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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Greenbelt 40 - August Bank Holiday, Cheltenham
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Mark Oakley on R S Thomas was the loveliest, deepest thing I've heard in years.
Sorry I didn't manage to meet any other Shippies.
He was also tremendous on a particular Dead Horse on Monday morning.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
We'll be leaving after lunch and staying at the travel lodge tonight. If anyone sees a short plump middle aged woman with woolly dreads, that'll be me ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Heavenly Anarchist, I might have spotted you queueing at Callum's Coffee one afternoon - though wasn't 100 per cent sure so chickened out of saying hello.
Saw very few Ship folk around the site this year - apart from Tractor Girl, Pants Esmeralda, Poppy and Arrietty briefly - not even in passing, I was quite surprised.
Jade - I searched G Source for the SCM stall and couldn't find it, only to spot it on Mon afternoon, right next to the TSSF stall where I'd been helping earlier in the festival! Maybe I need new specs. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Karl - spotted someone with an Order of The Black Sheep T shirt in the queue for The Sanctuary where I was working, but he definitely didn't match up to your description of yourself - far too young for a start!
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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Auntie Doris
Screen Goddess
# 9433
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Posted
The Boxettes were brilliant. Highlight of the festival for me.
Auntie Doris x
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"And you don't get to pronounce that I am not a Christian. Nope. Not in your remit nor power." - iGeek in response to a gay-hater :)
The life and times of a Guernsey cow
Posts: 6019 | From: The Rock at the Centre of the Universe | Registered: May 2005
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
Saw many people, though not many shipmates. I recall Miffy (who was staffing the venue the Franciscans (anglican religious communities) were in on Monday, Ken (in the Jesus Arms) and Orb ( also in the Jesus arms).
Was a good festival with some great memories
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Miffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
We'll be leaving after lunch and staying at the travel lodge tonight. If anyone sees a short plump middle aged woman with woolly dreads, that'll be me
Heavenly Anarchist, I might have spotted you queueing at Callum's Coffee one afternoon - though wasn't 100 per cent sure so chickened out of saying hello.
Saw very few Ship folk around the site this year - apart from Tractor Girl, Pants Esmeralda, Poppy and Arrietty briefly - not even in passing, I was quite surprised.
Jade - I searched G Source for the SCM stall and couldn't find it, only to spot it on Mon afternoon, right next to the TSSF stall where I'd been helping earlier in the festival! Maybe I need new specs.
Karl - spotted someone with an Order of The Black Sheep T shirt in the queue for The Sanctuary where I was working, but he definitely didn't match up to your description of yourself - far too young for a start!
Oh don't worry, none of our signs actually had our logo on so we had to do emergency signage - although our stand was covered in SCM hoodies and t-shirts ![[Biased]](wink.gif) I only briefly visited the TSSF stand myself though, didn't get to speak to many other organisations aside from Cuddesdon (and Speak who were the other side of us, but Speak along with FOR and Christian Aid do so much with us anyway that I knew everyone there!).
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
We got back last night, it was lovely to catch up with friends we've not seen for far too long (I was particularly pleased that Yangtze joined us for Eliza Carthy & Jim Moray), and to put a few more faces to ship names (Jade, Lucia and Schroedinger's Cat - who I then kept seeing at a distance but never managed to be near enough to say hello to again). There were also a lot of people I know were there but didn't manage to see - I guess that's just the nature of things.
Not a classic GB for me, I thought the programme was a bit thin compared to other years, but I still managed to have a nice time (despite the usual first night festival rituals of losing the tent and having to wander round in the dark and rain trying to find it, and then the mattress deflating. This is why I was rock'n'roll and was in bed by 9 the next night!). I absolutely loved Why? which I think was my highlight. My lowlight was ikon - did anyone else go to that? I'd never been to one of their services before but knew that they were a bit 'out there' and was prepared for something a bit out of the ordinary - so many people I know had seen them in previous years and raved about them I thought I'd try and see what the fuss was about. I'm still wondering - that's an hour of my life I'm never getting back. Maybe I'm just getting old...
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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welsh dragon
Shipmate
# 3249
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Posted
hello, we had a very good time, we were sorry to miss the Black Motorcycle Club but it was Just Too Late for the kids as was Duke Special. Nonetheless, Son of Dave (who is 5) has decided that he loooves Greenbelt.
We met quite a few people from the Ship.. but then, we did stay at the Premier Inn.
