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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Atheist church
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
Baton Rouge, La - that's Jimmy Swaggart territory, but I think he gets more than 80 turn up for his events.
It's no use telling other people where they should and shouldn't go, everyone has a mind of their own - but I know where I'd rather be if I was living there. I don't see how "To Delight in Being Alive" can be much comfort to people who have recently lost dear ones.
"Someday, what you are doing will become normal. Isn’t that a feeling?" Now, where have I heard that before? I get the feeling that if proponents of these atheist "churches" say this enough, they think everyone will believe it.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
It certainly smacked of a white middle-class academic "set", who don't actually do very much, apart from their once-per-month entertainment show, where they pat each other on the back and celebrate how nice and moralistic atheists are.
I wonder what impression a visitor to an average church service would get about the amount and quality of 'action' its participants get up to in between their self-congratulatory 'shows' -- and whether the opinion they formed would have any more objective validity than the one you've so pointedly formed on this atheists' assembly.
This is going to come across as massively judgemental, perhaps because that's exactly what it is... Anyway, I think you're right, kankucho; plenty of religious activities probably are regular (I guess usually weekly, not monthly) shows between which nothing much happens. It shouldn't be this way, of course, but maybe it often is. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
Here's the latest on Sanderson Jones' venture:
Funday School: the Sunday Assembly finds a new home
News is pretty scant these days, and it's back "after a brief break" - that means just one meeting in two months.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
But I do think the preacher in the linked article has a point: there is little community sense in NOT belonging to something. So, how do you find some sense of community without some form of ecclesia?
Easy.
Sporting club, bridge club, birdwatching club, rotary club, environmental club, political club, volunteer club, schools, universities etc etc.
There are million different options.
But whipping up emotion against a common cause is an excellent way to bind people too. That's why nationalism is so powerful.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
It certainly smacked of a white middle-class academic "set", who don't actually do very much, apart from their once-per-month entertainment show, where they pat each other on the back and celebrate how nice and moralistic atheists are.
I wonder what impression a visitor to an average church service would get about the amount and quality of 'action' its participants get up to in between their self-congratulatory 'shows' -- and whether the opinion they formed would have any more objective validity than the one you've so pointedly formed on this atheists' assembly.
This is going to come across as massively judgemental, perhaps because that's exactly what it is... Anyway, I think you're right, kankucho; plenty of religious activities probably are regular (I guess usually weekly, not monthly) shows between which nothing much happens. It shouldn't be this way, of course, but maybe it often is.
Jesus.
Youse make it sound like church is some kind of social justice club.
Don't need to go to church to do that.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
But I do think the preacher in the linked article has a point: there is little community sense in NOT belonging to something. So, how do you find some sense of community without some form of ecclesia?
Easy.
Sporting club, bridge club, birdwatching club, rotary club, environmental club, political club, volunteer club, schools, universities etc etc.
There are million different options.
But whipping up emotion against a common cause is an excellent way to bind people too. That's why nationalism is so powerful.
Let's just say this: it's not at all surprising that the political scientist Robert Putnam has written a book called American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us and one called Bowling Alone, the latter of which is about the decline of community and social organizations and clubs. Megachurches have filled a lot of that gap with Zuumba classes, birdwatching, and whatever else; us mainliners have our knitting clubs and so on.
But if atheists don't believe in the power of ritual (and that's a big if, not true of all such atheist or humanist gatherings), then they're really just getting together once in a while to discuss morality and meaning. And wait, there's not much discussion.
At least we can claim something intrinsically important for our once-a-week get-togethers.
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
...But whipping up emotion against a common cause is an excellent way to bind people too. That's why nationalism is so powerful.
Are you saying that this is what these atheist "churches" are really all about? That they are like political pressure groups (strictly left wing) of white middle class academics with nothing better to do?
Is their main purpose to take on the rise of nationalism, and eradicate religion (which they associate with the far right)?
It is very easy for a political ideology to become more important in itself than the people it affects.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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SusanDoris
Incurable Optimist
# 12618
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Posted
I saw this thread and your name for last post, so thought you might have news. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) However, having thought, I did a google search and came up with two links, the second one of which isthis one dated 23 June. So thank you for prompting me!
