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Source: (consider it) Thread: The Football Thread 2013
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Looks like a few idiots in the Millwall end have given the journos the story they wanted. Shame, that.

But well done Wigan - looked a different class in the first half and deserving winners from what I saw of the game.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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Saw a Guardian article comment thread, and reports from Milwall supporters who were there was it was more then a few, and definitely not being overly reported.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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LeRoc

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# 3216

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Yes! After 3 consecutive victories, my team FC Groningen is now in 8th position! Only 4 more games to go, and if they stay within the first 9 they might go European. Hup Groningen!

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Og: Thread Killer
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# 3200

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In news down the other end, Barrow have been relegated to Conference North. [Waterworks]

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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pjl
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# 16929

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All Greater Manchester cup final

Man City v Wigan

Now to get a ticket

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Ad Orientem
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# 17574

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West Ham v. Man U 2-2. A blatantly offside goal. The linesman was a Man U fan?
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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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It wasn't the same guy that was running the line for Norwich v Arsenal last weekend, was it?

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Ad Orientem
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# 17574

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Lol! Maybe. [Smile]
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Sir Kevin
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# 3492

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We're in bloody oblivion! Why are penalties more important than points scored? My friend the rabid Arseholes fanatic will never let me hear the end of it!

At least the namesake side of under-11 Spurs won on the grammar school playing fields last week when I was coaching them!

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Why are penalties more important than points scored?

What do you mean?

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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ken
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# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Saw a Guardian article comment thread, and reports from Milwall supporters who were there was it was more then a few, and definitely not being overly reported.

I was there and it seemed very over-reported to me. Most fans not in the immediate area honestly hardly noticed the incident that was all over the telly. These things look a look bigger in close-up than they do from a hundred metres or more away.


[ 18. April 2013, 19:54: Message edited by: ken ]

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Starbug
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Very sad to hear that Hillsborough campaigner Anne Williams has died: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/18/hillsborough-campaigner-anne-williams-dies1

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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor

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Sir Kevin
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# 3492

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Why are penalties more important than points scored?

What do you mean?
The penalties assessed against us after a draw in the match earlier this month drove is down from 3rd to 5th. I feel it's not right! What is up with the half hour of stoppage time!?

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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quote:
Originally posted by Starbug:
Very sad to hear that Hillsborough campaigner Anne Williams has died: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/18/hillsborough-campaigner-anne-williams-dies1

Now *she* was an Iron Lady.

I remember a time when the fight for justice seemed unwinnable. Certain politicians, newspaper editors and football fans were united in blaming Liverpool fans. Successive governments fobbed us off, and told families of those who died to shut up.

She kept on battling. She lost many times, but she kept at it. She inspired the rest of the families, the survivors and other Liverpool (and enlightened other football fans) to keep at it.

I'm glad that she was alive to finally see The Truth recognised. She's with Kevin now. May she rest in peace and rise in glory.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Why are penalties more important than points scored?

What do you mean?
The penalties assessed against us after a draw in the match earlier this month drove is down from 3rd to 5th. I feel it's not right! What is up with the half hour of stoppage time!?
Ummm... That was a Europa league game, so it had nothing to do with your position in the Premiership. In the league, there is never extra time or penalties: a draw is a draw. However, extra time and penalties is the standard way of deciding a cup tie that's level at the end of normal time.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sir Kevin
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# 3492

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Must beat City! Rivals must lose!

[Paranoid]

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

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ken
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# 2460

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Most teams in the championshp have only got two games to go but there are still some that could either be relegated or promoted. Is this the most competitive league ever?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Og: Thread Killer
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# 3200

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TFC can't hold onto a lead.

ANOTHER goal scored against in extra time.

That makes about 20 in 6 and a bit seasons.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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LeRoc

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# 3216

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quote:
LeRoc: Yes! After 3 consecutive victories, my team FC Groningen is now in 8th position! Only 4 more games to go, and if they stay within the first 9 they might go European. Hup Groningen!
Another win! Still in 8th place, with 3 games to go. Some tough ones among them, though: Ajax at home, PSV and VVV away. Only the latter seems easy on paper (but we have been losing against weak teams before).

If we stay within the first 9, there will be play-offs for the 3rd round of the UEFA league. For this, it would be good to get at least some points in the final three games.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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LeRoc

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I'm sorry, it isn't third round UEFA League, but second round.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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So, Luis Suarez really is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't he?

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, Luis Suarez really is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't he?

I've just read that while Liverpool have fined him they intend to keep him on. What kind of "Gross misconduct" clause is there in his contract? He's a cheat with a record of violent conduct, a disgrace to the game and his club and while he remains at his club, Liverpool FC's reputation, damaged by previous episodes with Suarez, is tarnished too. Had any spectator bitten a player the plod would have thrown him in a cell then had him prosecuted without asking the victim.

I feel sorry for his manager. Ian Ayre (LFC's MD) says it's mostly up to Brendan Rodgers to "work with him on that side of character".

