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Source: (consider it) Thread: Daily Office (yet again)
Extol
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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I wonder what the Saint Ambrose Hymnal is.

The SAH is a hymnal used by certain Western Rite Orthodox parishes. It is out of print.
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Fr Weber
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quote:
Originally posted by TubaMirum:
quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Saint Dunstan's says: "As with all Gospel canticles, the intonation to the tone is sung throughout the canticle, at the beginning of each verse." (e.g. § 14, page 236; § 19, page 238.) Why?

Good question! It says here that it's "for the sake of solemnity."

And that makes sense, to me: the Gospel Canticles are important, and sort of the centerpiece of each Office - so they get more emphasis, and this is a good way to do it.

I do wonder how old this custom is, though....

It's at least as old as the Liber Usualis.

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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."

--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM

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Extol
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How do I know what week I am in in Benedictine Daily Prayer, in terms of the short readings? Also, where can the ends of concluding prayers ("through Jesus . . . " etc.) be found in this book?
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catholicedinburgh
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Hello

I hope someone can help me. During Eastertide, the psalms at Compline are chanted to an alternative tone in the Monastic Diurnal Noted. I have heard the tone and it is lovely, however I have forgotten how it goes and when I try it the last section doesn't sound correct. Does anyone have a link where the tone is played please.

Thanks

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scribbler
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Does anyone know if the British Morning and Evening Prayer version of the RC Office differs substantially from its American counterpart, Christian Prayer? I use the latter occasionally, but the '70s kitsch of its illustrations and some of the hymn selections grate on me. I also don't like Christian Prayer's translations of the gospel canticles, but I imagine those might be the same. I'm considering importing Morning and Evening Prayer, but I don't want to pay to ship it across the pond if it's identical to what I already have!
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Thurible
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The hymns are apparently better but I think they're often shoddy and tend to use the English Hymnal with it. It's Morning, Evening and Night Prayer. The psalter is the Grail and the lections tend to be the Jerusalem. The intercessions are alright.

It's at home and I'm not so I'm afraid I can't tell you more at the moment.

Thurible

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Adam.

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You know that the hymn suggestions in LOTH are just that: suggestions? If you don't like them (and some of them are terrible... 44 anyone?), just use another hymnal, or don't sing a hymn. In private use, I only sing a hymn on Sundays or Solemnities. In communal celebrations, we always sing a hymn, but we don't always take it from the book.

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PD
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quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
You know that the hymn suggestions in LOTH are just that: suggestions? If you don't like them (and some of them are terrible... 44 anyone?), just use another hymnal, or don't sing a hymn. In private use, I only sing a hymn on Sundays or Solemnities. In communal celebrations, we always sing a hymn, but we don't always take it from the book.

Some of the hymns in LOTH suck, and some really suck! Being the sort of guy who does the usual Anglo-Catholic mish-mash I use the BCP for MP and EP and LOTH for Office of Readings, Midday Prayer, and Compline. In the case of OOR I have a card with the traditional Matins hymns on it to substitute for the appointed hymns. As I usually say OOR fairly early in the day using the old Matins hymns works OK.

I do wish someone would overhaul LOTH, restoring the traditional hymns at least as alternatives to the present random selections. Some of the 1960s stuff in there is at best blah and at worse barf. The early 1970s was not a good time to be overhauling the liturgy and it is to be hoped that the translation of the Divine Office made them will soon be replaced by something in line with the new translation of the Mass that we are told is coming shortly.

PD

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scribbler
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Thank you for the information. To make matters worse, I usually just say the hymns aloud since I can't carry a tune in a bucket; this just accentuates it. I think I'll consider just omitting them as advised. Part of my problem is lack of consistency: switching between the 1928 BCP (with various lectionaries and supplements) and the RCC office, sprinkled with generous periods of nothing, does not a healthy practice make.

Why am I afraid of Daily Office commitment? [Ultra confused]

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by scribbler:
Thank you for the information. To make matters worse, I usually just say the hymns aloud since I can't carry a tune in a bucket; this just accentuates it. I think I'll consider just omitting them as advised. Part of my problem is lack of consistency: switching between the 1928 BCP (with various lectionaries and supplements) and the RCC office, sprinkled with generous periods of nothing, does not a healthy practice make.

