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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Football Thread 2013
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
A new season is upon us. It's all yours... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
<small>[ 11. February 2013, 06:24: Message buggered about with by: Ariston ]</small>
[ 13. February 2013, 15:47: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
So, the new (English) season kicks off this weekend. Anyone have any predictions - serious or flippant?
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Not a prediction, just the sad and unsurprising news, that Fabrice Muamba has retired.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) For a long, fruitful and rewarding retirement.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Prediction number one: whatever happens when Saturday comes it won't be as agonisingly ghastly as last night's League Cup.
I mean, extra time and penalty shoot-outs? ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) At Millwall? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) On a Tuesday night? ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif) Against Crawley Town? ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
And one of the worst gasmes of football anyone present ahd ever seen. By midway through the second half most of us wanted anyone at all to score, even from the other side, so we copuld give up and go to the pub. As it was the game dragged on till almost half past ten.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
I hope our new manager pans out. It would be good to be in the top three again. Whither Happy Harry?
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
At least it didn't end up in 22 penalties, which is what it took Huddersfield to get into the Championship. I'm hoping for an average season, we need to build a team before we push for the Premiership.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
The US just beat Mexico 1- 0. Surprised the heck outta me.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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basso
Ship’s Crypt Keeper
# 4228
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Posted
Got a new division to get used to this year. Feels roomy up here.
I'll be happy with a season of consolidation here. Beats looking nervously at the wrong end of the table.
Posts: 4358 | From: Bay Area, Calif | Registered: Mar 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I watched Brazil winning 3-0 against Sweden yesterday, but I think this score paints a too rosy picture of the strength of the Seleção. I don't think Brazil will get very far if they play like this against Italy or Spain. Within the country, there's a lot of criticism of the coach. I also heard the commentators of Globo say: "In the last decades, there always used to be quite a fuzz near the hotel where the Brazilian team slept. Now there were only 10–15 people around." But they still have 2 years before playing the WC at home.
Meanwhile, my home team lost its first League match 4–1 against Twente. It's going to be a difficult season...
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
The US just beat Mexico 1- 0. Surprised the heck outta me.
And England beat Italy 2-1. Probably put paid to Andy Carroll's long-term international career. A nice win, but also a 'friendly', though you wouldn't have known it from some of the tackles.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Liverpool don't want him, England don't want him, can't imagine why.
LeRoc - did Oscar play? How did he look?
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, the new (English) season kicks off this weekend. Anyone have any predictions - serious or flippant?
Premiership
Champions: Man City
Champs League: Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham
Relegated: Swansea, Wigan, Southampton
Championship
Champions: Wolves
Promoted: Blackburn, Birmingham
Relegated: Huddersfield, Palace, Peterborough
League 1
Champions: Sheffield Utd
Promoted: Carlisle, Coventry
Relegated: Bury, Yeovil, Walsall
(fourth relegation spot not filled due to Portsmouth going out of business half way through the season)
League 2
Champions: Southend
Promoted: Wycombe, Bristol Rov, Fleetwood
Relegated: Barnet, Northampton
Blue Square Premier
Champions: Hereford
Promoted: Wrexham
Relegated: Telford, Dartford, Newport, Tamworth
FA Cup: Liverpool
League Cup: Newcastle
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Oooh - Spurs above the Gunners is a big call. I honestly think that a Modric-less Tottenham is going to be a tough gig for AVB: I can see them imploding.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Imaginary Friend: LeRoc - did Oscar play? How did he look?
He did, until halfway in the second period. But I have to admit that I was looking more at Neymar. I found him quite weak against Mexico, so I wanted to know if he'd do better now.
And we'd better not talk about this week's friendly between Holland and Belgium ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Oooh - Spurs above the Gunners is a big call. I honestly think that a Modric-less Tottenham is going to be a tough gig for AVB: I can see them imploding.
A Modric-less Spurs may be a tough gig, but take Van Persie away from Arsenal last year and they'd have been nowhere.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
When you see some of the prices being talked about for some average players then ManU seem to have got a bargain in Van Persie.
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Marvin, that's true, but the board have allowed Wenger to open the club's wallet a little already, and talk is that there'll be a couple more additions arriving before the 31st. I don't think they'll be in too much of a hole. But I would love to be proven wrong!
