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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Postponing Sex
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
This is all rather thin retrospective justification. We exist so that we can reproduce and pass on our DNA. That is the whole point of the human species - to breed and die off so that we're not competing for resources with the people we bred.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
That's a rather teleological atheist explanation. Which is a contradiction.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
There's nothing theist or atheist about it, as it just is.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Reading back over this thread makes me worry that I look like I'm trolling, which I'm genuinely not.
Actually you look like you are trying to find an excuse for some bad behaviour or desires in your youth so you come out with "I couldn't help it it was the hormones" and "none of you can know what it was like because you are all too old and decrepid"
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Nope. There is absolutely no bad behaviour in my youth.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
How could a machine do bad behaviour? It just is.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
This is all rather thin retrospective justification. We exist so that we can reproduce and pass on our DNA. That is the whole point of the human species - to breed and die off so that we're not competing for resources with the people we bred.
No, this is confusing method for motive. And, as pointed out, it is an overly simplistic and narrow view.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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angelfish
Shipmate
# 8884
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
The best people for advice tend to be the people closest to the original mindset through which people are battling. At 40, I believe I'm too old, so anyone older than that might, in general, thought to be even less in touch with it.
So could a woman in her forties - her sexual peak,, apparently - give advice on dealng with sexual urges to a teen boy?
To be honest DTO, i am really unimpressed by your argument. You seem to think nobody has a memory. I can't feel the feelings I felt twenty years ago, but I can remember feeling them and I can remeber how I dealt with them and how that turned out for me. So as far as I am concerned I am in a great position to advise somebody experiencing similar feelins now.
Also your whole "nature is indifferent to non breeders" thing is a pile of crap. nature is indifferent to breeders too. The personification of nature is a handy rhetorical device, but you seem to have made the mistake of thinking that nature literally exists as a person who cares about how things turn out.
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"As God is my witness, I WILL kick Bishop Brennan up the arse!"
Posts: 1017 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yes, 'we exist, so ...' is surely impermissible for any atheist. Evolution has no direction. There is no reason why we exist, if you are an atheist. Is just is.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by angelfish:
To be honest DTO, i am really unimpressed by your argument. You seem to think nobody has a memory. I can't feel the feelings I felt twenty years ago, but I can remember feeling them and I can remeber how I dealt with them and how that turned out for me. So as far as I am concerned I am in a great position to advise somebody experiencing similar feelins now.
I would say you would be in a better person to advise than someone who has not yet discovered the outcomes of said feelings. You not only know how you felt, but you know what happened next. You can give spoilers, so to speak that might forewarn.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
angelfish wrote:
Also your whole "nature is indifferent to non breeders" thing is a pile of crap. nature is indifferent to breeders too. The personification of nature is a handy rhetorical device, but you seem to have made the mistake of thinking that nature literally exists as a person who cares about how things turn out.
Yes. This whole 'nature doesn't care' stuff strikes me as bizarre talk. Nature has no capacity to care or not care, if you are an atheist. The universe is neither beneficent nor uncaring, unless you are some kind of pantheist.
I don't know if Douglas is an atheist or not, but in any case, it amazes me how many of them whom one casually meets on t'internet are such shoddy thinkers, stringing together contradictions as if they were pearls on mummy's necklace. What is going on in atheist-land?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
No, nature doesn't care. It's indifferent.
I find it bizarre that anyone, Christian or atheist, expects it would.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
You missed my point. Nature neither cares, nor doesn't care. It is not indifferent; it is not beneficent.
FFS, I give up.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, 'we exist, so ...' is surely impermissible for any atheist. Evolution has no direction. There is no reason why we exist, if you are an atheist. Is just is.
(Tentatively...) This is what I was trying to say. The whole idea of a "reason" for a species to exist is teleological. If you are a theist, reproduction is not the reason. If you are an atheist, there is no reason.
Also it is a moving of the goalposts. As has already been established, there's more to being relevant to the species than having offspring, because there's more to the species than reproduction, even on a non-theistic reading. Bringing in the "point" of the species is an attempt to shift the argument onto other grounds, but as those grounds completely undermine the Otter's point, it didn't work.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, 'we exist, so ...' is surely impermissible for any atheist. Evolution has no direction. There is no reason why we exist, if you are an atheist. Is just is.
(Tentatively...) This is what I was trying to say. The whole idea of a "reason" for a species to exist is teleological. If you are a theist, reproduction is not the reason. If you are an atheist, there is no reason.
Also it is a moving of the goalposts. As has already been established, there's more to being relevant to the species than having offspring, because there's more to the species than reproduction, even on a non-theistic reading. Bringing in the "point" of the species is an attempt to shift the argument onto other grounds, but as those grounds completely undermine the Otter's point, it didn't work.
