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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Daily Office (yet again)
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Traditional Anglican Suffrages and Responses for the Child King
From this church's website. What are they?
Thurible
If I might be so bold as to piggy-back on Thurible's request: What is the "Roll Call of the Saints" mentioned on the same page?
I wonder if it is the
martyrology of the day?
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jordan32404
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# 15833
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Posted
If I want to say the Angelus/Regina Coeli at the proper time, would that be said before or after the Office at that time (presumably at Lauds, Sext, and Vespers?) or is the Angelus not said with the Office?
Posts: 268 | From: Albany, NY | Registered: Aug 2010
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
If I want to say the Angelus/Regina Coeli at the proper time, would that be said before or after the Office at that time (presumably at Lauds, Sext, and Vespers?) or is the Angelus not said with the Office?
Before or after is up to you: various communities and individuals say it in either position. I have several monastic office books that have the community start with the Angelus/Regina Coeli (CSM, OJN) and have experienced a community that says it (silently, with bells) after the office (St Meinrad).
In our parish (we have MP and EP in church, but not midday), we end the office with the Angelus/Regina Coeli.
An advantage to starting with the Angelus is that it then occurs at precise times, such as 7am, noon, and 6pm, but that may not be as important as keeping the morning, noon, and evening times in general rather than up to the minute.
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DitzySpike
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# 1540
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Posted
Re: Thesaurus
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) Wonderful Christmas present. Thank you.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
Re: Thesaurus
Wonderful Christmas present. Thank you.
You're welcome. Be sure to open the bookmarks panel in Acrobat Reader to get help navigating the big file.
What's missing is the introductory sections that are available in English as The Monastic Hours. The posted file is just the Thesaurus itself.
I'm about to replace the posted TLHM file with a searchable one. Exactly the same file, but now you can search for a word or phrase.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Copied over from another thread
Hart, Eccles host
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
Are there any rules with combining the day hours in the Monastic Diurnal? I don't see any special instructions, except to eliminate the secret Our Father before the hour. So does that mean one would pray through the entire hour and then begin the next in sequence?
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
And another...
Hart, Eccles host
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
I was flipping through my copy of "Christian Prayer" and am reading through the music section and saw the section on psalm tones. Apparently, these are modern adaptations of the Gregorian tones... I'm wanting to know if there's more information on them. For instance, I am using the Manual of Plainsong to chant the Psalms, could I substitute the Murray/Bevenot tones for the Gregorian ones given there? For example, Psalm 4 for Compline is given as Tone II 1, so would I use the Murray/Bevenot Tone 2?
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
And another...
Hart, Eccles host
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
I was flipping through my copy of "Christian Prayer" and am reading through the music section and saw the section on psalm tones. Apparently, these are modern adaptations of the Gregorian tones... I'm wanting to know if there's more information on them. For instance, I am using the Manual of Plainsong to chant the Psalms, could I substitute the Murray/Bevenot tones for the Gregorian ones given there? For example, Psalm 4 for Compline is given as Tone II 1, so would I use the Murray/Bevenot Tone 2?
Alas, I got rid of my regular-sized Christian Prayer when I found a large-print one on sale at a ridiculously low price. Then I realized the large-print edition lacks the music appendix. Are the tones available anywhere in a scan or PDF?
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jordan32404
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# 15833
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Posted
Unfortunately I've not been able to find it online. If I can get a scanner that works, I'll scan it and PM it to you.
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the Ćnglican
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# 12496
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Posted
We're (mostly) all familiar with the Revised Common Lectionary as a source for Mass readings. It turns out there's a Daily Office lectionary by the same crowd. It's called the Revised Common Lectionary Daily Readings, can be found for download at the CCT web site, and, IIRC, is the appointed Office lectionary for the ELCA's new Evangelical Lutheran Worship (aka the Cranberry book).
Has anybody on-board used this resource before? Can you compare it to another Office lectionary? I've read the guiding principles but am curious how well it works out in practice...