Why am I afraid of Daily Office commitment? [Ultra confused]

I hear you, and I think several of us (well, I, anyway) can relate to what you're saying here. And I await the publication of our new oblate breviary from Saint Meinrad Archabbey, and that will possibly fill in some unmet needs while having others...but I intend at least to try adopting it firmly as a discipline, because I'm an oblate of that monastery, after all. It might help instill some discipline.

What helps me, when things go well, is to decide on some musts: connection to the modern-day lectionaries is important to me; I'd have a hard time sticking to the old Monastic Diurnal with its frequent disconnects, especially on many Sundays (antiphons pointing to the old lections and not the current ones). Works for some others, but to me it feels like pretending. Coverage of the whole psalter is important, whether over a week, four weeks, a month, or seven weeks. Those are probably the two musts I have. And I do prefer the 1979 psalter if possible, which I try to stick to so I can memorize.

As for hymns...some weeks ago I flipped through the General Instruction on the Liturgy of the Hours because I was sure there was something in there about the hymn being optional if you're not under obligation to pray the hours and/or you're praying individually. Couldn't find that; perhaps it was a Benedictine rubric? Looks like the intent is that every hour of the office have at least a hymn, a psalm, a reading, and a prayer. But I don't make a special effort to include a hymn when I'm praying our BCP office. There's a rubric for a hymn but no prescribed texts.

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Pancho
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Does anyone have experience using this from GIA?

Hymnal for the Hours
quote:
This hymnal, for communities that celebrate the daily office, is a collection of 316 hymns prepared by a committee of poets, liturgists, and musicians from various religious communities of women and men under the chairmanship of Andrew D. Ciferni, O. Praem. This is a collection of carefully edited hymns for morning, evening, and general use throughout the entire church year. One hardcover edition contains all harmonies and accompaniments.


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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

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Antiphon
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Is anyone familiar with the three-volume work Les Heures Gregoriennes in Latin and French which has recently been published by the Community of St Martin? This consists of all the hours of the LOH except the Office of Readings set to Gregorian chant.

I have just received my set this morning. I will post my impressions of it later.

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
Does anyone have experience using this from GIA?

Hymnal for the Hours

Yes, I used to have one. My impression was that it was fairly well done, but I then got a copy of Hymns for Prayer and Praise, which I found a much better resource: better structured with guidance for choosing appropriate hymns, nicely noted with two tunes per hymn text: a plainchant one and a metrical one.
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Pancho
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Thanks Oblatus, and thanks for the link.

--------------------
“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Antiphon:
Is anyone familiar with the three-volume work Les Heures Gregoriennes in Latin and French which has recently been published by the Community of St Martin? This consists of all the hours of the LOH except the Office of Readings set to Gregorian chant.

I have just received my set this morning. I will post my impressions of it later.

I've heard excellent reviews of it but can't justify spending the amount necessary to obtain it. Very expensive; may be worth it, but there are other spending priorities, unfortunately. [Frown]
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Antiphon
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I've just prayed Vespers in Latin for Wednesday of the seventh week of Easter using the relevant volume of Les Heures Gregoriennes.

They are certainly a handsome set of volumes, but after I began to pray the Office I realised that the psalm antiphons for today were different from those in the standard Liturgia Horarum. I do not know if those in Les Heures Gegoriennes are from a later revision of the LH or if they were selected by the Community of St Martin as being more suitable for singing.

I experimented by reciting the Latin psalms, responsories and collect from Les Heures Gregoriennes but using the red Lauds and Vespers book published by Scepter for the hymn and antiphons in Latin and the short reading and intercessions in English.

This was an interesting way of doing the Office but did involve a lot of book juggling, as is discussed in another thread!


Tomorrow evening I will use Les Heures Gregoriennes for Vespers in French, as unlike the ordinary secular Liturgie des Heures which I also have, it has French translations of the Latin office hymns rather than contemporary French hymns.