Excellent.
This guy Otter is all over the place, alternating between hard-line materialist positions, and anthropomorphic stuff, which doesn't fly under atheism. Maybe he's not an atheist.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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angelfish
Shipmate
# 8884
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
No, nature doesn't care. It's indifferent.
I find it bizarre that anyone, Christian or atheist, expects it would.
But a term like "indifferent" implies some sort of attitude, which implies sentience. Nature (ie the universe and everything in it) is, and that is all that can be said from a materialist perspective. Similarly, stating a reason for our existence (eg "we exist to pass on our genes") implies intentionality behind our existence, which makes no sense from the materialist perspective you seem to be advocating. We just exist because we can, and there is no "why?", only "how".
[ 03. July 2013, 17:21: Message edited by: angelfish ]
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"As God is my witness, I WILL kick Bishop Brennan up the arse!"
Posts: 1017 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2004
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Sorry, the term 'indifferent' seems to be causing problems. Nature 'cares' insofar as successful species are rewarded with continued existence. Unsuccessful ones die out.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Sorry, the term 'indifferent' seems to be causing problems.
If that were the only problem with your position, you'd be winning the argument.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
My position is that we exist by accident because conditions were favourable to us doing so. Had they not, we'd have gone the way of dinosaurs and lumbered off into the twilight of evolutionary history. As it is, we've flourished, but the fact we have opposable thumbs, wear suits and eat Pot Noodle shouldn't blind us to the fact that we are still animals, underneath the thin veneer of civilisation and there is one law all animals must observe if their species is to survive - reproduce. And there really isn't much else.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Alisdair
Shipmate
# 15837
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Posted
DouglasTheOtter -- doesn't your argument rather confuse functionality with meaning, e.g. a sonnet is required to have fourteen lines in iambic pentameter with the rhyme scheme: a-b-a-b, c-d-c-d, e-f-e-f, g-g. That describes the functionality/structure of a 'sonnet' as a particular kind of poetic device, BUT tells us nothing at all about the content, its purpose, or meaning.
Likewise, given the space time constraints of this existence, successful reproduction is a basic functional requirement for any living thing, but that doesn't necessarily tell us anything at all, or very little, about the actual purpose or meaning of that creature's existence.
Rather like Eustace in 'The Voyage of the Dawn Treader' declaring that he knows exactly what a star is---a huge ball of flaming gas---only to be reminded that he has merely offered an description of what a star is made of, not an explanation of what a star actually is. All depends on one's point of view of course.
Posts: 334 | From: Washed up in England | Registered: Aug 2010
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alisdair:
DouglasTheOtter -- doesn't your argument rather confuse functionality with meaning, e.g. a sonnet is required to have fourteen lines in iambic pentameter with the rhyme scheme: a-b-a-b, c-d-c-d, e-f-e-f, g-g. That describes the functionality/structure of a 'sonnet' as a particular kind of poetic device, BUT tells us nothing at all about the content, its purpose, or meaning.
Likewise, given the space time constraints of this existence, successful reproduction is a basic functional requirement for any living thing, but that doesn't necessarily tell us anything at all, or very little, about the actual purpose or meaning of that creature's existence.
Rather like Eustace in 'The Voyage of the Dawn Treader' declaring that he knows exactly what a star is---a huge ball of flaming gas---only to be reminded that he has merely offered an description of what a star is made of, not an explanation of what a star actually is. All depends on one's point of view of course.
That's quite an interesting formulation, especially as I never read past the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, and a slightly bad experience on the Alpha Course inclines me to be wary of CS Lewis. The fact that he's venerated as a saint by St. Nicky of Gumbel and the crowd at HTB makes me even more so. But that to one side, a huge ball of flaming gas is exactly what a star is. Reduced to its barest essentials, that account of it is accurate.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
My position is that we exist by accident because conditions were favourable to us doing so. Had they not, we'd have gone the way of dinosaurs and lumbered off into the twilight of evolutionary history. As it is, we've flourished, but the fact we have opposable thumbs, wear suits and eat Pot Noodle shouldn't blind us to the fact that we are still animals, underneath the thin veneer of civilisation and there is one law all animals must observe if their species is to survive - reproduce. And there really isn't much else.
There isn't much else, if all you care about is survival. But we humans have evolved the ability to care about more than survival. You are treating human wants, desires, values, as if they don't exist. YOU are making a value judgment that all that matters is the survival of the species. NATURE doesn't make that value judgement. YOU do. Nature doesn't impose reductionism. Reductionist humans do. But not all humans are reductionists. Nobody put you in charge of deciding what is important for the species. Good thing, too.
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Reduced to its barest essentials, that account of it is accurate.
But why should it be reduced to its barest essentials? Again there is a value judgment going on here.
