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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: De-Americanisation
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
A few weeks ago, when the USA showed itself incapable of managing its own finances, the Chinese called for the “de-Americanisation” of the world. Apart from incompetence in financial management, we now see the USA has been spying on communications in friendly nations, kidnapping citizens in other sovereign nations, and now bumping off wanted men in other countries. Given that this nation seems to have a penchant for invading other nations on the flimsiest of provocation and is the only country in the entire world to have used nuclear weapons in times of war, would shipmates agree with the Chinese position?
Assuming it were possible to de-Americanise the world, what would replace it? Would a Chinese-ised, Europeanised or Islamised world be a better place? Or would we be better off without superpowers?
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Would a Chinese-ised... or Islamised world be a better place?
I can't see how these could in any way be better.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
The thing is, we've all bought into the Americanisation of the world even while tut-tutting and denouncing it. Our dress, our manners, our eating habits, entertainment and much, much else besides have all been informed by American cultural influences whether we like it or not.
Personally, I think there's a lot there to like, as well as much we need to distance ourselves from.
Where the draw the line or how we can untangle any of this is beyond me.
We've all benefited from the Pax Americana, although there are plenty around the world who have lost out by it too.
China's one to watch.
Would a Sinofied world or an Islamicised world would be preferable to an Americanised one?
Can't say I find either option that attractive.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Gamaliel: Would a Sinofied world or an Islamicised world would be preferable to an Americanised one?
Can't say I find either option that attractive.
My preference would be a Brazilianized world, but I guess that's no surprise ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Gamaliel: Would a Sinofied world or an Islamicised world would be preferable to an Americanised one?
Can't say I find either option that attractive.
My preference would be a Brazilianized world, but I guess that's no surprise
Compulsory waxing? No thanks.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
How about an Anglicised world?
No, that's already been tried ...
How about an Africanised one?
Or a Welshified one. That would be fun. Lots of Eisteddfodau.
What's not to like?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Gamaliel: Or a Welshified one. That would be fun. Lots of Eisteddfodau.
What's not to like?
I think you might find out that convincing the whole world to pronounce this weird letter where you pronounce an l and a g and blow out all at the same time will prove to be a bit hard.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
Finnish world. Then everyone could know the pleasures of having your own sauna and summer cabin and Finnish vodka.
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
As a woman, I can't say I find an Islamified world -- at least one with shar'ia law -- at all appealing.
I've never been there, but an Icelandified world sounds pretty good from what I've read.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
On a more serious note, I could sense the diminishing influence of the USA quite strongly in Southern Africa. People are much more attuned there (economically, culturally, socially) to what's happening in São Paulo, Bombay or Shanghai than to New York or Washington.
I once heard Mr. Obama described as "the last President of when the USA was still the most influential country in the world". The next President will have a much different task than her predecessors. Whether that's a good or a bad thing, I guess only time will tell.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Americanization is the worst form of civilization ... you guessed it.
What's happening in São Paulo, Pretoria, Shanghai is the Americanization of the world. If America imploded tonight Americanization, Romanization, Babylonization, 'civilization' would continue.
The question is, can we be agents - in the subversive sense - of God's civilization in and to all and any including Islam?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard: What's happening in São Paulo, Pretoria, Shanghai (...)
If you're looking for an example of a city in South-Africa where things are happening, you might want to pick Johannesburg. Pretoria is very laid-back
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Finnish world. Then everyone could know the pleasures of having your own sauna and summer cabin and Finnish vodka.
I second that. I know that during the Cold War the term "Finlandisation" was not meant as a compliment, but today Finlandisation stands for a clean country, an egalitarian society (well, largely...), beautiful nature and an ecological mindset, lots of outdoor sports, an excellent education system, intelligent media (again, largely) and a (largely) commonsensical public discourse, and they even have decent restaurants in Helsinki now. My five years there were probably the happiest of my life, and the environment played a big role in that.