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Did anyone actually expect Liverpool to do the right thing? I certainly didn't.

Edited to add:
Although, amusingly, we had been singing "feed the Scousers..." just before he bit Ivanovic. We didn't mean it quite that literally, Branislav!

[ 22. April 2013, 12:30: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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L'organist
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# 17338

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Bring back Norman Hunter. [Devil]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Who never actually bit anyone.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Did anyone actually expect Liverpool to do the right thing? I certainly didn't.

Edited to add:
Although, amusingly, we had been singing "feed the Scousers..." just before he bit Ivanovic. We didn't mean it quite that literally, Branislav!

I have read that the South American football press are already reporting Suarez being "Hungry for goals".

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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L'organist
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# 17338

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... Spoilsport!

(And didn't Nobby Styles gum someone, once??)

Ah, happy days with noble players such as "chopper" Harris and the like. And who can forget the commitment to fair play of Billy Bremner and his merry Leeds-men..

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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quote:
Sioni Sais: I have read that the South American football press are already reporting Suarez being "Hungry for goals".
It's true. żHambre de gol? in an Argentinian newspaper.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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The mancs stood by Cantona, Chelsea stood by Rix, Everton bought Ferguson, Spurs stood by Defoe and Arsenal stood by Adams.

I can't remember talk of moral high grounds then, to be honest. Well, I do regarding that when Keane did that tackle on Haaland, but otherwise I can't remember anything.

Oh, and that Ivanovitch player is a right tasty player.

[ 22. April 2013, 16:40: Message edited by: Rosa Winkel ]

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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Cantona got a long suspension, didn't he? I can't remember how long, but it was 4 or 6 months. It's true they didn't sack him.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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Rosa, Suarez has more footballing ability than all of those, with the possible exception of Cantona. All the more shame he has to resort to cheating.

As for Liverpool standing by him and other clubs doing similar, Liverpool have cut Suarez a fair bit of slack already and he must be running out.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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That's for them to decide.

This focus on Suarez's "cheating" is a load of xenophobic shite as well. I don't see Bale getting such grief. Owen didn't. Shearer kicked someone in the head and threatened never to play for England again if he got punished and he didn't get as much grief.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like everything he does and found his action stupid yesterday (as well as the handball, though I was grateful for equaliser) , but this moral outrage simply inspires a *meh* in me. I've seen too many players from many clubs do all manner of diving, getting players yellow or red cards , being out to injure other players, bullying referees to join in.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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LeRoc

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# 3216

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quote:
Rosa Winkel: I've seen too many players from many clubs do all manner of diving
But you can't deny that Suarez dives a lot. I saw him a couple of times in the stadium when he was playing for Groningen, and even the home crowd was starting to get fed up with it.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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I agree that some of the comment is over-moralistic and pious. I see it as a practical issue - the FA has to deter certain things. Thus, Cantona got a hefty suspension, as you can't have players attacking fans. Similarly, fans who come on the pitch and attack players tend to be banned for life.

Biting someone is an act of violence - in the street, you might be arrested for this. So again, the FA has to be quite strict.

He certainly had a helluva game - one handball, one bite, and one goal. The man has an appetite!

(And I forgot, at least one exquisite pass).

[ 22. April 2013, 18:46: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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LeRoc, he's cut down on it.

Regarding the punishment, I guess he'll get more than Defoe did for his bite.

I wish more of our players had his passion for the game. No, no arsey comments, I mean, he was absolutely gutted after we went out to Zenith, he cares for the club. Apparently he was in tears at the Hillsborough service last week.

The FA will deter what they feel pressurised to deter. Kicks to the head or dangerous tackles (see Cech) receive less attention.

As does grounds without a safety certificate. No, I won't take moral lessons from the FA.

[ 22. April 2013, 19:18: Message edited by: Rosa Winkel ]

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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quote:
Rosa Winkel: he cares for the club.
That's what we thought, before he refused to train or play anymore because Ajax wanted to buy him.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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The FA's "independent" panel announces a ten game ban for Suarez.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Ricardus
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# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
As for Liverpool standing by him and other clubs doing similar, Liverpool have cut Suarez a fair bit of slack already and he must be running out.

Liverpool are in an awkward position, since the rumour mill says Suárez would consider leaving the club for a chance of Champions League football.

If he leaves Liverpool will want to get a good price for him, which is difficult if he's doing his best to present himself as an anthropophagous maniac. Liverpool therefore have to hope that on the one hand he makes himself so unattractive that rival clubs are dissuaded from swooping for him, while on the other hand offering him support and loyalty so that he's less tempted to jump ship.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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I don't think Luis Suarez did himself any favours suggesting that a three match ban would have been sufficient. That could have got the committee's backs up.

