|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: State Funeral for Thatcher
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
I see that next Wednesday evening I am, by coincidence, going to a lecture, given by a Belgian, on the need to define the EU's social objectives. I think that in its own quiet way that counts as a protest.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
leo
Shipmate
# 1458
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
Personally I think her attendance is ill-advised and can only be detrimental for her position and that of the monarchy. I also think there is a good chance of some pretty ugly scenes during the procession.
Maybe she and the queen were friends.
Highly unlikely. I imagine Betty saying to Philip - I've got that shrill parvenu coming to tea this afternoon.
--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
|
Posted
Serious question: does anybody know the postal address of the Thatcher Foundation, or who its chair is and how to contact him/her by post? The website gives no postal address.
Idea is that we get as many people as we can to print off an invoice asking the Foundation for our share of the cost of the state funding for the funeral (about 5p each, I suspect)and post them to them, unstamped of course. Publicise this as widely as we can and get as many people as we can to join in and publicise it in turn. I would be happy to knock up a template to share, if we can find an address to send them to.
--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
Personally I think her attendance is ill-advised and can only be detrimental for her position and that of the monarchy. I also think there is a good chance of some pretty ugly scenes during the procession.
Maybe she and the queen were friends.
Highly unlikely. I imagine Betty saying to Philip - I've got that shrill parvenu coming to tea this afternoon.
There's something in that: I believe Thatcher once said something like "The trouble with the queen is that she's the kind of woman who'd vote SDP". I don't think they saw eye-to-eye socially. On the other hand, Thatcher was a member of the Order of Merit, which is the personal gift of the Queen, so there was clearly some respect there.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Is everyone here just intent on throwing his own little ... political point into this topic or what?
Yep.
Well indeed.
I know that this is a topic upon which very few British people will not have a strong opinion one way or another, but inasmuch as it is possible, we would appreciate it if we could keep to the topic of funeral organisation and liturgy itself.
Thanks.
dj_ordinaire, Eccles host
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Serious question: does anybody know the postal address of the Thatcher Foundation, or who its chair is and how to contact him/her by post? The website gives no postal address.
As you probably discovered by google, the writer of this letter (PDF) wrote c/o her Belgravia address.
Thurible
--------------------
"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alex Cockell
Ship’s penguin
# 7487
|
Posted
Maybe the organist or a brass band could play a few select bars from Billy Bragg numbers? Maybe in an Organists behaving Badly stylee?
Posts: 2146 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
|
Posted
What do you think the liturgy will be like besides the hymns and music? What order of service will be used (and what will that order be like), who will officiate, and what will the clergy wear? Will the religious service end when her casket leaves the cathedral and heads for the crematorium? How high or low will the funeral be?
Posts: 1537 | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
I would think it will be fairly traditional - and the liturgical equivalent of black tie.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
, who will officiate, and what will the clergy wear?
Let's see. Lady Thatcher was MP for Finchley. Unfortunately that falls under the purview of the Bishop of Edmonton, so we can't really nominate our good friend the Bishop of Willesden ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I would think it will be fairly traditional - and the liturgical equivalent of black tie.
Yes - the Queen, various senior politicians and foreign dignitaries will be there.
I'd guess at the Series One service, with knobs on. Not sure who will officiate - perhaps +Richard Londin rather than ++Justin, although given that the Queen is going, maybe ++Justin has to do it.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
otyetsfoma
Shipmate
# 12898
|
Posted
I have always liked and defended monarchy because we could have a head of state who was above politics - an elected head is moderately disliked or even viscerally hated by a fair to large proportion of his/her people. The decision of her Majesty to attend the funeral of the woman who probably lost Scotland to the union has greatly modified my views.
Posts: 842 | From: Edgware UK | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by otyetsfoma:
I have always liked and defended monarchy because we could have a head of state who was above politics - an elected head is moderately disliked or even viscerally hated by a fair to large proportion of his/her people. The decision of her Majesty to attend the funeral of the woman who probably lost Scotland to the union has greatly modified my views.
We don't know what the Queen actually thinks. It is of the nature of constitutional monarchy that if the government of the day advises her she should attend, she's bound by that advice.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
otyetsfoma
Shipmate
# 12898
|
Posted
In that case, do the damtories realise they are weakening the monarchy?
Posts: 842 | From: Edgware UK | Registered: Aug 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
I shouldn't think they care. They probably think that all of them (maybe even Prince Philip) are closet lefties.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Cockell:
Maybe the organist or a brass band could play a few select bars from Billy Bragg numbers?
