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Source: (consider it) Thread: Fasting for children
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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My children (15 and 14) have been asked, along with the rest of their church youth group to go on a 24-hour sponsored fast.

Information on the internets regarding a 24-hour fast for middling-teens is scarce - there's a lot of stuff on Ramadan, but that's normally only 12 hours tops and is also a water-fast.

My (and Mrs Tor's) concerns are that firstly, they haven't really thought the "teenagers and their sometimes weird associations with food" thing - I have no idea if anyone in their group has problems with anorexia or bulimia, but a pound to a penny a whole bunch of them will be concerned about body-image.

And secondly, Master Tor can barely go five minutes without being faint with hunger at the moment, due to growing so quickly.

Any advice gratefully received.

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Curiosity killed ...

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Wouldn't it work better if they got them to eat a developing world diet instead? The sort of diet where you eat rice and not a lot else for 24 hours? So you're fasting from burgers, chips, sweets and other foods, but not from all food?

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Ariel
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# 58

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Has the youth group done this before, or is this a "first time" experience? If they haven't done this before, and you have nobody who has any experience of this in that setting to reassure you, back out. A 24-hour fast is difficult even for adults and anyone with underlying medical problems should not attempt this.

My own experience of longer fasts (not usually intended, it just happened sometimes when a young adult that I didn't have time for breakfast, then skipped lunch, and suddenly it was almost evening) is that a) I got mood swings, b) by 4 pm I'd developed a splitting headache and felt dizzy and a bit sick. Carrying on (if I was travelling and there was nowhere to get anything to eat at the time) became gruelling. Concentration levels dropped and I was tired and irritable. The next day saw a distinct drop in energy levels - I usually felt like a limp rag.

Timing can be a factor. If you have a large breakfast then nothing at all for the rest of the day, sleep through the night then are able to resume normal meals, it is slightly easier than beginning after dinner (say at 8pm) then carrying on through the next day until 8pm at night, but either way, I think it's asking too much of young people. Especially children who are still growing and girls who may be menstruating.

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Jenn.
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# 5239

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My church youth group did this once. I wanted to join in but was 'advised' not to because I was 'too skinny'. This in itself damaged my relationship with my body/food. I don't think these fasts are wise for teens, although the rice/beans day/weekend sounds much better. Teens tend to have mixed up relationships with food anyway, I'd be reluctant to use food in that way.
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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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There's fasting - which I think, historically, is more about eating a very restricted diet - and starving, which is eating nothing. If you're starting from the base of ordinary western life, which doesn't have any regular practice of complete abstention (unlike Islam) then 24hrs of no food will be very uncomfortable. Or, worse still, oddly attractive. My recollection of when I used to do mad stuff like that was that if you weathered the acute hunger pangs, you got a certain buzz - plus a tendency to pass out.
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Uncle Pete

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# 10422

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As a Catholic, I am quite familiar with the concept of fasting - I can't do it, twelve hours without food and water was my limit.

I find abstinence - eating little, or a restrictive diet quite easy and I have done this quite successfully over a 48 hour period.

But even the Church has some common sense. It does not require fasting under a certain age, or, indeed, over a certain age. They actually prohibit fasting at all, given certain medical conditions that might worsen.

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comet

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as a mom, especially of teenaged boys, I'd say no, simply because their metabolisms are like hummingbirds. Offer an alternative - my first thought is the thin liquid diet some have to do after surgery - broth, jello, etc. alternately, a thick liquid diet with fruit and veg smoothies, with some nut butter added for protein. I use these on busy days. always add greens!

the third world diet is also a good idea, though I'd personally make my kids take in a decent amount of protein. rice burns off in ten minutes flat. (mild exaggeration, natch.)

I don't think fasting in an of itself is a bad idea (except when people use it to lose weight. dangerous ground and unless it's a mental illness, it doesn't work. if it is a mental illness, the ground just got way more dangerous) but there are scales of severity.

As part of my weight lifting regime I use intermittent fasting, which is taking all of your daily (HEALTHY!) calories in in a short window of time. in my case, 8 hours. many people do 4, but I think you're starting to push the limit, there. If you'd like to know more about that, drop me a line.

