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Source: (consider it) Thread: The Football Thread 2013
ken
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# 2460

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Oh, its not so bad. Wrexham beat Stockport away last night.

San Marino. A country whose entire resident population could fit into less than half of Wembley Stadium. What's the betting that Rooney gets a red card and a three-match ban? Or someone else puts their leg out for a month?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Oh, its not so bad. Wrexham beat Stockport away last night.

Which puts them three points behind Newport County at the top of the Blue Square Premier. If this carries on County could be in League Two next year, but God alone knows where they will play as Spytty Park is way below standard and Rodney Parade is used every week for Rugby (nd is barely fit for that).

quote:

San Marino. A country whose entire resident population could fit into less than half of Wembley Stadium. What's the betting that Rooney gets a red card and a three-match ban? Or someone else puts their leg out for a month?

He'll probably get a goal too. What has possessed Hodgson giving him the captaincy [Confused]

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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What are the other options?

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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ken
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
What are the other options?

The under-19s team ought to beat San Marino 5-niil.

And yes I know that's not in the spirit of the thing. The, er, um, Marinarians? Marinesi? Marinegos? deserve their day out. And a great time will be had by all. Probabkly washed down with large amounts of lovely north Italian wine. I'm tempted already. Are there any other tinly little microstates that only preserve their independence because of a sentimental whim of Napolean,backed up by one of Garibaldi fifty years later?

Heck, Accrington Stanley ought to beat San Marino. Its a bigger town. Though not quite as scenic

[ 11. October 2012, 17:02: Message edited by: ken ]

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Meanwhile, minnows Brazil took on the mighty Iraq today. It wasn't a total bloodbath.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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ken
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Iraq used to have a pretty good international side. Probably because players who didn't give of their best went home to find that random members of their family had been tortured to death in Uday Hussein's basement.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Sandemaniac
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Just turned on the radio to hear England fans phoning in to moan that San Marino had only gone down five nil, instead of being on the wrong end of a proper cricket score (anyone remember 653-4 dec?).

Frankly, what better argument could you have for making Joy in Leeuwarden the anthem for every sports tournament around (it's that third verse that does it).

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Og: Thread Killer
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Neil Warnock = pillock


I have thought for a while that he is kinda out to lunch, but to send his team over to clap fans after one of those lot went on the pitch and thumped the opposing keeper.....that is pretty stupid. And then to defend himself and suggest the opposing manager is only ticked because his team didn't win just doubles down on stupidity.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Sioni Sais
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I have just composed a long and detailed obituary for football but decided simply to tell you I did so rather than force you poor sods to read it.

Don't you think the game is dying on its feet? By its own hand too.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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Honestly, I find that quite hard to assess. I can kind-of see what you mean though. I just tried to compose a reasoned response trying to encapsulate my conflicted feelings on the question, but I was struggling to find words so I'll have to think about it and try again later.

But what I would say is that the game has never been perfect. The question is whether it is worse now than it used to be.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Honestly, I find that quite hard to assess. I can kind-of see what you mean though. I just tried to compose a reasoned response trying to encapsulate my conflicted feelings on the question, but I was struggling to find words so I'll have to think about it and try again later.

But what I would say is that the game has never been perfect. The question is whether it is worse now than it used to be.

OK, this is what I was coming from. A whole stack of incidents: the racism cases involving Luis Suarez and John Terry and their clubs. The attacks on England's under-21 players and coaches in Serbia. Players losing faith in the 'Kick it out' campaign and the chair of that campaign admitting it has neither the power nor the resources to actually kick racism out of the game. The lack of understanding shown by a beknighted Scot in late middle-age of a young black man and the violence between supporters of Sheffield Wednesday and Leeds United, particularly the attack on Chris Kirkland and as for Neil Warnock - words fail me.

That was some of it. I'm afraid I'm beginning to sound like shamwari!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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Yeah, I took it that these events were the kind of thing you were referring to. My question is whether it has always been this way? To what extend to rose-tinted spectacles and the ubiquitous of bloggers and camera phones combine to make things seem worse than they were?