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The subject of religious ceremonial is one which has a special faculty for stirring strong feeling. --W. H. Frere
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the Ćnglican:
Has anybody on-board used this resource before? Can you compare it to another Office lectionary? I've read the guiding principles but am curious how well it works out in practice...
Personally, I think it seems rather meager, and nothing for Sundays? I think it would work better for weekday Eucharist, perhaps.
I attended a feedback-gathering session on the draft Daily Office materials (for what later became ELW) at Valparaiso University's Institute for Liturgical Studies one year, and lots of wildly varying input was given, both from people who wanted to develop the LBW offices further (perhaps in the direction of something like Philip Pfatteicher's Daily Prayer of the Church) and from people who wanted a very freeform set of "resources" from which to piece together more or less spontaneous daily services for every setting and occasion.
What ELW ended up with was toward the latter, I think, with an outline and rite but leaving users on their own for a psalm schedule, a lectionary (largely), and any enhancements. I get the impression the Daily Office wasn't taken as seriously this time as in the LBW. I know one ELCA pastor (Gustav Kopka) who had even proposed a discipline of prayer every three hours throughout the day using the LBW offices, litany, and suffrages, and held some of these regularly in his church (University Lutheran, East Lansing, Mich.) at various times during the week. Not sure he'd have enough to do this with ELW.
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the Ćnglican
Shipmate
# 12496
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Posted
Oblatus, my sense is the same with regard to the ELW's commitment to the Offices. I know that the Missouri Synod was a major part of the formation of the LBW and insisted on certain parts, then pulled out shortly before the project finished, going on to create their own blue book. Perhaps the appearance of more robust/traditionally grounded Offices in the LBW as opposed to the current state of the ELW was linked to a (beneficial) Missouri influence...
I find several things about this lectionary odd, the inclusion of no Sunday text apart from what's in the Mass lectionary being only part of it. That's why I was wondering about the experience of it.
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The subject of religious ceremonial is one which has a special faculty for stirring strong feeling. --W. H. Frere
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the Ćnglican:
I find several things about this lectionary odd, the inclusion of no Sunday text apart from what's in the Mass lectionary being only part of it. That's why I was wondering about the experience of it.
Welcome to my world... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
I have used the ELW office off and on, including the RCL-based daily lectionary. A few thoughts, respective of the fact that most here have probably never encountered it:
Concerning the lectionary:
It is structured to support the readings on the nearest Sunday. The days leading up to Sunday (Thursday-Saturday) anticipate the next Sunday, and the days following (Monday-Wednesday) are reflections on the prior Sunday.
The Psalter pattern that accompanies the lectionary is ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif) . All of the three days preceding Sunday actually use the Sunday Psalm reading. All of the three reflecting days use a related Psalm.
Two readings per day--except Sunday--are appointed. The readings are meant to either anticipate or reflect Sunday's three readings. Sometimes that means we get the verses immediately preceding or following a Sunday reading. Sometimes there is a typological connection of the sort where the Song of Hannah from 1 Samuel would be used to accompany the Song of Mary in Luke 1. Sometimes the connection is much less explicit. Because there are two daily readings and three Sunday readings, one always has to do a bit of thinking to figure out what relates to what.
Martin's personal reaction: The only way I've ever been able to really appreciate the purpose of this lectionary is to read all of the related Sunday readings each and every day, and to reflect on how the daily readings might actually connect to it. Some days this is far more difficult than others. A person with a better memory might be able to read the Sunday readings once and remember them. I find this to be an annoying and inefficient way to handle readings. Furthermore, the absence of Sunday office readings is extremely annoying. After using this lectionary for quite a while during the development and adoption phase of ELW, I have decided to use it again only if I become desparately and hopelessly bored with everything else. Even then, I imagine the work required to use it will send me back screaming to something more meditative and less scholarly.
I much prefer using the Daily Eucharistic readings (from Lesser Feasts and Fasts). Quick readings, but still covers the big points in two years.
