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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What is a crucifix without a christ when it isn't a cross?
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HughWillRidmee
Shipmate
# 15614
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Posted
Seen recently in a small, rural, French church. (Clergoux, Correze).
An apparent crucifix some 1.5m(?) high on the stone wall to the right of the window behind the simple altar. (Brilliant windows as well incidentally). Apparently a dark monochromatic cross with a Christ hanging upon it, a Christ of the same colour as the light stone of the wall.
But it wasn't. My partner noticed first.
The structure was in two parts - the upper a cross bar with a relatively short central vertical. Towards the ends of the crossbar cut-outs, rather like the top third of a keyhole but extending from the underside to one third from the top of the bar and each angled at about 45 degrees from inner lower to upper outer. Beneath the short vertical a semi-circular cut-out offset to the left with a narrowing tongue of the sole material extending a few inches as though a continuation of the right side of the vertical.
Beneath this is a lower part - separated by c. 0.5m of air from the upper - a simple vertical of the same width as the upper parts, with a cut-out at the top somewhat akin to a stalactite (offset a little to the left) with a swollen termination centrally in the vertical.
Clearly the artist was, very cleverly, using the human tendency to make sense of sparse data. The cut-outs on the crossbar looked like hands, the central cut-out like the top of a head and the stalactite transformed into a thigh, calves and overlapping feet. The central gap became, in the imagination, the body hanging between the nailed hands and the lower legs.
I have never seen such an interpretation, though my knowledge of such matters is minimal.
Is this a common style of depiction?
It occurred to me the style could be interpreted, for RCs etc., as a crucifix - as an empty cross for those of a background more like mine - or as an atheist's disguised comment. Neat eh?
Can't find any image on the www so no link, hence the tortuous description. Took a couple of photos though.
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The danger to society is not merely that it should believe wrong things.. but that it should become credulous, and lose the habit of testing things and inquiring into them...
W. K. Clifford, "The Ethics of Belief" (1877)
Posts: 894 | From: Middle England | Registered: Apr 2010
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
If you can put your pictures on something like www.photobucket.com and then link to them here, it would be helpful to see what you are talking about.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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HughWillRidmee
Shipmate
# 15614
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
If you can put your pictures on something like www.photobucket.com and then link to them here, it would be helpful to see what you are talking about.
Thanks
this
Not too clear - partly poor lighting and partly poor photography
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The danger to society is not merely that it should believe wrong things.. but that it should become credulous, and lose the habit of testing things and inquiring into them...
W. K. Clifford, "The Ethics of Belief" (1877)
Posts: 894 | From: Middle England | Registered: Apr 2010
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
My answer to the OP question would be, "Art."
Wow. I've never seen anything like that. It's beautiful. The execution is so simple it's almost naive, but the idea could be very fruitful for meditation. It draws my mind to the concept of the absence of God, but that's probably just me.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I like it too. Incarnational and apophatic in one go.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
I think it's quite brilliant. I find it quite evocative, even stunning just looking at the photos you've posted. I'm sure its effect is even more profound when you're actually there.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Another vote for stunning.
I think still technically a crucifix and I find there is something moving about connecting it with the Hiroshima bodies but also think there is a echo of the Pompeii body casts.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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aig
Shipmate
# 429
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Posted
What an amazing find in the middle of nowhere. I also think it is stunning.
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That's not how we do it here.......
Posts: 464 | From: the middle bit at the bottom slightly to the right | Registered: Jun 2001
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
Someone's been very clever, but I agree, it's beautiful in its simplicity.
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
"He is not here."
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
The imagery I see here is slightly different, recalling -- "I am the vine; you are the branches." (John 15:5)
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
I like...
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
"He is not here."
That was my reaction, too.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
So rich in its possible interpretations, isn't it?
The crucifix is meant to help us connect our sufferings with Christ's (which is why so many people touch them), so the emptiness is really quite profound. It's both the emptiness we suffer from - e.g., when we feel God is absent, or when we feel devoid of worth or meaning - and the self-emptying of Christ which heals us. It evokes for me a sense of longing which Christ fulfills. And just as it requires the perceptual trick of the human mind (which actively seeks out the human form) to see it, so seeing God - and seeing Being, Unity, Beauty, Goodness, and Truth - in a broken, bleeding, dying man on a cross requires the "eyes" of faith.
And what does it mean when you can't touch Christ on his Cross? Is there a bit of Noli me tangere here?
This is a great example of how art can be a source for theology, not merely an illustration. You can find insights in your experience with a work of art like this.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
This is a picture I took in the Brazilian village of Icoaraci, but I think I like the French one better.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
Interesting photo, LeRoc.
I love the French cross in the church. It is beautiful. And actually thought Mousethief's comment about the Hiroshema shadow was apposite. Along with Kelly's. Like when we look at the cross we see an historic image of what was - as an eternal fact - but still able to see, too, that Jesus isn't there any more.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
It just occurred to me how funny it would be if we were all hopelessly wide of the mark, and HughWillRidmee happened to arrive at the church just after someone had stolen the statue of Jesus.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
No fan of the crucifix here, but that is deeply moving piece of art.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I agree Adeodatus it would be funny but the lack of marks of nails or other fixing means that I sincerely doubt it.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
Clever in concept, profound in meaning and beautiful in design. Love it.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Grammatica
Shipmate
# 13248
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
"He is not here."
That was my reaction, too.
And mine - but he is still here for us, we still see him.
Posts: 1058 | From: where the lemon trees blosson | Registered: Dec 2007
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
Not usually a fan of the crucifix but would love to sit in front of this one. Great art touches the heart.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
Love it. What a clever thing. Thanks for sharing it.
I wonder who the person in a small church was that commissioned/bought it? It's very simple, but it does bear thinking about - I also thought of the "He is not here..." comment from the tomb, amongst other things. It does lend itself to thinkings and ponderings, doesn't it?
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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