Having been banned for seven matches before, for a similar offence, I would have been surprised at any less than that, but a ban to the end of the season, with the remainder suspended, could have drawn a line under it, giving the player and the club a chance to start with a clean sheet in 2013-2014.

nb: the International Rugby Board recommends a 12 week minimum ban (with a four year maximum) for biting, although this can be reduced in extenuating circumstances, whatever that means.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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basso

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# 4228

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I think that's if he spits the bite back out.
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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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I think biting is worse in rugby (especially Union). Reason is that in football, any time someone bites it's going to be out in the open and everyone's going to see who did it. In rugby, if someone bites in a ruck it's quite plausible that no camera would pick it up and it's even possible the person who is bitten won't know who did the biting. In that sense, it's a worse crime because of the potential for inflicting real damage and getting away with it*. So I understand rugby having a harsh tariff for biting.

My main problem with the FA is that the process by which their "independent" panel arrives at the length of a ban seems completely arbitrary. It's probably impossible to come up with a systematic way of defining whether biting, a career-ending tackle, racist abuse, or a punch is a worse crime, but I think the FA have to sit down and come up with some way of codifying a scale into which these sorts of things can be fit. Because at the moment, it seems like they're just blowing in the wind of public opinion.

And the other thing they have to do is get rid of this ludicrous notion that they are undermining the match officials if they review anything that has been seen. Aguero's 'challenge' on David Luiz last week is on the most recent example of something that could not be acted on retrospectively because of this ridiculous rule, but there have been many other examples involving many other clubs.


* I would use the same logic for gauging, too, although that has never been an issue in football to the best of my knowledge.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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And now for something completely different ....

Newport County are just two decent results away from the Football League!

They won at Grimsby on Wednesday night, the second leg is at Newport on Sunday and if that goes to plan it's the playoff final at Wembley againts Wrexham or Kidderminster on Sunday 5th May.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Is that the Yakubu who scored? And now he's playing for Newport? Dear me!

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492

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I saw one of my best friends today, a fellow teacher. He is the rabid Arsenal fanatic I mentioned earlier. Dunno how his side skated by Chelsea, but we are united in our contempt for Man. U!

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Is that the Yakubu who scored? And now he's playing for Newport? Dear me!

Nooo. This Yak is his nephew. Tidy enough but not in the same class. Too good for most of the Conference though.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

My main problem with the FA is that the process by which their "independent" panel arrives at the length of a ban seems completely arbitrary. It's probably impossible to come up with a systematic way of defining whether biting, a career-ending tackle, racist abuse, or a punch is a worse crime, but I think the FA have to sit down and come up with some way of codifying a scale into which these sorts of things can be fit. Because at the moment, it seems like they're just blowing in the wind of public opinion.

I totally agree. That's what happened with Suarez last season.

I was thinking of that Fulham player who did that damage to Cech's head. I believe he got less than ten games. Ben Thatcher, whose victim had to receive oxygen on the side of the pitch got less as well.

Effectively they're saying that biting is worse than racism (if one takes the view that Suarez did say something racist last season) and deliberate attempts to injure someone (by which I mean Roy Keane, who originally only received three games, after the publication of his book another five). I note that not just here, but also elsewhere even people who don't like Liverpool are perplexed by the ban.

This may set a precedent that may cause all manner of bother for the FA.

The FA are a well dodgy organisation. This excellent article points out how the new Wembley was built in order that there wouldn't be shadows for games at 3pm, and then when the biggest game in the English/Welsh calender comes they decide to move the game to the evening.

It is this kind of stuff, by the way, that leads many fans (not just Liverpool fans) to be indifferent about or even hostile to the English national team. (See also how the FA campaigned for Rooney to receive a reduced ban. Like I mentioned about Hillsborough, I'm not taking moral lessons from the FA.)

The incompetence of the FA is much bigger than things happening to Liverpool. They're not interested in football fans in general, or the players.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
basso

Ship’s Crypt Keeper
# 4228

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
And now for something completely different ....

if that goes to plan it's the playoff final at Wembley againts Wrexham or Kidderminster on Sunday 5th May.

Newport v. Wrexham (at Wembley!) for a place in the League would be an interesting match.
Posts: 4358 | From: Bay Area, Calif | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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Brazil still didn't look in shape against Chile last night. Let's see if they do better in the Confederations Cup.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:

The incompetence of the FA is much bigger than things happening to Liverpool. They're not interested in football fans in general, or the players.

We've all become inured to the self-serving nature of the FA. Some of the reaction against Liverpool is borne of disappointment. The club sets high standards, usually visible from the other side of Stanley Park (where they haven't always been so evident) so what Luiz Suarez and LFC has done recently is more under the microscope.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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When we equalised I celebrated more out of duty than out of joy. I knew there'd be a shitstorm afterwards.

The consensus among Liverpool fans appears to be that, when we knew that the FA are extremely dodgy, Suarez should behave himself and not given them a chance to display their dodgilness.

Saying that, if one follows your logic than it means that we're treated firmer than, say, the bad mancs, Man City and Fulham.

Relations between us, by the way, appear to be improving, following Kenwright's excellent speech at the Hillsborough memorial service.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged



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