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Clavus
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There was a discussion about this in the Yahoo Gregorian group. It seems that Rome has a) produced the new Liturgia Horarum with lots of new antiphons; b) said that the use of Gregorian chant is to be encouraged; and c) said that no new chants are to be written, and only the chants in the histroic repetoire are to be used. It seems that the idea of 'joined-up government' is not known in the Vatican. So Les Heures Gregoriennes is the work of many months of antiquarian research at Solesmes to find old antiphons once associated with the day or psalm, since there is no traditional chant for the new antiphon. In Eastertide, most of the daily antihons are just permutations of Alleluias. It's all very disappointing. There was an attempt by Holger Peter Sandhofe to adapt traditional chants to the new words, but he died before completing this work (no Eastertide or Sanctoral), and even what he did finish has been taken down from the site www.nocturnal.de where it formerly appeared.
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Antiphon
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Yes, I noticed that the antiphons given in Les Heures Gregoriennes for yesterday's Vespers seemed to consist mainly of alleluias.

I certainly do not regret my purchase of the set, as they are handsome and useful books, but it is possible that I may use them mainly for praying the office in French, as I feel they are superior to the standard Liturgie des Heures for this purpose.

I think they would really come into their own for singing the Latin office; unfortunately I cannot sing the office in any language as I cannot read music or chant notation. However, I would also be pleased to use them for reading the Latin office if supplemented by other books for the antiphons etc.

I also have a copy of the 1961 Brevarium Romanum which was published last year by Nova et Vetera. This is also a handsome publication, and at the moment I use it mainly for Vespers on Sundays and major festivals, as suggested by Fr Hunwicke on his blog.

It seems as though the Baronius Press Latin/English breviary in three volumes will finally be published this year according to their website. At some point I may also obtain a set of the current Liturgia Horarum from Pax Books; the set I currently have is a second-hand one dating from 1974.

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Antiphon
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I would also say that although I am currently using the 1961 Breviary for Sunday Vespers, I am slightly naughty and Liturgia Horarum-ise it in the following ways:-

1) I always follow the modern Roman calendar using the current dates for certain feasts

2) I read the chapter in English, often using the translations provided in the Baronius Press 1962 Daily Missal for Sunday Vespers

3) I say the Pater Noster audibly, as in the LOH

4) I only ever use one collect as in the LOH, ie no commemorations.


Purists would no doubt frown at these innovations but that's what I do! I feel they are perhaps within the spirit of the latest Motu Proprio concerning the 1962 Missal, which allows the traditional readings in the vernacular without having to repeat them in Latin.

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lily pad
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Uh oh, so when I sing them without having a clue about the tune, am I doing something wrong?

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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!

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Antiphon
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Not at all. Unfortunately I am a very poor singer and have a terrible voice! On a recent pilgrimage to Rome the priest who was accompanying us asked me not to sing so loudly at Mass as he found it distracting! Apparently my attempt to sing the Salve Regina at the conclusion of Mass without the Latin text was particularly bad!

That is why I prefer to say the office rather than to sing it. Somehow, I do not think I would fit well into any monastic community where the office is sung daily!

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cg
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Antiphon, I'm in the same boat as regards singing inability. But I'm now a novice oblate of a small Anglican Benedictine community which sings (in English) Lauds, Vespers, Compline and - on Sundays and feast days - Mattins, using books derived from the Sarum use. The other offices are said. So I'm trying to pick up the rudiments of chant and Gregorian notation. This site should be helpful. It is, however, focussing on the monastic offices not the LoH.
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DitzySpike
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quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
... but I then got a copy of Hymns for Prayer and Praise, which I found a much better resource: better structured with guidance for choosing appropriate hymns, nicely noted with two tunes per hymn text: a plainchant one and a metrical one.

If you can still get your hands on Hymns for Prayer and Praise, you should. The editors have a very clear idea of what they want: both language and music are straightforward and simple you are trained to pay attention to the drama of the text. Like the defunct ICEL psalter, you either love or loathe the austerity.

Hymnal for the Hours is more inclusive of different styles. Before one decides on this book, do consider the Dominican Sisters' Summit Choir Book.

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Pancho
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I don't know if anyone else noticed it but buried in this interview is some possible good news.
quote:
The new closeness between Solesmes and St. Peters will intensify later this year when Solesmes releases an in-print version of the first volume of the Antiphonale for the Liturgy of the Hours, which will then be used in published form for Vespers at the Vatican.

So maybe we'll see some more music for the Liturgy of the Hours before the year's end.