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I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Posts: 3083 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
ISTM that most of the atheists that I know are more in the mode of saying "I can't be arsed" than they are of definitely denying anything.
Churches often refuse to deal with the questions people ask, preferring to offer irrelevant or pointless answers to serious questions. The people who then give up on church may want some form of ritual or gathering-with-a-purpose, but they still want something that seems positive to them. So saying "not... not...not" is unlikely among them.
But, yes, there are plenty of Christians who say "not...not...not..." but all too often it is about other people, not themselves, and this tends to turn even more people off.
Try thinking of Gandhi saying that he understood and would like to follow Jesus, but the Christians turned him off. Is that what you are trying to do, AE?
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
ISTM that most of the atheists that I know are more in the mode of saying "I can't be arsed" than they are of definitely denying anything.
Churches often refuse to deal with the questions people ask, preferring to offer irrelevant or pointless answers to serious questions. The people who then give up on church may want some form of ritual or gathering-with-a-purpose, but they still want something that seems positive to them. So saying "not... not...not" is unlikely among them.
But, yes, there are plenty of Christians who say "not...not...not..." but all too often it is about other people, not themselves, and this tends to turn even more people off.
Try thinking of Gandhi saying that he understood and would like to follow Jesus, but the Christians turned him off. Is that what you are trying to do, AE?
If "AE" is me, no, I was just making a little joke about the fact that there's an "atheist church."
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Posts: 1157 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
I saw this thread and your name for last post, so thought you might have news. However, having thought, I did a google search and came up with two links, the second one of which isthis one dated 23 June. So thank you for prompting me!
Sorry to be so blunt, but I recognize all the usual atheist/humanist dogmas, but the article had nothing whatsoever to do with Atheist "churches."
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
...But whipping up emotion against a common cause is an excellent way to bind people too. That's why nationalism is so powerful.
Are you saying that this is what these atheist "churches" are really all about? That they are like political pressure groups (strictly left wing) of white middle class academics with nothing better to do?
Is their main purpose to take on the rise of nationalism, and eradicate religion (which they associate with the far right)?
No.
That kind of specificity would entirely depend on the type of atheist church it is and the agenda of the "pastor" and "congregation".
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
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Posted
What Evensong said.
Surely atheists differ as much among themselves as Christians do. ![[Confused]](confused.gif) Not every atheist is a militant type who wants to eradicate religion from the face of the earth! I am pretty certain that many people attending the Sunday Assembly wouldn't have that attitude. They're just not interested in religion and feel this is a community-based alternative to religious faith ... or so I imagine. I don't see anything political about their setup at all. Indeed, they seem to be a very inoffensive lot.
It's the National Secular Society - who an atheist friend of mine once described as being full of 'angry ex-Catholics' and he should know, he was friends with a lot of them - who can get a bit shirty. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laurelin:
It's the National Secular Society - who an atheist friend of mine once described as being full of 'angry ex-Catholics' and he should know, he was friends with a lot of them - who can get a bit shirty.
Or The Freedom From Religion Foundation ( US equivalent?) that actively seek to denigrate religion and are bound emotionally against a cause.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
If "AE" is me, no, I was just making a little joke about the fact that there's an "atheist church."
In which case the joke is on you. The atheists aren't the ones calling it an atheist church, it's the media and people like Mark Betts who never let facts get in the way of their prejudices.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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kankucho
Shipmate
# 14318
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
Do they recite a creed? I'm imagining something like,
I don't believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth.
I don't believe in Jesus Christ . . .
The first five words of that can be taken as read - if not actually recited. As for the rest of it... Well, you would be imagining that, wouldn't you? But atheism doesn't concern itself with the specific beliefs of others.
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"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" – Dr. Carl Sagan
Kankucho Bird Blues
Posts: 1262 | From: Kuon-ganjo, E17 | Registered: Nov 2008
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
Do they recite a creed? I'm imagining something like,
I don't believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth.
I don't believe in Jesus Christ . . .
This reminds me of Christians that define themselves by what they don't do.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
It is very easy for a political ideology to become more important in itself than the people it affects.
The same is true of religious ideology.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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