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Arethosemyfeet
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My sister did it around that age with no ill effects. She had the odd cup of tea during the 24 hours and that was about it. I would suggest doing it noon to noon rather than midnight to midnight then there are only two meals missed; and do it when they're off school so they can sleep in on the second day.
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balaam

Making an ass of myself
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Not on a school day, not on a Sunday if it is the day before a school day.

The 24 hour period should be supervised so that no one is injured by fainting. Plenty of water to drink should keep the headaches away.

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Thanks for all the replies so far.

This was rather bounced on us: no prior warning, let alone consultation. The youth leader is herself quite young and full of enthusiasm, but isn't a particularly practical person - which is fine, but you know...

The fast is due to take place after breakfast on Saturday, through to Cafe church on Sunday, and they'll be together the whole time (also putting a kybosh on stuff like homework, regular activities, chores). While having the (very) grumpy teenagers out of the house while they do this is a bonus, we're reluctant to entrust the health of our kids to people who are well-meaning but not necessarily competent at supervising first-time fasters.

I used to fast regularly, once a week, with others, involving not just normal daily activities but also prayer, so I know the value of fasting in someone's spiritual life - but I'm also aware it's a discipline, a matter between the faster and God. Not necessarily the cause for sponsorship (which is what this is).

While we're as certain as we can be neither of our kids have latent or presenting eating disorders, the thing is no one asked us, and are therefore reasonably sure that no one asked any of the other parents, either.

We're considering the matter carefully, but can see no way Master Tor could manage 24 hours - he was nil-by-mouth for eight very recently, but that was in the context of being in hospital. After that experience, I think he's rather hoping that we simply say no, he can't do it.

Young Miss Tor is more complicated (in every way [Roll Eyes] ). She's finished growing, and is more likely to cope physically. She wants to do it because 'everybody else is': we just don't think it wise that anybody is.

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North East Quine

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# 13049

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Mine have done this a couple of times. Large breakfast on Saturday morning, then nothing but water and boiled sweets till breakfast on Sunday morning. They've also done the rice and beans thing. They spend the whole 24 hours together, with the males sleeping in one room and the females in another.

One of our youth leaders is a doctor, and another has some medical training. I had no worries, and our youth group seemed to quite enjoy the fast. My two certainly enjoyed it.

Daughter had a sore stomach and was generally unwell when they did the "only rice and beans" one, though that might have been co-incidence.

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North East Quine

Curious beastie
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Correction - I've just checked with my daughter, and they fasted from food. But tea and coffee were available as well as water, and they had hot chocolate before bed.

My son did it at ages 16 and 19, my daughter at 17, so a bit older than your two. But there were younger teens in my kids' group.

The "rice and beans" one was when they were 17 and 15.

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luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761

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World Vision have had a 24 Hour Famine since the '80s. I remember our school doing it. I was in primary 4 (aged 8ish) and my mother wouldn't allow me to participate. She never said why, it was just "No, it's bad". I was the only one in the class not allowed to do it, and it was thoroughly humiliating. The same thing the next year, and the next.

Anyway, around the world there are probably lots of places where people, including children and teenagers, might not get to eat for a day for reasons outside of their control. I think one 24-hour period of not eating for well-nourished western kids who normally get food on demand isn't a big issue, unless they have actual medical reasons to say they shouldn't.
Skipping two three or four meals on the trot is something everyone does at some point - students when they run out of money for example, or when it's busy at work or something and you just forget. It's not a big deal, and making it into one can be the sort of thing that makes food into An Issue.

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the giant cheeseburger
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# 10942

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Lots of church groups do 40 Hour Famine for World Vision Australia each August which is equal parts awareness about international needs for justice and fundraising. Not everybody does food these days, 40HF encourages going without technology, furniture, talking, sight or something else that's a regular part of their affluent first world life (or a combination of the above) as well. Many kids do one of those out of choice, and a lot have found it's actually better for talking about why they are doing it with potential sponsors.

For those doing without food for the 40HF, World Vision suggest plenty of water at any time, and a plain barley sugar sweet every two hours or so. 40HF starts at 8pm on the Friday of the weekend (i.e. after the evening meal) and finishes at midday on the Sunday (with lunch afterwards), so a fair part of the time is time you would be fasting overnight while asleep anyway, and it's only four main meals skipped (Saturday breakfast, lunch, tea and Sunday breakfast).

