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Source: (consider it) Thread: Daily Office (yet again)
Pancho
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Slightly off topic. I use Christian Prayer. It does not have some of the new feasts, such as Juan Diego for 9 December. Are the propers for this feast online anywhere?

New Yorker, I'm really sorry I didn't have enough time to answer this yesterday but but when I get a chance (today or tomorrow)I'll share the propers given in the Latin American edition of the Liturgy of the Hours, under Proper of the Saints for Mexico. Quick outline: the 2nd Reading of the Office of Readings is from a speech given by John Paul II on St. Juan Diego (I think for his canonization), a responsory, and a closing prayer. The rest may be taken from the Common of Holy Men and Women. I'll give the details later.

Maybe it's too late for this year but there's always next. In the meantime you could pray his office as a private devotion, as I might if I miss a favored saint's feast day.

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cg
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*Bumping this thread with a query about minutiæ*

My (newly acquired) secondhand Monastic Diurnal (OUP, 1932, 1940 reprint) has verse 116 of Psalm 119 (Monday at Terce) printed entirely in upper case. I can't see anything about that in the rubrics, so it is perhaps a typographical error (rare for the OUP). Or does anyone have an alternative explanation? Maybe those using the Lancelot Andrewes Monastic Diurnal or other OUP reprints would check to see if it is printed like that in their edition.

Not that it matters of course. I'm simply curious.

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T.B.Cherubim
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My 1956 reprint of the Monastic Diurnal does not have this peculiarity. Perhaps it was a very unusual OUP mistake?

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Vaticanchic
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What do people do about the Breviary's Common of Doctors of the Church when a female doctor is celebrated? The liturgy for Doctors conflates so much with Pastors, and indeed uses heavily masculine language in its own brief section.

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Adam.

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Common of Holy Women.

I know people who use Common of Virgins, but I don't like this.

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cg
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quote:
Originally posted by T.B.Cherubim:
My 1956 reprint of the Monastic Diurnal does not have this peculiarity. Perhaps it was a very unusual OUP mistake?

Thanks for checking. Mine was printed in wartime, after all.
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by cg:
quote:
Originally posted by T.B.Cherubim:
My 1956 reprint of the Monastic Diurnal does not have this peculiarity. Perhaps it was a very unusual OUP mistake?

Thanks for checking. Mine was printed in wartime, after all.
The Lancelot Andrewes Press reprint has the all-caps verse. An extra-fervent wartime plea, perhaps, as you suggest.
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The Silent Acolyte

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This isn't Kerygmania with its requirements, but may I ask if this is the verse? Sustain me according to your promise, that I may live. and let me not be disappointed in my hope.
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Prosfonesis:
This isn't Kerygmania with its requirements, but may I ask if this is the verse? Sustain me according to your promise, that I may live. and let me not be disappointed in my hope.

That is correct. Just that verse is printed in caps and small caps in some editions of the Oxford/Canon Douglas Monastic Diurnal.
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The Silent Acolyte

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Be it far from me to accuse the sacred psalmist of being a One-tune Charlie, from Aleph to Taw, and I congratulate him for saying practically the same thing 176 times, but I thought good to get the verse quoted to help figure out why it, alone, over its many brothers and sisters, gets this treatment. Was it someone's motto, perhaps?
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chiltern_hundred
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Maybe this capitalised psalm verse will feature as a clue in a future Da Vinci Code-style novel or conspiracy book about a Western-Rite Orthodox Plot ...
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cg
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You could be on the right track, chiltern_hundred. Given the date (1940), it may be like that for the Use of the Enigma Code-cracking team. However, the LA press edition was (I think) produced as a facsimile of the first OUP edition (1932) so it's likely that it dates back to then and is not a wartime slip after all. Does anyone have the 1932 or 1935 edition?

The LA Press Monastic Matins is not without an occasional more ordinary typo: Ps. 68:13 (Wed. p.54) where 'Thou' should be 'Though'.

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Extol
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quote:
Originally posted by cg:
However, the LA press edition was (I think) produced as a facsimile of the first OUP edition (1932) so it's likely that it dates back to then and is not a wartime slip after all.

The LAP edition is a resetting of the 1963 OOP edition. Note the second set of rubrics in the front, which implement the 1960s reforms to the use of the Breviarium.
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Spiffy
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Ladies and Gentlemen:

The O Antiphons.

Who's doin' 'em?

[ 18. December 2008, 02:05: Message edited by: Spiffy ]

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chiltern_hundred
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Spiffy, you mean

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/church_year/sapientiatide_the_great_o_anti.php

(web address corrected, but I don't do UBB code yet)

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Manipled Mutineer
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Oh yes! (But then they are in the breviary I use anyway.)

