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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hard Times
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computergeek
Apprentice
# 17826
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Posted
In an idle moment I have been browsing the directory of members.
Over 800 pages of names!
I did not look at every page but a representative sample of about 50.
Try it for yourself.
One thing which is immediately obvious is that the vast bulk of registered members (I would reckon 90% plus) are apprentices who have, in most cases, made zero posts. Where an Apprentice has posted, the most common number of posts are 1 or 2.
I would suggest that the number of active strand regular posters is less than a few hundred.
What puts people off posting?
I wonder if regular posters are aware of the air of smugness and intellectual superiority which is very apparent on these Boards. New members are only welcome insofar as they don't rock the Ship or challenge the views of regular posters. It's very obvious that the old trusties get away with much, much more than regular posters.
The tone of the Boards is that if a very smug and self-satisfied club of "in" people sharing private jokes with each other.
I suggest that regular posters just aren't aware of how smug it all seems to the newcomer or outsider. Not many newcomers seem to have the courage or energy to point this out.
As someone said recently on one of the threads, Whistleblowers can expect a hard time.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Sep 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
computergeek: I would suggest that the number of active strand regular posters is less than a few hundred.
I can think of many, many boards that would thank the Lord on their bare little knees if they had a couple of hundred active posters.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I think you have to take into account that a lot of people register, maybe say a thing or two, then get bored (or angry) and wander away, never to darken our doors again. To get a really good accounting of current members you'd need to know how long it's been since they visited, and how frequently.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Hi computergeek,
Before this thread gets shunted elsewhere (possibly to Purgatory, 'cos it's worth a debate) I wonder it this 'hockey stick' usage is not typical of bulletin boards? I've signed on to many BBs of varying topics but the Ship is the only one I post on much. This might even be typical of communities as a whole; after all, what proportion of the population are involved in party politics beyond voting?
btw, if anyone irritates you with 'smuggery', there's always the Hell board!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I don't have the time to replicate your analysis of members. But, I reckon your stats are about right. If you look at the number of visitors at the bottom of the main forum page, it rarely goes over 150.
As to why people register and don't post, or post very rarely, I don't really know but there are several reasons I can think of that would come above your suggestion that the Ship is cliquey and unwelcoming.
For a start, I expect many people register because they see a thread that's of interest but by the time the registration process has been completed the thread has moved on or someone has already said what they'd want to say. I know I've frequently read an interesting thread but not posted because what I can contribute has already been said. I'm sure I'm not unique there.
Some people register to contribute to one thread, and simply don't have time after that initial contribution (or, non-contribution if the reason above is valid) to read many other threads. Infrequent visitors will probably find that seeing an interesting thread where everything has already been said is very common. They still pop in and see what people are saying, but very rarely get the chance to say their piece before someone else says it for them.
Some people register, maybe post one or two times, and find that the Ship isn't quite what they're looking for. We can't possibly fill every need people have. Hopefully they've found what they're looking for somewhere else. Our serious discussion boards are places where any view posted may be robustly critiqued, some people want something a bit less robust. That's find, but robust and unrestful discussion is what we're about.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I'm also not sure if the Ship should 'reach out to the masses'. According to the number of posters who post actively here, there is obviously a need for intelligent discussion of faith-related topic on the internet. If the Ship can provide that, then what's wrong with that?
I do agree with you though that there is a bit of a threshold to go over if you post here for the first time. I had to swallow five times before I made my first post here years ago. I'm not sure what the Ship can do about that.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
I wonder if regular posters are aware of the air of smugness and intellectual superiority which is very apparent on these Boards. New members are only welcome insofar as they don't rock the Ship or challenge the views of regular posters. It's very obvious that the old trusties get away with much, much more than regular posters.
The tone of the Boards is that if a very smug and self-satisfied club of "in" people sharing private jokes with each other.
I suggest that regular posters just aren't aware of how smug it all seems to the newcomer or outsider. Not many newcomers seem to have the courage or energy to point this out.
As someone said recently on one of the threads, Whistleblowers can expect a hard time.
Did you have any particular boards or threads in mind?
In some ways, I can sympathise with your point about intellectualism. There are some seriously clever people round here and sometimes - usually in Purgatory - they don't pull any punches. There's scarcely a Shipmate (including the clever ones) who hasn't been singed at some time or another. But that's Purgatory: robust, get-you-brain-in-gear debate is what it's about. You're much less likely to find that kind of thing, say, in All Saints, which is much more about mutual support.