An extract from my suggested playlist:
A Change Is Gonna Come (Billy Bragg)
A Message to You Rudy (The Specials)
A Miner's Life (Billy Bragg)
A New England (Billy Bragg)
A Pair Of Brown Eyes (The Pogues)
Abernant 1984/5 (Mekons)
Alright Jack (Home Service)
Andy Is A Corporatist/Mindless Violence (Attila The Stockbroker)
Another Man's Cause (Levellers)
Battle Of The Beanfield (Levellers)
Between the Wars (Billy Bragg)
Close the Coalhouse Door (Alex Glasgow)
Colliers March (Chumbawamba)
Dark Streets Of London (The Pogues)
Days Like These (Billy Bragg)
Dirty Old Town (The Pogues)
Electric Avenue (Eddy Grant)
English Civil War (Levellers)
Every Time I Eat Vegetables (Attila The Stockbroker)
Family (New Model Army)
Family Life (New Model Army)
Gangsters (The Specials)
Ghost Town (The Specials)
Green And Grey (New Model Army)
Harry Stone - Hearts of Coal (John Tams)
I Shall Be Released (Tom Robinson Band)
Iron Hand (Dire Straits)
Ironmasters (The Men They Couldn't Hang)
Jerusalem (Billy Bragg)
Jerusalem (Mekons)
Jerusalem Revisited (Coope, Boyes & Simpson)
Joe Hill (Billy Bragg)
Johnny Miner (Mekons)
Julie (Levellers)
Last Weeks of the War (Mekons)
Like Soldiers Do (Billy Bragg)
Living On the Frontline (Eddy Grant)
London Calling (The Clash)
Love Will Tear Us Apart (Joy Division)
Maggie Went Green (Ewan Mac Coll)
Maggots 1 Maggie 0 (Attila The Stockbroker)
My Youngest Son Came Home Today (Billy Bragg)
Never Cross a Picket Line (Billy Bragg)
One In Ten (UB40)
Police & Thieves (Junior Murvin)
Redemption Song (Bob Marley)
Sheep Farming in the Falklands (Crass)
Shipbuilding (Robert Wyatt)
Sorrow/Babylon (Home Service)
Stupid Questions (New Model Army)
Swansea (Martyn Joseph)
The Blackleg Miner (Steeleye Span)
The Red Flag (Billy Bragg)
The Sell Out (Levellers)
The Trumpton Riots (Half Man Half Biscuit)
The World Turned Upside Down (Billy Bragg)
There Is Power In a Union (Billy Bragg)
Think Again (Billy Bragg)
This Land Is Your Land (Billy Bragg)
To Have and To Have Not (Billy Bragg)
Town Called Malice (The Jam)
War Baby (Martyn Joseph)
Warning (Levellers)
Which Side Are You On (Billy Bragg)
(We Don't Need This) Fascist Groove Thang (Heaven 17)
[ 12. April 2013, 19:29: Message edited by: ken ]
--------------------
Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
|
Posted
Elton John has been known to sing at state funerals. Maybe he could sing a selection from his musical 'Billy Elliot' including the miners' song 'Merry Christmas Maggie Thatcher'.
Apparently on the night of Thatcher's death, the cast let the audience vote on whether they sang the song (and the answer was a resounding yes).
--------------------
*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
|
Posted
I've just realised you could probably sing 'Ding dong the witch is dead' to the tune 'Rejoice! the Lord is king'.....Hmmmm!!
I wonder if this will be a Solemn Eucharist of Requiem?
You need something fiery - such as Verdi's Requiem although Mozart's is pretty exciting at times?
Black or purple vestments?
Will incense be used?
Answers on a postcard...... ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Just so long as as they do Dies Irae.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
|
Posted
Well, there is a translation in the standard Ancient & Modern
--------------------
Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
O dear God - they're not going to wheel on Elton John, are they.....?? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Ian J.
Hmmmm...