Posts: 5352 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Well I think overall, there was less that I really enjoyed this year, but there were somethings that I would mark as some of my all time best experiences of Greenbelt.
And I managed to meet up with a bunch of you, which was great. It is always good to put faces to names, and it reminds me that there are actual people behind the avatars.
Highlights - Milton Jones, so good. So funny and so right-on with his talk, I thought. The idea that he has his job, and his faith is shown through his work. Also Grace Petrie and The Temperance Movement - both excellent performances, both artists I would go to see again.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Miffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
We'll be leaving after lunch and staying at the travel lodge tonight. If anyone sees a short plump middle aged woman with woolly dreads, that'll be me
Heavenly Anarchist, I might have spotted you queueing at Callum's Coffee one afternoon - though wasn't 100 per cent sure so chickened out of saying hello.
Could be, I do like my coffee.
I've very sorry I didn't make the meet, a complete timing fail on my part as I thought the kids' thing I was in would only last half an hour and we'd get to the tea tent afterwards but it was way over an hour long and very tedious indeed! We didn't get out til past 5pm.
I do think I might have spoken to Karl inadvertently though, in the queue for the Playhouse on Saturday. Was it your son advising on the use of the Diabolo? It didn't occur to me until afterwards by which time you had gone - I recognised you from when I had my stall (if indeed it was you and not some random other person I remember). I was the lady with rust coloured dreads who spoke to you.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I don't think the music was as good this year on main stage, though I did enjoy the performance cafe (I also saw Grace Petrie) and liked the new venue with wine bar. There seemed less drama and dance than usual, one of my favourite Greenbelt things, I suspect due to an expansion of children's performances. I did enjoy the Hip Hop Shakespeare Company and would have liked more of that.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by Miffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
We'll be leaving after lunch and staying at the travel lodge tonight. If anyone sees a short plump middle aged woman with woolly dreads, that'll be me
Heavenly Anarchist, I might have spotted you queueing at Callum's Coffee one afternoon - though wasn't 100 per cent sure so chickened out of saying hello.
Could be, I do like my coffee.
I've very sorry I didn't make the meet, a complete timing fail on my part as I thought the kids' thing I was in would only last half an hour and we'd get to the tea tent afterwards but it was way over an hour long and very tedious indeed! We didn't get out til past 5pm.
I do think I might have spoken to Karl inadvertently though, in the queue for the Playhouse on Saturday. Was it your son advising on the use of the Diabolo? It didn't occur to me until afterwards by which time you had gone - I recognised you from when I had my stall (if indeed it was you and not some random other person I remember). I was the lady with rust coloured dreads who spoke to you.
No, wasn't me. Random Other Person
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by Miffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly Anarchist:
We'll be leaving after lunch and staying at the travel lodge tonight. If anyone sees a short plump middle aged woman with woolly dreads, that'll be me
Heavenly Anarchist, I might have spotted you queueing at Callum's Coffee one afternoon - though wasn't 100 per cent sure so chickened out of saying hello.
Could be, I do like my coffee.
I've very sorry I didn't make the meet, a complete timing fail on my part as I thought the kids' thing I was in would only last half an hour and we'd get to the tea tent afterwards but it was way over an hour long and very tedious indeed! We didn't get out til past 5pm.
I do think I might have spoken to Karl inadvertently though, in the queue for the Playhouse on Saturday. Was it your son advising on the use of the Diabolo? It didn't occur to me until afterwards by which time you had gone - I recognised you from when I had my stall (if indeed it was you and not some random other person I remember). I was the lady with rust coloured dreads who spoke to you.
No, wasn't me. Random Other Person
I will try to not forever picture you now as random other person from the ship who once bought from my stall ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Missed TTT meeting as I was about two and a half hours out of synch with clock time (literally - I went to what I thought was a 2.30 talk and only found out later it had been at 12.00)
Saw quite a few shipmates - at least a dozen - but most only in passing.
Highlight of the festival this year: shapenote singing.
Also Beer and Hymns was wonderful, tho in its new rather more organised and formal format it has come a long way from the spontaneous singalong all those years ago. As so often it was easily the worship highlight of the festival for me. By far and away the most spiritual thing going.
I never know what shape my trajectory through a festival like this is going to be before it happens. With the shapenote singings and B&H, and the Big Sing, and singing along to LCGC and Graham Kendrick, and the retro choruses at the Communion, and the Taize evening prayer, this was a singing Greenbelt. Really quite wonderful.
