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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Opinions on UCCF (aka the ones behind the Christian Unions)
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Help ma Boab, I'm lost. Is this supposed to be Christianity? There's no hope. SUs chucking off CUs and vice versa, women can't speak petty infighting amongst groups. Get rid of them all. Christ's Body is the Church, not some poncy little organisation run by a bunch of spotty nineteen year olds. But I dont know my acronyms from my italicisms
, maybe best that I get down to my local gospel hall, I'm clearly not clever enough to be amongst the Bright Young Things of SOF, CU, CM, UCCF or FTWALOS.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
That's not what Lep's talking about, is it though? He's saying that no CU has been chucked out of UCCF for not using these nonexistent mandatory bible study notes
He and no-one else - maybe it was poorly phrased but I was talking about the social dynamics within individual CUs, explicitly making the point that UCCF doesn't need to enforce anything.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Help ma Boab, I'm lost. Is this supposed to be Christianity? There's no hope. SUs chucking off CUs and vice versa, women can't speak petty infighting amongst groups. Get rid of them all. Christ's Body is the Church, not some poncy little organisation run by a bunch of spotty nineteen year olds. But I dont know my acronyms from my italicisms
, maybe best that I get down to my local gospel hall, I'm clearly not clever enough to be amongst the Bright Young Things of SOF, CU, CM, UCCF or FTWALOS.
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leprechaun
Ship's Poison Elf
# 5408
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
One thing to Lep though: CUs may be free to disaffiliate, but IME if they do (eg. Sheffield, Loughborough (which dates me!)) UCCF don't respect that decision, but start a new UCCF-branded organisation.
In each of those cases the new group was started by some students who then chose to affiliate with UCCF. It's not practically possible for UCCF to start campus groups.
Personally, I am all for the proliferation of different faith groups on campus - the more diverse viewpoints the better for universities IMO. I'm surprised how many people here think that non-mainstream views should be silenced.
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He hath loved us, He hath loved us, because he would love
Posts: 3097 | From: England - far from home... | Registered: Jan 2004
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S. Bacchus
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# 17778
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by scuffleball:
Tangent - is liberal religion more common in post-grads and extremism in undergrads then?
Probably. Or, at least there's more likely to be less diversity among the postgrads. Postgrads and academics are, by and large, the sort of people who, if they go to church, are likely to URC or liberal Anglican. They are similarly likely be members of the Labour, Liberal Democratic, or Green parties. Whereas a certain sort of undergraduate is bound to go off to a future in the City, the Conservative Party, and (if churchgoing) and one of the two Brompton flagships (according to taste).
That's obviously a grotesque caricature: not all postgrads are wet liberals, and certainly not all undergrads are raging conservatives; not all liberal Anglicans are politically leftish (David Cameron isn't, for instance) and not all Evangelicals or traditionalist Roman Catholics are politically conservative. But there are social groups at least some universities that match what I've described: Conservative Association, Christ Church Hunt (or Trinity Foot Beagles), and the Oxford Oratory (or the Tridentine Mass at Fisher House) on one hand; College chapel, feminist discussion group, and Labour society on the other. There's enough truth in the stereotype I'm making that anyone familiar with University life will recognize it. Of the two groups, the more liberal/left-leaning one is more likely to contain postgrads and academic staff.
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'It's not that simple. I won't have it to be that simple'.
Posts: 260 | Registered: Jul 2013
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Those students won't go off to one of the Brompton churches, they will already be there. HTB is the CU church of Imperial College. Princes Gardens where many of the halls of residence are situated almost backs on to the back of HTB, which is quiet during the long vacation and gears up for a new autumn intake in September.
Also in the area the Victorians laid aside for education with the museums and Imperial College are the Royal College of Music, Royal College of Art and Royal College of Organists (although that last one didn't have anything to do with the other students).
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Help ma Boab, I'm lost. Is this supposed to be Christianity? There's no hope. SUs chucking off CUs and vice versa, women can't speak petty infighting amongst groups. Get rid of them all. Christ's Body is the Church, not some poncy little organisation run by a bunch of spotty nineteen year olds. But I dont know my acronyms from my italicisms
, maybe best that I get down to my local gospel hall, I'm clearly not clever enough to be amongst the Bright Young Things of SOF, CU, CM, UCCF or FTWALOS.
Don't worry about the abbreviation stuff - we all have problems with those, except when we are on our own little planet when we are so used to our own ones that we forget that others won't have a clue - just ask and nag for meanings.
The student Union are not anything Christian and can make their own minds up about the Christian union groups - they can be very anti CUs linked to the national University Colleges Christian Fellowship group because of equality issues that student unions are very keen on. The Cu's wouldn't generally want to be associated with the SU for the pro gay, lesbian etc agenda.
(As for the Catholic Societies and women speakers I know of female Catholic chaplains and not heard of any bar on speakers - it is the sacramental that would be the issue and that will be at the local church rather than the student group)
AS for Christians not be very Christian to each other - yep, pretty normal as flawed human beings, and we get worse the more we think we are right which then assumes others are wrong...
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I'm going to stick my head above the parapet and say that my University CU was flippin' *awesome*. Possibly we were a bit leftfield because we were more charismatic than many UCCF member groups, and I certainly remember one disagreement with our UCCF worker on a point of biblical interpretation. But there was no question of throwing us out over it, at any rate. FWIW, we twice had a female president. We also invited the Catholic chaplain as a guest speaker.
Anyway the reason my CU rocked was simple - the people genuinely loved and cared for each other. We saw quite a few conversions (at least 5 or 6, which is huge for a British University the size of the one I went to) and the main reason is that these people were initially attracted to a group of slightly off the wall people who were just awesome friends to each other.