And yes, there's a number of seasoned posters here who'll jokingly recall with each other things that happened years ago. But there's nothing in that that's intended to exclude newcomers.
There may be all sorts of reasons why people register but don't post. But also, don't assume that a low post count means that someone posted for a while and then stopped - I've been here long enough to know of a number of people who keep posting, but who do it only once every few weeks, months or even years.
Stick around. Honestly, there's more to the Ship than you seem to have experienced so far.
(Cross posted with ... ooh, virtually everybody.)
[ 19. September 2013, 15:35: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
As someone said recently on one of the threads, Whistleblowers can expect a hard time.
Whistleblowers about what? How many boards welcome newbies coming on board and saying, "You're doing it all wrong. I know because I'm new and can see exactly how to fix your culture, whereas you're blind to it." I can't imagine that kind of arrogance would get much good play anywhere. We've seen it many times, and yes, people who blow that hard often meet with resistance. Can you just imagine.
As for people challenging theological positions, there probably aren't a LOT of mainstreamish theological positions that aren't represented here, plus atheists, Swedenborgians, yada yada. We don't tend to have a lot of people from non-Christian backgrounds, but then I don't know why they would be particularly drawn to a board about "Christian Unrest."
It's true that Mormons tend to get driven away by certain long-time members who have had very bad experiences with Mormonism. But I can't think of any other group that gets that treatment.
But to be quite honest, the OP has not a little of the air of "Waaah, I'm not in the 'in group'" about it.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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computergeek
Apprentice
# 17826
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Posted
Well, its not all bad.
The thread which I started on baptism got some amazingly helpful replies, but then seemed to descend into intellectual smuggery (mousethief, what have you got against believers' baptism, and please don't SHOUT?). On the other hand, as a new believer I asked for a simple explanation about hell and eternal conscious suffering and was made fun of. Very offputting. I will take my questions off board. Yes, SoF does some things great, and has some stupendously gifted explainers (on baptism, cliffdweller rates a Big Thanks from me) but some stuff reakes of smuggery.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Sep 2013
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
On the other hand, as a new believer I asked for a simple explanation about hell and eternal conscious suffering and was made fun of. Very offputting.
Was that where you got into a conversation with Martin PC Not etc.? I don't think he was having a go at you, that's just how he writes. Some of us suspect him of being a prophet - heart of gold and a passion for Jesus that sometimes gets in the way of comprehensibility. And I really hope he takes that as the compliment it's meant to be.
(And here's me, been here ten years, and I still catch myself wondering if I've broken a house rule by referring to another Shipmate in their absence. I love this place.)
(Edited for typos. My typing's all over the place today. I think I've got dysfingeria.)
[ 19. September 2013, 15:58: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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computergeek
Apprentice
# 17826
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Posted
Actually, it wasn't Martin PC. I realised he was being serious, although I am too dim to understand bis point so decided it was best not to engage with him as I was not understanding what he was getting at and thought it was pointless pursuing it at a late hour. No, someone suggested that I should take myself and my reasonable question elsewhere as you guys are all too clever for me.
Maybe weshould have a Ship of Fools Inclusive Day for the thick people.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Sep 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
computergeek: On the other hand, as a new believer I asked for a simple explanation about hell and eternal conscious suffering and was made fun of.
I'm not sure if there is 'a simple explanation about hell and eternal conscious suffering'. Among the Christian spectrum, there are is a whole range of opinions about this topic. One of the advantages of the Ship is that you can have a taste of all these different opinions (although I admit that it can be a bit overwhelming at times).
Adding more to this, we also have are different ways of expressing ourselves on the Ship. I think this is what you encountered on the thread you are referring to.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
mousethief, what have you got against believers' baptism, and please don't SHOUT?
It's an innovation, not the historic teaching of the church. The best the believers' baptism crowd can come up with is an argument from silence and the idea that the church very early got it all wrong, and they have come along miraculously 1500 years later and fixed things. We shouldn't argue this here, but you ask me what I have against it and so I give this answer.
quote:
On the other hand, as a new believer I asked for a simple explanation about hell and eternal conscious suffering and was made fun of.