And of course, Garth Hewitt sings the Chartist Hymbook! Unmissable.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
One comment from this year is how expensive it was. I spent some 50% more than I expected to, and actually ran out of money.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by welsh dragon:
Oh hello, that might have been us [grin]
Was that in reply to me? if so, hello there and I wish I had introduced myself!
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
My shop
Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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welsh dragon
Shipmate
# 3249
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Posted
AH, I think we would have liked a lot of those, Ken - that is Dave and I, not the littlies. I have encountered the Sacred Harp stuff before - is that what you mean by Shapenote? - and would have like to have gone to that, but we were running around after toddlers in the Orchard at the time. The Gospel choir was just a bit late for the kiddies and we didn't reckon on being able to entertain them and keep them quiet through the Big Sing (which is a shame because I think Dave would have loved to get to that again). Likewise Beer and Hymns, I don't think they are up to appreciating Wesley yet.
We did really enjoy some of the Mainstage stuff though, great having it at lunchtime, so the kids could run around in the sunshine while we listened. And I was pleased that the communion service started so late that we could listen in from the car park as we trudged to the service at toddler's pace.
Posts: 5352 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002
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Auntie Doris
Screen Goddess
# 9433
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Posted
I think I had a conversation with Son of Dave most mornings at breakfast. He's a very entertaining little chap.
Like Jack the Lass I wasn't that enamored with the line-up, especially on the Sunday when I just felt there wasn't anything I wanted to go to. I ended up having a sleep in the Orchard as I just couldn't keep my eyes open!
Auntie Doris x
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"And you don't get to pronounce that I am not a Christian. Nope. Not in your remit nor power." - iGeek in response to a gay-hater :)
The life and times of a Guernsey cow
Posts: 6019 | From: The Rock at the Centre of the Universe | Registered: May 2005
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Wasn't Sunday the Temperance Movement and Black Rebel Motorcycle Club? Best night of the festival that one. My only problem was Martyn Joseph overlapped with the latter so I didn't hear the whole BRMC set.
Heard the practicing from Mainstage for the communion service and that was enough to deter me. I'm no fan of Graham Kendrick but he hasn't done anything to deserve what I heard them doing to the Servant King. Haven't been to a GB mainstage communion since Methuselah started shaving TBH; well, not for more than ten minutes before running screaming.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
One comment from this year is how expensive it was. I spent some 50% more than I expected to, and actually ran out of money.
Jesus Arms.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
We went, spending most of our time in the play house, orchard and the village hall. The only grown up sessions I went to we're lcgc (who were awesome) and the what women want one. Good festival, not what I had expected. Tried to make the meet, but had promised to take a little to the village hall...
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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Uriel
Shipmate
# 2248
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
One comment from this year is how expensive it was. I spent some 50% more than I expected to, and actually ran out of money.
The food stalls were very expensive this year, so I did a couple of evening trips to Sainsburys to get fresh and comparatively much cheaper food for our group of happy campers. Saved a fortune, and will probably become part of our Greenbelt routine.
Otherwise, hung out with my kids a lot and largely ignored the programme, as usual. A great weekend.
Posts: 687 | From: Somerset, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
They were expensive, but they always have been. I don't think they were any worse this year than previous years.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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welsh dragon
Shipmate
# 3249
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Posted
Oh and we really missed the Nuts cafe, we were going into salad withdrawal.
Posts: 5352 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by welsh dragon:
Oh and we really missed the Nuts cafe, we were going into salad withdrawal.
I would have loved a salad stand! Actually some kind of farmer's market stand would be wonderful for those doing their own cooking - pasta, stews, dhal etc is easy to do with tinned and storecupboard items but tinned veg is horrid! Maybe we need a camping cookery thread in Heaven next year
Breakfast is easy to DIY though - cereal bars, apples, oranges, bananas, cereal (frozen milk in the cool bag or powdered milk if no cool bag), cartons of juice and tea/coffee. Those little pots of fruit in juice are good too. I only had breakfast from a food stand once and Jenn bought me that!
Will maybe be adventurous next time and do my own cooking! Will have to have at least one trip to the Tibetan Kitchen if it's still there though.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
Well I enjoyed my 12th Greenbelt and the 30th anniversary of the first one I went to! We were in a rented campervan again and Baby Spouse enjoyed it more than he had previously. I now have excellent calf muscles too, I think I walked about 5 miles a day, mainly pushing the buggy.
I met quite a few old lags properly, I saw Carys in the distance and had a couple of "hellooo! Must Dash!" encounters too. Of those who I at least recognise, I didn't spot ken at all but I believe he was there.