--------------------
“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

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New Yorker
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Today, 14 August, is the Feast of St. Maximilian Kolbe and tomorrow, 15 August, is the Solemnity of the Assumption of the BVM. Since the Assumption is a Solemnity it has Evening Prayer I and II. Does this mean that there is never an Evening Prayer for Maximilian? (Other than, perhaps, churches dedicated to him?)
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Antiphon
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I took the confirmation name Maximilian in honour of St Maximilian Kolbe when I was recieved into the RC Church, so today I attended mass and also prayed the Office of Readings for the saint.

I used the the ICEL edition of the Liturgy of the Hours, which includes a supplementary booklet containing the propers of recently-introduced feasts, including the memorial of St Maximilian Kolbe. I noticed that a proper Magnificat antiphon was provided for Evening Prayer for the saint, but wondered when it would be used, as on the evening of August 14th one should pray First Vespers of the Assumption.

As suggested, it could possibly be used for First Vespers on August 13th in churches dedicated to St Maximilian Kolbe if his feast is observed as a Solemnity.

Incidently, I do not think that such a supplementary booklet is also available for use with the UK edition of the Divine Office, although I could be wrong.

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dkpintar
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quote:
Originally posted by Antiphon:
I took the confirmation name Maximilian in honour of St Maximilian Kolbe when I was recieved into the RC Church, so today I attended mass and also prayed the Office of Readings for the saint.

I used the the ICEL edition of the Liturgy of the Hours, which includes a supplementary booklet containing the propers of recently-introduced feasts, including the memorial of St Maximilian Kolbe. I noticed that a proper Magnificat antiphon was provided for Evening Prayer for the saint, but wondered when it would be used, as on the evening of August 14th one should pray First Vespers of the Assumption.

As suggested, it could possibly be used for First Vespers on August 13th in churches dedicated to St Maximilian Kolbe if his feast is observed as a Solemnity.

Incidently, I do not think that such a supplementary booklet is also available for use with the UK edition of the Divine Office, although I could be wrong.

you are correct, i've not seen one for the 3 volume: "divine office" we use here.

[ 15. August 2009, 02:28: Message edited by: dkpintar ]

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die 1 martii: Menéviæ in Cámbira, sancti David, epíscopi, qui, exémpla et mores Patrum orientálium ímitans, monastérium, cóndidit, unde permùlti profécti sunt mónachi, qui Cámbriam, Hibérnium, Cornúbiam et Armóricam evangelizárunt.

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Extol
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Here is an interesting daily office development: a 1960-rubrics online breviary with the modern Roman kalendar. (Go to front page, click on "Rubric 1960," new list should drop down permitting "1960 Newcalendar."

The 1960 New Calendar version:

* implements the 2009 Calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_calendar_of_saints) Only those offices are parts of the office for Proper of Saints, which are listed here; some offices are relocated. Offices not found in the Extraordinary form, are created from the Common of Saints

* Memorial offices are implemented as 3rd class offices according to the 1960 rubrics (1, 2-3 readings from the season, 3rd reading from the saint). Feasts are implemented as 2nd class (semifestive offices), solemnities as 1st class (festive) offices

* optional memorial offices are prayed in 'regular' mode, the ferial office is used in 'seasonal' mode, except for Advent, when always the ferial office is recited if the saint's office is optional

* in Lent all memorial offices are trumped by the ferial office, in accordance to the 1960 rubrics (there is only Gospel homily, no Scriptural reading for the season)

* if two saints are assigned for the same day, the first in the calendar is chosen

* commemoration of a saint would be implemented only for local Feast or Solemnity in the O antiphon (Dec 17-24) days in Advent

* Seasonal feast days moved to Sundays (Ascencion etc) cannot be handled, there would be no office left for the feria. Feasts days of saints can be moved through the translation table (Latin/Psalterium/Trnewcal.txt, Latin/Psalterium/Trnewcalyyyy.txt)

* Ember days, Rogation days, and the Octave of Pentecost is dropped following the previous trend since 1955; however the lessons are Gospel homilies for that days

* The traditional schema of Sundays (Septuagesima time, 6 Sundays after Epiphany and 24 Sundays after Pentecost) is not changed because any change of this would require to create a new scriptural reading schema (NOTE: this means that the 3-year Gospel Antiphons, and proper readings calibrated to the modern 3-year calendar, are NOT substituted--the Sunday office is basically the 1960 office.