Really, there is no simple explanation about that. Honest. It's a very fraught subject with two millenia of back-and-forth that has resulted in no universally-accepted solution. Because every side (universalists, annihilationists, and eternal-tormentists) can pull out scripture passage after scripture passage to (not unreasonably) support its claim.
And what Adeodatus said about Martin. He has very strong opinions and expresses them in ways many find difficult to understand.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
computergeek: No, someone suggested that I should take myself and my reasonable question elsewhere as you guys are all too clever for me.
On which thread did that happen?
quote:
computergeek: Maybe weshould have a Ship of Fools Inclusive Day for the thick people.
We do. It is called H&A Day ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) (Now there's an inside joke ![[Biased]](wink.gif) )
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I find, too, that over time there are a few (but only a few) posters whom I'll consciously avoid, because they tend to annoy me - unless, of course, I want to get annoyed that day.
On the other hand, there are names that appear on threads that will make me go and put the kettle on just so I can sit and read what they've written. This kind of poster are more numerous than the other.
It's like being part of any community, virtual or real. There'll be people you don't get along with, and people you genuinely feel privileged to be sharing time with. There have been occasions when time spent on the Ship has done far more for my faith than time spent in Church has ever achieved.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
computergeek: No, someone suggested that I should take myself and my reasonable question elsewhere as you guys are all too clever for me.
On which thread did that happen?
I assume it's a reference to this post by another relatively new Shipmate, which was immediately challenged by someone else.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
Actually, it wasn't Martin PC. I realised he was being serious, although I am too dim to understand bis point so decided it was best not to engage with him as I was not understanding what he was getting at and thought it was pointless pursuing it at a late hour. No, someone suggested that I should take myself and my reasonable question elsewhere as you guys are all too clever for me.
Maybe weshould have a Ship of Fools Inclusive Day for the thick people.
(my italics)
That feeling isn't unusual. The Ship is the one place on God's Green Earth where I don't consider myself an Alpha (or at least a Beta+) Dog. I work with some very smart, legally trained, engineers and scientists but the folk here are smarter and sharper still. Through persistence on my part and avoidance of topics that are way beyond me, I've grown to love this place and learn a lot from it.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Alan Cresswell: I assume it's a reference to this post by another relatively new Shipmate, which was immediately challenged by someone else.
The way I read it, this poster was making a derogatory comment about the Ship's community, not about computergeek or his/her intelligence. And yes, it was a bit daft.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Hi, computergeek: Just so you know (in case you'd rather skip this post), I'm not a believer. I used to be one -- spent many years in 3 different churches (& denoms) before giving up on religion in general and Christianity in particular.
Here's my personal experience of those 3 different churches:
1. Extravagant welcome, lots of attention on arrival (you know, people want to know about you), followed by:
2. Dropping you like a packet of dead flies once they find out you're Not Their Sort (too poor, too single, too young, too old, too traditional, too nonconformist, etc. etc.)
3. Resuming the old connections they've had with other pew-warmer for years, and accidentally or possibly purposely excluding you by constantly referring to stuff that happened ages ago, etc.
It's like joining any established group of humans. It takes time and energy to discover or create a little niche for yourself.
I've stayed here as long as I have precisely because it's not much like a church (despite all the voluminous discussion of Things Religious).
For me, these differences are:
1. New people come aboard pretty regularly, so there's always fresh possibilities for re-arranging your niche.
2. The primary difference between those who post regularly here and the pew-warmers I encountered in church is that folks here, in addition to so many being so much smarter than I am, want to Learn. In church, most of the people I met wanted to Teach. Unfortunately, most of what they wanted to Teach consisted of tired, wan, threadbare old clichés. I don't want clichés. I want authentic thought and real discussion.
I learned more about (for one example) the history of the church on this Ship in my first 6 months than I learned in roughly 15 years of church membership (and I served as a deacon at one point). While church history isn't my "thing," those discussions were / are interesting and informative.
I learned more about various "species" of Christianity here (to say nothing of other traditions) than in 15 years of churchgoing.
Most important, though, what I find here isn't "smugness" (with a few random exceptions) so much as "confidence" -- people here are not only smart (in many case, brilliant), they're well-educated, thoughtful, self-reflective, and willing to be wrong. Man, if only I were half as smart as some the posters here . . .