I doubt I would bother sponsoring anybody who only did a 24 hour thing, that's realistically only two meals missed if you did an early evening meal before starting it and a late one after finishing it 24 hours later. Missing only two meals isn't at all hard for a teenager because it's not enough to actually get hungry unless they have sport or another period of major activity in that time, the desire to eat would come more from habit than from hunger. For many teenagers missing one meal is common if they are running late for school or forgot their lunch, add in a big pre-fast meal and missing two meals is so easy it's ridiculous.


I would agree that handling issues around body image sensitively is important. Telling somebody they can't do it because they are too skinny (or that they should because they're too fat) is just not on, and it's good to have other options available and encouraged.

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Mili

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# 3254

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The popular fundraiser here in Australia is World Vision's 40 hour famine. These days you can give up other things than food though. I did this one through church a few times as a teenager and never had any problems, though we did it on a weekend and I didn't have to work. We were allowed to have water, orange juice and lollies/sweets like barley sugar.

These days my metabolism works differently and I get dizzy, inattentive and then grumpy if I don't eat regularly so I don't know how I'd go if I did it now. I just sponsor other people.

They also encourage people to 'fast' from other things like technology or furniture if they don't want to or can't do food. One of my friends wore no shoes this year and another fasted from caffeine for 40 days. I don't know if they consider eating disorders. A few years back one of my early twenties friends who was struggling with Anorexia, but trying and mostly succeeding to eat healthily, felt bad about not fasting from food. However we talked her into fasting from something else.

Here's a link about safety:

40 Hour Famine tips for staying safe

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the giant cheeseburger
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
We're considering the matter carefully, but can see no way Master Tor could manage 24 hours - he was nil-by-mouth for eight very recently, but that was in the context of being in hospital. After that experience, I think he's rather hoping that we simply say no, he can't do it.

I'm no medical expert, but that (not being able to go eight hours without food) sounds like something isn't quite normal for a teenager that you should get checked out. A teenager should easily be able to skip one main meal without it being a problem any larger than being a bit hungrier at the next meal.

I think you should make an appointment to talk with your family doctor without your son there and then an appointment for him to have a full medical examination. If some kind of excess, deficit or imbalance shows up from the examination or blood tests it would then be worth getting a referral to a dietician so you can move towards the necessary changes being included in a better balanced diet the whole family can follow rather than popping pills or supplements.

[ 15. September 2013, 12:37: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
We're considering the matter carefully, but can see no way Master Tor could manage 24 hours - he was nil-by-mouth for eight very recently, but that was in the context of being in hospital. After that experience, I think he's rather hoping that we simply say no, he can't do it.

I'm no medical expert, but that (not being able to go eight hours without food) sounds like something isn't quite normal for a teenager that you should get checked out. A teenager should easily be able to skip one main meal without it being a problem any larger than being a bit hungrier at the next meal.

I think you should make an appointment to talk with your family doctor without your son there and then an appointment for him to have a full medical examination. If some kind of excess, deficit or imbalance shows up from the examination or blood tests it would then be worth getting a referral to a dietician so you can move towards the necessary changes being included in a better balanced diet the whole family can follow rather than popping pills or supplements.

Er, no.

It's that he's grown about six inches and three shoe sizes since January, and it's perfectly reasonable for him to be starving pretty much all the time. And he does all that on home cooking, from scratch with fresh ingredients, every time.

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luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
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They might feel a bit weird or grumpy or even dizzy, but one day of not eating, in an otherwise well-nourished life, isn't going to harm them.
It's a bit sad that we've got so much available so easily that we're all worried that not eating for a day might hurt us. It's skipping a few meals, it's not a big deal. As The Giant Cheeseburger said (and in so doing created a lovely little FLP, by the way) it's only 24 hours.

If the whole bunch of the youth group is together for it, it might be a good chance for them to discuss how they're feeling, how this might not be so unusual an occurance to some people around the world - and not by choice or with the cushion of regular diet that they have, and how over-privileged and spoilt our society is by comparison.