The only way I can see the RCL Daily Lectionary being of any use is for a pastor who wants to make scriptural allusions in his sermon, and has no idea where to begin. In that case, the daily lections could be mined for connections.
Concerning the ELW office:
I have made my peace with the office. It must be understood that it is blatantly written to be used as a corporate office--a church service, complete with music...and do recall that any self-respecting Lutheran church service must be at least one hour long and include music.
The ELW office, taken as a whole from start to finish without omitting anything, takes me far longer to pray than a simple BCP79 office taken from start to finish without omitting anything. Realistically, there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two. The pattern remains basically the same.
Side note concerning liturgical reductionists:
What's the point of enshrining reductionism into the book liturgy? Just don't use the book if you don't want to.
Concerning daily worship in the ELCA
There is still a bit of confusion in the ELCA concerning daily services. We do not have a daily eucharistic lectionary. In the olden days, the suggestion was to use the Sunday readings and propers until Saturday afternoon of the next weekend. Now, that doesn't make much sense. I do vaguely recall reading somewhere a suggestion that, with the new Thursday-to-Wednesday "week," it would be better to start using the related Sunday's propers on the Thursday before and continue them until the next Wednesday.
Concerning the liturgical struggles:
Some of our foremost liturgists who were instrumental in making LBW what it was, have stated a vote of no confidence in ELW. Here is some interesting reading from Pratteicher, a popular Lutheran liturgist and a pastor retired from our nosebleed high First Lutheran, Pittsburgh.
[ 22. December 2010, 18:00: Message edited by: Martin L ]
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malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
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Posted
From Pfatteicher's blog post to which Martin L linked i noticed one factual discrepancy:
quote:
The pattern of the two major offices of Matins and Vespers, in which the Gospel Canticle comes before the prayers, is imposed upon the shape of the quite different office of Compline, and the result is that the lovely and satisfying conclusion of that quiet office which joins the end of the day with the end of life is destroyed. In the Roman, Anglican, LBW, and LW/LSB tradition, Compline has its distinctive form, and after the prayer and Our Father, the Nunc Dimittis is sung to conclude the prayer in an extraordinarily effective and moving way. With Simeon, we are ready to sleep, whether until morning or until the resurrection.
Hope this isn't too big a quote. Anyway, as a matter of fact in the Roman LoH the Nunc Dimittus is in a position analogous to the gospel canticles in Matins and Vespers/Evening Prayer, i.e., after the (short) reading and before the prayers. (This is also where the Nunc Dimittus is located in the Canadian BCP compline as well as (I think) the C. of E.'s Common Worship).
Actually i have had the thought that one could still have an effective and beautiful ending to compline even with the Nunc Dimittus in the same place as the other gospel canticles. I.e., one could move to the end of the office the responsory "Into your hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit".
[ 22. December 2010, 19:17: Message edited by: malik3000 ]
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
Anyway, as a matter of fact in the Roman LoH the Nunc Dimittus is in a position analogous to the gospel canticles in Matins and Vespers/Evening Prayer, i.e., after the (short) reading and before the prayers. (This is also where the Nunc Dimittus is located in the Canadian BCP compline as well as (I think) the C. of E.'s Common Worship).
I am surprised he would make that mistake.
I should have pointed out earlier that there is a table called "Supplemental Psalms for Daily Prayer" in Appendix F of Keeping Time, a supplemental ELW resource that explains/clarifies some options possible for the liturgical year and for the daily office. I believe it's the same table as that provided in LBW, but I haven't compared them closely.
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
The first installments of the music of the Sarum psalter and antiphonary, in English, are up. The extent of the project reaches further than G H Palmer's earlier Sarum Diurnal Noted.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
This is unrelated to Oblatus' question but does anyone have LA's Monastic Diurnal Noted or St. Dunstan's Psalter and if so are they worth the purchase?