Now this doesn't mean we were perfect. We definitely did some stuff that some of us probably find a bit embarassing now. The reason is kinda simple - we were nineteen and at that age the world tends to look a lot more black and white than it does when you're older. But I'm not sure we were anymore embarassing than the Young Conservatives were in their politics, for example. That's why I think it's important for a CU to have good relationships with the leaders of local churches who have seen a bit more of the world and can tone down some of the excesses of youthful certainty. From memory, our members mostly attended the local (open evo) CofE, and a couple of free charismatic churches. We also had a few charismatic Catholic members.
(Incidentally, when the SU sanctioned a student society for its sexist/homophobic policies, everyone assumed they meant the CU. They didn't - it was the Islamic Society.)
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
I was a regular attender of both CU and SCM, 25 years ago. My CU's lowest point was when a Catholic stood for election to the exec and a virulent grassroots campaign was started against him. Its highest point was when he won anyway, by a comfortable majority. I then left uni so have no idea what his tenure was like.
I got so much more out of my three concurrent years with the SCM, precisely because of its tiny size and struggle with wishy washy liberalism. In its brokenness it was so much more open to God than the glittering theological perfection of CU.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Would love to belong - nobody is saying that CUs and other organisations should replace the church, that's not their aim. Indeed, UCCF is very firm on the issue that CU is NOT church and that members should attend local churches. But that doesn't stop CUs, SCM, CathSoc etc from being useful organisations for students to belong to. Not sure why you're condemning them when several former and current students here have said how useful they find student Christian organisations? Who are you to decide that their experiences aren't worth anything? Anyway, aren't you a nonbeliever? Without wanting to be rude, how can a nonbeliever know what's bad for Christians and what's not? It's like an evangelical telling the Atheist and Humanist society how it should run.
Re initialisms v acronyms, I didn't mean to imply that you weren't clever enough for the SoF, sorry if you felt picked on.
[ 19. August 2013, 11:05: Message edited by: Jade Constable ]
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I'm going to stick my head above the parapet and say that my University CU was flippin' *awesome*. Possibly we were a bit leftfield because we were more charismatic than many UCCF member groups, and I certainly remember one disagreement with our UCCF worker on a point of biblical interpretation. But there was no question of throwing us out over it, at any rate. FWIW, we twice had a female president. We also invited the Catholic chaplain as a guest speaker.
Anyway the reason my CU rocked was simple - the people genuinely loved and cared for each other. We saw quite a few conversions (at least 5 or 6, which is huge for a British University the size of the one I went to) and the main reason is that these people were initially attracted to a group of slightly off the wall people who were just awesome friends to each other.
Now this doesn't mean we were perfect. We definitely did some stuff that some of us probably find a bit embarassing now. The reason is kinda simple - we were nineteen and at that age the world tends to look a lot more black and white than it does when you're older. But I'm not sure we were anymore embarassing than the Young Conservatives were in their politics, for example. That's why I think it's important for a CU to have good relationships with the leaders of local churches who have seen a bit more of the world and can tone down some of the excesses of youthful certainty. From memory, our members mostly attended the local (open evo) CofE, and a couple of free charismatic churches. We also had a few charismatic Catholic members.
(Incidentally, when the SU sanctioned a student society for its sexist/homophobic policies, everyone assumed they meant the CU. They didn't - it was the Islamic Society.)
Glad you had such a good time - what uni did you go to? And the churches that members attend makes such a big difference to the overall flavour. IME more charismatic CUs tend to be more open. The CU at my uni is very influenced by a very strict conservative evangelical Calvinist place - like a strict Baptist church but independent.
Also, there can definitely be issues with the Islamic Society - I'm trying to set up a chaplaincy group for LGBTQ students from faith groups and I anticipate trouble from the Islamic Society as much as the CU.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
From my own (Oxford) experience, I would say that there is a tendency for the postgrads to be more liberal in their religion than the undergrads (especially in Oxford where the two main undergrad churches - St Aldates and St Ebbes - are so far down the candle that they induce whatever the opposite of the AC's nosebleed is).
Having said that, as a post-grad, who didn't read the Guardian I generally found more in common with the undergrads anyway, despite the fact that I was by that stage 26 and had been in the armed forces since my undergrad days.
Having said that, I do know that Pusey House is particularly long on postgrads at the moment...
I found the atmosphere at Oxford generally much more religion friendly, and always put this down to the fact that it is so fragmented around the various chapels and chaplaincies, vs my earlier campus university where the CU had the upper hand. There it was very much evangelical Christianity or find your own church elsewhere in the city. UCCF just didn't reflect (when I was an undergraduate) my sacramental understanding, or theology - I also had an instinct to keep away from self selecting groups like that on the same basis that as a non-smoker I didn't specify a non-smoking hall; feeling it slightly ridiculous to artificially limit my potential social circle on the basis of whether or not they smoked, or had an approach to Christianity which in any case wasn't mine!
The inflence of the CU at the Oxford Univesity level is so diluted as to be negligible, which to be quite honest I always saw as a definite plus.
In Oxford it was totally normal to go to church on a Sunday - and to know many young people that did, without having/needing the umbrella support of the CU. Now there's a tangent alert - Oxford as more religious than other universities? No idea why that should be but my own experience would suggest it may be true...
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
I dont know much about Oxford and its CU (maybe that should be its JCR CUs or its OUSU' s CU or its UCCFOUCU), I find the leadership of my local FTWALOS very open and liberal.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
From my own (Oxford) experience, I would say that there is a tendency for the postgrads to be more liberal in their religion than the undergrads (especially in Oxford where the two main undergrad churches - St Aldates and St Ebbes - are so far down the candle that they induce whatever the opposite of the AC's nosebleed is).