--------------------
Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
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cg
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian M:
The LAP edition is a resetting of the 1963 OOP edition. Note the second set of rubrics in the front, which implement the 1960s reforms to the use of the Breviarium.[/QB]

I don't have a copy of the LAP edition so I was guessing. But that just makes T.B.Cherubim's 1956 reprint where the mistake has been corrected (i.e. putting the verse in question into lower case) all the more odd. Why would anyone have restored an evident error? Perhaps the LAP resetting in fact used the text of an earlier OUP reprint than that of 1963 and the second set of rubrics was all that came from the 1963 reprint.
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New Yorker
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What? Everyone is still using printed materials for the Daily Office? Why not iBreviary?
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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by chiltern_hundred:
Spiffy, you mean

[url=http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/church_year/sapientiatide_the_great_o_anti.php ]link[/url]

(web address corrected, but I don't do UBB code yet)

Erm, yes. [Hot and Hormonal] You will all be pleased to know that my bifocals will be ready on St. Stephen's Day, so that the characters on the screen will actually resemble letters instead of pretty grey blobs.

quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
What? Everyone is still using printed materials for the Daily Office? Why not iBreviary?

You buy me the iPhone, and I'll use the iBreviary.

[Edit: to fix scroll lock.]

[ 21. April 2009, 17:26: Message edited by: Hart ]

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Manipled Mutineer
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
What? Everyone is still using printed materials for the Daily Office? Why not iBreviary?

My S. Barnabas Society and Pius XII holy cards won't stay in it.

--------------------
Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by chiltern_hundred:
Spiffy, you mean

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/church_year/sapientiatide_the_great_o_anti.php

(web address corrected, but I don't do UBB code yet)

[pedantic tangent] The writer of the article is incorrect in saying that the O Antiphons are not included in any official Anglican liturgy. ( Maybe he meant 'in the USA' ). Common Worship: Daily Prayer of the C OF E prints them, beginning with O Sapientia on 17 December in line with modern RC practice. [/pedantic tangent]

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The Silent Acolyte

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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
What? Everyone is still using printed materials for the Daily Office? Why not iBreviary?

Cuz, it's not a book.

Next question?

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cg
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
What? Everyone is still using printed materials for the Daily Office? Why not iBreviary?

I was using online resouces (not iBreviary) before my printed Monastic Diurnal and Monastic Matins arrived, but I didn't feel that I was truly praying the Office. Using the books allows me to bow, stand or kneel as appropriate, pause for reflection, and so forth, and generally feel that I making the prayer my own. It also allows me to have more electronic-free time in my day.
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Ignatius' Acolyte
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Welcome aboard, cg!

Ps 119:116, "Sustain me O God," cited earlier, is the key verse in the Benedictine monastic profession rite. It is thrice chanted responsively by the professing monk and the choir, each time in a higher pitch.

I suppose that whoever printed the book may also have had that in mind...

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cg
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Ah, thank you so much, Paul of A. That's a wonderfully satisfying explanation, and I'm sure it's the correct one.
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Pancho
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quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
I'll share the propers given in the Latin American edition of the Liturgy of the Hours

Sorry I couldn't get back to this sooner but I supppose it's better late than never. Here are my somewhat awkward translations of the propers for St. Juan Diego from the Latin American LOTH:

In the Office of Readings, the second respnsory is based on 1 Corinthians 1:27-29 and St. Luke 1:51-52.

R. God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong, even that which is worth nothing, * so that no one can boast before God.

V. He made felt the strength of His arm and exalted the humble.

R. So that no one can boast before God.

The second reading is from the decree of canonization. I couldn't find the text online. I could translate it too, but am not sure if it would be ok to post it.

The final prayer for his feast goes like this:

"O God of ours, who by means of the blessed Juan Diego showed your people the love of the most holy Virgin Mary, grant us by his intercession, that by obeying the counsels of our Mother of Guadalupe, we may always accomplish your will. Through Our Lord Jesus Christ your son."

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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

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scribbler
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I just got ibreviary today for my new iPhone. Very wonderful for the price. Sure, it is not a substitute for the romance and resonance of a book, but the app was ideal for praying vespers while waiting for "Frost/Nixon" to start. Where were the dead trees then?
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New Yorker
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quote:
Originally posted by scribbler:
I just got ibreviary today for my new iPhone. Very wonderful for the price. Sure, it is not a substitute for the romance and resonance of a book, but the app was ideal for praying vespers while waiting for "Frost/Nixon" to start. Where were the dead trees then?

Is it available in English? If so, from whom?
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by scribbler:
I just got ibreviary today for my new iPhone. Very wonderful for the price. Sure, it is not a substitute for the romance and resonance of a book, but the app was ideal for praying vespers while waiting for "Frost/Nixon" to start. Where were the dead trees then?