I have them both and would answer Yes, without hesitation. Rich resources.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
My Revised Grail Psalter books are set to arrive today. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
They're here: the plain one and the Singing Version. Same size. Both nicely printed. Need to study them and pray the psalms in the Office.
One disappointment: Why are USA publishers of the Grail (GIA now) allergic to the idea of putting in the asterisk or other mark to indicate the half-verse division for plainsong tones? The UK Divine Office books by Collins manage to include both the Gelineau pointing (accents) and the asterisk.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Any other Daily Office/LotH news?
I doubt it will tempt many people here, but take a look at Bread for the Day, an ELCA office book from AF.
For each day of the year, there is a page containing part of one of the RCL:Daily readings, the citations for all the appointed readings, a handcrafted prayer, and a hymn suggestion.
In the back of the book are the bare minimum, pared down, offices from ELW, along with tiny bios for those commemorated. There are also extra morsels here and there such as a prayer of blessing over the Easter food.
My opinions on RCL:Daily have been vocalized already. However, I do have hope that this book--put out by the Conference of Bishops--will help to plant the "Daily Office" seed in the ELCA roster.
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FatherRobLyons
Shipmate
# 14622
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Posted
Having used the Revised Grail Psalms throughout this week of prayer, I must say that I am quite disappointed in them, mainly because no matter how hard I try to put the classic Grail phrasing out of my mind, I cannot.
I find this revision to be far clunkier than I'd prefer, at least at this juncture. In part, this may be because I am reading them off a computer screen (my review copies haven't arrived yet - perhaps today?), but I am trying to keep an open mind.
I have to admit, though, that flaws aside, I still much prefer the original 63 Grail to any revision of it I have yet seen.
Rob+
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FatherRobLyons:
Having used the Revised Grail Psalms throughout this week of prayer, I must say that I am quite disappointed in them, mainly because no matter how hard I try to put the classic Grail phrasing out of my mind, I cannot.
I find this revision to be far clunkier than I'd prefer, at least at this juncture. In part, this may be because I am reading them off a computer screen (my review copies haven't arrived yet - perhaps today?), but I am trying to keep an open mind.
This blog post does a good job of putting into words the unease I've always felt about the Grail translation. I like the phrase, "It insists upon itself." Quite.
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Jon in the Nati
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# 15849
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Posted
quote:
Peter says that he doesn’t like the film The Godfather because, “It insists upon itself.” The prose of the Grail insists. It demands that we notice that something new, fresh, and bold is happening. Sadly, its newness, freshness, and boldness are contemporary with Sanka, Tab, and Birdseye Frozen Vegetables.
This is actually a really good quote, and like Oblatus, I feel that it captures well not only how I feel about some translations of the psalter, but also about some of the Eucharistic prayers we have in the US (notably C, parts of D, and some of those in Enriching our Worship). Frankly, I wish I'd been able to say it as well.
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Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
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FatherRobLyons
Shipmate
# 14622
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
This blog post does a good job of putting into words the unease I've always felt about the Grail translation. I like the phrase, "It insists upon itself." Quite. [/QB]
Well, it's been a full week now, and while I don't quite have the same reaction, I can't fault it, either. I find the RGP language to be just too wooden and stilted. The orignial Grail did not suffer from this, but it seems to me that the changes made have simply lessened the appeal of the translation.
I now must consider if it is time to part ways with the Grail Psalter... Psalms 4 and 91 are deeply engrained within me from the Grail (yes, moved verses and all!) and, to this day, echo through my mind at many moments. But... I have to say that it may be time for me to just bite the bullet and use the 79 BCP Psalter.
Interestingly, earlier this year, Paraclete Press came out with an NIV Psalter. I have long disliked the NIV, but I have to admit, the Psalter was good (at least as PP presented it). Now the NIV has been revised and from what I can tell, not for the better. After March, the original NIV texts will be unavaliable.
Rob+
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Dragging this from out of the depths--- Does anyone use a homebrew lectionary for their DO? .