Having said that, as a post-grad, who didn't read the Guardian I generally found more in common with the undergrads anyway, despite the fact that I was by that stage 26 and had been in the armed forces since my undergrad days.
Having said that, I do know that Pusey House is particularly long on postgrads at the moment...
I found the atmosphere at Oxford generally much more religion friendly, and always put this down to the fact that it is so fragmented around the various chapels and chaplaincies, vs my earlier campus university where the CU had the upper hand. There it was very much evangelical Christianity or find your own church elsewhere in the city. UCCF just didn't reflect (when I was an undergraduate) my sacramental understanding, or theology - I also had an instinct to keep away from self selecting groups like that on the same basis that as a non-smoker I didn't specify a non-smoking hall; feeling it slightly ridiculous to artificially limit my potential social circle on the basis of whether or not they smoked, or had an approach to Christianity which in any case wasn't mine!
The inflence of the CU at the Oxford Univesity level is so diluted as to be negligible, which to be quite honest I always saw as a definite plus.
In Oxford it was totally normal to go to church on a Sunday - and to know many young people that did, without having/needing the umbrella support of the CU. Now there's a tangent alert - Oxford as more religious than other universities? No idea why that should be but my own experience would suggest it may be true...
I certainly think some universities are more religious than others - Oxford having such a strong chapel tradition and also having theological training colleges probably has an influence. I know historically Cambridge has been much more Nonconformist - don't know if that's still the case.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Well, of course. The Whore of Babylon is Fisher House.
Must have moved then. In my day you could find her just round the corner in the back bar of the Red Cow...
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Having just read this thread, there's so many things to catch up on. I hope people don't mind if I make general comments based on what's been posted without actually quoting people.
I'm one of those people who in my late teens served on the ECU executive committee at my university. I also ran small Bible study groups (both in the year before serving on Exec, and for a couple of years afterwards as a postgrad). Yes, we were immature and didn't get everything right; but we were also supported (not directed) by two great UCCF staff workers and an advisory committee (two members of uni staff, two local pastors) who stopped us doing anything two outrageously silly.
Our ECU was clearly titled the "Evangelical Christian Union" and used that wording on all literature (term cards outlining meetings, membership cards, the big banner on the stall at Freshers Fair etc). We made no bones about being a society representing evangelical Christianity, but got on very well with other Christian groups on campus and not-explicitely evangelical churches. I know that other ECUs were not as good at that aspect - but, sometimes they were faced with quite open hostility from the other groups too.
Our small group study material, and the topics covered in main meetings, were not vetted by our UCCF staff workers. Unless there was a problem, I don't think they were even aware of what that material was. As a budding small group leader, I went on a training course organised by the staff workers - where we were given guidance on how to prepare our own study material. I don't think any two groups in the ECU were even studying the same thing at any one time either, I certainly never discussed what we would be studying with anyone other than the other guy leading our group, not even the small group coordinator on Exec.
In regard to women speaking at main meetings and/or other leadership roles we had a fine line to walk. Quite a large proportion of ECU members came from backgrounds where women in leadership was a definite no-no. Also, a large proportion of our membership not only had no problem with women in leadership but actively wanted more women in leadership. We consistently ended up in the position where we caused least offense - and that meant that we had very few women speakers. We had quite a lot of women leading small study groups, and holding all roles in Exec with the exception of President (we did have a vice President who was usually a woman).
All ECU members were encouraged to attend a local church, and to be as fully involved there as possible. We did issue a list of churches in the literature ECU sent to new students. It was not a list of recommended churches, much less a "if you go somewhere else you'll be led into heresy and damnation", but simply a list of churches that CU members went to with a very brief description and (usually) a name of a CU member who went there who was willing to take new students along. We had a Christian Magazine that for Freshers Fair produced a similar list, including those churches from other traditions. I was editor of that magazine for several years and apart from those churches where the URC, Meth, Baptist chaplaincy groups were based it was damned hard to get anyone to add to write something about their church - often we couldn't even get any of the non-evangelical CofE in with anything more than a church name and location (I wasn't going to get the bus around town to visit all of them to get service times from their notice boards!).
The Doctrinal Basis was something that everyone leading the ECU had to signify their agreement to (Exec, study group leaders, speakers). Membership only required a signature on a one line statement of belief, and the only thing that members 'got' that others didn't was a chance to vote on new Exec members once a year (and, most of the time, there was only ever one candidate for each post anyway since the membership was so small, and that person was usually the one someone in the outgoing Exec had pushed into standing because no one in their right mind actually volunteers to be an ECU Secretary or Treasurer! I'm a mad scientist, so I did both those jobs!).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Well, of course. The Whore of Babylon is Fisher House.
Must have moved then. In my day you could find her just round the corner in the back bar of the Red Cow...
Yeah, I went out with her a few times. Lovely.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Now there's a tangent alert - Oxford as more religious than other universities? No idea why that should be but my own experience would suggest it may be true...
Class? (see the other thread). Oxford has a high proportion of students from the public schools who will have been exposed to regular religion in their school chapels. Of course that will have inoculated many against it, but on balance it probably means that churchgoing is a more natural part of life for more people, unlike those from comprehensive schools and working or lower-middle class backgrounds who predominantly end up in other universities.
I know many public-school students go elsewhere, but only Oxbridge (and to an extent Durham) replicate the 'school chapel' ethos.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
Probably something in that - I drifted away even from school chapel after the age of 15 or so and only got back into it (and indeed was confirmed) at the age of 21-22 when I was made to go to chapel again every week at Dartmouth. By the time I got to Oxford it was second nature.