The real downside of Finlandisation? We'd all have to learn Finnish ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
-- but seriously, I don't like the idea of any nation being the cultural (or economic, for that matter) hegemon. Systems work best when they are smallish and consist of homogeneous elements. So if it's goodbye America, hopefully now we can all be ourselves again.
The information technology that underlies globalisation will favour the small, the solid, the nimble, the innovative... which leads us to Finland again... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I'm just sure the Chinese had no ulterior motives in saying that.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
-- but seriously, I don't like the idea of any nation being the cultural (or economic, for that matter) hegemon. Systems work best when they are smallish and consist of homogeneous elements. So if it's goodbye America, hopefully now we can all be ourselves again.
The information technology that underlies globalisation will favour the small, the solid, the nimble, the innovative... which leads us to Finland again...
Nice thought. But not having a common base for trade would be disastrous to our already fragile economies.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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pererin
Shipmate
# 16956
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
The thing is, we've all bought into the Americanisation of the world even while tut-tutting and denouncing it. Our dress, our manners, our eating habits, entertainment and much, much else besides have all been informed by American cultural influences whether we like it or not.
Equally, who informed American culture in the first place? Those White (let's not play definitions; it's fashionable to be a quarter Native American...) Anglo-Saxon (actually generic North-European) Protestants (other Judeo-Christians count too) have a lot to answer for. Yes, it's not perfect — what culture is? — but enough of it is very closely related to our own that most others would be very alien indeed by comparison. And if anything, the USA bears more relation to the freedom that underlay the Holy Roman Empire than any of its successors, who have comprehensively failed to exorcise the ghost of Napoleon.
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"They go to and fro in the evening, they grin like a dog, and run about through the city." (Psalm 59.6)
Posts: 446 | From: Llantrisant | Registered: Feb 2012
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
AIUI large parts of Africa are becoming Sinified already. Not culturally, but large infrastructure projects in Africa are increasingly being funded and carried out by Chinese enterprises.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
The question is, can we be agents - in the subversive sense - of God's civilization in and to all and any including Islam?
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Re the topic title.
Sounds like a plan. Would it mean less invasions? Less drones? Less dead people? Okay, maybe not. No hope for the human race. Another idiot country that thinks it has the patent on freedom and <name some national quality here> will come along. Is it the Chinese? You folks seem to think so. I don't know. Their ideas of freedom seems about as good.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
we now see the USA has been spying on communications in friendly nations, kidnapping citizens in other sovereign nations, and now bumping off wanted men in other countries.
Don't forget killing it's own citizens with drones and failing to protect vulnerable diplomats from unnecessary death.
As to the OP, seems all your other "options" have had many more centuries to figure it out than the US has. Only a couple centuries in I say we stick with it a bit longer, fatally flawed as it is.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
Various cultures have had ascendency over the years. Greek, Roman, British, American etc.
I suspect the trend of the rise of Asian culture and world influence will continue as the influence of USA declines.
This will not diminish the American population; in the same way British people are not marginalised; but simply reflect the shift of the political and economic influence of the nations.
Just pray Australia never gets ascendancy- She'll be right Bruce.
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Pererin--
The "freedom that underlay the Holy Roman Empire"???
Not a great example of freedom, AFAIK.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
And who is it that has a navy presence around the world? Used to be said the sun never sets on the British empire. Now the sun never sets on an American warship.
Our apologies for how our politicians have been acting, though. Still, we have been able to step back from the brink. Just pray we never go over that cliff in the near future.
I am sure the Japanese, the Philippines, Taiwan, the Vietnamese are all looking forward to the Sinolization of the world.
Interesting how China is using its investments in the United States to fund its projects in Africa.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
I don't think South Africa has ever been particularly Americanised.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Another idiot country that thinks it has the patent on freedom and <name some national quality here> will come along. Is it the Chinese?