I'm annoyed with the length of the current lectionary readings. I read super-fast, and thanks to my learning style, I don't really retain anything I haven't read multiple times, but I can't sit and read a passage multiple times (ADD Woman to the rescue! After I look at this shiny thing over here!)
Meditative reading a la Lecto Divina is right out. Tried it, didn't work. Tried it again, really didn't work. Have to sit through it on Wednesday nights as part of a class, it makes me want to pull my teeth out.
I'm thinking of just reading two chapters from the OT and the NT at each Office, and barreling straight through.
Thoughts? Comments? "Don't do it, woman, you're insane!"s?
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
I'm thinking of just reading two chapters from the OT and the NT at each Office, and barreling straight through.
Thoughts? Comments? "Don't do it, woman, you're insane!"s?
I think that sounds like a good plan that will work for you. Do it! I've sometimes tried the 1549 BCP lectionary, which goes a whole chapter at a time (mostly), but it sounds like that wouldn't be enough. Do the two chapters.
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Sounds like a plan.
For a while there (long, LONG ago) I was reading five chapters a day--one from the Pentateuch, Writings, Prophets, Gospels, and Everything Else. It was really cool, but it took a good chunk of time.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
I'm thinking of just reading two chapters from the OT and the NT at each Office, and barreling straight through.
Thoughts? Comments? "Don't do it, woman, you're insane!"s?
Oh, Spiffy! It really depends on your excitement level. It is so easy to get bogged down in so many lengthy parts of the Old Testament. Perhaps consider skipping around from book to book, rather than going Genesis to Malachi. Read in time order instead, perhaps? Could be an interesting perspective. You'll know by the end of Leviticus whether you're able to continue with the 2-chapters plan!
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
It really depends on your excitement level. It is so easy to get bogged down in so many lengthy parts of the Old Testament. Perhaps consider skipping around from book to book, rather than going Genesis to Malachi. Read in time order instead, perhaps? Could be an interesting perspective. You'll know by the end of Leviticus whether you're able to continue with the 2-chapters plan!
Probably should have mentioned that before I even knew what the Daily Office was, I read 6 chapters in the AM and 6 chapters in the PM, along with a section from the Psalms.
It took me 20 minutes to read 6 chapters. I wasn't kidding when I said I read fast.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
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FatherRobLyons
Shipmate
# 14622
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Posted
I am currently brewing up a Daily Lectionary to use for the Office. I find that me and my people function best when given a single narrative (whenever possible) to focus on, one with a central message. So, using a Chronological Bible, I have ordered readings in chronological order, covering all of the New Testament (though parallel accounts are omitted) and condensing the Old Testament. During Advent, Lent, and Easter, there Daily Readings come from Isaiah, other minor prophets, and the Gospels (emphasizing mystagogical catechesis).
Each reading will then be paired with a patristic text that speaks to that particular passage directly, or to the concepts in the passage in general.
Currently, there are 881 unique Scriptural units to this schema of readings. By my estimate, that makes for 4 years.
I have also considered using a one year Chronological Bible, but the idea of spending January to September in the Old Testament with little relief isn't exactly appealing to me, and the length of the readings would take my morning vigils to, at my best guess, an hour in length. While I might manage that with determination, I can promise that, at this point, nobody in my congregation is going to be remotely interested in that kind of investment. :sigh:
Rob+
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Any other Daily Office/LotH news?
Ignatius Press recently published a volume for the complete Office of Compline from the modern Liturgy of the Hours with Gregorian Chant set by Fr. Samual Weber. Fr. Weber also set the official English translation to chant tones so anybody who want to sing this office can sing it in Latin or English every day of the year.
The Office of Compline
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
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John H
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# 9599
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Posted
Has anyone here tried the new (2010) edition of The Daily Office SSF? This is the "Franciscan" version of Celebrating Common Prayer, and has been updated to reflect Common Worship texts. (No update of CCP, as Common Worship: Daily Prayer is seen as fulfilling that role.)
