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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hard Times
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
After browsing for some time I plucked up the courage to register and post, knowing that I was nowhere near the level of intellectual prowess of a lot of posters, but appreciative of their ability and ready to keep learning. I throw in my two penneth, usually thoughts in flight, and often the conversation carries on above my head or it tails off and everyone moves on to the next thread that takes their fancy. That's OK. It's good.
I hope I don't come across as smug or superior. In fact, the honesty here gives me to think that someone would tell me so in no uncertain terms if I do. I didn't come here so that people would be nice to me. It's not about that - although the threads on All Saints show that there are some very caring and kind posters on this Ship. It's about the topic in hand. If it does get personal, Hell is the right place for the heat, if it gets boring it dies, if it gets never-ending and circular it goes to dead horses.
I hope and pray that the Ship carries on sailing. As others have said, I see more different views here to mull over than I could find anywhere else.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
That feeling isn't unusual. The Ship is the one place on God's Green Earth where I don't consider myself an Alpha (or at least a Beta+) Dog. I work with some very smart, legally trained, engineers and scientists but the folk here are smarter and sharper still. Through persistence on my part and avoidance of topics that are way beyond me, I've grown to love this place and learn a lot from it.
Ditto. I have an LLB honours degree plus post-grad professional qualifications and yet there are people here who can run rings around me faster than you can say 'graduate dunce'.
and since we're going there, for the record and for the people who feel this place is too intellectually rigorous or something - join in. do your best. get sand kicked in your face and keep getting up again and scrapping on. We're not all highly qualified.
I hold my own around here. I'm a high school drop out.
it's all about your attitude, your openness, and your willingness to learn.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668
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Posted
I just lost a longer post because I didn't have it saved in a notepad! Shorter version is that I love the ship, lurking or contributing (and I have gone through phases with both) and I would just say to anyone join in and I think you will find it is less intimidating than you think. Sure there are clever people here. Clever doesn't always mean right but the best thing about this community is that there is so much to learn from each other.
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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness
Posts: 884 | From: Where the Art is. | Registered: Jun 2004
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I'd like to echo what a lot of people have said; I've never found anything on the Ship that I'd call "intellectual smugness" - if I had it would probably have scared me witless. The boards I frequent the most - All Saints, Heaven and the Circus - are about as scary as a big cuddly teddy-bear, which suits me just fine.
I've only met a couple of Shipmates in Real Life™ (one of whom is my husband), but I regard those with whom I have contact as friends, and one can't really have too many of those. I like the feeling of having the goodwill of people on the other side of the planet whom you've never met, whether it's condolences on a bereavement or expressions of delight when something good happens.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
and since we're going there, for the record and for the people who feel this place is too intellectually rigorous or something - join in. do your best. get sand kicked in your face and keep getting up again and scrapping on. We're not all highly qualified.
I hold my own around here. I'm a high school drop out.
it's all about your attitude, your openness, and your willingness to learn.
Well I had no idea until just now that Comet was a high school dropout, and it doesn't change how I feel about her. She is (as should be obvious to any but the blindest of bats) a valued member here, and when she posts, it's almost always worth reading.
There are arguments where people who are very erudite are arguing things that may be beyond your (generic) frame of reference. That may mean you're better off reading and not jumping into the argument there. I tend to stay out of arguments that require a knowledge, say, of Bultmann and Barth and all that crowd. But that doesn't make that thread intellectually smug. Just not one I'm likely to contribute much to. The ship is all things to all people, or at least a goodly number of people, but that doesn't mean that every single thread has to be all things to all people.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
There are those very long-time shipmates who read often, but do not post. There also are a lot who post on the Caption board, whose names you never see elsewhere.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Plique-à-jour
Shipmate
# 17717
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Computergeek not only crashed the party, they'd been ejected from it once before. That said, it's an interesting discussion and worth continuing.
Tubbs
Styx host
Thought it was him.