And on the other hand, there are some ways in which things are demonstrably better - much less violence from fans, distinctly less discrimination (although that is obviously a battle that has not been fully won), and probably a higher standard of football in the top flight being three things which come to mind.

What is the sum of these competing factors? I'm not sure.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:


And on the other hand, there are some ways in which things are demonstrably better - much less violence from fans, distinctly less discrimination (although that is obviously a battle that has not been fully won), and probably a higher standard of football in the top flight being three things which come to mind.

What is the sum of these competing factors? I'm not sure.

While there is less violence at and around football matches there is, IMHO, a heck of lot more cheating. 'Simulation' is endemic and refereeing for it is at least ten years behind the practice. It is akin to perjury IRL and should be treated in much the same way, eg, if a player takes a dive trying to get a foul in circumstances that would get the opponent sent off, then they get a red card instead.

Football finance is very murky indeed; we have already seen one of Britain's greatest clubs go under. Most of the Premiership clubs are in hock and Leeds United was very nearly wiped out by debt. Numerous clubs have come to the brink, including Protsmouth, twice. Foreign interests seem to pass the FA's 'fit and proper' test way too easily.

As for racism, I believe football is like many other sports; the PTB are happy for blacks to participate as players but black officials and managers are still pretty rare - how many black and Asian managers are there in top four divisions? About three I believe. Racism has ben reduced on the terraces but black players and fans could give you better information than I.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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ken
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I've only once seen Leeds play under Warnock's rule. As far as I could tell some of the Leeds players deliberately cheated, in what looked like a planned and organised manner. They also commited some off-the-ball fouls, apparently when the officials weren't looking, in a way that seemed calculated to make their opponents angry. Probably the second most disgraceful piece of professional football I've seen in my short career of watching the game.

If I didn't know that no true Yorkshireman could do such a thing I would almost be tempted to believe that Warnock trains his men to cheat and encourages them to foul.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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Sunderland fans (thousands of them, so it seemed) were singing "Steve Taylor, we hope that you die" today. They've been supportive with the HJC, but they like many fans go down the "sign on" road, which happens most games.

Ferdinand is himself someone content to see a player with black skin called a "choc ice".

There's a petty nastiness which has always been in the game, I believe. Tribalism is very strong, and always has been.

Arsenal fans took the high ground over the allegations that Evra made, but they themselves were singing "his mother washes elephants" at Adebayor. As were the mancs.

Some twats (including some of ours) does the "hissing" thing when they play Spurs.

There's a fair load of gobshites in football. The business with Terry, Cole or whoever doesn't bother me, to tell the truth due to what I see as the burden of proof.

The European Championship saw Italians attacked in Germany and England, and Russians were attacked by fascists in Warsaw by Poles.

Football gives outlet to society's gobshitery.

When I was younger I liked teams like Chelsea (when Kerry Dixon and David Speedie played for them), Spurs (when Allen, Waddle, Mabbut and Hoddle played for them), West Ham (Cottee and that Scottish guy) and many other teams, only disliking the mancs. Had a healthy respect for Everton then. Now though, possibly due to age and especially the Suarez business, there is no team out there other than Liverpool that I like, and I don't like all that we do either.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:

If I didn't know that no true Yorkshireman could do such a thing I would almost be tempted to believe that Warnock trains his men to cheat and encourages them to foul.

If he was then he would only be following the example of the English game's most successful manager.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Madness at the Madjeski tonight: Reading go 4-0 up in their League Cup game against Arsenal, and somehow manage to lose 5-7. [Ultra confused]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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I arrived in Katowice, turned on the computer and it was 4-0. I was talking with a family member and keeping an eye on games, and saw 4-1, 4-2 and then 4-3 with a few minutes to go. We watched extra-time together, and she was exited enough to tell her husband about it on the phone.