Those who stay here seem to "stick" over periods of years, and during that time, relationships develop. You can't come down on folks for getting to know each other through long association, and trading obscure jibes and jokes on that basis. It comes with the territory of commitment to this Ship and the fellowship it provides. You'll develop connections of your own, and a few years hence, will be indulging in inside jokes with them.
If confidence and commitment puts newcomers off, then maybe the Ship isn't a good fit for them anyway. If people here use language and references that mean little to newbies, they have a choice: stick around and "eavesdrop" and learn which end is up, or decide that learning things is not for them.
No shame there; lots of people reach a point in life where they feel done with taking new stuff on board. They're interested other mental activities. But providing a learning environment is what the Ship does best.
But frankly, this is the only site I've ever come across which comes close to satisfying my own appetite for learning and discovery -- and I'm not even interested in religion. There are discussions here about politics, public policies, governance, music, art, personal habits and peculiarities, cooking, crafts, education, disabilities, movies, books, popular culture, and on and on.
I wouldn't worry about the poster/membership ratio. There are enough posters here, and enough variety of posters (all of them in the "in" crowd), to sail the Ship over more seas than I've mentioned.
Sure, there are discussions here that are over my head. (There are also academics, theologians, physicists, and so on with advanced degrees in stuff I never heard of, who discuss things I can only dimly grasp -- why wouldn't there be?) The wonderful advantage to discussion forums like these, though, is you can read and watch and listen without commenting. You're not required to risk making an ass of yourself.
I dunno. I think the Ship's a great thing. I also think it's not for everybody, nor should it be.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Most boards have a "don't bite the newbies" type of policy. I recall my first post, which about a topic I was interested in. Unfortunately it was to hell and I was immediately sworn at by 2 long time members (I remember who they are actually). I objected and was hit again. This doesn't happen always, but probably a little gentleness and some instructions within a welcome-confirmation email to newly openned accounts, coupled with the idea newbies deserve come consideration? And some host/admin guidance / intervention then?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's true that Mormons tend to get driven away by certain long-time members who have had very bad experiences with Mormonism. But I can't think of any other group that gets that treatment.
Muslims
On the Ship?
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
No, someone suggested that I should take myself and my reasonable question elsewhere as you guys are all too clever for me.
Whilst there are a very few who do seem to have this attitude, I would not say this is the prevalent ethos. And though I personally think newbies should be perhaps given a little leeway, one presumes we are adults.
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Most boards have a "don't bite the newbies" type of policy. I recall my first post, which about a topic I was interested in. Unfortunately it was to hell and I was immediately sworn at by 2 long time members (I remember who they are actually). I objected and was hit again. This doesn't happen always, but probably a little gentleness and some instructions within a welcome-confirmation email to newly openned accounts, coupled with the idea newbies deserve come consideration? And some host/admin guidance / intervention then?
I do agree, sometimes, posters in Hell are nastier than need be. However, a warning is stamped on the lintel.
I like porridge's most excellent post. Except this part.
quote:
You're not required to risk making an ass of yourself.
I do wish I had known this earlier.
As to the member post count, ISTM, this is the way most participatory sites work. Active posters, active listeners and occasional visitors.
There are a number in which I have registered to be able to ask questions or find information but have seldom posted. Indeed a few I've no doubt forgotten I've even been to.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Most boards have a "don't bite the newbies" type of policy. I recall my first post, which about a topic I was interested in. Unfortunately it was to hell and I was immediately sworn at by 2 long time members (I remember who they are actually). I objected and was hit again. This doesn't happen always, but probably a little gentleness and some instructions within a welcome-confirmation email to newly openned accounts, coupled with the idea newbies deserve come consideration? And some host/admin guidance / intervention then?
Part of the ship's unwritten ethos is that newbies get a pass for up to 50 posts, provided they don't post in Hell. In Hell, just as it says on the label, posting is tantamount to drawing a target on yourself. Assuming newbies can read, they will know this.
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's true that Mormons tend to get driven away by certain long-time members who have had very bad experiences with Mormonism. But I can't think of any other group that gets that treatment.
Muslims
On the Ship?
I can't remember the last time we had a Muslim on the ship, so I can't say whether or not s/he was driven away. If there are currently any Muslims here, I cannot say. I certainly haven't seen any Muslim-unfriendly behavior directed at any shipmates.