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Antiphon
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Just checked out the resource for the Breviarium Roman and it is very interesting indeed. I have the recently published Nova et Vetera edition of the 1961 Breviary which I have experimented with using with the Vatican II calendar, so I will find this site very useful.

The site also gives directions for using the Breviary according to earlier rubrics, such as those of the Council of Trent and those of 1955.

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Antiphon
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Sadly, the website for the Breviarium Romanum doesn't seem to be functioning at the moment. I hope it will be online again soon.
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Antiphon
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Good news; the website is now running smoothly again.
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Edgeman
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quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
I don't know if anyone else noticed it but buried in this interview is some possible good news.
quote:
The new closeness between Solesmes and St. Peters will intensify later this year when Solesmes releases an in-print version of the first volume of the Antiphonale for the Liturgy of the Hours, which will then be used in published form for Vespers at the Vatican.

So maybe we'll see some more music for the Liturgy of the Hours before the year's end.
Hopefully! I'm beginning to tire of writing/adapting my own chants every time I want to sing the office!

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dkpintar
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quote:

quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
I don't know if anyone else noticed it but buried in this interview is some possible good news.
quote:
The new closeness between Solesmes and St. Peters will intensify later this year when Solesmes releases an in-print version of the first volume of the Antiphonale for the Liturgy of the Hours, which will then be used in published form for Vespers at the Vatican.

So maybe we'll see some more music for the Liturgy of the Hours before the year's end.
Hopefully! I'm beginning to tire of writing/adapting my own chants every time I want to sing the office!

the three-volume "antiphonale monasticum" is already available. not from solesmes or st peters . . . but from another source, which i will look up later [it's 3am as i type this--i can't sleep] and post. it is in "flexible leather" covers.

watch this space.

[Hicupped post removed - DT Eccles Host]

[ 30. August 2009, 11:00: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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die 1 martii: Menéviæ in Cámbira, sancti David, epíscopi, qui, exémpla et mores Patrum orientálium ímitans, monastérium, cóndidit, unde permùlti profécti sunt mónachi, qui Cámbriam, Hibérnium, Cornúbiam et Armóricam evangelizárunt.

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Antiphon
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I already have the three-volume edition of the current Antiphonale Monasticum. I think I obtained two volumes from a specialist supplier and one directly from Solesmes using the buy online facility on their website.

I would have to say that I am not that keen on the flexible plastic covers which I do not think would stand up very well to frequent use; I would have preferred hard covers similar to those used for the Gregorian Missal, the Graduale Romanum and the Liber Hymnarius, even if this increased the price slightly.

I also have Les Heures Gregoriennes published by the Community of St Martin, which is the current Liturgy of the Hours except the Office of Readings set to chant in both Latin and French. This also comprises three volumes and I understand that it was prepared in conjunction with Solesmes. I also understand that the psalm antiphons were specially prepared for singing and are not always the same as those found in the four-volume Liturgia Horarum.

Will the forthcoming Antiphonale from Solemes which will be used at St Peters therefore have the same or similar material as Les Heures Gregoriennes?

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dkpintar
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quote:
Originally posted by Antiphon:
I already have the three-volume edition of the current Antiphonale Monasticum. I think I obtained two volumes from a specialist supplier and one directly from Solesmes using the buy online facility on their website.

I would have to say that I am not that keen on the flexible plastic covers which I do not think would stand up very well to frequent use; I would have preferred hard covers similar to those used for the Gregorian Missal, the Graduale Romanum and the Liber Hymnarius, even if this increased the price slightly.

I also have Les Heures Gregoriennes published by the Community of St Martin, which is the current Liturgy of the Hours except the Office of Readings set to chant in both Latin and French. This also comprises three volumes and I understand that it was prepared in conjunction with Solesmes. I also understand that the psalm antiphons were specially prepared for singing and are not always the same as those found in the four-volume Liturgia Horarum.

