Rubric of Responsories: except on Monday and Tuesday of the Octaves of Easter and Pentecost, in which it is said with three Nocturns, in the way of other solemnities, as is appointed in their own places. The Invitatory and Hymn are said as on the Day of the Feast. On the ferial Psalms are said are said the Antiphons, as on the Feast, but each for each Nocturn beginning from the first Antiphon of the first Nocturn, so that on the second day within the Octave in the first Nocturn is to be said the first Antiphon, in the second Nocturn the second Antiphon, and so on on each day in order without interruption even by an occurrent Feast, except the days within the Octaves of Easter and Pentecost. The Versicle of the j Nocturn and Responsories are taken from that Nocturn of the Feast, of which is the Absolution. The Lessons within Octaves of the Lord, except Monday and Tuesday of Easter and Pentecost, three are read from the Homily on the Gospel of the same day, which are given as proper each for each day. But within other Octaves they are said from some Sermon or Treatise, as apointed also in their proper places; which is oberved generally in all Octaves. But if in some Churches within the Octave of a Patron or Title of the Church, or of another Feast which in some Churches is accustomed to be celebrated with an Octave, in those Churches there are not kept proper and approved Lessons for within the Octave., the Lessons placed in second Nocturn of the Common of Saints are to be repeated, if the Octave is to be said of Saints, otherwise the Lessons of the Feast Day.
5 In the ij Nocturn after the Antiphon and Psalms is said the Chapter and Verse, as appointed in their places but if there be no proper ones given, they are taken as on the day at Sext, except on Tuesday and Friday, on which is said the of the third Nocturn. Lauds and the Hours of the day are said as on the Feast itself.
6. Within an Octave the Office is said Semidouble, although only three Lessons are read; but on the Octave Day it is said Double, in Vespers within the Octave all is said as in second Vespers of the Feast, .and in first Vespers of the Octave Day all as in first Vespers of the Feast, unless otherwise noted in the proper places.
7. Within Octaves the usual Suffrages of the Saints are not said, nor are the Prayers said at Prime and Compline, even if the Office of a Sunday or a Semidouble Feast is to be said. On the Octave Day the whole Office is said as on the Feast.Day, unless it is noted otherwise in the proper places. For the rest, the manner of ordering the Office of an Octave is to be found below in proper Rubrics."
Above is from Fr. Jack Witbrok's Western Rite Printing Texts website. He has full rubrics and many texts for both the secular and the monastic breviaries, edited for western Orthodox use.
Posts: 109 | From: Fordham University, Bronx, N.Y. U.S.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Can you provide a link for that, Patrick? Thank you.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Traditional Anglican Suffrages and Responses for the Child King
From this church's website. What are they?
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Traditional Anglican Suffrages and Responses for the Child King
From this church's website. What are they?
Thurible
If I might be so bold as to piggy-back on Thurible's request: What is the "Roll Call of the Saints" mentioned on the same page?
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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