(ETA: And there's a good way to find out exactly how hell works and how people are treated there. Read it for a while before jumping in. This is actually pretty standard wisdom for any online discussion site.)
[ 19. September 2013, 18:53: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Part of the ship's unwritten ethos is that newbies get a pass for up to 50 posts, provided they don't post in Hell. In Hell, just as it says on the label, posting is tantamount to drawing a target on yourself. Assuming newbies can read, they will know this.
If the topic is accessed from "today's active threads", then clicking on the topic in the listing and not going to the main listing for the Hell forum, then the Hell warning is not provided.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
No, but it should be the practice to become familiar with "house" rules. Tourists would be more welcome everywhere if they but followed this practice.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
Well, look at it this way, computergeek – you've crashed a party that's been going on for a while, and some of the people partying have known each other for years. Nobody has a problem with the fact that you've crashed the party – if you draw attention to the fact that you're new, some may even take the trouble to murmur a few words of welcome.
There are loads of conversations going on and – rather than having to hover on the sidelines for ages, mirroring people's body language – you can jump straight in. The downside of this is that no one is obliged to respond to you. Equally, nobody is obliged to be polite, but, - except in one place (clearly marked as having different rules) - they are obliged not to be rude or unkind.
As in real life, people who know each other well may refer to things they have in common, and they may not bother to explain that to you, even if they are aware that you are listening (which they may not be). You can always ask.
I've been on the ship for quite some time, but there are still plenty of private conversations, references and jokes that elude me. I didn't do the Nativity play, and I didn't have much to do with the Ark, either, nor with Church of Fools. There are loads and loads of long-term shipmates who know each other better than I know them or they know me. Does that bother me? No. And why should it? Why should they modify their conversations to take account of me? If they refer to something I don't know about, I can ask them to explain it, if it's relevant – and they will then either do that, or tell me it's not really relevant and suggest I mind my own business. Actually,. I don't think anybody's ever done that, but that's mostly because I don't bother to ask. I just go, 'Oh they're on about that again', and walk (metaphorically) away.
As for smugness and intellectual superiority: well, some are genuinely intellectually superior – and some are just twats – one or two are both at once. Ignore the latter and cultivate the former. In real life, if you join a community of a couple of hundred people, would you expect that you're going to like all of them? If you want to stay, stay; if you want to go, go.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
'As we arrive in the vicinity of Lincoln's-inn-fields, Bedford-row and other legal haunts, we drop a great many of our original passengers, and take up fresh ones, who meet with a very sulky reception. It is rather remarkable, that the people already in an omnibus, always look at newcomers, as if they entertained some undefined idea that they have no business to come in at all.'
Charles Dickens on Omnibuses
It could well be the same here. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
If the topic is accessed from "today's active threads", then clicking on the topic in the listing and not going to the main listing for the Hell forum, then the Hell warning is not provided.
On the front page of the ship is the recommendation (in the imperative, albeit with a "please") to check out the FAQs before doing anything else. Ignorance of anything in the FAQs, including the culture of Hell, which is specifically addressed in the FAQs, is therefore on the user's head, not the Ship's.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
Computergeek not only crashed the party, they'd been ejected from it once before. That said, it's an interesting discussion and worth continuing.
Tubbs
Styx host
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Part of the ship's unwritten ethos is that newbies get a pass for up to 50 posts, provided they don't post in Hell. In Hell, just as it says on the label, posting is tantamount to drawing a target on yourself. Assuming newbies can read, they will know this.
If the topic is accessed from "today's active threads", then clicking on the topic in the listing and not going to the main listing for the Hell forum, then the Hell warning is not provided.
For those that don't know, you need 51 posts to earn Shipmate status. By the time you've got there, it's assumed you've learnt the ropes.
I thought the unwritten rule that anyone with less than 50 posts got cut some slack applied even in Hell.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
'As we arrive in the vicinity of Lincoln's-inn-fields, Bedford-row and other legal haunts, we drop a great many of our original passengers, and take up fresh ones, who meet with a very sulky reception. It is rather remarkable, that the people already in an omnibus, always look at newcomers, as if they entertained some undefined idea that they have no business to come in at all.'
Charles Dickens on Omnibuses
It could well be the same here.