Before I got to this post where you confirmed my suspicion, this is what I had put my suspicion aside to write:
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quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
No, someone suggested that I should take myself and my reasonable question elsewhere as you guys are all too clever for me.
That's not what I said. What I said was intended to be helpful, harsh as it may have sounded. If you are a new, orthodox Protestant believer, a lot of what people will say here with the intention of being helpful isn't going to be helpful at all. When you're new, you want a list of what you're expected to believe, I know; you want firm statements of faith, which is what you explicitly asked for. Many people here are not going to give you that, and wouldn't think they should.
The way I put it was prejudical. My defence is that A: it seemed like the right language for where you seemed to me to be coming from, and B:
--
- how I was going to phrase B I can't remember. It was going to be about the discussion I'd just come from when I posted my advice, followed by an apology. I'm posting this fragment now because the apology was, in any case, going to have been more to the community rather than to the ostensibly hurt computergeek, whose misrepresentation of my post I thought petty, even assuming good faith.
I'm sorry I didn't express my concern in more temperate language.
[ 21. September 2013, 06:08: Message edited by: Plique-à-jour ]
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Posts: 333 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Jun 2013
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
and since we're going there, for the record and for the people who feel this place is too intellectually rigorous or something - join in. do your best. get sand kicked in your face and keep getting up again and scrapping on. We're not all highly qualified.
I hold my own around here. I'm a high school drop out.
it's all about your attitude, your openness, and your willingness to learn.
Well I had no idea until just now that Comet was a high school dropout, and it doesn't change how I feel about her. She is (as should be obvious to any but the blindest of bats) a valued member here, and when she posts, it's almost always worth reading.
thanks for that. to be fair, I'm also a college drop out. no staying power, me. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) BUT - I have a love of learning, which led me here and kept me here, even if I have no diploma to my name.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I hold my own around here. I'm a high school drop out. it's all about your attitude, your openness, and your willingness to learn.
Hmm. You lack neither brains, nor confidence, nor vocabulary. Sorry, but you will not work as example for the Ship including the mentally poor...
Now that leo has mentioned it though, it is interesting that we have quite a few atheists, but not many Muslims. Or Jews. Or Hindus. Or Jains. Or anything other than ... Buddhists. This place is reflecting a particular slice of Western society. It's not quite "white middle class", but something rather like it, I suspect. Perhaps some Shipmate with sociological credentials can be more precise about that.
I'm not sure that that appeal can or should be widened though. The Internet is a rather merciless to ideals that do not correspond to people's habits.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
IIRC, when I was a lurker, or shortly after I joined, there was a survey of Shipmates academic qualifications. I was below average with degrees in law and history but no post-grad qualifications.
I'm a bit hazy about the details though, anyone else remember this?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
It could have easily been a Circus poll. I don't remember it.
I remember a survey of religious affiliation at one point, of both contributers and lurkers on the boards and for the main magazine. Though I can't find that at the moment (I'm sure it isn't my memory playing up, though there is a possibility it is) but there was (naturally) a majority of people reading the Ship from a Christian background but a large minority of atheists and agnostics (many with Church backgrounds) and other religions. Quite a high proportion of people employed in the church (minister etc)
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
Maybe weshould have a Ship of Fools Inclusive Day for the thick people.
Thick person puts hand up.
I have dyslexia and ADHD, I'm very articulate verbally but find it hard to communicate in print. My education goes as far as Postgraduate Diploma but I found that incredibly difficult and challenging. Many people here are way, way above my head intellectually.
I have always felt included here.
Quite often my posts get completely ignored - but that's because I've jumped in with an irrelevant comment, not because people are deliberately ignoring me.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I have always felt included here.
Quite often my posts get completely ignored - but that's because I've jumped in with an irrelevant comment, not because people are deliberately ignoring me. [/QB]
I've had a similar experience.