By the way, regarding the mancs at yours the other day, do you have a view? (Well of course you do, but I am wondering what it is.) For what it's worth, Torres used to get singled out for battering when he played for us (like Suarez now, not that anyone ever hears that [Mad] ) which led to him getting moody and doing things like over-reacting to fouls. Evans came at him two-footed (like he did....no, I'll shut up about that) and Torres got touched and over-reacted. Therefore, from behind, it looked like he dived.

So I reckon anyway.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Imaginary Friend

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My view is that Clattenburg had a pretty terrible game all round. Torres was lucky only to get booked for his first yellow, Mikel could have received a second yellow, Valencia was also fortunate, and Rooney could have gone too. Both he and the linesman should have seen the offside for Hernandez's goal but I think that's probably immaterial since I guess United would have scored before the final whistle anyway. But it was still a dreadful decision.

As for the specific incident with Evans and Torres, I'm convinced it was a foul by Evans. In fact, I heard that Evans' studs ripped a hole in Torres' sock. Torres went down easily but then so does every striker in the league so it would be unfair to single him out.

I've never liked Clattenburg. He's far too keen to make himself the centre of attention, and I think it's a really bad idea for the FA to hire refs with a history of dodgy financial dealings. It makes it too easy for them to take money that they shouldn't. So I hope he never refs again.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sir Kevin
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# 3492

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My Spurs had some hope of defeating City after we scored first in the first half. Sadly, that hope vanished in the second when the dreaded Manchester side scored an equalizer. Did we have the wrong keeper? This was a must-win match and sadly, Freidel seems to be a bit past it - he's over forty, for God's sake! I don't want to see him this week or next. We spent good money for a potential replacement - why not use him a bit more?

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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Imaginary Friend

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Friedel's been in excellent form this season. I watched the second half of that game, and I didn't think he was the problem at all. Mancini won it for them by changing City's shape to get an extra man in midfield to break up Spurs' counter attacks. That, and some brilliance from Silva.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sir Kevin
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As usual, you're the technical expert: I am but a novice fanatic who never played the game in school as my brother did. I know just enough to officiate a game in the schoolyard when I fill in for the PE coach...

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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Sir Kevin,

Once the name "Parker" appears on Spurs team sheet again, they will improve. He hasn't played all season and he won't be back until the new year.

Mind you, they lost Modric in the summer too, so they won't do as well this season as they did last anyway. Sorry about that.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Their gaffer's a bit crap too. [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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So...

Zlatan, eh?

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Jonah the Whale

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# 1244

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For those who didn't see it: Linky
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ken
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Is there anyone in the worlds who hasn't seen that yet?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Is there anyone in the worlds who hasn't seen that yet?

Me. Honestly, I've not.

Then again, I've never seen Star Wars.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Dark Knight

Super Zero
# 9415

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You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me
- A B Original: I C U

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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

Nope, I have a Purpose In Life now. Never to see Zlatan Ibrahimovic's goal.

It won't be the best ever anyway. Matty Burrows scored that for Glentoran a couple of years ago.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Jonah the Whale

Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

It won't be the best ever anyway. Matty Burrows scored that for Glentoran a couple of years ago.

Matty Burrows link

You're wrong Sioni, it was a fair bit better. But then you'll never know because you will never have seen it.

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ken
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Neither of those links works. One moans about copyright violations, the other just goes sowmewhere that doesn't seem to exist.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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Brazil drew 1–1 with Colombia yesterday in a friendly match. Brazil looked better than their adversaries, but they couldn't finish. Neymar's missed penalty drilled a hole in the clouds.

I understand that next week, Brazil will play an important game against Argentina. That will give us an idea of how they really stand.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Jonah the Whale

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# 1244

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First one works for me. Second one was a link to the Youtube's mobile site. Try this one otherwise.
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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

Actually, the quote (which everyone butchered) was that it's the best goal he's ever seen live.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492

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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

The best goal I ever saw was when a keeper kicked a ball the entire length of the pitch to score a goal. Apparently, this was some time ago and I do not remember who it was...