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Marvin, that's true, but the board have allowed Wenger to open the club's wallet a little already, and talk is that there'll be a couple more additions arriving before the 31st. I don't think they'll be in too much of a hole. But I would love to be proven wrong!
It depends on what you mean by being in a hole. If clubs don't get a place in Europe, they have failed to a greater extent than failing to win the Premiership! Arsenal, as Liverpool, could well be in that position again.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I guess the definition of "not being in too much of a hole" depends a bit on expectations. For Arsenal, I would say anything in the top four is okay, given their record and the kind of achievement they aspire too. Honestly, I think they'll come fourth, although they will probably be close with Chelsea for third. I expect Liverpool to start brightly (a flush of new-manager enthusiasm) but I don't see them sustaining a campaign for a whole season so they'll fade. I already said I think Spurs will implode under the weight of AVB's ego. The dark horses are Newcastle: I really can't guess how they'll be this year.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, the new (English) season kicks off this weekend. Anyone have any predictions - serious or flippant?
Premiership
Champions: Man City
Champs League: Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham
My heart tells me Newcastle, Spurs, and Arsenal will all be in the top four, but my head says Manchesterx2, Chelsea, then one of Arsenal or Liverpool. Just like every year.
quote:
Relegated: Swansea, Wigan, Southampton
All the Ws - West Brom, West Ham, Wigan. The bottom three on the table will be the same at the end of the season as it is now before the first kick-off.
If that amazing coincidence fails to materialise (and I have no real evidence that it will!) I think Wigan are still for the chop unless they pull a huge rabbit out of the hat.
My guess is that QPR and maybe Villa will end up lower than either Southampton or Swansea.
Its hard to see any of the other teams down there. Reading should be safe, though not top-half, and Norwich as well. I suppose if Fulham or Stoke have a really, really, really, bad time of it they might be in the bottom five, but its hard to see them in bottom three. Though I have a vague feeling that Stoke are actually going to end up safely in the top half of the table. As will Sunderland. This is going to be a good year for north-eastern teams.
quote:
Championship
Champions: Wolves
Promoted: Blackburn, Birmingham
Relegated: Huddersfield, Palace, Peterborough
As usual much harder to call than the other divisions. Are you sure you aren't allowing some local Midlander pride to creep in to your prediction about the first place? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) I suspect you might be more accurate about the bottom three though. Even so there are two or three other teams I'd not be surprised to see down there (Barnsley, Bristol, Wednesday), and three or four more (Burnley, Notts Forest, Millwall, maybe even Derby) that you can't rule out from the drop. Forest ought to have a better season than last year but...
At the top its wide open. Loads of dark horses. I'd like to see Bolton get back up and if they can hold on to one or two players and stay solvent they have a good chance. And they did end up last season significantly ahead of Blackburn and Wolves. And they are riding on a wave of public sympathy over Muamba which might put their attendances up for the first few weeks and even give the players a little morale boost. On the other hand if the financial wheels fall of their bus (and they are very close to it according to some) then they might even do a Portsmouth and drop through the floor ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Birmingham looks a safe bet for promotion, probably the only one in this division. Or would be if Hughton was still there. What were they thinking? Not at all so sure about Wolves. Leicester's drive for glory through spending has failed and they might do surprisingly badly this year, I think they are out of the running for top places. Leeds fans will delude themselves that they can get up, but they almost certainly can't. Watford are going to try to drive for promotion, maybe with some extra money, and Blackpool and Brighton will too. Charlton will try to emulate the success of the last few year's promotions from League One, but will need magic money to do it. Cardiff must be in with a good chance of promotion and Boro a slim one.