How about:
quote:
Goodbye Mrs T…
Though we all knew you too well
You never had the grace to admit
You could be wrong about it all
England’s saviour they called you
But the huge cost was to us all
You set us all on a treadmill
Made us the market’s slaves all
And it seems to me you lived your life
Blowing at the candle in the wind
Never allowing any shelter
When the rain set in
I wish I’d never known you
But I was just a child
And you seemed to live on and on
And the myth is ever wild
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
AFZ
--------------------
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
|
Posted
Re the use of the dies irae -- i know many of my more old-school minded eccles cremates like it for funeral liturgies. As a child of the sixties ![[Smile]](smile.gif) i think it was appropriate that Vatican 2 discontinued that custom -- i don't want it at my funeral. However, i by no means think that it is without value and i note that on Wikipedia it says that "It remains as a hymn ad libitum in the Liturgy of the Hours during the last week before Advent, divided into three parts for the Office of Readings, Lauds and Vespers" (Liturgia Horarum IV, (Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2000), p. 489.). That's something i didn't know and i think is a quite appropriate use for it.
And now, going from the sublime to the ridiculous, in re
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
It's out of our hands, surely?
my favourite bit was
quote:
The service will also feature a solo by Cher who will appear at her own expense in order to convince her fans she is still alive following confusion among her US fans on Twitter upon seeing the hashtag #nowthatchersdead and reading it as Now that Cher’s dead.
--------------------
God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Cockell:
Maybe the organist or a brass band could play a few select bars from Billy Bragg numbers?
An extract from my suggested playlist:
If you in that mood, you might consider also that song by the Wolfe Tones - Admiral William Brown... thusly...
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
|
Posted
quote:
I've just realised you could probably sing 'Ding dong the witch is dead' to the tune 'Rejoice! the Lord is king'.....Hmmmm!!
I wonder if this will be a Solemn Eucharist of Requiem?
You need something fiery - such as Verdi's Requiem although Mozart's is pretty exciting at times?
Black or purple vestments?
Will incense be used?
Answers on a postcard......
Granted, as an American Roman Catholic, I am truly an outsider, but I suspect that there will not be a Eucharist as part of the service, especially since the Queen will be in attendance, and she rarely receives Communion in public.
I guess the service will be high but not Anglo-Catholic. No idea if any reference will be made to her Methodist heritage other than perhaps in the choice of hymns. Candles but no incense. Is it a given that at least some of the clergy will wear copes? If not, and if tippets are worn instead of stoles, there would not be a need to worry about vestment colors. quote:
I'd guess at the Series One service, with knobs on.
Does this mean you think the bishop(s) will wear mitres? What about croziers/pastoral staffs? Are there certain vestment (and accoutrement) protocols that are usually observed in St. Paul's?
Posts: 1537 | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
[QUOTE] On the other hand, Thatcher was a member of the Order of Merit, which is the personal gift of the Queen, so there was clearly some respect there.
Nah. Just a perk of the job.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
[QUOTE] Does this mean you think the bishop(s) will wear mitres? What about croziers/pastoral staffs? Are there certain vestment (and accoutrement) protocols that are usually observed in St. Paul's?
Did Thatcher actually profess any Christian beliefs - did she show any signs of her behaviour reflecting Christian values? (She certainly didn't keep to the values inherent in the words of St Francis).
I'll mostly be wearing trousers and a shirt on the day. My Mitre and pastoral staff are "in" for an MOT and polish.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Much as I think she missed quite a bit of the gospel, the answer to that is clearly "yes" she did. By upbringing she was Methodist and kept that allegiance at least until she was married. I do not know when she formally moved to Anglicanism. She gave a communion rail to the Methodist church where she was married.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
What do you think the liturgy will be like besides the hymns and music?
We'll just have to wait and see. I believe we have a Mystery Worshipper lined up to memorialize the event in any case.
--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
More seriously, I'm not sure what hymns I would like to see. 'Guide me oh thou great Redeemer' is surely too strongly associated with mining communities. 'Dear Lord and Father of mankind' hardly seems suitable.
I have a bad feeling that 'I vow to thee, my country' might be making an appearance...
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
The BBC reports that:
quote:
It is understood that hymns will include I Vow to Thee My Country, To be a Pilgrim and Love Divine, All Loves Excelling.
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
What do you think the liturgy will be like besides the hymns and music?
We'll just have to wait and see. I believe we have a Mystery Worshipper lined up to memorialize the event in any case.
I suspect only open to invited guests.
--------------------
Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ˇFelices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
It is ticket only - but don't underestimate the links of SoF ...
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
'Make me a channel of your peace'?
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
I have a bad feeling that 'I vow to thee, my country' might be making an appearance...
According to this morning's news, that's 10 points for dj_ordinaire.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I believe we have a Mystery Worshipper lined up to memorialize the event in any case.
I suspect only open to invited guests.