Will the forthcoming Antiphonale from Solemes which will be used at St Peters therefore have the same or similar material as Les Heures Gregoriennes?

so the last paragraph is the £100 question.

antiphon,What is the comparison of material in the "antiphonale" to "heures gregorienne""
same? somewewhat the same? different?

I ask because i have prayed the office in french frequently lately and i AM interested in the "heures greoriennes.


ta,

dk

[ 31. August 2009, 07:20: Message edited by: dkpintar ]

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die 1 martii: Menéviæ in Cámbira, sancti David, epíscopi, qui, exémpla et mores Patrum orientálium ímitans, monastérium, cóndidit, unde permùlti profécti sunt mónachi, qui Cámbriam, Hibérnium, Cornúbiam et Armóricam evangelizárunt.

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Clavus
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Yes, it is the £100 question! We have been waiting a very long time for an Antiphonal for the modern secular (not monastic) Office. I had hoped that Les Heures Gregoriennes (HG) would be the answer, but a great many of the psalm antiphons are different from those for appointed for Lauds and Vespers in the Liturgia Horarum (LH).

'Specially prepared for singing'? Well, Solesmes (who indeed produced the music in HG) could have set the antiphon texts in LH to plainchant, but they didn't do that. Instead they searched through the historical repetoire to find chants (and their texts) which have been attached to the relevant psalms in the past, and substituted those for the new LH antiphhon texts in preparing HG.

In 2002, Holger Peter Sandhofe (HPS), before his untimely death, produced several fascicules of a proposed Antiphonal using the alternative approach - adapting historic plainchant antiphon music to fit the new texts in LH. These were available as .pdfs on this German website, which went down about the time that HG was published (I have the .pdfs myself and use them).

The problem, it seems, lies in Rome, which has spoken - to say that plainchant is to be encouraged in the new rites, and that no new chants are to be created! That is why we have in HG a mixed bag, neither really the new LH nor the old Breviary, a production which cannot be used with any other LH books.

So it will be very interesting to see what the forthcoming Solesmes/St Peter's Antiphonal does - will it follow the HG route or the HPS route?

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Antiphon
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Thanks for explaining why the psalm antiphons in Les Heures Gregoriennes are different from those in Liturgia Horarum Clavus. I'd read about the reasoning behind this before, but couldn't remember exactly what it was; I was aware that the Vatican had intervened in some way.

dkpintar, the current Solesmes thee-volume Antiphonale Monasticum has the psalms distributed according to the weekly Benedictine scheme rather than the four-weekly "secular" scheme, as in Les Heures Gregoriennes. Also, they are only printed in Latin and no scriptural readings or lectionary for the office are provided; you have to look elsewhere for appropriate daily readings.

I have experimented with using Les Heures Gregoriennes for praying the office in French but taking the antiphons from the four-volume Liturgie des Heures, which is the ordinary French secular breviary.

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Pancho
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quote:
Originally posted by Clavus:
Yes, it is the £100 question! We have been waiting a very long time for an Antiphonal for the modern secular (not monastic) Office. I had hoped that Les Heures Gregoriennes (HG) would be the answer, but a great many of the psalm antiphons are different from those for appointed for Lauds and Vespers in the Liturgia Horarum (LH).

Can you tell if the psalm antiphons in Les Heures Gregoriennes match those prescribed in the Ordo Cantus Officii from 1983 (pdf link)? It has the current scheme for singing the Liturgy of the Hours drawn from different sources. I don't know if the new Antiphonal will follow this scheme or as you say possibly adapt melodies to the current antiphon texts.

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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"

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dkpintar
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thanks to all for the information; especially "antiphon".

it's a big help.

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die 1 martii: Menéviæ in Cámbira, sancti David, epíscopi, qui, exémpla et mores Patrum orientálium ímitans, monastérium, cóndidit, unde permùlti profécti sunt mónachi, qui Cámbriam, Hibérnium, Cornúbiam et Armóricam evangelizárunt.

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Clavus
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After a brief look, I would say that the psalm antiphons in Les Heures Gregoriennes seem to match those in Ordo Cantus Officii , but those for the canticles-used-as-psalms (the second in Lauds and the third in Vespers), for which there are of course no historic precendents, do not.
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Thurible
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I don't remember seeing mention of Byzantine Catholic Prayer for the Home here. This post on the NLM references a couple of other Eastern Catholic goodies.