But there are loads of unpredictables. Huddersfield might equally well end up near the bottom or the top of the table depending on which team out of their two apparently identical ones they bring to which match. The players look like the same team as last week - but somehow they don't play like themselves at all. That was good enough for League One, but? The same goes for Hull. Geniuses or gremlins, you never can tell. And of course for Millwall. If the real Super Millwall come out to play more than a few times they will be around about the bottom of the playoff zone, but if their Useless Identical Twin Team see too much action they could be near the bottom. And after the travesty of losing twice against Crawley in less than a fortnight, both a friendly and a League Cup match, I can assure you that Millwall's Useless Identical Twin Team really is useless.
quote:
League 1
Champions: Sheffield Utd
Promoted: Carlisle, Coventry
Relegated: Bury, Yeovil, Walsall
(fourth relegation spot not filled due to Portsmouth going out of business half way through the season)
Crawley, Orient, and Scunthorpe all near the top of the table. Hartlepool and Doncaster might even get into promotion. Did I say this was going to be a good season for the North East? Don't rule out either Colchester or Stevenage.
Coventry to continue their decline and finish mid-table at best. I can't see a good season for Crewe either.
MK will yet again fail to get the division 2 spot everyone but them realises they don't deserve.
Portsmouth to miraculously survive.
quote:
League 2
Champions: Southend
Promoted: Wycombe, Bristol Rov, Fleetwood
Relegated: Barnet, Northampton
Southend deffo. Bristol probably. Not sure about Fleetwood and we don't want Wycombe - let them riot with Yeovil!
Barnet can stay up if they can get a ground to play in the season after. (Maybe they can share with Portsmouth...)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Whoops, got a bit carried away there. And even more carried away at a website near you where I have just posted baseless predictions for every team in all four main leagues: Before Reality Sets In.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
There is a rumour Emile Heskey may be ending up at Toronto FC.
Apparently God has decreed we can't have one season go by without a useless striker who can't score.
I think its in Numbers somewhere....
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Wow. Doesn't Brendan Rogers have his work cut out for him?! He well and truly lost the battle of the Chelsea Old Boys.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Still think Southampton will get relegated, ken? I was only listening on the radio but what a game earlier today! Manchester City 3, Southampton 2 - and Saints came back from 1-0 down to lead 2-1 for a few minutes, against the moneybags champions of all teams. Come on you reds!
Rather obvious declaration of interest - I'm a Southampton fan. One who's now a bit more hopeful of Premier League survival. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Still think Southampton will get relegated, ken?
Er, I didn't in the first place. That was Marvin. I put Saints at 15th out of 20.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Oops, reading fail - sorry! So... Marvin, still think Southampton will get relegated?!
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I expect Liverpool to start brightly
Not against the mighty Baggies, they didn't! Boing Boing!
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
So... Marvin, still think Southampton will get relegated?!
Yep. Premier League history is replete with small teams who come up, start brightly, gain all sort of plaudits and admiration, then go straight back down again.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Marvin, I am glad to be wrong about Liverpool.
Meanwhile, the mighty CFC put in a workmanlike performace in Wigan. Two early goals (Brana for striker?!) allowed us to take our foot off the gas somewhat. Although Hazard, Mata, and Bertrand all played well, JT, Cole, and Nando had days they would rather forget. But three points and no injuries constitutes a completely reasonable start to the season. Do the same again against Reading on Wednesday, and we'll be ready for our first big game against the Toon next weekend. That will be a much stiffer test, especially considering the way they eviscerated us at St James' the end of last season.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Last weekend, I watched Atlético Mineiro against Botafogo. Interesting, because the former side has Ronaldinho and the latter Clarence Seedorf. A reunion from their AC Milan days.
It was a great game, with a swift pace and many chances for both sides. The 3–2 final score did the game justice.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I missed this last night and had forgotten about by morning!
Threepoints on day 1. Some seasons it takes us a month to get that many!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I saw the last 30 mins or so of that game. Fantastic atmosphere at Goodison and I was really pleased that your boys managed to hang on. I rather think that Everton are a good outside bet for a Europa place this year.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
Now here's an assertion for football supporters to disagree on - Big Clubs!
The ultra subjective (and so brilliant) concept of what makes a Big Club is worth querying. Do you agree or disagree with this interpretation of “Big Club”:
Many supporters and commentators often use the term “Big Club” as a claim of innate superiority over others. It's ultra subjective as the factors involved and importance of each factor vary according to opinion (much like Christianity...)