Often, I come upon a new thread when it is already full of posts. Sometimes the thread has already whittled itself down to a few posters (I think of them fondly as "the usual suspects") engaged in a rather passionate give-and-take among themselves.
I appreciate the high level of intellectual commitment that many of the most active posters -- in Purgatory for instance -- bring to this Board. Even more, I love the intensity, sheer concentration that many members devote to the topics discussed here.
There are a multitude of ways to define one's position on the Ship. After a few missteps in the beginning, I arrived at a pattern of adjustment that works for me: read, think, check out links if it seems desirable, go to my book shelves and to Google, all the while debating internally. Then post only if I find that the thread has helped me to a new level of understanding about what is being discussed. Then I jump in, make my point, and quickly jump out.
The Ship works on so many different levels. Thanks to the frequent posters -- some brilliant, only a few "thick," but mostly in-between -- who keep providing the content (and the sense that this stuff really IS important) that makes it worth while for the rest of us to keep coming back.
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
Maybe weshould have a Ship of Fools Inclusive Day for the thick people.
Thick person puts hand up.
I have dyslexia and ADHD, I'm very articulate verbally but find it hard to communicate in print. My education goes as far as Postgraduate Diploma but I found that incredibly difficult and challenging. Many people here are way, way above my head intellectually.
I have always felt included here.
It was because of a post on the Ship, back in 2009, that I first suspected I was on the autism spectrum. Within two years I had a diagnosis from a specialist clinical psychologist confirming that suspicion. So coming to the Ship has made a significant change in my life. And I enjoy the freedom of hearing Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, and various Protestant standpoints - right across the theological spectrum. I don't know whether I feel included, but I do feel intellectually stimulated (and yes, I do have post-grad qualifications - philosophy).
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1522 | From: Dharawal Country | Registered: Mar 2005
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kyzyl:
I've been here 12 years and still do not have 500 posts.
You were the Ship's longest standing apprentice for a veeeeeerrrrrry long time. I think I remember standing ovations on the occasion of your 51st post ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
With Ariston running close, I think. Not too many greybeards around anymore. Well Moo's not a greybeard, but...
That's blown my chances of becoming a host.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Dal Segno
al Fine
# 14673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Plique-à-jour:
quote:
Originally posted by computergeek:
No, someone suggested that I should take myself and my reasonable question elsewhere as you guys are all too clever for me.
That's not what I said.
FWIW, that's not what I said either. No-one suggested that we guys are "all too clever". We did suggest that you seek support elsewhere, rather than depending completely on the Ship. That seems to be a supportive suggestion rather than a problem...
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
We're not all highly qualified.
I hold my own around here. I'm a high school drop out.
it's all about your attitude, your openness, and your willingness to learn.
...and I would bet that most shipmates wouldn't survive an evening trying to do Comet's real-life job.
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Yet ever and anon a trumpet sounds
Posts: 1200 | From: Pacific's triple star | Registered: Mar 2009
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
... Thick person [with] Postgraduate Diploma ...
Oh dear - with nothing but (moderately decent) school qualifications and a secretarial certificate that puts me somewhere between "amoeba" and "idiot".
To quote one of the Peers from Iolanthe:
quote:
I've nothing against brains; I have a great deal of respect for brains. I often wish I had some myself.
I still don't feel intimidated posting on the Ship - maybe I ought to try Purgatory some time ... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
... Thick person [with] Postgraduate Diploma ...
Oh dear - with nothing but (moderately decent) school qualifications and a secretarial certificate that puts me somewhere between "amoeba" and "idiot".
Why? There are people with doctorates who are frankly a bit stupid, and there are people who didn't finish school who are very bright. Level of educational qualification does not necessarily equate to level of intelligence.
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
I think there is plenty to say about the Ship, not least as someone once said, it contains several different communities. As mainly a lurker, I can't claim to know those communities well or be a part of them, but whatever my two cents may be worth in times of intellectual inflation, here they are.