I hope it's not in poor taste to post a link to my own review...
As with the previous books in the SSF/CCP tradition, the order for night prayer adopts the practice abhorred by Revd Pfatteicher (see above) of using the same structure as for morning and evening prayer, in particular having the Nunc Dimittis before the prayers.
Personally I find the consistency of structure helpful, and the conclusion provides a beautiful, restful and prayerful end to the office anyway:
quote:
In peace, we will lie down and sleep;
for you alone, Lord, make us dwell in safety.
Abide with us, Lord Jesus,
for the night is at hand and the day is now past.
As the night-watch looks for the morning,
so do we look for you, O Christ.
[BLESSING]
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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."
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malik3000
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# 11437
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Posted
I got the new Daily Office SSF not long ago and i like it. I'm fairly consistent at the moment in using the US '79 BCP office, but i've added bits and pieces of the SSF book from time to time. If i was planning to switch it certainly would be a contender.
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
I've done some searching on this thread, and I don't think I've seen anything about this, so here goes.
Does anyone know of online daily office/daily prayer resources which would suit a teenager? He's just got an iPod and is using it to look at the Bible, but I'm wondering if there is something which would enable him to access prayer resources. They don't need to be self-consciously youth oriented or 'cool', they do need to be accessible for someone who is exploring on his own and doesn't have lots of opportunities to pray with others?
The most likely things I've seen so far are what the {url=http://www.northumbriacommunity.org/pray-the-daily-office/morning-prayer]Northumbria Community[/url] offers (link is to morning prayer), or Sacred Space. In principle I'd like to use Anglican/CofE resources, but the CW::DP offering online seems a bit heavy for a youngster starting out.
I'd be glad for any thoughts.
[ 08. February 2011, 15:54: Message edited by: BroJames ]
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BroJames
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Sorry about the typo in the Northumbria link. If a kindly host can edit I'd be very grateful.
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Pancho
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Have you thought about Taizé? Their website has a page for Prayer and Song which could be useful. It has a link to mp3 and podcasts.
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
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If one were to sing the CCP or CW:DP psalms daily, which chants might one use? I'm using these at the moment, from St Meinrad. Although intended for The Grail, they work well enough with CCP with a little intelligence. Any other suggestions, please?
Originally, the mode of the Antiphon would have set the mode of the psalm. How do we do this today? Currently, I rotate in sequence but this doesn't help with the aural association of text to music.
Any thoughts, learned ones?
Thanks
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
If one were to sing the CCP or CW:DP psalms daily, which chants might one use? I'm using these at the moment, from St Meinrad. Although intended for The Grail, they work well enough with CCP with a little intelligence. Any other suggestions, please?
Originally, the mode of the Antiphon would have set the mode of the psalm. How do we do this today? Currently, I rotate in sequence but this doesn't help with the aural association of text to music.
There are also Fr. Samuel Weber OSB's two-line psalm tones (PDF) for The Mundelein Psalter. The file has some good introductory material and then two pages laying out the psalm tones by mode.
Also have a look at The Julian Chantbook, in two big PDFs. I've printed them off and put them in a binder for chanting. I recently figured out that the tone selections match, for the most part, those in the old navy-blue Plainsong Psalter used with the 1928 USA BCP psalter. The Julian book uses the 1979 BCP psalms, whose text is similar to CW's but with many differences.
How to choose tones if you've got a psalter without them? I just look up the psalms in a psalter that has tones assigned and see what tone is used. The Julian Chantbook can work for that, too: say you want to chant Ps. 98 in the CW psalter using an appropriate Fr. Weber two-line tone from the first link above. Just look up Ps. 98 in the Julian Chantbook; you'll find it's paired with tone VI A. Fr. Weber gives two tones for mode VI: VI F and VI g. I'd go with VI g, as it's closest to VI A.