I've never particularly got the impression that Chinese foreign policy is intended to spread the cause of freedom or any other ideological virtue around the world.
Chinese foreign policy seems to me to have two objectives: 1. stability (so support for North Korea, even though even the Politburo regards their leadership as a bunch of nutjobs, because a war on the peninsula would destabilise China), and 2. make as much money for China as possible.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
It's easy to look at the proliforation of M¢Donald$ or $tar*ucks on every street corner as Americanisation. But I don't think it is.
Multinational companies expanding is not Americanisation. I see the influence of American politics on the politics of other countries has diminished since the start of the worldwide recession. Many countries use that as America's fault. Again I'd put the blame on multinationals who are operating, as far at it is possible, outside the ability of governments, including that of the USA, to stop them doing what they want.
If we are to stem the rise of multi-national led globalisation we need to tackle it Internationally. The countries with the largest markets, including the USA and China would have to be involved in this. Which is why I consider China's comments unhelpful.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Some time ago, I read John Bagot Glubb's (Glubb Pasha, for those who may identify that name) history of the Arab empire of the 700-1100 era.
He summarised with the idea that empires have a natural life-span, lasting, on average, about 250 years. There were reasonably-convincing dates for the Arabs, for instance, and arguable approximations for the Spanish and British empires. In the latter case, he took the starting date at 1713, with the formal British acquisition of Madras at the Treaty of Utrecht, leading inevitably to the formal destruction of the Empire in the 1950's and 60's.
I'm sure that, say, the Persian empire which was defeated by Alexander, or the Dutch trading empire more recently, had similar lifespans.
None of this means that the people of any of those empires were more depraved before or after the events, just that they lost the will to control an empire.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I think it's silly to extrapolate a gargantuan shift in the world order from a few turbulent years in one part of the US government.
Whether British teenagers emulate American rappers or Chinese pop-stars is inconsequential to me, at any rate. But I rather doubt these kids are thinking "Hey, those Republican tea-party prats are co-opting democracy—let's listen to Brazilian dance music instead of rap."
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I've never particularly got the impression that Chinese foreign policy is intended to spread the cause of freedom or any other ideological virtue around the world.
Chinese foreign policy seems to me to have two objectives: 1. stability (so support for North Korea, even though even the Politburo regards their leadership as a bunch of nutjobs, because a war on the peninsula would destabilise China), and 2. make as much money for China as possible.
Sounds like the American foreign policy. Except they reverse the order. Money is first. America doesn't spread freedom. It spreads business.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
I don't think South Africa has ever been particularly Americanised.
We're working on it right now with prosperity gospel Pentecostalism. Give us a few decades.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Zach wrote:
quote:
I think it's silly to extrapolate a gargantuan shift in the world order from a few turbulent years in one part of the US government.
Reminds me of an op-ed I once read by some British journalist, one of those 1990s "EU-Is-The-Future" guys, during the Clinton impeachment thing.
He ended by saying that with the American government clearly on the ropes because pf the impeachment, the world would now be looking to Europe for leadership.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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otyetsfoma
Shipmate
# 12898
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Posted
The americanization I most resent in England is their hallowe'en; which encourages kids to beg, or to demand sweets with menaces. Nevertheless I prefer friendship with USA to subservience to the EU.
Posts: 842 | From: Edgware UK | Registered: Aug 2007
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
But Halloween has been in Canada just as long as it has been in the US.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Even Shakespeare was susceptible to Americanization. He writes about the practice of begging on Hallowmas in The Two Gentlemen of Verona, which will either make British snobs feel better about Hallowe'en, or make them feel worse about Billy Shakes.
[ 04. November 2013, 03:09: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Soul Cakes are not an American innovation, I think you'll find. Souling long predates the European "discovery" of the Americas.
[ 04. November 2013, 04:21: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
would shipmates agree with the Chinese position?