I was also a bit disappointed by the music, I would have really liked to see Eliza Carthy and Dukes Special but they were just too late for our earlier to bed child, but I and he both enjoyed Boxettes and Folk On, and happily also Carrie Rodriguez and Thea Gilmore with afternoon sets in the Performance Cafe.
Weather was more or less perfect, and I also had a good nearly-nap in a contemplative prayer session, and a good Big Sing. I think I probably broke the record for least number of sessions attended but that's not surprising with a small baby and a volunteering spouse.
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This space left intentionally blank. Do not write on both sides of the paper at once.
Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
chukovsky - it was excellent to finally meet you, having known you on the ship for many years. Putting a face to the name after 10+ years is great!
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And of course, Garth Hewitt sings the Chartist Hymbook! Unmissable.
That was a highlight for me, too, coming from Newport. May try to work out how to get them into the commemoration service for the Chartist anniversary in November...
PS chukovsky - I managed to sleep on the Grandstand steps listening to a talk, and I have no such excuse!
[ 31. August 2013, 20:15: Message edited by: Rev per Minute ]
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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scuffleball
Shipmate
# 16480
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Posted
So - I think it might be okay to speak a little personally here?
Greenbelt was what I needed. Not what was comfortable - in fact it was distinctively uncomfortable - but what I needed lest I be lulled along "the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts" into a sort of white, middle-class, heteronormative, patriarchal existence in some suburban semi. I suppose you could call it the agency of the Holy Ghost. I suppose there are more mundane explanations for it too.
And so, I suppose I rediscovered where I came from, from a tradition of dissent, for one can dissent within the C. of E. and there has been dissent therein.
You see, having spent time at university I had been largely heard complaints that Greenbelt was both aesthetically unpleasing and heretical, and I had come to believe it on both points, much like this -
And so I came to learn that perhaps there was more heresy in you or I than we admit at times. And as for aesthetics, you see, Greenbelt may not be pictureesque but it is certainly grounded in the here and now; count the number of times you hear "incarnational"! You see, Greenbelt is more than a church about keeping its cogs turning, about a church that is relevant to its own time and place, about a church that is fundamentally relational.
And perhaps the church must thus forgo the privilege of aesthetics, much as it must forego other privileges too, like civic religion. I have been reading a lot of Garrison Keillor of late - it is interesting to see his description of growing up in a tradition of seeing civic religion as pharisaical, and how religion aught to be told rather than shown. And perhaps he is right, in a way. You see - what Keillor likewise stands for is "No Splits" - that the perfect expression of Christianity is more deeds than "thoughts of compassion divorced from cries of pain."
And much like Bill Bryson leaving the Bradford IMAX after "This is Cinerama" and stepping into the rain and looking for a curry, so I feel strange leaving it, to a town in a phase of transition whose civic institutions seem to be maintained by those who have moved on from it and find myself wondering - "so now what?"
So many tunes there are still in my head -
"I shall not turn against my brother
For his creed or for his colour
Nor the one he takes his lover
Or his class
You that beckon me that way, you shall not pass" from Grace Petrie,
the Chartist Hymnal of Garth Hewitt,
and those from the Big Sing -
"O bless the Lord and never forget his love,"
"As long as we live, there is a future for creation,"
"The truth that sets us free,"
"Alleluia praise the Lord, Praises, High Praises"
I'm still not sure whether it is racist cultural appropriation for white people to sit around singing African songs; it seems a thin line from that to white people dressing up in Nigerian clothes for a Kwanzaa party. But I already started a thread on that I guess.
Ken said that
quote:
A lot of what you see at Greenbelt (a lot of what you see on this website) seems to be based on the idea that the churches are more socially and politically conservative than they in fact are. (I'm talking about politics here, not theology). So, as someone said, people feel radical or alternative just by turning up, But in fact they are expressing views that are pretty mainstream.
Okay - try standing up in the pulpit and say the sort of thing you hear at Greenbelt about the Wall in Palestine, or about the fact that irrespective of what you think about same-sex marriage or sexual activity, that perhaps the church has a responsibility to include people who are attracted to people of the same sex rather than making them too frightened to admit the fact publicly, vel. sim. for immigrants, or something to do with the housing crisis and homelessness in London.
Or try singing "Inspired by Love and Anger" or "The Truth that Sets us Free" in church, or any Iona Song that suggests people might have faith through spiritual doubt or that challenges the social order as well in a political sense as a spiritual one, for I have never seen these things done.
