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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: drugs.
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Recreational, non prescription.
any parents out there have any advice to share? Like how to bring up the subject when you have no idea how true the information is?
thanks. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The line between recreational and dependence/addiction - very hard to know where it is. I had a long talk with a nephew who is a daily pot smoker over the weekend. I told him that I'd heard this, and then told him what I thought: that he was using to deal with stress and possibly anxiety (the stress bit took a little to get to). He got mad, and I just said I heard it, I don't think it did any good re the using, but the conversation ended okay in the sense that we didn't argue and we could talk again about it. His mum thought this was better than anything so far.
My general tendency is to be direct: "I've heard that you're smoking up a lot". No admitting where I heard it, just stating the fact. Waited for an answer. He started defensive and I didn't respond, restated the fact that I heard this. He asked me if I ever smoked pot and I told him yes, and that let the discussion go on. The actual contents of what we talked about, don't seem as important that we talked.
This nephew is 19, things differ when kids are younger. If the child is before the age of consent, then family doctor with the child may be step one. Addiction services here are awful. They give people questionnaires and tell then to go to a group. Only if you pay for it, do you see actual counselling occur.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Depends on the age of the child/ children, if they've had anything on the issue at school and, most importantly, on what you class as "drugs".
Rather than giving mine "the drugs talk" I raised the subject of addiction - my own to tobacco included.
Since there is a long and distressing history of alcoholism in my family I referred to the theory that there may be an inherited predisposition to addiction in our family. Spoke with them honestly about family members they know who "need" a drink and related that back to our view that alcohol was something best enjoyed as part of a convivial meal and in moderation. Tried hard not to be too prissy: other half and I owned up about youthful alcoholic indiscretions in our past and why we regretted them.
Spoke about cannabis, owned up to having tried (yes, I did inhale!) and what the effects were. Explained about skunk and how it was much more powerful than the weed some of my generation talk about so fondly. Also talked about LSD, crystal meth, cocaine, etc.
Took them through the research (ongoing) that seems to point to cannabis being particularly harmful to young males - particularly that it may trigger lasting psychosis. Also explained about dangers of drinking too much water with people who've taken ecstasy, dirty needles, contaminated cocaine and heroin, etc, etc, etc.
All of this was not covered in a single conversation or within a short time frame. We considered the subject of addiction and drugs to be something that shouldn't either be hidden or just given a blanket "thou shalt not" edict.
We covered the subject of addiction to prescription drugs too.
First conversation about alcohol was when they were about 9, prompted by the drunken antics of a family member visiting from overseas.
Not sure if it worked but so far, touch wood, there have been no instances of experimentation with drugs and the children seem to handle alcohol pretty well... I suppose the jury is out until they reach 25 or so?
(reading the above it sounds either wonderful or ghastly - but I'm telescoping the conversations of several years into a few paragraphs)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Jen.
Godless Liberal
# 3131
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Posted
I think you did a great job l'organist! Pointing out the difference between skunk now and weed back then is crucial
My family also tend toward addiction and it wasn't shyed away from when I was younger, it's the only way.
The best thing is to get to the point where nothing is secret and hidden, but also excess isn't being approved of.
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Was Jenny Ann, but fancied being more minimal.
Posts: 5318 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Aug 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The skunk thing is a bit of a myth.
Anyway, back in the 60s and 70s and 80s most people didn't use grass/weed/leaf anyway, not in Britain. It was a rare luxury. They smoked (or ate) resin, which was much more concentrated.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Arabella Purity Winterbottom
Trumpeting hope
# 3434
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Posted
No prophet's way is my way. If they're using, kids will get defensive however you raise the subject, so you might as well be blunt. You will need to armour yourself and stay calm. Be prepared to offer your evidence, even if it is only hearsay.
After that it kind of depends on the drug in question. In my job its most often marijuana, and the signs are pretty obvious. However, we're getting too many kids using P (meth) in NZ, and that's much more challenging.
I must have been lucky, I think. I grew up on a winery and saw so many drunks in my early years that it put me off for life (not my family, who like many winery families were very light drinkers).
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Hell is full of the talented and Heaven is full of the energetic. St Jane Frances de Chantal
Posts: 3702 | From: Aotearoa, New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2002
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Want to know what is out there and what the kids know about the stuff? Ask them.
I think it is important to ask them first about what they know. Don't get into a lecture mode. Hear them out. Then reflect on what you know or have experienced yourself.
Kids seem to appreciate when parents are honest about past or even current use.
Myself, I have never tried any drug recreationally beyond alcohol. My kids saw me drink, but they never saw me drunk. They knew that after three drinks I would stop drinking. I have observed that my kids generally have the same standard.
I have used some pretty heavy prescriptions for various ailments and have told my kids drugs can be good if used in the right way. They seem to appreciate that approach.
My kids have seen the affects of severe drug abuse within the extended family and among their friends. They used to ask questions about what was happening. We tried to give them straight forward answers and even suggestions on how to encourage some of their friends to get help or how to support their friends in recovery.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Blunt, yes. Honest? Not so certain. I'll try to find the article I recently read, but it suggested not admitting to drug use, underage drinking, etc.
The argument (and research?) was this confers license, not the understanding typically thought.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
There are lots of social and cultural things with alcohol and drugs. I have friends I grew up with who were smoking up during their teens and continued during adulthood. That their children either adopted the habit and practice or went the other way to complete disapproval is what I've seen.
I should probably date my experience as well. I went to high school in the 1970s. There was a cultural anti-authority zeitgeist where long hair, bad music and stick it to the man, don't trust anyone over 30, attitude accompanied the pot use. Using drugs was a statement about the crappy values of the society, re race, re war, re money-centred screwing of others. The use today is rather different it seems, with, in my opinion, young people often 'self medicating' their troubles. It's not perhaps different than alcohol use for many teens too.