At least the American government gets into trouble with its citizens for all the misdemeanours that you list. Chinese citizens aren't able to complain about invasions of privacy, for instance. I suspect that the Chinese public position regarding non-intervention is a fairly cynically held one, and would on the face of it include standing idly by while Yugoslavia or Rwanda descended into genocide. Swapping American for Chinese influences would be a case of jumping from the frying pan to the fire. We would have better food on balance but worse human rights.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
I keep thinking that America is where the U.K. was in the Suez Crisis in the fifties. It's about to realize it no longer can afford an empire. It remains to be seen if it can disentangle itself from the Military Industrial Complex and scale back without breaking the government.
As unpleasant as the Pax Americana may have struck other countries, there are a number of countries that are going to have to make new arrangements for self defense if they have been relying on the U.S.
Dying empires often cast a long cultural shadow. It may be harder to escape the shadow of Hollywood then to escape the shadow of the US military.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
As unpleasant as the Pax Americana may have struck other countries, there are a number of countries that are going to have to make new arrangements for self defense if they have been relying on the U.S.
But defend themselves from whom?
As has been shown (repeatedly), a modern high-tech superpower is more-or-less powerless against even shambolic and poorly-armed but highly-motivated irregular forces.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
Powerless seems an exaggeration. Al Qaeda seems very degraded in its capacity to conduct terrorism compared with 10 years ago. "Not completely invulnerable" seems more accurate than "powerless".
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Powerless seems an exaggeration. Al Qaeda seems very degraded in its capacity to conduct terrorism compared with 10 years ago. "Not completely invulnerable" seems more accurate than "powerless".
No one's suggesting that Al Qaeda can 'win' in any meaningful sense of the word. But neither can the USA. Of the main areas of US involvement in the last two decades, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya are all, essentially, lost to Islamic extremists, Syria is heading that way, and Pakistan likewise.
Surprisingly, one organisation which has made any territorial expansion against 'the forces of darkness' is the EU, successfully dragging in former communist bloc countries and providing a whole field of carrots to accession countries - all without an effective army (Yes, NATO and the EU have considerable overlap, but we didn't have to put tanks on the lawn in anywhere except Kosovo.)
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Sounds like the American foreign policy. Except they reverse the order. Money is first. America doesn't spread freedom. It spreads business.
Like most Australians of my generation, the one before and most of those after, it's very hard to forget the way in which the US came to our assistance in early May 1942 at the Battle of the Coral Sea. Without that great victory, at a time when Churchill had all but written us off, not only would the Aust Army not have defeated the Japanese at the Battle of Milne Bay 4 months later, but quite likely there would have been an Axis invasion of Nth Queensland. That was not spreading business, that was invaluable assistance to a very much junior ally.
Call it rose-tinted glasses, but even those of us on the left view current events bear that in mind. OK, we disapprove what happened in Vietnam and Iraq and aren't exactly happy with the way things have turned out in Afghanistan, but overall, we still look at the Us as a friend who sometimes makes mistakes. And sometimes we go along with those mistakes.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Sounds like the American foreign policy. Except they reverse the order. Money is first. America doesn't spread freedom. It spreads business.
Like most Australians of my generation, the one before and most of those after, it's very hard to forget the way in which the US came to our assistance in early May 1942 at the Battle of the Coral Sea. Without that great victory, at a time when Churchill had all but written us off, not only would the Aust Army not have defeated the Japanese at the Battle of Milne Bay 4 months later, but quite likely there would have been an Axis invasion of Nth Queensland. That was not spreading business, that was invaluable assistance to a very much junior ally.
Call it rose-tinted glasses, but even those of us on the left view current events bear that in mind. OK, we disapprove what happened in Vietnam and Iraq and aren't exactly happy with the way things have turned out in Afghanistan, but overall, we still look at the Us as a friend who sometimes makes mistakes. And sometimes we go along with those mistakes.