Thurible

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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

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Antiphon
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In order to bump up this thread once again, here is the form of Anglican Use Evening Prayer that I am currently using (I am actually RC):-

Monday-Thursday; EP from the Anglican Service Book, with the following additions:-

office hymns, psalm antiphons and some collects from the 1963 edition of The Prayer Book Office by Fr Paul Hartzell

daily readings from The American Office Book by L. Noel Stipkovich

litany of intercession from The Taize Office published by Faith Press in 1966

On days when proper readings are required I use the Catholic edition of the RSV bible published by Ignatius Press.


Friday; EP from the 1979 edition of The Prayer Book Office by Howard Galley, using the Catholic Truth Society bible (Jerusalem Bible) for the readings, and intercessions and sometimes an office hymn from the 1975 Book of Prayer by St John's Abbey, Collegeville.

Saturday; Vigil Office of Sunday from Benedictine Daily Prayer, which is Vigils with the addition of the intercessions and Lord's Prayer from First Vespers; this is suggested in the introduction to the book and is sometimes the form used at St John's Abbey itself.

Sunday; Vespers from The Anglican Breviary, with the Magnificat antiphon and collect taken from the English translation of the Latin office found in Fr Stravinskas' Lauds and Vespers per annum.
This is a somewhat hybrid office, but I am only able to attend Novus Ordo massses so this usage ties in better with the Sunday readings.

When using EP from the Anglican Service Book or Galley's Prayer Book Office I always follow Cranmer's traditional monthly distribution of the psalms, except when proper psalms are required.

I also try to pray Sext and Compline when I can. For Sext I use the psalms of the day from The Anglican Breviary with the collect for Sext from Hartzell's Prayer Book Office.

For Compline on weekdays I use The Office of Our Lady produced by the Abbey of En Calcat and published by Darton, Longman and Todd in the early 1960s, with the proviso that the psalms are taken from the BCP psalter as I am not keen on the English transaltion provided.

For Compline on Saturdays and Sundays I use the Latin office from the current Liturgia Horarum.

What forms of office are other people using at the moment? I wonder how many of you are messing around with as many books as I am at the moment!

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Edgeman
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For now, I'm using Fr.Stravinskas' Lauds and Vespers-Enlarged edition , but I have all the propers for the saints, as well as the commons from the Liturgia Horarum in a printed six-volume supplement thin enough to be put in the back of the book. I make a few illegal interpolations though:
-Opening versicles before the Invitatory (as in the old breviary)
-Antiphons not doubled on ferias,
-the words Deo gracias said sub voce after the short reading
-the prayer Fidelium animae after the closing versicles, as it was in prime in the old breviary.
For recited offices,I use the antiphons given for the Liturgia Horarum.
For sung offices (I usually end up singing the offices three to four days of the week)For any antiphons not contained in the Liber usualis, I make adaptations of appropriate melodies given there. However, I just came across a rubric in the G.I.L.H. that encourages using the antiphons from the old breviary for sung offices whenever there is no setting of the antiphons used in the new breviary. I might avail myself of this option more frequently.
Whenever I have time to say the little hours, I use the Monastic Diurnal, which I also use for compline, the monthly office of the dead, and occasional votive offices. On Saturdays, I say the Sabbath office of Our lady from the Anglican breviary. (I just found my copy after it went missing for a year.)

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Antiphon:
What forms of office are other people using at the moment? I wonder how many of you are messing around with as many books as I am at the moment!

I've swung back to the Monastic Diurnal Revised (Community of St. Mary, Eastern Province). I read the lessons from the Daily Office Book thus:

  • OT lesson at Terce
  • Middle lesson (Epistle, Acts, or whatever) at Sext
  • Gospel lesson at Vespers

Matins lessons are the short lessons given.

For the collect, I rotate through the general ones given at the end of each hour's section at Matins, Terce, and Vespers; I use the collect of the day (or previous Sunday) at Sext.

For singing, I use The Monastic Diurnal Noted, Revised Edition: A Companion Volume to the Monastic Diurnal Revised in draft form from 2007, with lots of red-ink corrections from an e-mail I received from the superior back then. Not sure whether they've done a new draft or have published it yet.