Is it available in English? If so, from whom?
From iTunes, I'm told.
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Thurible
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quote:
Originally posted by cg:
Using the books allows me to bow, stand or kneel as appropriate, pause for reflection, and so forth, and generally feel that I making the prayer my own.

Having recently been reunited with the majority of my library, I'm back to prayerbooks but, when praying the office at my computer, I manage to do all the above. It's a lot harder to feel inclined so to do but managable.

Thurible

[ 29. December 2008, 22:37: Message edited by: Thurible ]

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the Ænglican
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quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
[pedantic tangent] The writer of the article is incorrect in saying that the O Antiphons are not included in any official Anglican liturgy. ( Maybe he meant 'in the USA' ). Common Worship: Daily Prayer of the C OF E prints them, beginning with O Sapientia on 17 December in line with modern RC practice. [/pedantic tangent]

Hmm--didn't know that. In which case I would have said something like "hasn't appeared in any official Anglican liturgy until the current English Common Worship" or some such. The point is that the date occurs in the kalendar, but the antiphons are absent from the books--until now.

Correction duly noted...

[Edit: code]

[ 31. December 2008, 10:08: Message edited by: Hart ]

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Curiosity killed ...

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The O Antiphons are in Celebrating Common Prayer too. It was pretty much official use in Salisbury in the 90s.

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the Ænglican
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Well--that just goes to show that I need to read up on the English materials post 1928... [Razz]

Thanks for the further correction!

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The subject of religious ceremonial is one which has a special faculty for stirring strong feeling. --W. H. Frere

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Mockingbird

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quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by chiltern_hundred:
Spiffy, you mean

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/daily/church_year/sapientiatide_the_great_o_anti.php


The writer of the article is incorrect in saying that the O Antiphons are not included in any official Anglican liturgy. ( Maybe he meant 'in the USA' ). Common Worship: Daily Prayer of the C OF E prints them, beginning with O Sapientia on 17 December in line with modern RC practice.
He also errs when he says "If the missing optional antiphon is used, it should be used on the 23rd and the others moved back one day".

He means that the others should be moved forward one day. When something happens sooner than otherwise, it is moved forward.

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cg
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At least those of us who pray the Office can celebrate Epiphany on the right day, even if none of our local churches do. But can anyone explain to me a quirk of the Epiphany monastic Office that has been puzzling me. Both the Matins and Vespers hymn Hostis Herodes impie, and the antiphons for the Benedictus and the Magnificat in the Lauds and II Vespers respectively of the Epiphany (in the Monastic Diurnal) seem to be celebrating the Epiphany in combination with the Baptism of Jesus and with the miracle at Cana. Was there once a tradition that that all three feasts were jointly celebrated?
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dj_ordinaire
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quote:
Originally posted by cg:
At least those of us who pray the Office can celebrate Epiphany on the right day, even if none of our local churches do. But can anyone explain to me a quirk of the Epiphany monastic Office that has been puzzling me. Both the Matins and Vespers hymn Hostis Herodes impie, and the antiphons for the Benedictus and the Magnificat in the Lauds and II Vespers respectively of the Epiphany (in the Monastic Diurnal) seem to be celebrating the Epiphany in combination with the Baptism of Jesus and with the miracle at Cana. Was there once a tradition that that all three feasts were jointly celebrated?

More accurately - the Epiphany consists of three thematically linked aspects. The Adoration of the Magi, the Baptism of Christ and the Miracle at Cana. In these three ways, Christ was revealed as Messiah before all the Nations, in preparation for His earthly ministry.

Because of its proximity to Christmas, the arrival of the Magi at the Christ-Child is the part which has been most emphasised in the Western Church for some centuries now. The Baptism has been moved onto a Feast of its own whilst the first Miracle forms the Gospel reading of the Sunday following. However, historically all three were part of the same Feast and there are still many refernces to this lurking around, especially in older works.

Does this help?
[Smile]

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cg
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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
historically all three were part of the same Feast and there are still many refernces to this lurking around, especially in older works.

Does this help?
[Smile]

Yes, indeed it does. Thank you for enlarging my understanding, and confirming my guess by putting my query into its full context.
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ken
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The CofE Common Worship lectionary prescribes Isaiah 60 ("Arise, shine for your light has come") & John 2 (water into wine) for the Evening Prayer service for Epiphany - we used them on Sunday.

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Ken

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the Ænglican
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The medieval Golden Legend also states that in addition to the preceding three it was the day on which Christ fed the five thousand, citing Bede. (I'm wary of this--it's not in his Epiphany sermons that I know of but I haven't checked his commentaries...)

The antiphon on the Mag for 2nd Vespers makes the first three explicit.