The planned Japanese invasion of Australia is a lie, concocted for the purpose of boosting enlistments and perpetuated by some elements after the war as a part of the national mythology. The "help" from the USA only came because Australia was a convenient base from which to stage their campaign to take back what they really wanted - the Philippines - but I'm sure that the business opportunities were also in mind well before Japan surrendered.
The Japanese high command refused to grant any permission to plan out a couple of proposals to invade Australia suggested by field-grade officers. The strategy they did adopt was to isolate Australia by cutting off supply lines to the east, the only purpose of this was to deny the USA a base to move back into SE Asia towards the Philippines.
As for "friendship" with either America or China, both would generally be considered to be rather sado-masochistic relationships. This is why those two empires don't get along too well, both are generally used to being on top.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
The more I see of China, with its immense industry, drift to the cities and vast military forces the more it resembles America in the 1950's. All that differs is that in China the government owns business whereas in the USA it is the other way round.
In short, China is "Americanising China", albeit with Chinese people acting under government compulsion rather than Americans under economic necessity.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
We would probably also have to talk about legitimate Japanese concerns about American expansionism in the Pacific. I've never understood how it is "America = good" and "Japan = bad" except for the 30-40 year gap in time when we consider the Philippines and Manchuria. The post modern view being that America and Japan had a lot in common in the first half of the 20th century in terms of their international conduct. Though I think the USA invaded more countries in total count than Japan. Not sure which killed more people.
[ 04. November 2013, 12:00: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
no prophet: I've never understood how it is "America = good" and "Japan = bad" except for the 30-40 year gap in time when we consider the Philippines and Manchuria.
The Dutch position on this is rather complex, because for a while the Japanese sphere also included Indonesia. We usually don't talk very loud about this though, because this would also cast the spotlight on what the Dutch themselves have done in Indonesia a couple of years later.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Soul Cakes are not an American innovation, I think you'll find. Souling long predates the European "discovery" of the Americas.
Yeah... that was pretty much my point.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
I don't think South Africa has ever been particularly Americanised.
We're working on it right now with prosperity gospel Pentecostalism. Give us a few decades.
I though Hillsong was doing a good trade in that in South Africa, and you can't blame America for them. They're Aussies!
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
seekingsister: I though Hillsong was doing a good trade in that in South Africa, and you can't blame America for them. They're Aussies!
I'm afraid that the (Brazilian) Universal Church of the Kingdom of God is doing very well in South Africa too.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
The thing is, we've all bought into the Americanisation of the world even while tut-tutting and denouncing it. Our dress, our manners, our eating habits, entertainment and much, much else besides have all been informed by American cultural influences whether we like it or not.
What I find interesting is how much African-American culture specifically has been absorbed throughout the world. Amy Winehouse and Adele would not have existed without Nina Simone and Aretha Franklin, for example. The two largest jazz festivals in the world are in Switzerland and Canada.
Maya Angelou wrote in one of her biographies how shocked she and the all-black cast of "Porgy and Bess" were when they travelled to Europe in the 1950s and were treated like A-listers, while in the US they were entering theaters through the backdoor.
People seem to find these elements of American culture a lot less offensive, somehow, than the mainstream sort of movies/TV/pop music.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
The thing is, we've all bought into the Americanisation of the world even while tut-tutting and denouncing it. Our dress, our manners, our eating habits, entertainment and much, much else besides have all been informed by American cultural influences whether we like it or not.
What I find interesting is how much African-American culture specifically has been absorbed throughout the world. Amy Winehouse and Adele would not have existed without Nina Simone and Aretha Franklin, for example. The two largest jazz festivals in the world are in Switzerland and Canada.
Maya Angelou wrote in one of her biographies how shocked she and the all-black cast of "Porgy and Bess" were when they travelled to Europe in the 1950s and were treated like A-listers, while in the US they were entering theaters through the backdoor.
People seem to find these elements of American culture a lot less offensive, somehow, than the mainstream sort of movies/TV/pop music.
Two words. Spice Girls. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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