Back on thread, I suppose UCCF and others are filling a gap, it's just quite often a gap that will only suit if what you want is bright and breezy evangelicalism (I generalise massively) IYSWIM. I would posit that it probably puts off as many as it attracts. If/where it's the only show in town (ie on smaller, isolated university campuses) that's potentially a sizeable problem. In the larger towns and cities much the less so.
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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S. Bacchus
Shipmate
# 17778
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Posted
For what it's worth, I know of at least one CU that promoted and Aff. Cath. church with a female incumbent (alongside so much more markedly evangelical places), so they're not all narrow-mined about churchmanship.
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'It's not that simple. I won't have it to be that simple'.
Posts: 260 | Registered: Jul 2013
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scuffleball
Shipmate
# 16480
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:
quote:
Originally posted by scuffleball:
Tangent - is liberal religion more common in post-grads and extremism in undergrads then?
Probably. Or, at least there's more likely to be less diversity among the postgrads. Postgrads and academics are, by and large, the sort of people who, if they go to church, are likely to URC or liberal Anglican. They are similarly likely be members of the Labour, Liberal Democratic, or Green parties. Whereas a certain sort of undergraduate is bound to go off to a future in the City, the Conservative Party, and (if churchgoing) and one of the two Brompton flagships (according to taste).
That's obviously a grotesque caricature: not all postgrads are wet liberals, and certainly not all undergrads are raging conservatives; not all liberal Anglicans are politically leftish (David Cameron isn't, for instance) and not all Evangelicals or traditionalist Roman Catholics are politically conservative. But there are social groups at least some universities that match what I've described: Conservative Association, Christ Church Hunt (or Trinity Foot Beagles), and the Oxford Oratory (or the Tridentine Mass at Fisher House) on one hand; College chapel, feminist discussion group, and Labour society on the other. There's enough truth in the stereotype I'm making that anyone familiar with University life will recognize it. Of the two groups, the more liberal/left-leaning one is more likely to contain postgrads and academic staff.
Not all of the Labour party are wet liberals either! (Arguably the Labour party has less of a tendency for "glib phrases" and a greater value for testimony and practical results than the Lib Dems/Greens?) We had our fair share of leftist evangelicals too; I'd hardly call many of them "liberals" though, and I doubt they'd call themselves that either.
And as for liberal anglicans not being leftist, remnants of ken's Anglicanism-as-a-sort-of-Shinto persist in the independent schools and percolate into college chapels. It's dying but by no means dead yet.
Not all beaglers are conservative either; of our Masters of the Hunt in my time, one was a wet-tory-prayer-book-anglican-who-voted-labour - although he lurks on this chatroom, so I imagine he'll have more to say on the political gamut of beagling if he's reading this - one was one was a fairly by-the-book middle-class-liberal; the tho In my experience the beaglers I knew tended to be as tongue-in-cheek about our Conservatives as the man on the street.
Come to think of it, our college chapel had an oddly large number of beaglers, considering we're not a traditionally beagling college.
quote:
Anyway the reason my CU rocked was simple - the people genuinely loved and cared for each other.
Ours did too, especially in the grassroots. That doesn't mean it didn't have an insidious power structure. If I give the impression to the contrary, I certainly don't mean to.
quote:
I found the atmosphere at Oxford generally much more religion friendly, and always put this down to the fact that it is so fragmented around the various chapels and chaplaincies
And so the Christian faith is presented as disunited - no meaningful ecumenism. Also the black spot I mentioned earlier - liberal nonconformism.
quote:
The inflence of the CU at the Oxford Univesity level is so diluted as to be negligible, which to be quite honest I always saw as a definite plus.
That's rather college-dependant - at Wadham, RPC and SPC it's the main Christian organization. At Catz it may well be the only one. By contrast at Keble, Hertford and Trinity the college was very prominent in the Christian community.
quote:
I also had an instinct to keep away from self selecting groups like that on the same basis that as a non-smoker I didn't specify a non-smoking hall
Surely any religious group there is self-selecting?
quote:
Oxford has a high proportion of students from the public schools who will have been exposed to regular religion in their school chapels. Of course that will have inoculated many against it, but on balance it probably means that churchgoing is a more natural part of life for more people, unlike those from comprehensive schools and working or lower-middle class backgrounds who predominantly end up in other universities.
I have yet to meet anyone with anything good to say about (Anglican) public school chapel; most people whose religion endured it seem to look back on it negatively. It also seems to have resulted in a lot of people being confirmed who didn't believe anything, just because it was something you had to do going to that school.
Chapel, or whatever it is called there, and other Religious Instruction at Ampleforth seem to be more fondly remembered, for some reason.
quote:
Help ma Boab, I'm lost. Is this supposed to be Christianity? There's no hope. SUs chucking off CUs and vice versa, women can't speak petty infighting amongst groups. Get rid of them all. Christ's Body is the Church, not some poncy little organisation run by a bunch of spotty nineteen year olds. But I dont know my acronyms from my italicisms
, maybe best that I get down to my local gospel hall, I'm clearly not clever enough to be amongst the Bright Young Things of SOF, CU, CM, UCCF or FTWALOS.
Hmm, this is an awkward one - what is Christianity anyhow? Istm that in UCCF the answer is "The doctrinal basis, and unless you hold to it, you are not with us," And herein lies the problem - how do you dwell with those who refuse to dwell with you? How do you do "Ubi Caritas et Amor" when the love is refused? How do you break bread with those who do not wish to eat at the same table any way and would not dare to invite you to theirs without the express purpose of telling you to think like them? The problem with the UCCF is that there doctrine has trumped care; indeed the chief form of love seems to be doctrine in everything; doctrine in welcoming international students in a strange new land for the first time, doctrine in helping drunk people home from nightclubs...