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The subject of religious ceremonial is one which has a special faculty for stirring strong feeling. --W. H. Frere

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Manipled Mutineer
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quote:
Originally posted by the Ænglican:
The medieval Golden Legend also states that in addition to the preceding three it was the day on which Christ fed the five thousand, citing Bede. (I'm wary of this--it's not in his Epiphany sermons that I know of but I haven't checked his commentaries...)


Interesting; this link was mentioned during the homily at the Mass I attended yesterday.

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the Ænglican
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Fascinating! The Golden Legend is the earliest source I can find for this tradition. As I said it's not in Bede AFAIK, nor is it mentioned by Rabanus Maurus nor tenth century English sources.

Anybody know differently?

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Autenrieth Road

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Matins from Saint Dunstan's Plainsong Psalter (Lancelot Andrewes Press, 2002), page 145:

First psquiggle: Venite... there are a zillion settings, for this and other canticles. How do you choose which setting to use? Also, do you choose the same Tone or Mode for all the canticles (mentioned in later psquiigles), or do you mix and match?

Second psquiggle: What is an Office Hymn? Is it included in this book? If not, where do you find it? How do you choose it?

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
What is an Office Hymn? Is it included in this book? If not, where do you find it? How do you choose it?

This is a hymn proper to the day, season, or feast, which was sung before the gospel canticle in the breviary offices and is often added to BCP offices by Anglo-Catholics. Your best bet may be to pick up a copy of the ENGLISH HYMNAL (NOT the NEW ENGLISH HYMNAL) and follow Fr. Dearmer's handy tables in the back for appropriate hymns at "M" and "E."
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Mama Thomas
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The Anglican Breviary has an even better selection than the EH--ALL of them. TECs 1940 has at least 8 office hymns, in very good translation too.

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Autenrieth Road

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Matins from Saint Dunstan's Plainsong Psalter (Lancelot Andrewes Press, 2002), page 145:

That should be page 247.

Thank you, Brian M and Mama Thomas, about the office hymns. My bedside table currently has BCP 1979, Bible RSV, St. Dunstans', and Hymnal 1982. Looks like there's room for Anglican Breviary (oh, that seductive word all) and Hymnal 1940 (the hymnal I grew up with).

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Mama Thomas
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Thank you Lord, for J.M. Neale. Amen. He did wonders to bring the glories of early Latin (and Eastern!) Christian spirituality to the English speaking world. But I don't want to sound 'bad' but the 1982 seems to waffle between the droning monotony of its heavy organ/choir pieces and unsingable service music and cutesy 70s ditties.

There is real meat in the office hymns. Not at all sure why they were eliminated in the 82 as such (though a few are there without being marked as such).

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Autenrieth Road

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Ah, turns out St. Dunstan's gives more info in §17, "The Office Hymn," pages 237-238. In addition to the English Hymnal and 1940 Hymnal, it cites Saint Ambrose Hymnal and Hymns Ancient And Modern as sources for most or some of them. However it misses Mama Thomas' wonderful citation of Anglican Breviary for all of them.

Another question:

Saint Dunstan's says: "As with all Gospel canticles, the intonation to the tone is sung throughout the canticle, at the beginning of each verse." (e.g. § 14, page 236; § 19, page 238.) Why?

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Saint Dunstan's says: "As with all Gospel canticles, the intonation to the tone is sung throughout the canticle, at the beginning of each verse." (e.g. § 14, page 236; § 19, page 238.) Why?

Good question! It says here that it's "for the sake of solemnity."

And that makes sense, to me: the Gospel Canticles are important, and sort of the centerpiece of each Office - so they get more emphasis, and this is a good way to do it.

I do wonder how old this custom is, though....

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Extol
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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
St. Dunstan's gives more info in §17, "The Office Hymn," pages 237-238. In addition to the English Hymnal and 1940 Hymnal, it cites Saint Ambrose Hymnal and Hymns Ancient And Modern as sources for most or some of them. However it misses Mama Thomas' wonderful citation of Anglican Breviary for all of them.

Nice as that is, its usefulness may depend on whether you plan to observe the full Universal Kalendar in the AB, or the more simplified kalendar found in most classic BCPs. I found that when I wanted to keep up with, say, the actual 1979 US BCP kalendar, it was easier to consult Fr. Dearmer's tables in the back of the English Hymnal and nail the hymn in one than to ask myself, "should I use the Matins or Lauds hymn, should I observe this lesser feast, on this day, etc."
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Autenrieth Road

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Ah, that is excellently helpful, Brian M. English Hymnal sounds like the right thing for me.

[ETA: I wonder what the Saint Ambrose Hymnal is. Have I avoided Breviary Collectionitis only to find myself seduced by the siren song of Hymnal Collectionitis?!?]

[ 22. April 2009, 14:58: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]

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