Well done. It also illustrates the continuity of humanity and how we are always ever the same.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Every place has a culture.
However, it cannot be true that it's impossible for new members to make headway, or we would never, ever get anyone who signed up after a certain date becoming an active member. A look at the joining dates of active folk will show you that there is a steady stream of arrivals.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058
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Posted
It is my understanding that some people who had very rocky beginnings on the ship have become valued members of the ship. As for newcomers fitting in, who is the youngest host and/or admin in ship years?
I value the ship because of the diversity of Christians found here that isn't found elsewhere on the net. Add in those of us who are in a mostly Christian society but don't consider ourselves Christians. And to top it off the intelligence. Admittedly there is an Anglican flavor but there is no religious test for any position (official or unofficial) on the ship. Now if I could just figure out about the bunnies.
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spinner of webs
Posts: 1093 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I could be wrong, but I think the youngest in ship years is orfeo.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
With Ariston running close, I think. Not too many greybeards around anymore. Well Moo's not a greybeard, but...
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
A little spontaneous rummaging around in the secret recesses of the Hosts and Admins gin cabinet suggests that I am, indeed, the baby of the bunch. But it wasn't a thorough scientific exercise.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I'm still young I tell you! Young! Hair like spun gold!
Of course there are in-groups - there are whole boards I never go to because I'm not In church-going or bible-reading. Long-running threads I scroll past because I don't follow that sport or care about that issue. I don't live on the west coast of North America, so a fair amount of cultural references by those who do pass me by.
I'm not aware of any constellation of Shipmates for whom 'in-ness' is the point. Which is more than can be said of RL in some instances.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
On the whole I find the ship incredibly tolerant as a board and it's achieved by two things: the presence of hell and the good and conscientious work of the admins and hosts. Generally speaking too, members of the ship are fairly tolerant on the whole, many will greatly encourage and some will stretch you. A few will act like prize assholes and there are varied reasons for this. It might be that they love the look of their own posts, or that they are suspicious of what might be a troll or someone who posts not to engage in a debate but to simply give themselves a public platform for their own views. When it comes to that last one I rarely have any sympathy, I mostly ignore trolls, but I do feel sorry for those who are treated with a bit of suspicion when they are new. But on the whole, there is a much better atmosphere on these boards than on any other I have ever logged on to.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
But on the whole, there is a much better atmosphere on these boards than on any other I have ever logged on to.
This. And so I'm still here. Because it's a nice place to hang out.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Net Spinster:
It is my understanding that some people who had very rocky beginnings on the ship have become valued members of the ship. As for newcomers fitting in, who is the youngest host and/or admin in ship years?
I value the ship because of the diversity of Christians found here that isn't found elsewhere on the net. Add in those of us who are in a mostly Christian society but don't consider ourselves Christians. And to top it off the intelligence. Admittedly there is an Anglican flavor but there is no religious test for any position (official or unofficial) on the ship. Now if I could just figure out about the bunnies.
That’s true – some of them have even become Crew. There’s a nice mix of ages in the Crew -in both Ship years and real years. (Is a Ship year like a dog year – 7 years in real terms btw?!)
IME, you tend to get out of any community what you put in – if you look for offense, cliques etc you’ll find them. If you’re reasonably open minded, up for discussion and have spent a little time exploring before jumping in, then you should have a good voyage.
And, like you, the reason I value the Ship so highly is that it is very different from many other Christian websites – provided you can argue your case and stay within the commandments, you can say pretty much what you like! There’s a range of churchmanship and nationalities etc.
The bunnies live in Heaven. Then there’s the one with the axe who wanders about all over the place and Fluffy who identifies potential hosts.
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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snowgoose
Silly goose
# 4394
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Posted
I have been on the Ship for a number of years now, though I read much more than I post. I lurked for quite a while before I signed up and even then (as I recall) didn't post immediately.
It had nothing to do with perceived "smugness and intellectual superiority"; if I had thought the place was smug I wouldn't have joined at all. I was just a bit nervous about jumping right in. When I did start posting, people were quite welcoming.
IME the Ship is no more in-crowdish than a lot of other boards, and less so than most long-standing ones. I'm in the fluffy bunny category (mostly Heaven, All Saints, and Circus) though, and it was quite some time before I braved the fires of Hell. I think they make it quite clear that Hell is not for the timid or inexperienced.
