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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Modernising Sunday School
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
It is also true that children are aspirational. My daughter spent probably three hours this weekend over two days watching a friend writing* icons. This is the same five year old who finds an hour or an hour and half service boring. It was only slightly more dramatic than watching paint dry, but she only consented to come home after an hour and half watching because she got pretty hungry. Why the difference? L, the icon painter, and incidentally the pastor of the church I mentioned above explained to her what he was doing. I asked her that night what was so interesting about it? She said "thinking about God."
Now I don't think it was just that at all. I suspect she was rather interested in technique, in watching an expert work while allowed to ask questions, and probably many other things. All the same, icon writing in the most traditional Orthodox style is anything but dramatic.
Now if L could just write icons while he preached my problems would be sorted...
*Read painting, but painting is apparently the word to use when it's an icon one is painting.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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jugular
Voice of Treason
# 4174
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Posted
I've pretty much drunk the KoolAid on Godly Play. I've been working with children and youth for fifteen years, and I feel like I didn't know anything until I trained in GP.
My parish uses it:
a) in place of the Ministry of the Word for school-aged children, who then join the rest of the church for Holy Communion
b)In place of the sermon one Sunday a month, including whole-church 'wondering'
c) As a method for adults and children to do spiritual work together
d) as a devotional at church meetings
The beauty of Godly Play as a method is that it has the perfect balance between structure and flexibility. The stories and materials are engaging, but there is space to bring one's own issues and insights (even very small children), and space to do 'the work that is right for you', based on a wide range of choices.
You need to spend money on training, books and story materials. We've been at it for two years now, and its cost less than the parish hall cleaning for the same period. Money well spent.
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We’ve got to act like a church that hasn’t already internalized the narrative of its own decline Ray Suarez
Posts: 2599 | From: Australia | Registered: Feb 2003
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jugular:
I've pretty much drunk the KoolAid on Godly Play. I've been working with children and youth for fifteen years, and I feel like I didn't know anything until I trained in GP.
Unabashed enthusiasm really makes me grin. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) (In a good way; this is completely not sarcastic!)
I've only done Godly Play a handful of times, some as a children's worker and some as a congregation member in 'adult church'. But my experience has also been strongly positive. I just love how the 'I wonder...' method gives space for everyone to respond but doesn't insist on it.
Oh, in case anyone's wondering what on Earth this Godly Play thing is, here's a link. 'Godly Play', it turns out, is the name of a charity in the UK. I wasn't sure if it was a concept, a trademark or whatever...
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Hymn sandwiches barely work on adults, let alone children. Hymn-Eucharist club sandwiches work with certain groups with strong cultural ties to their churches (ie Catholics and Orthodox) but not much good for everyone else (but possibly barely barely better than hymn sandwiches due to shorter sermons). What, then, DOES work? I struggle to believe that the charismatic pop concert with half-time vacous pep-talk works in the long term.
The problem is that we so often think these are the only options. They're not.
Oh, I realise that. I am absolutely not the best person to figure out what better options now - my natural preferences and those of children don't usually intersect - but that's why we need to listen to and respect children and what they need.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Imagine the fuss if the church decided to do adult SS every second week (no liturgy), with people expected to learn something! But, just as the kids enjoy stuff they are taken to if they get something out of it, so too for the adults. Might make church something one wants to come to.
In some denominations 'Sunday School' is for adults as well as children. It occurs either before or after the main service, and children are taught in their own classes.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
I know I'm cynical, but I wonder how well Godly Play would do rolled out to all churches? Coming from education and schools and having seen the Literacy Hour done brilliantly well by someone who was piloting it, then appallingly badly by teachers instructed to do it and teaching against their personal inclination and styles, followed by the phonics that's now rolled out, (lather, rinse, repeat ....) I suspect the enthusiasm for Godly Play is because you're seeing it done well by those who have sought it out and bought into it as something that appeals to them and they see as fitting the local situation. I suspect that it won't necessarily be the solution in other places with other people.
Is the need to change Sunday School to do with keeping young people in church? Or finding ways of reaching out and supporting young people to learn about God?
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I know I'm cynical, but I wonder how well Godly Play would do rolled out to all churches? Coming from education and schools and having seen the Literacy Hour done brilliantly well by someone who was piloting it, then appallingly badly by teachers instructed to do it and teaching against their personal inclination and styles, followed by the phonics that's now rolled out, (lather, rinse, repeat ....) I suspect the enthusiasm for Godly Play is because you're seeing it done well by those who have sought it out and bought into it as something that appeals to them and they see as fitting the local situation. I suspect that it won't necessarily be the solution in other places with other people.
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Very true, I am attracted to it as it suits my own learning style, and so I take to it naturally in leading. I can borrow boxes from the local diocesan resource library, I don't go for the whole Godly Play classroom nor do I learn the script slavishly. It is the concept that I engage with.
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Interestingly enough, my wife is keen on GP but I am not - it just doesn't scratch where I'm itching.
Which means one size doesn't fit all - hence we should use a variety of approaches in Sunday School.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Which means one size doesn't fit all - hence we should use a variety of approaches in Sunday School.
In other words children are as varied as the rest of us human beings - radical insight for churches and youth ministries!!
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I did mean 'what better options are' on my comment upthread - didn't see the error until now.
I don't think it's just churches being too boring that puts children off - sometimes the opposite is true. I have seen children being turned off from church in evangelical circles because the youth and children's work is so outgoing and tries to force everyone to join in and be very extroverted, when - like adults - all children are different and some are natural introverts too.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
I did mean 'what better options are' on my comment upthread - didn't see the error until now.
I don't think it's just churches being too boring that puts children off - sometimes the opposite is true. I have seen children being turned off from church in evangelical circles because the youth and children's work is so outgoing and tries to force everyone to join in and be very extroverted, when - like adults - all children are different and some are natural introverts too.
I agree Jade. I've seen some clearly shy kids looking out of sorts in the rough and tumble of evangelical church. One quite large Baptist church which I attended for a while called all the kids forward early on in the service for a talk and some participation (eg action songs, questions) with the person leading the kids ministry (a paid member of staff), all in front of a huge congregation of adults. It struck me (cynical maybe) that the performance was as much for the entertainment of the adults as for the benefit of the kids. I saw a few kids hanging back in their seats beside mum and dad, clearly reluctant to go forward, with mum and dad somewhat sheepishly trying to persuade the wee ones to do what was expected. I wondered if these kids might not relish going to future services. I should say that this activity was immediately before the kids left the church for their own agegroup activities.
[ 21. August 2013, 14:02: Message edited by: would love to belong ]
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
But it can also be easier for introverts to hide in a larger lively church, my 2 introverts have never volunteered to do any public showing in church and nobody bats an eyelid - and we certainly don't pressure them to join in (last year I declined on being asked to do a bible reading as I hate being 'on stage').
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Oh sure, that's not what I mean exactly - I'm talking about the 'enforced fun' thing some livelier churches have.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
There is always a presentation by the children at the end of the service - of what they have been making during their time in the Vestry (usually on the same theme as that in the main body of the church). I think most of the children don't even think of it as Sunday School (the world 'School' could well be a turn-off) but rather time preparing things for their own presentation. Perhaps that's a more positive way of organising it?
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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