I think in some ways (possibly mainly in the discussion-based forums) the Ship has an almost libertarian expectation of each individual to hold their own. Act at your own peril. Rules are given, it's your individual responsibity to know them. Add to the discussion or stay silent. If you disagree with something, stand your ground or concede defeat. Expect brutal honesty and very skilled wordsmithery from your opponents, and to be able to oppose that, or face the consequences. It's your own fault if you let words get to you, but you are given a chance to use pretty much whatever words you please in an attempt to get to others as well (in Hell). Be prepared to face the consequences of whatever you do, and thus make sure to calculate them before-hand.
I think that in some regards, these (and other principles I've missed out on) set up an ideal type of a poster with certain characteristics:
- Self-confident and secure in themselves
- Very sharp wits and far-reaching sense of the consequences of one's thoughts and words
- A highly functional ability to put thoughts into words accurately
- An ability to wield humour well
Whereas people may differ from this type to certain degrees, I think those that lack too much of some of these characteristics may feel that the Ship does not give them a fair battleground. This seems similar to how people lacking certain basic skills (such as adequate education or social capital, et c) will indeed be left behind in a libertarian society. I may be projecting my own issues unto others here, and I apologise if I do. Still, I think the Ship can trigger strong emotional kickbacks in people who disagree but lack these essential means for the Ship arena to stand their ground. (For me personally this emotional kickback has meant triggering an attempt to grow in several areas where I've perceived myself to be broken for many reasons. Still, it has been a painful ride at times, and it's possible that the ship could provide somewhat more gentleness in order to alleviate the pain while adaptation is happening.)
I am not sure what other ways there could be or which kind of social structure is optimal for a board, but I think we should be aware of the consequences of this one, if it is there. Some people do get alienated, but it's possible that it is necessary. Personally, I still think that should be considered unfortunate, although I may be throwing pearls before swine. I'm losing perspective of the consequences of my words, and will according to my own logic leave the space open to others.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Thank you JFH, I found that quite thought provoking.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mary Beth:
This board is of such value to us lurkers, too, Just because we don't respond verbally doesn't mean we don't laugh, learn, pray, and cry with you all. I still miss Erin so much.
I don't post much any more, but I still read the boards nearly every day. I definitely agree with this ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dal Segno:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
We're not all highly qualified.
I hold my own around here. I'm a high school drop out.
it's all about your attitude, your openness, and your willingness to learn.
...and I would bet that most shipmates wouldn't survive an evening trying to do Comet's real-life job.
possibly not, but I have to be honest- I'm not currently tending bar, I'm teaching and coaching Drama and Debate. whole different skillset, but with a lot of overlap!
Which leads me to address JFH's points, which are excellent.
I agree, not all Ship Veterans came here possessing all the skills it takes to thrive in this environment. I didn't. My first couple of months here, I was driven to tears by what some people said. I was lacking the confidence piece. But the stubbornness piece I have in abundance so I stuck around and learned. I did the typical rookie thing and posted my (lack of) knowledge all over the boards, and had my ass handed to me more than once. So then I learned to shut up and LISTEN.
Now I post in places I have something to contribute, and just read my way through in those areas I don't. and it's been a huge learning experience.
if the current me were to go back in time to the me of September 2006 (hey, 7 years!) I'd probably bow out of some of the things I chimed in about. I'd probably admit my own ignorance more readily when challenged. But I'd also challenge some of the bullshit that was spouted at me, that I took at face value because it came from what the Quakers would call a "weighty member" of the community. I've gotten much better at parsing the actual knowledge from the smug bullshit.
Yesterday my debate team and I had our big brainstorming session for our next debate resolution. I realized, standing there and leading the discussion, that at least 75% of the skills I bring as a coach and instructor of debate come from the Ship. And those skills are strong. But I got them from here. from shutting up, watching, and learning.
So I'd hope that new folks who show up and feel they are drowning in our system here would watch and learn and keep getting back up and fighting on. it's worth it.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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