I assert that the correct factors in descending order of importance are: (i) Titles won, (ii) European Trophies won, (iii) Cups won, (iv) size of fan base, (v) commercial success, (vi) overall wealth, (vii) facilities and (vii) potential size of fan base in England and overseas
Shire Dweller's assertions:
There are only 4 Big Clubs with two other categories of nearly and potential Big Clubs
Big Clubs - 1) Man Utd, 2) Liverpool, 3) Chelsea, 4) Arsenal
a) Man Utd are now bigger than Liverpool due to the cumulative effect of more Titles with 3 European Cups/Champions Leagues and their immense domestic and international fan base and commercial success
b) Liverpool are still the 2nd Biggest Club due to their Titles, Cups and being the most successful English club in Europe. They also have immense potential
c) Chelsea's Champions league win and their multiple recent Cups and titles have propelled them upwards. They are now the Biggest of the London clubs.
d) Arsenal are less of a Big Club than Chelsea but due to their history of success and potential are not yet out of this category. Its up to Man City to shift them.
Current Nearly Big Clubs - 1) Man City, 2) Newcastle, 3) Tottenham
All three have great potential and at least some success in the past – although City could become Big fairly soon by winning more titles and a Champions League.
Other Potentials (but not for a while) - 1) Aston Villa, 2) Leeds United
These clubs have the capacity to be massive in their own area but for a variety of reasons, the West Midlands and Yorkshire just aren't cutting it at football at the moment.
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Right around the Wrekin
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I would propose an alternative definition: The 'bigness' of your club is defined by the number of others who hate you.
Leeds are massive.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
Yes, the Premier League of Hatred is another way of doing it:
Perhaps for general fans the top 3 most hated clubs are:
1) Man Utd (clearly!)
2) Chelsea
3) Leeds
(This is discounting particularly parochial rivalries eg. The visceral malevolence between West Brom and Wolves fans – when in all honesty they are both just different species of the Genus “Brummie”)
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I'd like to make a case for my club, Everton.
I don't claim Everton is a big club but they hold these distinctions:
Everton was a founder member of the Football League.
Everton has played in the Division 1/Premiership for more seasons than any other club.
Everton holds the record for home wins in Division 1/Premiership (yeah our away record isn't so hot!)
Everton has scored more Division 1/Premiership goals than any other club.
Goodison Park was the world's first completely purpose-built football ground. It was the first ground to have undersoil heating installed.
Dixie Dean holds the record for most goals in a Division 1/Premiership season (60 in 39 games). He also scored a record 7 hat-tricks. Oh for a 21st century Dixie Dean.
On the other hand Everton has lost (and drawn) more matches than any other club!
eta: we've won a few titles over the years too: five FA Cups and nine Division 1/Premiership titles.
[ 27. August 2012, 21:09: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
Presumably you want to be Big rather than Hated....
Everton is a funny old team – few seem to dislike them particularly much (correct me if I'm wrong) – even the red half of Merseyside seem to get on fairly well with Everton but that good will could just be the Moyes effect. No-one could have liked Andy Gray when he was there...
If Everton acquired a Sugar daddy then they would have potential, but would still need to win more trophies – then I'd say they could be big.
The problem with the notionally smaller clubs that could become big is of course the need for a billionaire to transform the place. And there aren't that many of them wanting football clubs now which is why Liverpool ended up with new owners that aren't actually all that wealthy (in football terms)
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Shire Dweller:
Presumably you want to be Big rather than Hated....
Everton is a funny old team – few seem to dislike them particularly much (correct me if I'm wrong) – even the red half of Merseyside seem to get on fairly well with Everton but that good will could just be the Moyes effect. No-one could have liked Andy Gray when he was there...
When the grounds are within half a mile and households are 'split' you have to get along most of the time. Hillsborough had an effect: Man Utd fans taunt Liverpool fans about it but it's rare, though regrettably not unknown, from Evertonians. We're pissed off about missing a few years in Europe, but not alone in that.
quote:
If Everton acquired a Sugar daddy then they would have potential, but would still need to win more trophies – then I'd say they could be big.