And I'm not sure Ken's Anglicanism-as-Shinto is quite as dead as we think either - at university I did encounter a fair few people who were baptised and went to public schools where they got confirmed because, well, that's what "decent people" do, and heard a sort of Christianity-and-Water at their school chapel, and continued to go to chapel at university by reflex. So Anglicanism-as-Shinto isn't quite dead, but it persists in the middle-class.
One thing that I love about Greenbelt is the "No Splits" - the idea that the the church is too broad to be trapped in a spiritual box. Because even in England, not to mention the US, the church has a horrid business of doing "Othering" - treating society as an "us and them" type thing whereby the church slowly slides into a social club with Jesus tacked on. And I'm not talking about churches of any particular denomination or colour. So often the church stands for an apathetical attitude to the existing social order, a sort of - "let's hum along and do things the way we always have. So what." I once heard someone say in the neighbourhood in which I grew up - "well there are so many non-white people in our neighbourhood I don't suppose they would want to go to our church."
It wasn't an expression of malice so much as bizarre ignorance - you could still probably call it racism. I often encounter opinions against the free movement of people and goods in Europe in that church from the congregants, and a lot of folk-music-nationalism from them too.
And yet the two things that prevailed from this were things that set it apart from the leftyness I knew at university -
- It refused to take part in Othering. There were not so much evil people - even bankers - as people who had ended up doing evil things through circumstance who could amend their lives and be forgiven. It worked always for the reconciliation of "us" and "them" rather than revenge and destruction of some perceived enemy.
- It was hopeful. In fact the enduring strain of Greenbelt was Hopeful. "As long as we live there is a future for creation, we know this; We know God's kingdom it will come." It was not resigned to some learnt helplessness of whining about being oppressed without any view to transforming society; it did not get lulled into preserving the dichotomy of what Frère Maxime called the "wolves and sheep." It was being the change that it wanted to see in the world.
The entire thing seemed a little less radical than before - no Philys Tickle, no Brian McLaren, no Billy Bragg, no Accord, far less Transcendence and enChant. But there were more people and smaller venues due to the mud issue on Centre Course so they were all very crowded. It all seemed very chaotic - Taizé overran by 15 minutes calibrating the sound system. Having to cancel going to Taizé at the last minute, it was good to go to the prayers. And people there knew Taizé-the-place too - it seemed quite like the real place to me, short of silence posters, and I even saw a little Frère-Maxime-Clapping (let the reader understand). Unfortunately this meant I missed the Les Mis mass.
In fact, without Philys Tickle and her Band, but with Mark Oakley on a certain dead horse and the church times cartoons actually gave me hope about the church as an institution, even the C. of E. in its slowness to change. Perhaps Greenbelt yoyos a bit from one extreme to the other on this, whilst staying very much in the tradition of dissent.
I was sorry to have missed so much of 10x9, which unfortunately went unrecorded. Siku certainly knows his audience better than in '08 or '09 when he gave a talk along the lines of "manga is just a medium that can be as wholesome or unwholesome as any other," perhaps from an experience of more conservative-evangelical crowds, to which the reaction was a certain dull "well duh, we know that already." This time he gave a fascinating talk about universal narrative - it's a shame it wasn't recorded.
In fact, it was a shame that the long talk about universal narrative had to be cancelled due to personal reasons, as Greenbelt seems to be starting to get a hang of this as an idea, even in politics where it seemed previously to be a bit sluggish about moving away from the '70s one-size-fits-all template top-down model of changing politics through protest and parliament towards a more testimonial, narrative, community-organizing-based, paradigm-changing one - an equivalent of "Fresh Expressions" for politics, perhaps.
The meditative reflection on content creation vs consumption was an interesting one too. To a degree I am happy to be a content consumer - this is cheap with iPlayer and public libraries, and blogs (and this very chatroom!) help me to be discerning and seek out obscure content in a way I would have been unable to do so without the internet. Then there are the likes of Irina Rempt who draws and writes a little, but we have only seen a fraction of her content thus far, and I have written a little music that gets nowhere and no-one sees. So bee it.
Having said that, I still wonder whether the church has gotten to grips with the difference between recognizing the need of something to be done and recognizing the person in the community capable of doing it, though. The "Be Bold" attitude to evangelism certainly is useful in encouraging laypeople to take a part in evangelism but I sometimes wonder whether it leads to people doing rôles because they like volunteering, not because they are good at the rôle.