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
It is ticket only - but don't underestimate the links of SoF ...
The Ship may not be in the front lines of journalism, but back pews were made for us.
--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I bet they'll have 'I vow to thee my country'
I won that bet.
I've long thought, "And there's another country, I've heard of long ago", one of the saddest lines in any hymn.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
|
Posted
It does just occur to me: if she gets a state funeral, where will she get a funeral that actually addresses her as a person, rather than as a mythical figure...
--------------------
"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
|
Posted
Perhaps Julia Gillard should advise the Queen not to attend herself but rather to send one of the young Yorks as her representative.
--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
# 12744
|
Posted
The Order of Service is now available.
--------------------
I've started blogging. I don't promise you'll find anything to interest you at uncleconrad
Posts: 946 | From: Mount Fairy, NSW | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
|
Posted
Many questions, for starters:
- How exactly is this different from a state funeral ?
- WTF is a mourning sword, and why would you need a sword in a church service anyway ?
- Since when do you lay secular honours on an altar ?
- If the service is being taken by the Bishop of London, why the surfeit of archbishops ?
[ 14. April 2013, 09:20: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
|
Posted
What a pity the modernised version of To be a Pilgrim is being sung. Neil Kinnock would make a good hobgoblin, and there are few better representations around of foul fiends than Scargill. Between them, and with a bit of help from Michael Foot, they ensured the continued government by Mrs Thatcher.
--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Many questions, for starters:
- How exactly is this different from a state funeral ?
- WTF is a mourning sword, and why would you need a sword in a church service anyway ?
- Since when do you lay secular honours on an altar ?
- If the service is being taken by the Bishop of London, why the surfeit of archbishops ?
The guardian post linked on the other thread goves some differences.
A ceremonial funeral has 2 guns/minute less but can afford horses.
It also doesn't need a vote.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I believe we have a Mystery Worshipper lined up to memorialize the event in any case.
I suspect only open to invited guests.
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
It is ticket only - but don't underestimate the links of SoF ...
The Ship may not be in the front lines of journalism, but back pews were made for us.
I have visions of it being akin to conclave MWing in Rome all over again!
--------------------
Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ˇFelices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Many questions, for starters:
- How exactly is this different from a state funeral ?
- WTF is a mourning sword, and why would you need a sword in a church service anyway ?
- Since when do you lay secular honours on an altar ?
- If the service is being taken by the Bishop of London, why the surfeit of archbishops ?
I think that the sword is a symbol of the City of London's authority here, but this is only on a vague memory of having seen this somewhere. The mourning bit is the black cord or lacquer used on swords worn by those in mourning-- I suppose it is the swordsman's version of black tie. According to Pepys and other folk, gentlemen would often wear their swords while attending services. I like to think that it is to keep thurifers and clergy in line, but that's the romantic in me.
I have seen decorations both laid on the coffin (more common), or on a stand in front of the coffin, but twice I have seen them on their cushion on the altar (once at the Polish RC parish here, and another time at an Anglican church in BC, both for airmen of the last war). I think that placing them on the coffin be preferred to the altar-- perhaps the symbolism is that of an offering?
As far as archbishops go, surely they can attend any service they please? In this case, Lady Thatcher) was an officer of state and, as metropolitans in an established church, this is natural. The mischievous might say that the presence of the successor of S Paulinus is to ensure that she is no longer in a position to wreak havoc on the northern province.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I have visions of it being akin to conclave MWing in Rome all over again!
No, April Fools is over and past.
--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
Hmm.
Don't know about that. Don't know at all. A shame about the quote from Little Gidding, I like that! Not sure what Vaughan Williams, Percy Dearmer and various other noted socialists would think of their work being used in such a manner either.
I'm also intrigued to know what a 'Ceremoniarius', and how one acquires such a creature. It sounds like it might be useful around the home.
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
What a pity the modernised version of To be a Pilgrim is being sung. Neil Kinnock would make a good hobgoblin, and there are few better representations around of foul fiends than Scargill. Between them, and with a bit of help from Michael Foot, they ensured the continued government by Mrs Thatcher.
I'd have thought some shippies, who have a mystifying attachment to him, would prefer that it's the Dearmer mangled version. It's probably more appropriate as that was the one usually found in school hymn books 80 years ago.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Japes
Shipmate
# 5358
|
Posted
It's just a posh name for Master of Ceremonies.
--------------------
Blog may or may not be of any interest.
Posts: 2013 | From: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