You see, the ethos of contemporary liberalism is "you cannot get something for nothing" and "nobody is truly altruistic; nobody gives without expecting in return; love exists but on paper." And it is surely the business of the church to challenge that ethos, not to reinforce it.
quote:
As for NUS:
1) They are a political joke, and are no more representative of students as a whole than are the Christians.
2) SUs have a long and dishonourable history of using all means available to them to chuck CUs off campus. Whether they succeed seems to depend mostly on how long a leash the SU is given by the university hierarchy.
1. Maybe; but then I cannot possibly speak for FE students, or students of ex-polies, who may tend to hold those views more greatly than we do. But OUSU was largely un-representative, yep; typically those who didn't make the OULC cut. OUSU Charities and Community reps have been decent sorts though; a lot of them come up through London Citizens, the Jellicoe Community even.
As for WomCam, I knew a fair few of their organizers, and they were decidedly agreeable and welcoming if a bit doctrinaire and switched off if you said anything that challenged their paradigm - a bit like the CU types, I guess. They seem to have toned down a little over the past couple of years, to the joy of some and the chagrin of others. They published a decidedly incomprehensible zine with angsty poetry and other things,
2. There is a decided limit to what the OUSU can do as the only property they control is their own offices. Most meetings happen in individual colleges. The most powerful they could do is place them under advertizing ban, which means no mention in OUSU publications (freshers' guide, website society directory, alternative prospectus etc) and no Freshers' Fair stand. They will never do this, though.
The worst sort of "banning" in Oxford is the University witholding the right to use their name - the Oxford University Conservative Association has had to rename itself the "Oxford Conservative Association" on and off in my memory. Again, the University will never do this short of financial irregularity or debauchery and licentiousness, although they do insist on having a "senior member" on the committee.
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SPK: I also plan to create ... a Calvinist Ordinariate
ken: I thought it was called Taize?
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I think scuffleball has highlighted something important about UCCF - what about when other groups want to do things with them, but UCCF refuse? I'm not even talking about interfaith stuff (although I really think UCCF should do more interfaith stuff) or social action, but just working with other Christian groups on campus and the chaplaincy. When CUs refuse to work with perfectly sound and mainstream chaplaincies....what can the rest of us do?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
Scuffleball, absolutely take your point about self-selection, I suppose what I meant was the tendency of CUs at certain universities, eg my first one,to take over your life. I didn't want that, so I steered clear.
I think the influence or otherwise of the CU does Depend heavily on college, with wider groupings like the chaplaincy/oratory/Pusey House waxing and waning over time. This does look divided, but given the attendees are exercising choice, and all seem to be more or less sanctioned versions of Christianity, I'm not sure what the answer is.
Just on the beagling tangent, I've spent a happy half hour trying to work out who you have in mind with your examples..... Anyway, no names no pack drill.
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I think scuffleball has highlighted something important about UCCF - what about when other groups want to do things with them, but UCCF refuse? I'm not even talking about interfaith stuff (although I really think UCCF should do more interfaith stuff) or social action, but just working with other Christian groups on campus and the chaplaincy. When CUs refuse to work with perfectly sound and mainstream chaplaincies....what can the rest of us do?
Protecting the integrity of doctrine of the mission. TBH I've got a little more sympathy for this as I've watched the trainwrecks that some of my friends' faiths have become post-uni ... but only a little. There's also the institutional memory of what happened to the SCM, which drifted a very long way from its starting point. Another thing is that CUs can actually work with other groups if they like; whether they do or not seems to be a combination of the temperament of the staff worker, the temperament of the exec and the length of the leash between them.
You might find this history of CICCU interesting: a surprising amount of influence is ascribed to Basil Atkinson, who studied or worked at the university for around 50 years and became a trusted adviser to the CU within that time. He had some pretty unecumenical views apparently, and was able to push the CU quite a long way in that direction during his time.
[ 19. August 2013, 21:59: Message edited by: Dinghy Sailor ]
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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scuffleball
Shipmate
# 16480
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
Protecting the integrity of doctrine of the mission. TBH I've got a little more sympathy for this as I've watched the trainwrecks that some of my friends' faiths have become post-uni ... but only a little. There's also the institutional memory of what happened to the SCM, which drifted a very long way from its starting point.
I'm not sure which point of view you are expressing sympathy for here?
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Just on the beagling tangent, I've spent a happy half hour trying to work out who you have in mind with your examples..... Anyway, no names no pack drill.
Which means I've probably rather misinterpreted the political views of the people in question then! What era were you around, mind? Unless... you're... wait... and now I'm trying to guess who /you/ are now too, but I think the "behind the dreaming spires" just about clinches it?
Here's a hint - neither were born in the UK, and thus you can probably already work out the college. But really I don't want to break a rule by outing someone on the ship in real life without their consent.
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SPK: I also plan to create ... a Calvinist Ordinariate
ken: I thought it was called Taize?
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I think scuffleball has highlighted something important about UCCF - what about when other groups want to do things with them, but UCCF refuse? I'm not even talking about interfaith stuff (although I really think UCCF should do more interfaith stuff) or social action, but just working with other Christian groups on campus and the chaplaincy. When CUs refuse to work with perfectly sound and mainstream chaplaincies....what can the rest of us do?
Protecting the integrity of doctrine of the mission. TBH I've got a little more sympathy for this as I've watched the trainwrecks that some of my friends' faiths have become post-uni ... but only a little. There's also the institutional memory of what happened to the SCM, which drifted a very long way from its starting point. Another thing is that CUs can actually work with other groups if they like; whether they do or not seems to be a combination of the temperament of the staff worker, the temperament of the exec and the length of the leash between them.