It was interesting to see "the Atheist church," that is, the Sunday Assembly as part of Last Orders. I thought it was interesting to see them introduced as "but we still think they need to Jesus" which may have been intended as a joke but was perhaps slightly uncharitable. As much as they claimed not to be a cult they did seem to have inherited a lot of the less palatable elements of charismatism - manufactured emotion ect. It certainly wasn't the wooly liberal humanism with syncretic cultural appropriation à la Unitarianism I was expecting though.
I kind of expected Clare Balding to be fairly run-of-the-mill and establishment after JLB's BBC-bashing, but turned out to be surprisingly thoughtful. I think she too was quite taken aback by the exact nature of Greenbelt. Hmm, lots of thoughts there about women and LGBTQ people in sport and broadcasting.
The namechecking of the decidedly transphobic Germaine Greer was a bit of a facepalmy moment for a supposedly LGBTQ-friendly place, though. Where have we come in 40 years? We're certainly far better at recognizing the environment, sure, and LGBTQ people and women. Our society has become perhaps more xenophobic*, anti-European, commericalized, aspirational**, classist and politically apathetic.
What for the future of Greenbelt?
- It would be nice to see more literature. Some, nay, the bulk of my best "Greenbelt Spontaneity Moments" have been in the poetry tent. On the top of my wish-list would be Garrison Keillor - he fits in well with the ethos of the place - Mainline Protestantism, politics arguably either Centre-Left or wet as you prefer, but definitely believing in the common Good, plus the whole thing about narrative. Not sure Greenbelt's budget stretches that far though - Wild Goose, maybe? Also it would be nice to have a fantasy author or two. There seems to have been a little overlap between Fantasy authors and Christianity (esp. Roman Catholicism, as discussed elsewhere on this chatroom.) It would be nice to have a back-and-forth with real authors about that.
- I miss the Poetry Slam, although I guess it needs somebody to compère it. Likewise, I hope the Folk Club stays around for good. Beer and Hymns was a bit weird this year but I guess with that many people it had to be a bit less interactive, and I'm glad they got back the hosts to do it at all. Good solid Methodist Harmonies too.
- It would be nice to hear Revd. Dr. Angus Ritchie to speak about Community Organizing etc. We have already had Maurice Glasman a lot on e.g. politics and the common good, and Rose Hudson-Wilkin on the inner-city church. So Angus Ritchie could combine all of this together.
*Note - not necessarily racist, though
**Becoming more aspirational has both positive and negative effects, mind.
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SPK: I also plan to create ... a Calvinist Ordinariate
ken: I thought it was called Taize?
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scuffleball
Shipmate
# 16480
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Posted
Also it's nice to see so much of the 2010 Big Sing has made it into the new Iona song book.
It was nice to see Greenbelt growing into a family of festivals - One in Scotland, one in the US and one in the West Bank, with rumors of a fifth in Canada.
Speaking of which, how refreshing to have the Canadians with us, whether or not SPK was one of them! Just - if you make a similar festival in Canada, could it please be ecumenical?
It was good to have them lead Sacred Harp too, even if their leader was so flustered by the numbers! I wouldn't be half-surprised if JLB had had a hand in that too - he put a form of Antioch - that he had extensively fiddled with, unfortunately - in Common Ground, and it fits in with his ethos of participatory singing. Ken - I could have been sat next to you.
Perhaps in future rather than two workshops and a scratchperformance we could possibly have a workshop for those who know very little music and a singthrough for those more familiar?
IIRC Økumenischer Kirchentag is something similar for the German-speaking world, with more focus on talks and liturgy. Maybe GB could touch base with them too? Irina Rempt had a FOSS stall there, interestingly - now how about that?! A FOSS Stall at Greenbelt!
[ 01. September 2013, 20:24: Message edited by: scuffleball ]
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SPK: I also plan to create ... a Calvinist Ordinariate
ken: I thought it was called Taize?
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Oh, I did meet some of the (very lovely) Canadians - some SCM Canada members were amongst them and joined us for our picnic. SCM Canada are incredibly cool ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
scuffleball
You mentioned some of the non-Christian speakers and groups at Greenbelt, and I'm a bit curious about them. Obviously, they've been invited because the organisers feel they have something to say that Christians will be interested in. But what do you think these speakers themselves get out of Greenbelt (apart from their fee)? Why did the Atheist Church want to be there?
I've only been to Greenbelt once. It was enjoyable and interesting. A liberal alternative to the evangelical festivals, I suppose.
