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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Saints’ iconography
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Wm Dewy
Shipmate
# 16712
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Posted
On an out of town trip this weekend, we visited a religious gift shop. My wife noticed a picture of a nun with veil holding a cat, and wondered who the saint pictured might be. Often wrong but never in doubt, I suggested, “St Gertrude. Who else has a cat?” A label on the back of the picture said “St Claire.” I’m accustomed to seeing St Claire with a monstrance, but a cat? Does anybody know a story about St Claire’s cat? Or perhaps the picture was mis-labeled.
Thanks.
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"And harmoniums and barrel - organs be miserable--what shall I call 'em ? - miserable machines for such a divine thing as music!"
Posts: 216 | From: Indiana USA | Registered: Oct 2011
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Cats symbolize the contemplative life. Because that's what cats are doing when they're sitting looking peaceful: being contemplative. Not plotting, no never...
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
According to here,
quote:
Like St. Francis, St. Clare loved animals as God’s fellow creatures and had a little cat of which she was particularly fond. St. Clare’s cat had an uncanny ability to sense when she needed something. Once when she was ill, her cat brought her a napkin before the sisters even realized she needed one.
An unusual attribute for Clare, since I think of the monstrance too, but probably one that parallels the iconography of St. Francis—him with his birds, her with the kitty, both tender, gentle and cute animals with holy-looking people. If I had to guess, I'd say that pictures with cats appeal to more people than pictures with monstrances, and, if you're painting icons, sell more. Lots of people collect pictures of cats and cat paraphernalia, might want an icon for their cat, etc. Plus, there's a long standing tradition of truly and horribly sentimental iconography of Franciscans that this can be considered a part of. There's no way this is anywhere near the worst of it—I've seen some gauzy, pastel Victorian monstrosities of which the less said, the better.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Aaaaah. That's purrfect. I can think of some ladies I know buying such an ikon not for a devotion to St Clare, but because of the cat. I'm surprised this isn't more widely known.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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ElaineC
Shipmate
# 12244
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Posted
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.
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Music is the only language in which you cannot say a mean or sarcastic thing. John Erskine
Posts: 464 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineC:
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.
That's nice, but I don't think the iconographer can have ever visited Norfolk or seen what people normally look like there.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Possibly so, but since when are icons supposed to be realistic?
We have a horrible little statue of St. Clare (the correct spelling, I think, BTW ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ), along with an equally awful statue of St. Francis. The monstrance St. C. is holding looks more like some kind of dark lantern, as though she is about to go and commit a burglary. Where Father got them from, I know not, but I wish he'd take them back. They clutter up a window-sill in our Lady Chapel.......give me an icon instead of a statue any day.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Possibly so, but since when are icons supposed to be realistic?
We have a horrible little statue of St. Clare (the correct spelling, I think, BTW ), along with an equally awful statue of St. Francis. The monstrance St. C. is holding looks more like some kind of dark lantern, as though she is about to go and commit a burglary.
![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
St. Martin de Porres is often portrayed with very cute animals- for good reason. He is the earliest proto-veterinarian I've heard of who regularly treated small, domestic animals like cats and dogs. There were farriers who treated horses (they were quite valuable), but nobody payed much attention to the small fry. St. Martin did.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineC:
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.
That's nice...
Let's not get carried away. I'll concede that it's certainly among the least horrific of the offerings by Robert Lentz but it still looks weird, the obvious element being what you pointed out.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineC:
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.
That's nice...
Let's not get carried away. I'll concede that it's certainly among the least horrific of the offerings by Robert Lentz but it still looks weird, the obvious element being what you pointed out.
Okay, I'm not always on board with paintings by Lentz. But
this image is one of my favorites ever. I know, I've posted this a zillion times. But that goat is way cool and it's what I feel like most of the time...
I'm Lyda*Rose and I'm a goat.
ETA: And this is the Lentz Julian of Norwich that I much prefer.
[ 01. March 2013, 00:19: Message edited by: Lyda*Rose ]
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Oh, the hazelnut! I rather love that...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Please note this is Protestant posting.
Please do not get carried away with Julian and a cat. This could be a simple monastic reference to a contemplative life not that she had a cat. An active life would be shown by a monkey.
If you want to know where I got this from, the cat and the monkey are still visible if you know where to look in the chapel at Iona Abbey representing the balanced life that involves both work and prayer.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
St. Martin de Porres is often portrayed with very cute animals- for good reason. He is the earliest proto-veterinarian I've heard of who regularly treated small, domestic animals like cats and dogs. There were farriers who treated horses (they were quite valuable), but nobody payed much attention to the small fry. St. Martin did.
If you can get your hands on a copy, read this book my late professor wrote on St. Martin. There's also a chapter on the prayer cards like the one you linked to in this book of his.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineC:
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.
That's nice...
Let's not get carried away. I'll concede that it's certainly among the least horrific of the offerings by Robert Lentz but it still looks weird, the obvious element being what you pointed out.
I prefer the hazelnut. It's really powerful, and that particular vision of St. Julian's really speaks to me.
RE: the one with the cat - I don't have a problem with the cat, but it just looks too much like a portrait to me. YMMV.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Inanna
Ship's redhead
# 538
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Posted
Apparently, the Ancrene Rule that Julian may well have followed allowed for the keeping of a cat, so as to reduce the mouse population in the anchorite's cell.
And, as should be obvious, I have a definite fondness for Julian with her cat ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well.
Posts: 1495 | From: Royal Oak, MI | Registered: Jun 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Please do not get carried away with Julian and a cat. This could be a simple monastic reference to a contemplative life not that she had a cat. An active life would be shown by a monkey.
My Lent book is Fr. John-Julian Swanson OJN's The Complete Julian of Norwich. [Brewster, Massachusetts: Paraclete Press, 2009] Of the cat, he writes:
"Since the Ancrene Wisse forbids anchorites to have any animals except a cat, it has already become traditional hagiography to show Mother Julian with a cat (indeed, there is a pleasant children's book called Julian's Cat). Of course, the cat had a practical use in keeping down the mouse and rat population." (p. 42)
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
St. Martin de Porres is often portrayed with very cute animals- for good reason. He is the earliest proto-veterinarian I've heard of who regularly treated small, domestic animals like cats and dogs. There were farriers who treated horses (they were quite valuable), but nobody payed much attention to the small fry. St. Martin did.
If you can get your hands on a copy, read this book my late professor wrote on St. Martin. There's also a chapter on the prayer cards like the one you linked to in this book of his.
Thanks! They look like good suggestions.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Please do not get carried away with Julian and a cat. This could be a simple monastic reference to a contemplative life not that she had a cat. An active life would be shown by a monkey.
My Lent book is Fr. John-Julian Swanson OJN's The Complete Julian of Norwich. [Brewster, Massachusetts: Paraclete Press, 2009] Of the cat, he writes:
"Since the Ancrene Wisse forbids anchorites to have any animals except a cat, it has already become traditional hagiography to show Mother Julian with a cat (indeed, there is a pleasant children's book called Julian's Cat). Of course, the cat had a practical use in keeping down the mouse and rat population." (p. 42)
There is evidence of a monk keeping a cat centuries before Julian - as the anonymous Irish 9th century monk of St Paul in Carinthia, who wrote a delightful poem about his cat Pangur -
Messe ocus Pangur bán. It would be interesting to know whether this was common practice, or a chance happening.
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
Posts: 1032 | From: Hereabouts | Registered: May 2005
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