You might find this history of CICCU interesting: a surprising amount of influence is ascribed to Basil Atkinson, who studied or worked at the university for around 50 years and became a trusted adviser to the CU within that time. He had some pretty unecumenical views apparently, and was able to push the CU quite a long way in that direction during his time.
But then, working with other groups/the chaplaincy would benefit a lot of CUs in terms of mission. So what's the point in 'integrity of doctrine' if you're going to die off anyway? The CU at my uni is, as has been said, very conservative evangelical and cessationist. The obsession with doctrinal purity has resulted in a very unwelcoming atmosphere and as a result, the group haemorrhages members. It can't be the only one like this, although it's probably rarer than love-bombing charismatic CUs. In cases like the one at my uni, how could non-cooperation with other groups possibly benefit the CU?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by scuffleball:
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
Protecting the integrity of doctrine of the mission. TBH I've got a little more sympathy for this as I've watched the trainwrecks that some of my friends' faiths have become post-uni ... but only a little. There's also the institutional memory of what happened to the SCM, which drifted a very long way from its starting point.
I'm not sure which point of view you are expressing sympathy for here?
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Just on the beagling tangent, I've spent a happy half hour trying to work out who you have in mind with your examples..... Anyway, no names no pack drill.
But really I don't want to break a rule by outing someone on the ship in real life without their consent.
Don't worry, completely agree, wasn't asking you to!
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And is it true? For if it is....
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A.Pilgrim
Shipmate
# 15044
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Posted
One piece of jargon that hasn't been explained yet is JCR. It stands for Junior Common Room, and in a collegiate university such as Oxford or Cambridge, is the location for (and by extension of meaning, the organisation that arranges) general social activites (rather than specific-interest activities) for the undergraduate members of a college.
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
... SOF, CU, CM, UCCF or FTWALOS.
I can think of a number of phrases that could be expanded from the last initialism, but not one that fits in context. Any chance of an explanation?
Angus
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
No idea what FTWALOS means but at the risk of being mildly pedantic, at Cambridge it's Junior Combination Room rather than Common Room. But it's essentially the same thing.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
No idea what FTWALOS means but at the risk of being mildly pedantic, at Cambridge it's Junior Combination Room rather than Common Room. But it's essentially the same thing.
Thanks Albertus, I'll file that away in Absolutely Useless Knowledge (AUK).
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
No idea what FTWALOS means but at the risk of being mildly pedantic, at Cambridge it's Junior Combination Room rather than Common Room. But it's essentially the same thing.
Thanks Albertus, I'll file that away in Absolutely Useless Knowledge (AUK).
AUK is Audax UK, the long distance cyclists' association ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
No idea what FTWALOS means but at the risk of being mildly pedantic, at Cambridge it's Junior Combination Room rather than Common Room. But it's essentially the same thing.
Thanks Albertus, I'll file that away in Absolutely Useless Knowledge (AUK).
My pleasure. You can also add that Cambridge has courts rather than quads and supervisions rather than (academic) tutorials.
I'm guessing, by the way, that WALOS means With A Lot of Students. But FT? Fundamentalist Tabernacle? Frilly Tatshop, moving up the candle there?
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
No idea what FTWALOS means but at the risk of being mildly pedantic, at Cambridge it's Junior Combination Room rather than Common Room. But it's essentially the same thing.
Thanks Albertus, I'll file that away in Absolutely Useless Knowledge (AUK).
My pleasure. You can also add that Cambridge has courts rather than quads and supervisions rather than (academic) tutorials.
I'm guessing, by the way, that WALOS means With A Lot of Students. But FT? Fundamentalist Tabernacle? Frilly Tatshop, moving up the candle there?
FTWALOS? It can mean what you want it to mean. I was using it as Further Tutoring Wanted As Lots Obviously Supposed.
On the other hand, some might use it to mean: F##k This, What A Load of S###e.
Acronyms, sorry italicisms, are so very flexible. They can mean whatever the user/reader wants them to mean. They just don't enlighten very much, except those in the know. Which is why, I suspect, that our Bright Young Things on here just love to use them.
IWAASM
[ 20. August 2013, 17:24: Message edited by: would love to belong ]
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
No idea what FTWALOS means but at the risk of being mildly pedantic, at Cambridge it's Junior Combination Room rather than Common Room. But it's essentially the same thing.
Thanks Albertus, I'll file that away in Absolutely Useless Knowledge (AUK).
My pleasure. You can also add that Cambridge has courts rather than quads and supervisions rather than (academic) tutorials.
I'm guessing, by the way, that WALOS means With A Lot of Students. But FT? Fundamentalist Tabernacle? Frilly Tatshop, moving up the candle there?
FTWALOS? It can mean what you want it to mean. I was using it as Further Tutoring Wanted As Lots Obviously Supposed.
On the other hand, some might use it to mean: F##k This, What A Load of S###e.
Acronyms, sorry italicisms, are so very flexible. They can mean whatever the user/reader wants them to mean. They just don't enlighten very much, except those in the know. Which is why, I suspect, that our Bright Young Things on here just love to use them.
IWAASM
No, initialisms (not italicisms - that would surely mean writing in italics?) are just used to abbreviate long names - like the Student Christian Movement, the University & Colleges Christian Federation, Ship of Fools etc. There are people on here of your age who use them and other initialisms so I'm not sure why you think it's just me and other younger board members trying to impose the use of abbreviations on everyone? Most of the board members on here are aged 40 or over, I would guess. I mean, do you never talk about the BBC or the RSPCA? They're initialisms.
Anyway, this is off-topic. If there's an abbreviation you're not sure about, ask the person who used it - I didn't know the Oxford terms after all. It's not people trying to exclude you, people are just using the terms they're used to.