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
...Obviously, they've been invited because the organisers feel they have something to say that Christians will be interested in. ...
Not everyone attending Greenbelt is, or would define themselves as, Christian.
Had a great Greenbelt. Did a lot more worship / spiritual stuff this year. Loved the Chapel which I only found on the last evening.
Did have some lonely moments - as the friends who in years gone by would have texted or called to say 'where are you, we're doing XXX, let's meet up' by and large all have partners to do things with now and whilst they're happy to have me contact them and say 'I'm free what are you doing' or have me hang out with them if I happen to bump into them they don't proactively get in touch with me any more. I guess I'm going to have to learn to deal with this.
Highlights: beer and hymns, the talk on Benjamin Britten, meeting Clare Balding (briefly - I signed her in!)
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Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen
Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
First day back home from the Grand Tour of the South, taking in Greenbelt as its midpoint. We've now reached the stage where the Torlets are old enough to go around by themselves, and the friends we camp with had their church youth group and additional hangers-on, so we were about 20 in all.
It was my 28th Greenbelt. Back in the early 80s, we used to sleep till midday and camp out at mainstage for the music - I find myself increasingly back at mainstage as I approach my 50s. The set by the Black Rebel Motorcycle Club has to be the stand-out for me - filthy dirty beats, a wall of sonic grunge that made me feel like I needed a shower at the end. Fat and Frantic's 90 mins on the Monday was excellent, as were the couple of bands I caught at the Performance Cafe. I took in some talks - Milton Jones was brilliant, Steve Chalke unexpectedly good. Also unexpected was simply chatting with folk I'd never met over a cup of tea. A classic Greenbelt for me, taking me back to my distant youth...
quote:
Originally posted by scuffleball:
Also it would be nice to have a fantasy author or two. There seems to have been a little overlap between Fantasy authors and Christianity (esp. Roman Catholicism, as discussed elsewhere on this chatroom.) It would be nice to have a back-and-forth with real authors about that.
I do that most years, but was being 'rested' by the lit coordinator. It's not much trouble to wrassle up some authors and get them to talk - stopping them talking is much harder... I could suggest something for next year.
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Forward the New Republic
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
Forgot to mention you, Carys, sorry - though I tend not to think of you, Aelred, Poppy and Arietty as 'Ship,' folk any more.
Yangtze - I guess you were volunteering, as well. For goodness sakes next time get in touch with me beforehand - I'd be happy to meet up between shifts.
Chukovsky - Think I might have walked past you at one point -a gain not 100 per cent sure. If it's one of our venue's contemplative prayer sessions you nodded off in, I'm not surprised; it was like a sauna in there at times! You deserve a medal for bravery.
Highlights? None, really, I just enjoyed anything I managed to get to as a bonus. If pushed - Sue Pickering's first session about spirituality and ageing on the Fri evening was most useful. Must write up those notes. Barbara Brown Taylor, (shame there's no recording available); had a great chat with one of the Canadian group while we were waiting for her talk to start. Steve Chalke too, challenging would describe it best. Boy did I feel sorry for him afterwards with that long line of people lined up to grill him.
I managed to catch most of Christopher Jamieson's last talk on contemplative prayer as I was stewarding for that session. What an amazing sight - watching hundreds of people deep in meditation amidst all the noise and bustle. That'll stay in my memory for a long, long time.
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"I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue")
Growing Greenpatches
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
...Obviously, they've been invited because the organisers feel they have something to say that Christians will be interested in. ...
Not everyone attending Greenbelt is, or would define themselves as, Christian.
The website does describe it as a Christian festival, though. Perhaps it's likely to become less Christian in time, reaching out to a broad range of increasingly unaffiliated spiritualities.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
...Obviously, they've been invited because the organisers feel they have something to say that Christians will be interested in. ...
Not everyone attending Greenbelt is, or would define themselves as, Christian.
The website does describe it as a Christian festival, though. Perhaps it's likely to become less Christian in time, reaching out to a broad range of increasingly unaffiliated spiritualities.
The expression they often used is that it is Christian based festival of arts and music. the truth is, the foundation of the festival is Christian, but this is quite a broad term. There is no expectation that people coming will take the label Christian, or that the speakers will necessarily take that label.
What is significant is that the speakers have something to say to the issues of justice and faith. For those who come, there is also an expectation of not being judgemental towards others. There is an openness towards learning and growing.