[ 03. July 2013, 18:15: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
My position is that we exist by accident because conditions were favourable to us doing so. Had they not, we'd have gone the way of dinosaurs and lumbered off into the twilight of evolutionary history. As it is, we've flourished, but the fact we have opposable thumbs, wear suits and eat Pot Noodle shouldn't blind us to the fact that we are still animals, underneath the thin veneer of civilisation and there is one law all animals must observe if their species is to survive - reproduce. And there really isn't much else.
There isn't much else, if all you care about is survival. But we humans have evolved the ability to care about more than survival. You are treating human wants, desires, values, as if they don't exist. YOU are making a value judgment that all that matters is the survival of the species. NATURE doesn't make that value judgement. YOU do. Nature doesn't impose reductionism. Reductionist humans do. But not all humans are reductionists. Nobody put you in charge of deciding what is important for the species. Good thing, too.
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Reduced to its barest essentials, that account of it is accurate.
But why should it be reduced to its barest essentials? Again there is a value judgment going on here.
Human wants and desires are the gilding on the piece of sculpture, Scraped away, there's still the same reality underneath.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Alisdair
Shipmate
# 15837
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Posted
DouglasTheOtter -- only if all you are interested in is the star's material components; likewise the structure of a sonnet.
We only see from our perspective, but it would be a very brave (or foolish) person who would say categorically that our perspective is complete or final. In fact it seems that the more we find out, the more we realise, not only how little we know, but how little we understand.
Nevertheless, there are other angles of attack that, when added to our 'scientific' explorations that may be helpful to our humility and wisdom in learning who we are, what we are, and where we fit in, may be even why we are. ;-)
Posts: 334 | From: Washed up in England | Registered: Aug 2010
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Human wants and desires are the gilding on the piece of sculpture, Scraped away, there's still the same reality underneath.
So fucking what? WHY SHOULD THEY BE SCRAPED AWAY?
You're saying the same thing over and over again, but not giving any justification for your reductionism.
[ 03. July 2013, 18:33: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
There is no argument for reductionism of this kind, except 'this is the way in which I want to portray reality'. Ironically, this then falls into the very subjectivist morass which it is supposed to avoid!
It's true, because I say it is. Olé.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Human wants and desires are the gilding on the piece of sculpture, Scraped away, there's still the same reality underneath.
So fucking what? WHY SHOULD THEY BE SCRAPED AWAY?
You're saying the same thing over and over again, but not giving any justification for your reductionism.
So that we know what really lies underneath.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
DouglasTheOtter: So that we know what really lies underneath.
In my case: raw aggression, perverse desires, a pit of unspeakable thoughts.
Do you mean those?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
DouglasTheOtter: So that we know what really lies underneath.
In my case: raw aggression, perverse desires, a pit of unspeakable thoughts.
Do you mean those?
Yup. That's the animal. And he's within everyone, somewhere.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
DouglasTheOtter: Yup. That's the animal. And he's within everyone, somewhere.
(I wasn't completely serious when I posted that.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Now you have changed the topic entirely. From what's relevant, to what's the point, to what lies underneath. If that's refuted, where will you go next?
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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angelfish
Shipmate
# 8884
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
So that we know what really lies underneath.
Ooh look, here is a human being, all complex with social interactions, emotions, spiritual yearning and poetry... No, scrape all that away, it's really just an animal.... No, scrape the skin off it's really just some muscular tissue and fat.... No, scrape that off, it's really just a skeleton... No, scrape that away, it's really just some marrow... No, scrape that aw.. Oh it's gone.
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"As God is my witness, I WILL kick Bishop Brennan up the arse!"
Posts: 1017 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2004
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
DouglasTheOtter: Yup. That's the animal. And he's within everyone, somewhere.
(I wasn't completely serious when I posted that.)
I know, but the urge to have sex is the animal within you. Some people have mastered it and for others its closer to the surface. To think about this more carefully and to gild it with statements such as 'love' and 'companionship' is to disguise what, in my opinion, is a rather ugly reality.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
1. What's so ugly about the urge to have sex?
2. Love and understanding are part of reality too. Humans are more than just what you want to reduce them to. What's ugly is your reductionism.
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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
DouglasTheOtter: I know, but the urge to have sex is the animal within you.
I agree with mousethief that you seem to have changed the topic here. No-one denies that we sex is a natural urge that is mainly caused by evolution. But I'll leave you at it for now.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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angelfish
Shipmate
# 8884
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Posted
Douglas, might I venture to suggest that if this really is your view of sex you (a) are definitely not qualified to advise lust-riddled teens, whatever your age; and (b) for your own sake, you need to start having better sex.
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"As God is my witness, I WILL kick Bishop Brennan up the arse!"