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Lord, what can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the Reaper Man? --Terry Pratchett
Save a Siamese!
Posts: 3868 | From: Tidewater Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
Actually, it wasn't Martin PC. I realised he was being serious, although I am too dim to understand bis point so decided it was best not to engage with him as I was not understanding what he was getting at and thought it was pointless pursuing it at a late hour. No, someone suggested that I should take myself and my reasonable question elsewhere as you guys are all too clever for me.
Maybe weshould have a Ship of Fools Inclusive Day for the thick people.
(my italics)
That feeling isn't unusual. The Ship is the one place on God's Green Earth where I don't consider myself an Alpha (or at least a Beta+) Dog. I work with some very smart, legally trained, engineers and scientists but the folk here are smarter and sharper still. Through persistence on my part and avoidance of topics that are way beyond me, I've grown to love this place and learn a lot from it.
Ditto. I have an LLB honours degree plus post-grad professional qualifications and yet there are people here who can run rings around me faster than you can say 'graduate dunce'.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's true that Mormons tend to get driven away by certain long-time members who have had very bad experiences with Mormonism. But I can't think of any other group that gets that treatment.
Muslims
On the Ship?
Tubbs
Yes - I remember two - often sticking up for the true teaching about jihad or against the Barnabas Fund.
I have twice been called to Hell for supporting them.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Mary Beth
Apprentice
# 92
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Posted
I'm one of those long time members, mostly non-poster.
I signed up just after Hurricane Joanne and have been blessed by this site for many years, now. Blessed by real life friendships and an ever increasing growth in my life - spiritual and secular (although I don't see much separation there).
It's hard to say why I don't post. A basic shy personality, somebody always posts what I want to say in a much clearer manner, the speed on which these conversations move, etc. etc.
This board is of such value to us lurkers, too, Just because we don't respond verbally doesn't mean we don't laugh, learn, pray, and cry with you all. I still miss Erin so much.
Anyway, maybe in another 10-15 years I'll make shipmate, but just know that I'm loving and praying for you as we are sailing on.
Mary Beth
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Give yourself fully to Jesus. He will use you to accomplish great things on the condition that you believe much more in His love, than in your weakness. Mother Teresa
Posts: 39 | From: Finger Lakes, NY | Registered: May 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Mary Beth - that is a very beautiful and loving post. Thank you.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kyzyl
Ship's dog
# 374
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Posted
I've been here 12 years and still do not have 500 posts. But I'll tell you, I'm on the ship just about every day reading,listening, watching (whoa, that sounds pretty creepy!) I can say that in my experience this is a far, far healthier place than most of the sites I frequent.
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I need a quote.
Posts: 668 | From: Wapasha's Prairie | Registered: Jun 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mary Beth:
I'm one of those long time members, mostly non-poster.
I signed up just after Hurricane Joanne and have been blessed by this site for many years, now. Blessed by real life friendships and an ever increasing growth in my life - spiritual and secular (although I don't see much separation there).
It's hard to say why I don't post. A basic shy personality, somebody always posts what I want to say in a much clearer manner, the speed on which these conversations move, etc. etc.
This board is of such value to us lurkers, too, Just because we don't respond verbally doesn't mean we don't laugh, learn, pray, and cry with you all. I still miss Erin so much.
Anyway, maybe in another 10-15 years I'll make shipmate, but just know that I'm loving and praying for you as we are sailing on.
Mary Beth
That reminds me ... If you look in Glory, you'll see Ruth W2. Ruth never posted, but she read the Ship avidly and talked about it fondly regularly to friends and family.
After she died, her sister got in touch as she assumed that as she'd talked about the Ship so often, she'd be well known and have a post to rival Chorister's or Ken's. But no. God bless Ruth and everyone like her.
Tubbs
[ 20. September 2013, 18:20: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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S. Bacchus
Shipmate
# 17778
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Posted
I hope the comments of a relative n00b will be accepted in the spirit in which they were intended, so let me say this.
The Ship is probably the most rigourously vigourously moderated board I've come across. Sometimes I've thought a a lighter touch wouldn't go amiss, but I think on the whole that this level of moderation keeps the discussion from degenerating to the depths of hell, which is all too common online.
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'It's not that simple. I won't have it to be that simple'.
Posts: 260 | Registered: Jul 2013
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