[ 20. August 2013, 23:08: Message edited by: Jade Constable ]
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Cedd007
Shipmate
# 16180
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Posted
Fascinating. Thanks for catching me up with the last half century. This morning, and before reading this thread this evening, I decided I really ought to be praying for the IFES (the international body of UCCF's as it were). Having read the anecdotal evidence above, I shall now add UCCF to my prayer list as well.
In my own experience OICCU was a vital staging post on the Christian journey. I arrived at college, newly converted in a tin tabernacle, with a conviction that the Bible was completely literal, that churches had utterly failed to spread the Good News, and that there were only 4 Christians in Italy, etc. etc. Providentially the OICCU representative (and only member at the time in my college) had a room adjacent to mine, and my first experience of Church, after the tin tabernacle, was fellowship with him and others over Bible Study, for which there was no party line - and indeed no question to answer except 'what does this passage from Mark mean to you?' It was much later that the college Chaplain, a High Church liberal, managed to to convince me he didn't have horns, and coaxed me along to the college chapel.
I have, hopefully, mellowed since then. Except over the issue of Evangelism: I still believe that churches have failed to spread the Good News. I'm pleasantly surprised that my own Church of England diocese has suddenly decided that Evangelism is a good thing, though I fear this discovery may be 50 years too late - in preserving the Church of England.
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
No idea what FTWALOS means but at the risk of being mildly pedantic, at Cambridge it's Junior Combination Room rather than Common Room. But it's essentially the same thing.
Thanks Albertus, I'll file that away in Absolutely Useless Knowledge (AUK).
My pleasure. You can also add that Cambridge has courts rather than quads and supervisions rather than (academic) tutorials.
I'm guessing, by the way, that WALOS means With A Lot of Students. But FT? Fundamentalist Tabernacle? Frilly Tatshop, moving up the candle there?
FTWALOS? It can mean what you want it to mean. I was using it as Further Tutoring Wanted As Lots Obviously Supposed.
On the other hand, some might use it to mean: F##k This, What A Load of S###e.
Acronyms, sorry italicisms, are so very flexible. They can mean whatever the user/reader wants them to mean. They just don't enlighten very much, except those in the know. Which is why, I suspect, that our Bright Young Things on here just love to use them.
IWAASM
No, initialisms (not italicisms - that would surely mean writing in italics?) are just used to abbreviate long names - like the Student Christian Movement, the University & Colleges Christian Federation, Ship of Fools etc. There are people on here of your age who use them and other initialisms so I'm not sure why you think it's just me and other younger board members trying to impose the use of abbreviations on everyone? Most of the board members on here are aged 40 or over, I would guess. I mean, do you never talk about the BBC or the RSPCA? They're initialisms.
Anyway, this is off-topic. If there's an abbreviation you're not sure about, ask the person who used it - I didn't know the Oxford terms after all. It's not people trying to exclude you, people are just using the terms they're used to.
quote:
Jade, you better explain that BBC one to me.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
The BBC as in the British Broadcasting Corporation? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Bloody Boring Content?
Or, is that just The Archers? (ducks for cover)
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Of course it's not. It's You and Yours and Quote Unquote as well.
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
University & Colleges Christian Federation
*Fellowship
You know, like FellowShip of Fools ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
University & Colleges Christian Federation
*Fellowship
You know, like FellowShip of Fools
Duly noted! I knew it was University & Colleges Christian something and just guessed the F ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) Speaking of fellowship though, how emphasised is this in other people's experiences of CUs? In the CU at my uni, they don't even have socials for freshers, there are no social or fellowship activities at all. How normal is this?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dinghy Sailor:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
University & Colleges Christian Federation
*Fellowship
You know, like FellowShip of Fools
Duly noted! I knew it was University & Colleges Christian something and just guessed the F Speaking of fellowship though, how emphasised is this in other people's experiences of CUs? In the CU at my uni, they don't even have socials for freshers, there are no social or fellowship activities at all. How normal is this?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Speaking of fellowship though, how emphasised is this in other people's experiences of CUs? In the CU at my uni, they don't even have socials for freshers, there are no social or fellowship activities at all. How normal is this?
Fellowship is usually emphasised in terms of coming together to worship and study God and Christ. Rather than just "social activities".
At my uni, there weren't many social events organised centrally. The Hall Groups always had some social events organised for their hall at the start of the year; usually an "open room" where one of the leaders used their room and there was tea, coffee, juice, cake etc and people mingled and chatted as they wanted. Halls, and often Union buildings, rarely have spaces suitable for people to have a social that isn't a bar. Other rooms are usually either too big (though good for main meetings, with speakers and worship band etc) or hidden away in a back corridor where poor Freshers are never going to find them.
Of course, main meetings were followed by those wanting to hang around having a talk and chat, and in the first few weeks at least it wouldn't be unusual for someone to bring allow some biscuits or cake. And, people pretty soon found out who was likely to go to the Hall bar or local pub for an orange juice and joined in. May CU members ended up sharing houses, with associated fellowship. And, there was always the house party.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Speaking of fellowship though, how emphasised is this in other people's experiences of CUs? In the CU at my uni, they don't even have socials for freshers, there are no social or fellowship activities at all. How normal is this?
Fellowship is usually emphasised in terms of coming together to worship and study God and Christ. Rather than just "social activities".
At my uni, there weren't many social events organised centrally. The Hall Groups always had some social events organised for their hall at the start of the year; usually an "open room" where one of the leaders used their room and there was tea, coffee, juice, cake etc and people mingled and chatted as they wanted. Halls, and often Union buildings, rarely have spaces suitable for people to have a social that isn't a bar. Other rooms are usually either too big (though good for main meetings, with speakers and worship band etc) or hidden away in a back corridor where poor Freshers are never going to find them.