The problem with the notionally smaller clubs that could become big is of course the need for a billionaire to transform the place. And there aren't that many of them wanting football clubs now which is why Liverpool ended up with new owners that aren't actually all that wealthy (in football terms)
We'd rather be successful than 'Big', but unlike some we don't think titles come with the name and history; a bit of respect would do, but that doesn't come with history either.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
A perspective from this side of the pond. I was at Sears the other day, walking through the boy's clothing department on my way to the large home appliances. They had a selection of association football shirts, which you never would have seen when I was growing up. Two European club shirts were available: Man U and Barcelona. So clearly, Man U is the "big club" from our perspective. Enough young boys or parents know who they are to want to buy the shirts.
You could probably find a Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool shirt at a soccer-specific store. Casual fans know who these teams are, mostly because they have been common faces in the Champions League since it has been carried on American television. They haven't made the leap to a regular department store, but you see a shirt from time to time on the street. They would probably qualify as lesser big teams. Man City could jump in with a run of Champion's League appearances.
Everyone else is relegated to dedicated soccer fan subculture. If you haven't spent several years on TV in Champion's League games, the only reason we know about you is because we pay extra for the cable soccer channel. You may get highlights on ESPN or a game on Fox, but it is because you are playing Man U or one of the lesser three. I guess last season, my local soccer bar was split 50/50 between Spurs and Arsenal fans during one match, but those were serious fans. You probably wouldn't see someone in a Spurs shirt unless they were a pretty serious fan, and they probably bought it online.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
That's interesting.
How much of a minority sport is football now in the US? Other than the problem that you call the game the wrong name? .... ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
American players who've come to England have mostly been competent and the American team at World Cups is often also competent..... which cannot always be said for England. So there must be a fairly significant interest in the game.
A comparison would be that all US sports are 'minority' interest in Britain if you take the availability of merchandise as a measuring stick. Basketball things from the NBA are available in sports shops but there is next to nothing for American Football, Baseball and Ice Hockey unless you order it on-line.
Man Utd have been marketing overseas for years and since 2005 and the Glazer takeover they've gone into overdrive in marketing around the world - particularly the US market. Most other 'Big clubs' are playing catch up.
But the US will be hearing more of Liverpool in the future due to their aquisation by (seemingly competent) US interests from (totally incompetent) Cowboys. Liverpool's strategy will be to market relentlessly in the US.
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Association Football fans in the United States tend to be under 40, but as those of us who follow the game start having kids, it may become a bigger sport. (I can think of at least one person I went to school with who is raising his kids as Barcelona fans). I would say it still ranks fifth, just below ice hockey, but the NHL could easily be caught in the next few years.
The majority of the professional sports teams in Denver (but not the Broncos, who are the biggest shot by a long measure) are owned by Stan Kroenke, who also owns a majority of Arsenal. Although they do have a development deal with the local MLS team, you really do not see any marking push on the part of Arsenal here. So I don't know if Liverpool will do anything specific to target the US.
I will say that if Clint Dempsey is transferred to Liverpool and keeps getting playing time, I suspect that US soccer fans will start watching the reds a little closer.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Soccer is a strange one in the US. For many people of Hispanic descent, it is their only sport. Here in DC, I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Salvadorians and a lot of them wear Barca, Real, or Salvadorian shirts. A lot of the hard-core support for DC United is also from Latinos.
On the other hand, soccer is the game that middle class white girls play. The 'soccer mom' stereotype has a certain truth to it.
And then there is a growing number of people who watch European (and USMNT and USWNT) soccer because they have come to like the sport. I watch a lot of Chelsea games with guys from the DC chapter of Chelsea In America, and most of them are people who have been to Europe for one reason or another, have been introduced to the game, and who fell in love with it. Most of the are naturally Europhillic to begin with and many only have the most tenuous reasons for choosing Chelsea rather than any other club. But still, they have become genuine supports.
When Chelsea were here on tour this summer, I had the privilege of going to a Q&A session with Ron Gourlay. From the way he was talking, the club definitely sees the US as a big potential market to be tapped. I'm sure that the new financial fair play rules are a big part of the motivation. Chelsea are a ways behind United, Barca, Real, and a few others (although, surprisingly, NOT Liverpool) on this front but they're working pretty hard at it. If I wear a Chelsea shirt around the university campus where I work, I'll quite frequently have people smile at the badge or shout "Chelsea" from the other side of the street. Awareness is definitely growing, especially among the late teens and early twenties age bracket.