Unfortunately have made drugs into a legal issue where it is better dealt with as a health issue, a stress issue, a family issue.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
That sounds more like the 1960s, no prophet. Got your decades mixed?
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
That sounds more like the 1960s, no prophet. Got your decades mixed?
Probably. It seems to me that the 1960s ran from about 1965 to maybe 1973 out west. Backwards, slow western Canadians. Behind in everything. Except maybe CFL for Sask right now.
Winnipeg, which I lived in for some of that period, well, north Winterpeg still has guys with black t-shirts with a deck of smokes in the sleeve, driving chevy cans with tear drop back windows and fuzzy dice hanging from the rear view. Though that impression could be dated, last time I lived there was a year 1987-88, The Weakerthans singing One Great City (I Hate Winnipeg).
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
Recreational, non prescription.
any parents out there have any advice to share? Like how to bring up the subject when you have no idea how true the information is?
thanks.
The example of a close relative who did too many drugs in her formative years, and now has significant mental health issues has proved quite significant in the attitude that my nieces and nephew have formed.
I think there are two separate issues, and you should approach them as separate issues. One is the health issue (where occasional cannabis use isn't IMO a big deal, but frequent use could be cause for concern), and the other is the legal issue (even a single conviction for illegal drug use will limit your employment possibilities somewhat.
lilBuddha: I ran across a reference to the study that suggested parents who admitted to their own drug use were more likely to have children who used drugs than those who lied about it, as well.
I think this was the study I remember.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Thanks. I think you're right a bout not admitting to drug experiences. I don't know about the US, but in the UK some drugs are still counterculture and sticking it to the man. Older sister is telling on younger sister, and the info couldn't possibly have come from anywhere else. The girls are 21 & 20 and left home, tho only recently. I think I ha v e to let it go and trust her bAsic goodness and sense.
[ 03. September 2013, 16:11: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
A 20-year-old is an adult. Unless you're concerned about a serious addiction, let it be.
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote:
quote from Taliesin
...The girls are 21 & 20 and left home...
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
I'm gobsmacked.
These "girls" are women - able to vote, drive, drink (certainly in the UK), marry, etc, etc, etc.
And, if I read your posts correctly, you've left it until now to broach the subject of drugs?
I realise that one sister quote:
telling on younger sister
indicates a lack of maturity but even so.
Since they have left home you're really not in a position to say anything much at all.
IMO the most you might try (and only if they are home to stay for a perod) would be to state quite firmly that you will not tolerate the ingestion, smoking or injection of any illicit substances, although how you raise the subject in the first place is beyond difficult; certainly at the ages they are you mustn't do the "your sister tells me" bit.
And if you do raise the subject be prepared for the mother of all rows.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
I assume you mean to be supportive.
Obviously, we have discussed drugs, alcohol, relationships of all types, taxes, babies and death.
I'm referring to a specific situation and was feeling anxious. Clearly I have a boundary issue. Thank you for the advice.
Is there no one else whose 14 year old firmly said 'I'll never smoke' and later took up the habit? Or expressed sensible views about relationships then fell for someone that made you worry?
God knows I've had to hold such firm boundaries for the eldest with her eating and anxiety disorder, I'm exhausted and uncertain where my responsibility ends.
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
L'organist - you're making some sweeping assumptions here.
How do you know that these daughters aren't step-daughters who have been mostly living with the other parent in their younger days? At which point the opportunities to have those drug discussions are limited ...
Families these days don't have children living with the same two parents throughout their childhood and teenage years.
Taliesin - I've had those conversations, both with my own daughter and also with teenagers I've been working with.
Our laws on drugs aren't particularly consistent and to be honest, for some drugs the worst damage is legal: the criminal record that won't allow travel or some jobs. David Nutt, the Government drugs czar, lost his job for pointing out that if we graded drugs on damage (social, health, emotional / addiction), ecstasy is less damaging than tobacco and alcohol, cannabis is on a par with tobacco. And that if we were making those decisions now, alcohol might be class A.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Taliesin
Shipmate
# 14017
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Posted
Thanks CK. It's a mess, isn't it? They've always been aware that the scariest problem with illegal drugs is that you have to buy them from criminals, who put all kinds of crap in it to maximise profit.
Got to get to work.
[ 04. September 2013, 06:44: Message edited by: Taliesin ]
Posts: 2138 | From: South, UK | Registered: Aug 2008
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
... I think I have to let it go and trust her basic goodness and sense.
I think you have little option but to take this approach but I also know that parents will worry regardless, it sort of comes with the territory! I am not a parent but there are several young people across the world of whom I am fond and I "worry" about them all to a greater or lesser degree - and several of these young people are now young in no-one else's reckoning but mine!
My degree of worry might vary with drugs involved. I am not asking you to reveal that just saying that I think a little use of X is probably not as worrying as a little use of Y - and nowhere near as much as a lot of use of whatever.
What I think you need to do is keep some perspective on the situation - be aware of what you have been told but don't live in it - you know your daughters, we don't. Be aware of possibilities and risks and be watchful but not over-vigilant. Be open to conversations on the subject if the opportunities occur. You might also contact your local drugs advisory service and discuss your concerns with them, thus you will be better informed which might both help with your anxiety and with what to say if conversations do occur.
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Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Originally posted by l'organist:
quote:
I realise that one sister
quote: telling on younger sister
indicates a lack of maturity but even so.
I fail to see how one concerned sister sharing her worries with their mother indicates a "lack of maturity." Surely this is just part and parcel of family life?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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