Posts: 1017 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2004
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
Well, I'd never put myself forward for advising lust-addled teens as I'm firstly too old and far removed from their concerns and, secondly, have a rather bleak view of human experience. My conception of God is a rather dark one of something that watches us mewl and crawl and do a myriad other things with a rather sad eye. And when it comes to the dirty deed itself, for a range of private reasons, I'm afraid I've given up on it.
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Dougas, if I believed in the bleak world you portray I think I'd curl up in a corner and die.
It sounds totally joyless.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Most affecting DTO, most affecting. Real. Explains everything. God bless you mate.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Sex is obviously a very sensitive issue - please do think carefully about what you wish to share in this debating space.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Most affecting DTO, most affecting. Real. Explains everything. God bless you mate.
Teensy bit patronising, maybe?
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Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I'm sure it is mate. So ... sorry. The anger you so easily evoke passes more easily nonetheless. I'm sorry for your suffering. I know what pain is. The pain of love and loss and eros - which encapsulates both, we dumb it down so - so much, much more than my teenage self for most of my 50s.
You're hurting and I'm sorry.
[ 03. July 2013, 20:39: Message edited by: Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Most affecting DTO, most affecting. Real. Explains everything. God bless you mate.
Teensy bit patronising, maybe?
If you want my take on that, ...probably not. Though, as always with Martin, hard to tell for sure.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
It's worse than that anoesis, I'm genuine and therefore self-deceived. I feel for the guy. I know what it's like to have your heart ripped out. And be fecklessly complicit in it. And having ripped out others' hearts. Again and again ... and again. To be loveless in response to being unloved. To be unloving in the name of love. We are very broken creatures.
[ 03. July 2013, 21:01: Message edited by: Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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DouglasTheOtter
Ship's aquatic mammal
# 17681
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Posted
This is a good time for me to step out.
Thanks for the argument, people, and you raised some good points.
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Need writing or copywriting? Visit me at...
www.rjpmedia.net
Posts: 171 | From: Twickenham | Registered: May 2013
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
Because teenagerdom is a time when hormones start to kick in and your body undergoes powerful physiological changes that turn you from a child into an adult. It'd be impossible to recapture the intensity of this time, if only from a biochemical point of view.
Like you (I guess), I remember this time in my own life very well (I'm now in my late thirties). Given the strength of my owm memories, I consider myself suitably qualified to proffer an opinion on the subject.
Whether my biology has reduced my urge to have sex since then is, frankly, of no importance. Yes it has reduced. But now I have young children, a full-time job and a mortgage. Most of the time I'm too busy or exhausted even to think about sex. It should hardly be necessary to point out that all sorts of things impact on one's sex drive, and age is only one of them.
FWIW, and in response to a point above, I am a father of daughters and haven't noticed my moral views on sex becoming more conservative. My hope is that once they are adults they will have enjoyable and responsible sex lives. Whether that is within marriage is something that I regard much more of a mere detail than I used to.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by DouglasTheOtter:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Most affecting DTO, most affecting. Real. Explains everything. God bless you mate.
Teensy bit patronising, maybe?
If you want my take on that, ...probably not. Though, as always with Martin, hard to tell for sure.
There are at least two posters on this thread being far more obscure than MPCN.
And everything he has said here has been bang on I think.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
FWIW, and in response to a point above, I am a father of daughters and haven't noticed my moral views on sex becoming more conservative. My hope is that once they are adults they will have enjoyable and responsible sex lives. Whether that is within marriage is something that I regard much more of a mere detail than I used to.
Fair enough.
As I also suggested above, I think one's sociological context also makes a difference. A middle class British family are probably going to be far less worried about their well-educated daughters becoming teenage mothers than a less privileged parent who knows that unwholesome peer-pressure and an insalubrious local setting might easily derail their children.
Hopeful parents who've seen teenage parenthood destroy youthful promise in their own extended families or social circle are likely to be more anxious than those who've never experienced these things. And these parents, if they're churchgoing, will expect their churches to understand their concerns rather than dismissing them as old-fashioned prudery. Churches in more comfortable areas can probably be more laid-back because this issue isn't all that serious for their members.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Fool on the hill
Shipmate
# 9428
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by angelfish:
Douglas, might I venture to suggest that if this really is your view of sex you (a) are definitely not qualified to advise lust-riddled teens, whatever your age; and (b) for your own sake, you need to start having better sex.
This...
Posts: 792 | Registered: May 2005
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
As I also suggested above, I think one's sociological context also makes a difference. A middle class British family are probably going to be far less worried about their well-educated daughters becoming teenage mothers than a less privileged parent who knows that unwholesome peer-pressure and an insalubrious local setting might easily derail their children.
In case any clarification were needed, "responsible" includes "not getting pregnant outside a stable relationship" and "not getting pregnant while in one's teens".
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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