And then there are the expats, who tend to shake their heads in barely comprehending despair as they listen to Americans talk about the "EPL", the "UCL", "PKs", ask which city Chelsea are from, have promotion and relegation explained to them for the umpteenth time, and marvel that there can be more than one club in each city.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
I would say it still ranks fifth, just below ice hockey, but the NHL could easily be caught in the next few years.
Actually, depending how you do the statistics, it can rank as high as second. My memory is (and I can't be bothered to go and check, so I may be wrong) that if you take the average attendance at each match, then the MLS (which I guess I didn't get around to writing about in my previous post - oops! ) is second only to football among pro sports.
Obviously, if you take total attendence throughout a season, then the MLS drops because there aren't that many teams and there aren't that many games. But I think the MLS also does quite well in terms of average stadium occupation (as in, percentage of seats sold) too.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
It definitely is a new departure to think of European clubs becoming popular in America.
I'm not in the least bit surprised that Chelsea have the potential to be popular. Historically Chelsea's supporter base has always been an amalgam of the “cool set” in whatever era and the working class from west / south west London. Chelsea hoover up new supporters who like the feel good West London / success / coolness aspect of their historic set up. The cash Abramovich has also helps...
The appeal of the different English clubs wont be just down to marketing – Your Chelsea-ness is somehow now part of your identity, even if just part of a football sub culture in the US. But it is being part of an identity that will define which club people pick.
Eg. “Winners” will inevitably pick the winning sides. That will result in the most bizarre situations of people in Arkansas starting to support Man City. Man Utd have had this kind of “winner” support for years.
And those who are attracted to history and tradition (and a persecution complex...) will fall for Liverpool (just experience a big floodlit match at Anfield for that - even on TV)
Q: The English Premier League often asserts that it's success overseas is mostly down to that the games are fast paced and exciting. As opposed to Spain where the skill level is higher but the matches are often boring.
Would you say this is a reason for the Premier League becoming popular in the US?
Or is it just an English language thing?
Or an attraction to the identity and history and traditions of the Premier League clubs?
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I should add - I'm a British expat, so I took my Chelsea-ness with me to the States.
But to answer your question, I would say a bit of all three. But the style of football is probably the least important of the reasons you mention. It also helps that all Premiership matches are available on cable*, which isn't necessarily true of Serie A or the Bundesliga, for example. And I would also add that the Premiership is the most popular only with a (mostly white) English-speaking audience. I think that most Spanish-speaking fans watch either La Liga or Mexican football.
* In fact, there is more soccer on TV in the US than in Britain.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
My apologies for my presumptuousness
Now that I know you are British I suddenly feel that I don't have to be so balanced and can put the boot into Chelsea like I'm supposed to....
But more pertinently, if you're British why are you referring to Football using the heretical term ******?
Of course the term “Association Football” is acceptable. But ******?
..... ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Seriously folks, if "most hated club" is your criterion for bigness - there is only one team in London ;-)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Shire Dweller, I've been in North America long enough that the word 'football' is genuinely ambiguous in my mind*. But feel free to lay into Chelsea - it's only a sign that we're better than you. Who are you team of choice, so that I know when I can dish it out?
ken - Millwall?
* I also eat fries, drink soda, pronounce the letter 'z' as "zee", and so on. I figure that if I was living in Germany I would expect to speak German, so as I'm in America it's reasonable that I speak American. C'est la vie.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
ken - Millwall?
"The best team in London, the best team of all, everybody knows us, we're called..."
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Seriously folks, if "most hated club" is your criterion for bigness - there is only one team in London ;-)
Yup, West Ham United. Utterly deluded thanks to sporadic success and messrs Moore, Hurst and Peters.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Okay.
Having Big Sam back in the Prem has to be one of the worst things about this season. The only thing more annoying than their rugby style long ball is their insistence that they play 'proper football'.
But on another note - it's the draw for the Champions League group stages today. Looking at the list of which clubs are in which pots, you could get a group with Real, City, Juve, and Dortmund - the current champions of the four best leagues in Europe. That would be some Group Of Death!
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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