The real difference between Greenbelt and the other festivals is that at Greenbelt, you can ask the questions like "Does God really exist?" and find people to discuss them with you. And also, you can get great music like Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, which was very powerful from the front row....
Greenbelt is the place you can say anything you want. And find people to discuss it passionately.
[ 03. September 2013, 16:19: Message edited by: Schroedinger's cat ]
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Greenbelt is the place you can say anything you want. And find people to discuss it passionately.
Rather like the internet, then.
For me its main appeal is simply that there are so many different things to do. My former minister likes it because he can take a break from ministering to others and be ministered to himself.
Greenbelt seems to fill a very interesting niche, that's for sure.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
SvitlanaV2 - the point is "discuss", with passion and intensity, but also openness. One of the problems with the internet, as a whole, is that you can find someone to disagree very easily, but finding people who will properly discuss is harder.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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So Greenbelt provides a better quality of sparring partner. That figures.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Miffy:
Forgot to mention you, Carys, sorry - though I tend not to think of you, Aelred, Poppy and Arietty as 'Ship,' folk any more.
[Grins] I nearly forgot you for similar reasons. You were in the TSSF block not the Ship block!
quote:
Chukovsky - Think I might have walked past you at one point -a gain not 100 per cent sure. If it's one of our venue's contemplative prayer sessions you nodded off in, I'm not surprised; it was like a sauna in there at times! You deserve a medal for bravery.
Indeed. At the WCCM I had to give up on my chair and lie on the floor where it was cooler otherwise all I was thinking was 'I'm too hot' which isn't the usual mantra! I found it much more bearable on the Monday thank goodness (seeing as I think all the things I did on Monday were in there!), though the fact that for the Franciscan ones I was sitting by the fire escape probably helped!
quote:
I managed to catch most of Christopher Jamieson's last talk on contemplative prayer as I was stewarding for that session. What an amazing sight - watching hundreds of people deep in meditation amidst all the noise and bustle. That'll stay in my memory for a long, long time.
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
[Posted by accident before I'd finished]
That was indeed an amazing session. Very powerful stuff. Am I right in thinking though that Sanctuary doesn't record anything? I wish it had been. I can remember a fair amount of the talk, but would love to repeat the prayer exercise.
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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scuffleball
Shipmate
# 16480
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
scuffleball
You mentioned some of the non-Christian speakers and groups at Greenbelt, and I'm a bit curious about them. Obviously, they've been invited because the organisers feel they have something to say that Christians will be interested in. But what do you think these speakers themselves get out of Greenbelt (apart from their fee)? Why did the Atheist Church want to be there?
I've only been to Greenbelt once. It was enjoyable and interesting. A liberal alternative to the evangelical festivals, I suppose.
In the interest of equal time, I suppose.
But I made the mistake of getting it into my head that GB was "about Christianity but not Christian per se" which couldn't be further from the truth.
Also, some people like Billy Bragg and Peter Tatchell who are usually quite antipathetic towards religion said it changed their perception of Christianity.
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SPK: I also plan to create ... a Calvinist Ordinariate
ken: I thought it was called Taize?
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jun 2011
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by scuffleball:
I made the mistake of getting it into my head that GB was "about Christianity but not Christian per se" which couldn't be further from the truth.
Can you explain what you mean?
quote:
Also, some people like Billy Bragg and Peter Tatchell who are usually quite antipathetic towards religion said it changed their perception of Christianity.
That's interesting. I imagine that many people, especially from working class backgrounds, normally have little if any exposure to radical liberal Christianity, and Greenbelt is one of the few places where that kind of Christianity feels brave enough to promote itself and engage a bit with popular culture.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Well - not Cheltenham.
I have booked myself into the Holiday Inn Express nearby for the weekend. In case any other shipmates want some luxury (comparative).
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I can commute! But being a sadsack who really loves the sound of rain on tent, I will be camping again, or dating someone with a trailer tent
Any recommendations for good beds for camping? My problem is that I like a firm bed which just doesn't seem to exist in an air bed.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Jenn.
Shipmate
# 5239
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Posted
The ground tends to be fairly firm. I just used a bedding roll :-)
Posts: 2282 | From: England | Registered: Nov 2003
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
Although the new venue is less than 7 miles from my parents' house, I've never been there, but it does look like a lovely site. We are most likely to go to Solas (as that's not too far from where we live), but depending on annual leave, other family commitments, and the GB lineup, this move does mean that GB next year is a possibility (like Jade we would camp too, but it does mean that if it chucks it down and the place becomes a swamp we have somewhere we can escape to!).
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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