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Olaf
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quote:
Originally posted by Antiphon:
What forms of office are other people using at the moment? I wonder how many of you are messing around with as many books as I am at the moment!

I've been in a slump lately, having used TEC's Contemporary Office Book since last Advent 1. The 2-year office just doesn't work well for me, and it has drained my zeal.

I need to go back to the shorter Daily Eucharistic readings from Lesser Feasts and Fasts. Those do go well with MDR, since it provides antiphons for the Gospel canticle that align with the Gospel reading from the eucharistic lectionary.

What I need is some new material.

[ 06. September 2009, 23:37: Message edited by: Martin L ]

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FatherRobLyons
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I've switched to our diocese's interim BCP (which arrived in my mailbox about 2 weeks ago). The book contains two forms for the Office, a Solemn and Simple form. I use the simple form at home with my wife, and the solemn form on Sundays and Solemnities.

Our interim BCP doesn't include a Daily Lectionary, as we are waiting to make a final decision on if we are going to keep the 3 year Eucharistic lectionary or something else before finalizing all of the lectionary resources we will provide. Thus, I use the LCMS' Treasury of Daily Prayer for my Morning and Midday readings, and at home we are reading through books of the bible in-toto and having family bible discussion each evening as a part of our office.

Rob+

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dkpintar
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quote:
Originally posted by dkpintar:
thanks to all for the information; especially "antiphon".

it's a big help.

so much help, in fact, ordered my set of les heures gregoriennes "online" about 10 days ago.
transit time to UK from from FR?? anyone???

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die 1 martii: Menéviæ in Cámbira, sancti David, epíscopi, qui, exémpla et mores Patrum orientálium ímitans, monastérium, cóndidit, unde permùlti profécti sunt mónachi, qui Cámbriam, Hibérnium, Cornúbiam et Armóricam evangelizárunt.

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Antiphon
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I think it took about 10-12 days for my set of Les Heures Gregoriennes to arrive in the UK from France.

I suppose that because they are a monastic community they only despatch orders at certain times when the have a slot in their daily activities of prayer, work, study etc. But they certainly would not mind if you emailed them to check that your order has been despatched, as I did.

I would say that the set is well worth waiting for. Another good reason for having it is that I believe the Latin text of the psalms is the revised one from the latest edition of Liturgia Horarum published in 2000. I only have a second-hand set dating from 1974, which has the earlier text and does not have the variable gospel antiphons for years A, B and C.

If you do not require the texts for the Office of Readings, purchasing Les Heures Gregoriennes works out cheaper than purchasing the latest four-volume edition of Liturgia Horarum from Paxbooks, although one should be aware of the differences in the psalm antiphons bewteen LH and HG.

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dkpintar
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quote:
Originally posted by Antiphon:
......................I would say that the set is well worth waiting for. Another good reason for having it is that I believe the Latin text of the psalms is the revised one from the latest edition of Liturgia Horarum published in 2000. I only have a second-hand set dating from 1974, which has the earlier text and does not have the variable gospel antiphons for years A, B and C.


Newman House Press publishes Lauds and Vespers; in English and Latin, edited by Rev Peter Stravinskas. It contains the variable gopsel antiphons that you mention.

Lectionnaire Monastique(in six volumes)from Solesmes also contains gospel homilies based on years A,B and C.

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die 1 martii: Menéviæ in Cámbira, sancti David, epíscopi, qui, exémpla et mores Patrum orientálium ímitans, monastérium, cóndidit, unde permùlti profécti sunt mónachi, qui Cámbriam, Hibérnium, Cornúbiam et Armóricam evangelizárunt.

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dkpintar
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quote:
Originally posted by dkpintar:
Newman House Press publishes Lauds and Vespers; in English and Latin, edited by Rev Peter Stravinskas. It contains the variable gopsel antiphons that you mention.

"the edit timer got to me . . . " anyway,

It's available on Amazon.co.uk with a publishing date of 2007.

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die 1 martii: Menéviæ in Cámbira, sancti David, epíscopi, qui, exémpla et mores Patrum orientálium ímitans, monastérium, cóndidit, unde permùlti profécti sunt mónachi, qui Cámbriam, Hibérnium, Cornúbiam et Armóricam evangelizárunt.

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