As to anyone with EDs, some might find it triggery - the need to fast for longer because 24 hours is easy enough that the whole youth group can do it. Some might not, or might find it less triggery than activities in which food is an intrinsic part, feeling trapped and isolated by the assumed easiness of the food element, having to purge afterwards or exercise/restrict more to make up for it or the resultant feelings of guilt, or the feeling of being sullied by food. People don't seem to worry that any of a youth group with body issues or ED-type issues might suffer from a pizza night, or a sleepover or having dinner together, or having snacks around or whatever, yet they get all bothered by the mention of the word 'fasting', even on those occasions when it's not directly talking about a food-fast.

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Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
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Um - isn't there a connection between smaller adult sizes and nutrition? Isn't better nutrition the reason Dutch and American people have grown so much taller since WWII? Fasting / famine shows up on bone growth - you get lines showing slowed growth patterns.

Yes, I know we're greedy and the rest of the world does not have the luxury of the food we have and 24 hours fasting will not make a difference, but maybe choosing a less greedy diet would be just as effective at raising that awareness without the additional stresses of a total fast. And maybe including it with a technology fast.

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North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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As others have said, it can be as little as two meals missed - ours had a larger-than-average breakfast on Saturday morning, missed lunch and dinner, slept for most of the hours when they're were furthest from having eaten, and then had a large breakfast on Sunday morning. One of the youth group couldn't do it because he was on medication which had to be taken with a meal, so just hung out with the rest of the group for a few hours on Sat afternoon.
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Ariel
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# 58

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Yes, children in the Third World can and do go without meals. And I don't doubt that they also feel lightheaded, tired, and unhappy but they survive: human beings are great adapters, and the refugees will have got some practice in after the initial shock to the system.

In the West people are over-fed and some are positively spoilt to the point where they throw away perfectly good food because they're bored with it or don't like it. I just don't think that not eating for 24 hours is going to help. It would be more to the point if they had a subsistence diet of something like unflavoured, plain porridge for each meal or as was suggested earlier, gave up technology. Giving up mobile phones and internet (and maybe television) for 24 hours would probably be far harder for them, but more psychologically beneficial.

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Josephine

Orthodox Belle
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If there is anyone in the youth group with migraine, Doc Tor, they should know that, along with dehydration and sleep deprivation, skipped meals is one of the most common and most powerful migraine triggers. Many people with migraine are treated by their primary care physician and not by a migraine specialist (because migraine specialists are few and far between), and primary care doctors may not know or think to tell their patients that.

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The Kat in the Hat
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I was about that age when my older sister & I took part in a weekend of fasting.
I seem to remember we were allowed (encourage possibly) to have as much water, clear juice and clear soup as we wanted.

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Jane R
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I second what Josephine has said. We went to a Sunday School barbecue yesterday (yes, it was pouring with rain but hey! we're British! we did it anyway) and the person who was bringing the rolls was over an hour late. As a result of this, Little J's lunch was 2 hours later than usual and she is off school today with a migraine. So even delaying one meal can have serious consequences for someone with an underlying medical condition.

And it doesn't sound to me as if Master Tor ought to be fasting either, if he's going through a growth spurt.

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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Just to say at this point, I (and Mrs Tor) are enormously grateful for all your views posted here. Discussions are ongoing!

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Vulpior

Foxier than Thou
# 12744

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I did a multi-day (2?) fast when I was in my mid-to-late teens (in 6th form/year 12). I drank water and fruit juice during that time. It should be perfectly possible to undertake a fast as a teenager.

I think that the fact that all those undertaking the fast will be together for the duration requires some risk assessment and active supervision of intake on behalf of the organisers. You wouldn't want people to feel shy about taking their liquid intake because of a perception of peer pressure, for example.

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lily pad
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In Canada, church youth groups and many many schools, especially senior high schools, participate in the 30 Hour Famine. I've never heard of the concerns raised here. Certainly anyone with a medical condition would be accommodated but students from ages 13 or 14 to 18 participate in it regularly. The web page has information for parents and information on fasting.

[ 17. September 2013, 04:27: Message edited by: lily pad ]

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