That header for Sweden was amazing, though. I watched it just now.

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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I have a vague memory of that, Sir K, although I didn't see it. It wasn't Peter Schmeikel was it?

I don't post here very often; an Ipswich supporter has bugger-all to shout about these days (especially not today as we got stuffed 6-1 [Waterworks] ).

For obvious reasons, I'm not usually over-thrilled when Norwich City win either, but when they beat Manchester f****** United that's a different matter altogether ...

[Yipee]

[ 18. November 2012, 01:59: Message edited by: piglet ]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Jonah the Whale

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# 1244

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I remember Pat Jennings scoring for Spurs from inside his own penalty area, but that was back in the early 70s I guess. Some wind assistance, a good bounce and there you go. It's extremely rare, but not unique.
quote:
That header for Sweden was amazing, though. I watched it just now.
Which header was that then?
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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Joe Hart. [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

The best goal I ever saw was when a keeper kicked a ball the entire length of the pitch to score a goal. Apparently, this was some time ago and I do not remember who it was...
Tim Howard did that for Everton last season against Bolton Wanderers.

Video here.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Big week for Europe's elite clubs as the Champions' League groups play their penultimate games. A few teams still have a lot of work to do.

Including Chelsea who need at least a draw away to Juventus to keep any realistic prospect of progress alive. I confess I am a bag of nerves.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Big night, and we comprehensively failed to turn up. Apart from Petr Cech who was immense for the whole game. Most disappointing.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492

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Spurs accomplished damn-all nothing today, in spite of having both Adebayor and Defoe. Would that we still had Modric! What were we thinking, letting him go? Our side just sleep-walked through the match which I recorded while I carefully avoided reading the English newspapers - I wonder what tomorrow's Grauniad will think of it....

God help us if we cannot score big in our next Premier League meeting. Should we try to lure Harry back?

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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Sir K,

Spurs have to thank Hugo Lloris and Lazio's profligate Kozak for their point in Rome. They defended badly, Sandro is desperately limited and alongside him, in effectively a two-man midfield, they had Tom Carroll, a promising 18 year old.

They are missing Parker more than Modric, or Van der Vaart for that matter. We've seen two London football managers go this week - any more?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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I think Villas Boas cares much more about the Europa League than the Spurs fans and the Spurs board do. That was the competition in which he made his name, winning it with Porto 2011, whereas most English fans see it as a bit of a waste of time.

So no - if anything will undo Villas Boas, it will be Premiership form. But I rather suspect that Spurs' board will be rather less trigger-happy than Chelsea's. I would be shocked if he didn't get the whole season.

But on the other sacking of this week, I'm completely unsurprised it happened. Not only is QPR's league position awful, their performances on the field are getting worse rather than better. If a managerial change is going to be made then doing it before January makes sense. And I'm sure they could do a lot worse than 'Arry.

As for Chelsea, I've done denial and anger, and am currently bargaining.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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Celtic 0 - Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1.

Now that's what I call a result. [Yipee]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Do you follow the Scottish national team at all piglet? Who'd be your pick for their new manager?

Edited to add - Assuming, of course, that they haven't appointed anyone while I wasn't looking. [Smile]

[ 24. November 2012, 22:52: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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I can't really say I follow them, IF - I read their results in the Daily Telegraph on t'interweb and I despair.

Having said that, I reckon Sir Alex Ferguson's wasted on Manchester ******* United ... [Devil]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
Celtic 0 - Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1.

Now that's what I call a result. [Yipee]

Back when both Inverness teams were in the Highland League one of them beat Celtic in a cup competition to provoke the headline:

"SuperCaleyarefantasticCelticareatrocious".

Along with "East Five four: Forfar Five", the best lines to come of football anywhere.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492

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A good result last weekend put us back in 7th place, by effectively swapping places with our opponents! Hope for the future, then...

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged



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