[ 19. February 2011, 20:30: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
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Manipled Mutineer
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Recently picked up a copy of the 1967 Short Dominican Breviary (which contains Lauds, Vespers and Compline from the full breviary.) It uses the Grail Psalter, which I was not really familiar with before. I actually quite liked it. I was thinking of praying it through the 'Gesimas and Lent but decided to lend it to a friend who was a Dominican Tertiary instead. Has anyone else tried it?
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sebby
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This is always an interesting and a very long lived thread.
Although it has been said before and often by me, what wins every time, whatever the quality of the translation, whatever the ecclesiastical origin of the compilers, almost whatever the content, is that it should all, every bit of it, be in ONE BOOK.
The admirable SSF office and CW etc all require a bible and sometimes a lectionary. This is ridiculous when travelling. You just want to pull out the book from your pocket and say the office. I once mentioned this to Brother Tristram SSF and that erudite and holy man just stammered and stuttered.
That is why the Roman one wins for me. Or, and thank the Lord for it, downloads to the iPhone. Although the later can't be used in war zones, in my military career it was so useful to pull out an office book from one's uniform and just say the Office, often in a dusty compound, just to keep one sane. The one book option needs exploring further, i think.
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sebhyatt
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sebby
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There is a one book option for CCP but, sadly, the material has always appeared to be quite sparse and not really favourable for continuous repetition. However, it was a very good idea.
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sebhyatt
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
There is a one book option for CCP but, sadly, the material has always appeared to be quite sparse and not really favourable for continuous repetition. However, it was a very good idea.
This post from an Anglican Breviary blog has some good reflection on the benefits of a one-book Office. What it doesn't mention is that the BCP Office can be one-book if you get a volume that has the lessons in it. Expensive but one book.
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malik3000
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quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
There is a one book option for CCP but, sadly, the material has always appeared to be quite sparse and not really favourable for continuous repetition. However, it was a very good idea.
This post from an Anglican Breviary blog has some good reflection on the benefits of a one-book Office. What it doesn't mention is that the BCP Office can be one-book if you get a volume that has the lessons in it. Expensive but one book.
Or you can get a regular BCP bound together with the Bible -- it works well for me, especially when i'm traveling. Admittedly the type in the Bible section is quite small indeed, but I have a couple of plastic bookmarks which are also magnifiers and they work well for me.
This is what i regularly use for the office. I hasten to add that when i am home i do frequently add elements from other office-related books in my library, e.g., the Roman Rite Liturgy of the Hours, or Celebrating Common Prayer, for alternate canticles, and sometimes Celebrating the Seasons to add a 2nd extrabiblical reading to Evening Prayer.
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mimmi
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I agree that one book helps.
I like the Roman Catholic 'Magnificat' book produced each month with two simple offices for everyday of the month in it.
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malik3000
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quote:
Originally posted by mimmi:
I agree that one book helps.
I like the Roman Catholic 'Magnificat' book produced each month with two simple offices for everyday of the month in it.
I don't think i've heard about this one. Office geeks such as me want to know more.
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
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mimmi
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malik3000, here is the Magnificat website
I think it may be too short or simple for some people here, but I am finding it refreshingly simple in this stage of my spiritual journey.
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Pancho
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Magnificat has a website with information here: Magnificat
It's a monthly publication that's sort of a combined hand missal/office book/daily devotional. It contains the Order of Mass and for every day of the month it has the readings and Missal propers plus a meditation for the day. These are sandwiched between simple orders of Morning and Evening Prayer based on the Liturgy of the Hours: hymn, 1 psalm, short reading, Gospel Canticle, intercessions, Our Father, and Marian Antiphon after the Evening Prayer. Each day ends with a short piece on the saint of the day. There's additional material too, like an order of Night Prayer, essays on a work of sacred art or a hymn of the month, etc.
It's really good and packs a lot of material in a pocket-sized magazine. The only thing is that it's a bit expensive but you can ask for a sample copy . They also publish other material, like a Lenten Companion. Oooh, now I see they're publishing resources on the new translation of the Missal (see here ).
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
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