Of course, main meetings were followed by those wanting to hang around having a talk and chat, and in the first few weeks at least it wouldn't be unusual for someone to bring allow some biscuits or cake. And, people pretty soon found out who was likely to go to the Hall bar or local pub for an orange juice and joined in. May CU members ended up sharing houses, with associated fellowship. And, there was always the house party.
But...how are people going to be encouraged to join the CU, or feel welcome? And at my uni, the CU doesn't have Hall groups.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Well, we never encouraged anyone to join the ECU. Just come along to as many, or as few, meetings as they wanted. We wanted people to be committed to Christ, and live out that committment in their lives as students. Many found ECU membership to be something that allowed them to express that commitment in more concrete terms, others didn't feel that step to be necessary, many found a commitment to a local church to be of benefit too. Some even came regularly to ECU meetings while making their commitment to Christ through membership of one of the chaplaincy groups (who depended on formal members to secure funds from the Students Union and access to SU facilities - the ECU never sought SU funds and used non-SU facilities most of the time).
Feeling welcome was almost always through individuals and small groups, and over an extended period of time. It has to be, doesn't it? Having a social event to welcome people doesn't really cut it. It just provides space for people to get lost in the corners, and for older students to think "we've had the party welcoming people, we don't need to do any more" (though most wouldn't). Welcome has to be part of every event, throughout the year, and that has to be mainly through individuals getting to know new people and helping them get to know others.
Besides, the theory was that we'd have a constant stream of new people as our witness on the campus drew people to Christ (and, not by poaching from the Chaplaincies). It never quite happened that way, but you couldn't put all your welcome eggs in the first meeting of the year basket.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I see your point about the small groups, and think that is probably where the CU at my uni goes wrong. There are no small groups to build relationships with people, it's just an hour of being talked at. I attended meetings when I first started uni and if my two friends from the chaplaincy weren't there (one was a postgrad student and one is on the CoE Youth Council so was often away on church business), nobody would speak to me. Literally nobody, right from the start. I've never been in such a cold, spiritually-dead (and I'm no charismatic and don't usually think in those terms) environment in my Christian life.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Leprechaun
Ship's Poison Elf
# 5408
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I see your point about the small groups, and think that is probably where the CU at my uni goes wrong. There are no small groups to build relationships with people, it's just an hour of being talked at. I attended meetings when I first started uni and if my two friends from the chaplaincy weren't there (one was a postgrad student and one is on the CoE Youth Council so was often away on church business), nobody would speak to me. Literally nobody, right from the start. I've never been in such a cold, spiritually-dead (and I'm no charismatic and don't usually think in those terms) environment in my Christian life.
Jade that is really sad, and totally indefensible behaviour from any group of Christians. I am really sorry.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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He hath loved us, He hath loved us, because he would love
Posts: 3097 | From: England - far from home... | Registered: Jan 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I entirely agree with Lep. The life blood, IMO, of a CU is the small groups. Especially in the first year. That's where the friendships that provide the fellowship and support from peers comes from. CU members do also need fellowship & support from others, which is where local churches play an essential role - providing they are churches for all, and don't end up with services that only cater for students (and, maybe a few recent graduates). The main meetings form a part of the whole CU thing; but despite the name they shouldn't be the primary activity of the CU ... if there needs be a choice between small groups and main meetings, I'd drop the main meeting in a flash (not, I hope, that such a decision ever needs to be made). The absence of small groups is a situation that the CU leadership, with support from UCCF staff workers and others, should be addressing urgently.
Being ignored in a main meeting is even worse. But, without the small group network it becomes all to easy to happen. You'll find the same in churches; people don't meet up during the week, so Sunday becomes a time to catch up with people they know and it's easy (especially in a larger church) for people to be missed out. Have that small group network in place and then, IMO, the chances of someone not feeling the need to spend a long time with people they saw a day or two earlier and keeping an eye open on anyone being left out are better. No guarantees, of course.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
There are Bible studies weekly, but they come with set answers so not really real studies? And they get dropped every couple of weeks so the CU can do mission stuff like Text A Treat. Basically all the content of CU meetings and everything else they do revolves around mission events with no building up of the CU members.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
It may reflect size of CU (though, for a while ours was smaller with ~30 people), possibly how much time students have available, but that's very different from my experience.
Hall groups were Bible Study groups, but the format was 10 mins or so chat before settling into maybe an hour discussing the text (chosen by the group leaders, who prepared some background notes to help get discussion moving if needed), a time of prayer (maybe sing a song or two, depending on the abilities of the group to sing unaccompanied or if someone could pluck a few chords on a guitar). Then, the kettle would go on, the biscuits come out (toast seemed to work well too) and people would talk abuot whatever until the leader who was giving up their room would say "sorry, I've a lecture at 9.30 and would like more than 2h sleep first". Prepared questions might make things easier for busy students, preparing a Bible study takes longer than actually leading it (a bit like preparing a sermon really). A set of "correct answers" seems antithical to a discussion group though, very strange - it's somethign I wouldn't expect to work fro pre-teen Sunday School let alone intelligent university students learning to question everything (and, usually, in the questioning building a far firmer knowledge than merely being told facts).
Main meetings were mostly aimed at teaching, supporting existing members, worship. Yes, a couple of times a term they'd be specifically aimed at being more accessible to non-Christians (they were termed "evangelistic") and people encouraged to invite friends to those evenings specifically. We also organised door-to-door evangelism and street preaching on the steps of the Student Union. And, of course, the big mission week every couple of years. The aims of the ECU were very much 1) to enable spiritual growth of Christian students, 2) to support individual students to witness to their faith and 3) be a corporate witness to Christ on the campus. If a CU only aims at 3) then it's going to collapse - it needs the tripod of all three to be healthy.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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